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Re: Early polling results to date

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  • kafkaexmachina
    Sorry to necro the thread, but I just got done reading the story (damn good, by the way, keep up the good work), thought I d stop by. Dunno if you ve ever read
    Message 1 of 13 , Aug 2, 2008
      Sorry to necro the thread, but I just got done reading the story (damn
      good, by the way, keep up the good work), thought I'd stop by. Dunno
      if you've ever read any of my stuff, but I tend to be somewhat, uh,
      unique.

      So, you want to consider a H/Hr/LL ship, but you don't want to fall
      into the 'sweaty-man-breath-heavy' issue of male-wish-fulfillment?
      You've got a resource here: I actually *know* people in
      poly-relationships.

      So, how does it work? Well, for one thing, it's not a bloody 'harem'.
      The thrust of a properly working 3-way relationship is anything but
      sex, rather its friendship, companionship and shared love (like a
      normal relationship, only with even more buggered up dynamics). A lot
      of people can't do it. Some can. Harry? Hell, he's so buggered up
      long-term that frankly having two people to love/care for/get jealous
      over is pretty believable. Hell, if you follow canon, he already does.

      Next, Luna. So long as you avoid poo!Luna of Rorsch's invention, she's
      actually the 'easiest' female to merge into the three-way. Simply use
      the same logic as Harry.

      Surprisingly? Works for Hermione as well. Lets face it, Harry Potter
      isn't NGE, but it sure is chock full of emotional cripples with
      massive isolation and self-esteem problems. Frankly, if the
      friendships develop and deepen, the easiest way to handle a
      'three-way' is the most realistic. They get drunk and 'do stuff.' Do
      stuff doesn't mean boinking, just a small bit of heavy kissing (which
      happens AAALLL the time w/booze). Now, Luna keeps up her 'life is
      life' attitude, which prevents the knee-jerk Harry angst. Harry then
      (this is why it shouldn't happen until he's gotten over things a bit)
      shrugs and goes along. After all, it was nice.

      Hermione, on the other hand, will quickly rationalize herself either
      into, or out of the relationship depending on your decision. The group
      dynamic won't change, and if you keep the relationship virginal
      (nothing more than third base) it won't be that much of an issue.

      Long term? It's easiest if Luna/Hermione are at least a little
      bisexual (90% of humanity seems to be - if you don't believe me, go to
      prison :P ) or it will be H/Hr + H/LL. I've seen that work as well;
      however, it's a harder dynamic to maintain. The specific experience I
      know of is a man, his wife, and his wife's wife. He's straight, she's
      bi, her wife is a lesbian. They have issues, lord do they have issues,
      but they've been together for over thirty years now, so...

      >You have to wonder one thing though. Males tend to fantasize about
      seeing two women
      > together. Does that mean that women fantasize the same about men?
      > I dearly hope not... *shiver*

      Yes Yes and unequivocally YES! Where in the world do you think the
      term fan-girl came into play with H/SS and H/Draco? Men like
      girl-on-girl, and girls like boy-on-boy. Do you know where the term
      'slash' came from? Same reason why Shatner HATED Star Trek fans.
      Evidently, some women wrote Kirk/Spock (Kirk slash Spock) stories
      during the time the series was on, and they became so bloody (in an
      underground way) popular that the relationship slash became synonymous
      with pairing two male characters sexually in fan-fiction.

      Another bit of proof? Stop by Books-A-Million and look at the Manga
      section. Especially the 'shrink-wrapped' section. Guess what? Almost
      no yuri (girl on girl) and probably an entire shelf-worth of yaoi
      (boy-on-boy).

      My girlfriend probably has over 100 of 'em. Worse, she leaves them in
      the bathroom... bloody time-bombs.

      >
      > Cheerz,
      > Sven
      >
      > Ps: My posts always tend to be broken off in multiple lines which
      make them look like
      > crap. Is that because I post on a mac or something? Seems a bit hard
      to believe :o
      >

      It's Yahoo, I think. Using the web version like I am?

      -KafkaExMachina
    • Brian
      Hey Kafka, Welcome aboard, and thanks for the post. No worries about the necro, this isn t DLP after all. :) I was glad to read your comments about the
      Message 2 of 13 , Aug 2, 2008
        Hey Kafka,

        Welcome aboard, and thanks for the post. No worries about the necro,
        this isn't DLP after all. :)

        I was glad to read your comments about the polyamory, as that was
        pretty much how I saw things developing anyway. I'm not planning to
        write any lemon, so though i can easily imagine some three-way
        sleeping, I don't think we'll be seeing any actual threesomes. Any
        errr.. 'extended' scenes that could be written down the track I
        might leave to others that could do them justice.

        I like the 'yay/poo!Luna' stories; Larceny was a lot of fun, and
        there have been others in a similar vein. I'm not really aiming at a
        comedy or parody (like Lovegood, Boobs Gooder) so I'm trying to
        write what I imagine canon!Luna to be.

        From the bits I've gleaned, we know she's frequently distracted by
        mythical(?) creatures, can get coldly serious when protecting loved
        ones (eg, her dad from Hermione's Quibbler slurs), can be devoted to
        her friends (her bedroom ceiling), and is far more serious (when she
        needs to be) than most stories give her credit for. Eg, fighting at
        the DoM, her attitude at Malfoy Manor and at the Hogwarts battle,
        etc.

        Whether or not the critters she keeps talking about are real or not
        is always the mystery isn't it? She managed to identify Harry at
        Bill & Fleur's wedding, so she is at the very least, more observant
        than most.

        Hermione, up until book 6 at least (which in my story hasn't
        happened yet), has always been loyal to Harry. Unlike Ron, who spent
        some time ignoring him up until the end of the first task.

        Luna doesn't seem to have any experience with friends, and Hermione
        generally only with Harry & Ron, with shades of Ginny. We know
        Hermione helped Ginny to get over her crush at least.

        Harry, as we know is awkward and clueless. His fixation on Cho was
        fairly obvious; he's obsessed with flying and quidditch, and she was
        a pretty seeker. Having fixed on her first, I think he simply got
        tunnel vision until she rejected him at Hogsmeade.

        So where does all that leave us? I think Luna is probably going to
        be the one to bring Harry around and train him. She'll probably be
        the one to bring Hermione around when the time comes as well.

        Cheers,

        Brian
      • kafkaexmachina
        --snipped due to 100% agreement ... My one disagreement/suggestion. -Actually, I think keeping or dropping the idea Luna is probably going to be the one to
        Message 3 of 13 , Aug 2, 2008
          --snipped due to 100% agreement

          > So where does all that leave us? I think Luna is probably going to
          > be the one to bring Harry around and train him. She'll probably be
          > the one to bring Hermione around when the time comes as well.

          My one disagreement/suggestion.
          -Actually, I think keeping or dropping the idea "Luna is probably
          going to be the one to bring Harry around AND TRAIN HIM." (quoted and
          bolded for emphasis) is probably the difference between 'Man, that was
          a really good story' and '...my god...that was ...Epic'.

          Luna's managed a moment of sweet, and in some ways still naive
          brilliance in how she handles Harry simply because she's a open and
          affection person without being demanding.

          She holds onto Harry because she needs touch when hurting, so he does
          as well. I think it's realistic that it worked because frankly nobody
          ever tried to just hold Harry without expectations. Hermione had the
          chance... but she's a fundamentally bossy and demanding female. Kind
          of like Molly, really. It is, sadly, one reason why I see Harry/Ginny
          working (even though cannon Ginny is nothing but a pale paper cut-out,
          even compared to Luna).

          Mind you, this is coming from an author who's had the quote "Saying
          Kafka is Harmonious is like saying Hitler kind of disliked the Jews"
          said about him.

          So, I think it would be in the story's best interest if there's no
          'training' involved (except the little things, like not leaving
          underwear with skid-marks out, putting the toilet seat down, buying
          chocolate and forgiving homicidally psychotic lunacy for one week
          outta the month, etc). Why can I see H/Hr/LL developing as an honestly
          functional poly relationship? Because there's no training, no forcing,
          no expectations or demands, simply three people who care about each other.

          The strength of Luna's character isn't just in her ability to look at
          the world in a different manner, it's in her ability to just do/say
          what she thinks needs to be done/said without fear.

          Which opens an amusing dichotomy. Hermione is smarter/more academic
          than the Ravenclaw, and Luna is far braver (in her own way) than any
          other cannon character.

          In conclusion, I am of the opinion that Hermione is the kind of person
          who would 'plot and train' a relationship, while Luna will simply
          intuit the whole affair into existance, with Harry doing pretty much
          the same thing. If you go H/Hr/LL, there's a possibility for
          (needless) angst or better yet humor when Hermione figures out she's
          in as deep as Harry and Luna... and there's really no need for
          planning or training.

          I think her head will explode, at least a little.

          Mind you, having a rationalist involved with a eccentric intuit and a
          reactive intuit will help keep the both of them alive.

          And childless. Well, at least for a while.

          Now, there's a nice little rambling post. Feel free to ask for
          clarification, etc.

          -KafkaExMachina (Who, by the way, is slowly leaning towards H/LL as an
          acceptable alternative to H/Hr... so long as Ron ships AK).


          > Cheers,
          >
          > Brian
          >
        • Brian
          Hey Kafka, Errr, maybe train was a poor choice of words.. :) What I meant was, she s the one primarily getting Harry used to accepting affection by doing
          Message 4 of 13 , Aug 2, 2008
            Hey Kafka,

            Errr, maybe 'train' was a poor choice of words.. :)

            What I meant was, she's the one primarily getting Harry used to
            accepting affection by doing pretty much what she's been doing so
            far, the hand holding, hugs & cuddles. That's the kinda training I
            had in mind. I'm sure Harry's used to putting the seat down not only
            for himself, but Dudders as well.

            Hermione's used to greeting/parting hugs, but she's more used to
            sticking to more... shall we say, established norms of social
            behaviour? I don't see her holding Harry's hand or just sitting and
            cuddling him (while awake anyway) unless she was his girlfriend.
            Left to their own devices, it'd take a miracle to get Harry &
            Hermione together.

            Anyway, as for Hermione, I agree with her dad. I don't know whether
            she's even decided that she wants Harry 'that way' yet. She seems to
            be happy to encourage Luna's suit, who she realises is good for him,
            just as she tried to help Ginny.

            Maybe once things do start happening between Harry & Luna she'll
            work it out.

            As for Ron/AK.. I'm tempted... I'm not a big fan of Ron at the best
            of times, but I do have something else in mind, and I doubt it'll
            surprise anyone.

            To be honest, I'm trying hard to keep things reasonably realistic.
            In canon, Ron is lazy, opinionated, and quick to temper. But he's
            also loyal (when not suffering from his jealousy).

            I'm going to see if I can try to avoid the cliche's that abound,
            especially those surrounding Ron, for as long as I can. All the
            typos are caused by crossed fingers.

            Cheers,

            Brian
          • kafkaexmachina
            ... True. No problems there. ;) ... On that... the established norms of social behavior allow two girls to be physically affectionate in ways that two men, or
            Message 5 of 13 , Aug 2, 2008
              --- In Thoughts_of_Pudding@yahoogroups.com, "Brian" <bjdibbins@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hey Kafka,
              >
              > Errr, maybe 'train' was a poor choice of words.. :)
              >
              > What I meant was, she's the one primarily getting Harry used to
              > accepting affection by doing pretty much what she's been doing so
              > far, the hand holding, hugs & cuddles. That's the kinda training I
              > had in mind. I'm sure Harry's used to putting the seat down not only
              > for himself, but Dudders as well.
              >

              True. No problems there. ;)

              > Hermione's used to greeting/parting hugs, but she's more used to
              > sticking to more... shall we say, established norms of social
              > behaviour? I don't see her holding Harry's hand or just sitting and
              > cuddling him (while awake anyway) unless she was his girlfriend.
              > Left to their own devices, it'd take a miracle to get Harry &
              > Hermione together.

              On that... the established norms of social behavior allow two girls to
              be physically affectionate in ways that two men, or a man and a woman
              outside of a relationship cannot. Here is where you have Luna's
              innocent nature allow for Hermione's 'training' as well.

              After all, it's not like Harry will get jealous, aroused (any more
              than being within 100 miles of a living female would cause - he is
              15/16) or in any way even really notice when Luna starts latching onto
              (in her delightfully friendly way) Hermione.

              Best part is - you can include this even if you don't intend for the
              story to go poly.

              >
              > Anyway, as for Hermione, I agree with her dad. I don't know whether
              > she's even decided that she wants Harry 'that way' yet. She seems to
              > be happy to encourage Luna's suit, who she realises is good for him,
              > just as she tried to help Ginny.

              Well, yes, but I also think that due to the intensity of her issues,
              Hermione is a blithering idiot with bottom-of-the-barrel taste in men.
              Again, it's best left that Hermione never really realizes she wants
              Harry 'that way' until she figures out she's actually with him.

              It does happen. Heck, my girlfriend and I didn't figure out we were a
              couple until about four months after we started dating. Everybody else
              had us pegged in about six weeks. :P

              >
              > Maybe once things do start happening between Harry & Luna she'll
              > work it out.
              >
              > As for Ron/AK.. I'm tempted... I'm not a big fan of Ron at the best
              > of times, but I do have something else in mind, and I doubt it'll
              > surprise anyone.

              Personally? I think he's a worthless character - and a painful lesson
              in why men must cast aside childish things when they are no longer
              children. I'm with cloneserpents on this one... the HP series would
              have been MUCH better if Ron'd fallen through the Veil instead of Sirius.

              Frankly, I don't think you'd get that many complaints if you just had
              Ron fall into a plot-hole and vanish from the list of main characters.
              Forgetting he exists is a bit unique. And probably refreshing.

              =)


              >
              > To be honest, I'm trying hard to keep things reasonably realistic.
              > In canon, Ron is lazy, opinionated, and quick to temper. But he's
              > also loyal (when not suffering from his jealousy).

              ... he's loyal every other book or so. Mostly. Fuck... lets face it,
              Ron's living proof that a woman wrote the Harry Potter series. Guys
              DON'T accept that kinda betrayal, even in their teenage years. Girls,
              unfortunately, learn to accept it as part of their earliest
              socialization. IMHO? He broke Man Law (tm). Punishment? Exile.
              >
              > I'm going to see if I can try to avoid the cliche's that abound,
              > especially those surrounding Ron, for as long as I can. All the
              > typos are caused by crossed fingers.

              You're doing a good job so far. I still stand behind my idea of 'Ron?
              Who? Oh yeah. Well, sometime when they get back I'll have him talk
              about quidditch and play chess. Or something. Small and irrelevant.'
              >
              > Cheers,
              >
              > Brian
              >

              Kudos,

              KafkaExMachina
            • Treck
              Awww Does that mean you won t bond him to aragog? Treck
              Message 6 of 13 , Aug 2, 2008
                Awww Does that mean you won't bond him to aragog?

                Treck

                On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 10:50 PM, Brian <bjdibbins@...> wrote:

                As for Ron/AK.. I'm tempted... I'm not a big fan of Ron at the best
                of times, but I do have something else in mind, and I doubt it'll
                surprise anyone.

                To be honest, I'm trying hard to keep things reasonably realistic.
                In canon, Ron is lazy, opinionated, and quick to temper. But he's
                also loyal (when not suffering from his jealousy).

                I'm going to see if I can try to avoid the cliche's that abound,
                especially those surrounding Ron, for as long as I can. All the
                typos are caused by crossed fingers.

                Cheers,

                Brian


              • Brian
                Hey Kafka, Couldn t agree more with you about Ron if I typed it myself. Agree on the breaking Man Law (tm), but we know what Harry s take on it is. He ll stick
                Message 7 of 13 , Aug 2, 2008
                  Hey Kafka,

                  Couldn't agree more with you about Ron if I typed it myself.

                  Agree on the breaking Man Law (tm), but we know what Harry's take on
                  it is. He'll stick by him until Ron does something wrong, and when
                  Ron starts giving him the cold shoulder he'll ignore him back. So
                  all we need to do is stop Harry from forgiving him if/when Ron
                  starts trying to be a buddy again.

                  Sorry for the delay in replying.. I was errr. thinking a litle too
                  much about Luna 'training' Hermione. (Just kidding, was reading the
                  latest chapter of 'A Last Resort'.)

                  Anyway, maybe I better get back to working on chapter 11.

                  Cheers,

                  Brian
                • yunainesedai
                  Hello, I snipped everything since letting it in would be a bit over the top :p. Thanks for the insight kafka, even if I would have rather not known about the
                  Message 8 of 13 , Aug 3, 2008
                    Hello,

                    I snipped everything since letting it in would be a bit over the top :p.

                    Thanks for the insight kafka, even if I would have rather not known about the M/M issue,
                    it does explain why so many slash is on FFN these days. The front page nearly always
                    covers 60+% of slash and I was wondering if so many men were homosexual these days.

                    I'm surprised that so many multi/harem stories always have tons of smut in them, perhaps
                    it's the male fantasy that gets away and they just start throwing women around. Not only
                    that, but most of the multiships tend to make every woman in the group "the same female"
                    (not sure about how to say this), because they all act/react nearly the same way. There is
                    no distinction in personality but merely some different looks and, dare I say it, someone
                    different looking for Harry to give a quick meaningless shag.
                    Not only that, but they nearly always suddenly accept each other. I'm currently trying to
                    write a shot one shot which features more than 3 woman and I'm trying to work out how in
                    the hell they are supposed to work together with all the different personalities...

                    Based on your explanation of trust / dedication / ..., it's funny to look at fanfiction where
                    Harry mostly suddenly finds the love of his life in one chapter and they get together like
                    "they were friends forever" the next. It's one of the reasons I currently love reading
                    "Thoughts of Pudding", it's not rushed and the relationship-building is going slowly while
                    the story progresses.

                    I have to say that I nearly fell of my chair when reading cloneserpents' opinion about Ron.
                    I also have to say that I completely agree. Have you taken a look at the Azkaban/Betrayal
                    fanfictions these days? Most of them suddenly let Harry forgive everyone because
                    otherwise he might become bad...hell, I hate some people in my life but I don't go around
                    doing "evil" things. Perhaps reading fanfiction is evil though... :P
                    I find it hilarious how dedicated Harry is (forgave Ron's betrayal twice (goblet/DH-leaving),
                    forgave the entire schools betrayal (second year, fourth year, ...) etc etc) to everyone...
                    when the sorting hat didn't even consider Hufflepuff for Harry. Did I misread the qualities
                    of the Houses or didn't Hufflepuff stand for dedication/friendship/... that sort of thing? In
                    that case, Harry would be the ultimate Hufflepuff, courage be damned.
                    I was starting to think that I was a vicious male because I hate seeing those "oh you're all
                    forgiven" type of fan fictions, but since it's apparently a male-thing then I'm safe :P.


                    A way to get rid of Ron?
                    Let Harry and Hermione tell him about the three-way relationship H/Hr/L. Then have Ron,
                    in all his stupidity and after thinking it over for a day, come to the realization that "oh cool
                    so it's an -open- relationship" and have him try to kiss Hermione or Luna because it's "fine
                    anyway". It would show his stupidity and ignorance in one go, and I highly doubt anyone
                    of the threesome would forgive him for coming to that conclusion since it would paint
                    them all as common slags/whores...

                    Thanks for the info and I hope I'm not interfering with your group Brian :P
                    Cheers,
                    Sven aka Yunaine
                  • Brian
                    Hi Sven, ... I d call it contributing... but if it makes you feel better, please keep interfering .. :D Cheers, Brian. PS. Thanks for the positive feedback.
                    Message 9 of 13 , Aug 3, 2008
                      Hi Sven,

                      > I hope I'm not interfering with your group Brian :P

                      I'd call it contributing... but if it makes you feel better, please
                      keep 'interfering'.. :D

                      Cheers,

                      Brian.

                      PS. Thanks for the positive feedback.
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