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Re: IN GROUND DAKOTA FIRE HOLE ROCKET STOVE HEATS EARTH AS THERMAL MASS

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  • Marshall E
    THERE IS A GUY WHO DID JUST THAT HE LINED A LARGE BOX WITH FOIL PUT A LAYER OF INSULATING MATERIAL IN THE BOTTOM THEN BUILT THE STOVE. HE THEN PUT A LOOP OF
    Message 1 of 11 , Feb 1, 2011
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      THERE IS A GUY WHO DID JUST THAT HE LINED A LARGE BOX WITH FOIL PUT A LAYER OF INSULATING MATERIAL IN THE BOTTOM THEN BUILT THE STOVE. HE THEN PUT A LOOP OF SMOKE PIPE IN THE BOX AND FILLED IT WITH SAND AND RUBBLE MAKING THE BIO- MASS. JUST SEARCH YOU TUBE FOR ROCKET STOVE BIO MASS HEATERS. YOU CAN SEE THE BUILDING OF THIS STOVE THERE

      --- In The_Yurt_Community@yahoogroups.com, "ben_azo" <ben_azo@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Jerry ,
      > thermal mass + thermal mass stove ; just 2 more search terms
      > cause thermal mass is what's absent in most yurts,
      > SOOO all we need to do....is build some (portable CAN be done:-)
      >
      > Thanks for keeping us warm , night & day.
      > Modern revolutionary thinking....by who?? WE the people
      >
      > Revolutionary Old Ben
      > dont forget to have a look at the Revolutionary Walking Protest Yurt!!
      >
      >
      > --- In The_Yurt_Community@yahoogroups.com, jerry diamond <dmnds2001@> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > HI GUYS,
      > >
      > > Thanks for all the great ideas, and search terms; 
      > > Roman Hypocaust, Chinese Kang, or Korean Ondol.!!!
      > >
      > > I thought I would add another thought to Ken's question.
      > >
      > > BTW: I got  TOSQITOYDNA.  Was this the other? TINSTAASQ
      > >
      > > "Ok, I am going to ask a really stupid question here.  Are you saying if you
      > >
      > > use this system, the smoke goes down and out?????"
      > >
      > >
      > > The one we made, and posted the pics of was about a foot underground. I would go even deeper, and you could fit the pipe very tight; perhaps wrap it, or put a vapor barrier (not insulation) just under ground surface. Very good point, Ken.  stupid question?
      > > Is CO and CO2 heavier or lighter than air?
      > > Really, as long as a stove is burning and drafting, it should be fine...but...detectors would be advisable.
      > > iN A PERMANENT INSTALLATION, YOU COULD COB THE TRENCH, LIKE A ROCKET STOVE. THAT WOULD DOUBLE SEAL IT ALSO.
      > >
      > >    Really, I was looking at ways to keep people from freezing to death in extremely bad conditions; homeless, refugees, etc so that is already a life and death situation.
      > >     If done with the vapor barrier and insulationunderneath, and if deep enough, there should be enough thermal mass to burn it up to evening, go to sleep, and be warm, then resart the fire for cooking breakfast .
      > >
      > >
      > > jerry
      > >
      > >
      > > Re: [The_Yurt_Community] Re: Heating a Yurt - George's idea
      > >
      > >
      > > I
      > > have been looking at all the posts about heating with wood under the
      > > yurt my only fear would be the "silent death" .  IF CO1 or CO2 got into
      > > the yurt due to a crack in a pipe somewhere, someone would not be waking
      > > up.
      > >
      > > Also in history, Romans and many other did use this in their
      > > bath houses, but NOT in their homes.  So most would never noticed the
      > > gas of the "silent death" around them.
      > >
      > > Something to remember, if you are going to use history, learn from it's mistakes.
      > >
      > > ken
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Re: Heating a Yurt - George's idea
      > >
      > >
      > > Ken , I think what you mention is correct and important.
      > >
      > > If I am not mistaken , the Chinese don't keep the stove burning
      > >
      > > during the night ; the bed's volume gives off the warmth ,
      > >
      > > accumulated during the day , very slowly during the night ,
      > >
      > > the stove is fired again when they wake up.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > I posted some pics (the url is on top of the screen-dump)in the
      > >
      > > "DAKOTA FIRE HOLE ROCKET STOVE" Photo-Album
      > >
      > > for all to see how the technique is used today in the US.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > I never tried or used it , but it looks interesting.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Old Ben
      > >
      > >
      > > 3a.
      > >
      > >
      > > Re: Heating a Yurt - George's idea
      > >
      > > Posted by: "doryjunk"
      > > doryjunk@
      > >  
      > >
      > > doryjunk
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:11 am (PST)
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > For evidence that some nomadic groups actually used a smiliar method to heat yurts see my message #4668.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In The_Yurt_Community@ yahoogroups. com, "George" <georgeberz@ ...> wrote:
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > The Kang bed system appears to be a fire on the surface of the clay or raised bed of brick
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > The Roman version I was talking about
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > http://www.vroma. org/~bmcmanus/ baths.html
      > >
      > > > Heating System: Roman engineers devised an ingenious system of
      > > heating the baths, the hypocaust. The floor was raised off the ground by
      > > pillars and spaces were left inside the walls so that hot air from the
      > > furnace (praefurnium) could circulate through these open areas. Rooms
      > > requiring the most heat were placed closest to the furnace, whose heat
      > > could be increased by adding more wood. Click here to see the skeleton
      > > of a dog found in the hypocaust of a bath in Germany; it had apparently
      > > crawled beneath the floor seeking warmth and been asphyxiated by the
      > > fumes.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > In specifically using concrete block to simulate the raised floor
      > > and provide area for the fire to warm the insides and provide air ducts to move the heat along.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > George
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Back to top
      > >
      > > Reply to sender
      > > |
      > >
      > > Reply to group
      > > |
      > >
      > > Reply via web post
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Messages in this topic
      > > (8)
      > >
      > > 4a.
      > >
      > >
      > > Re: IN GROUND DAKOTA FIRE HOLE ROCKET STOVE HEATS EARTH AS THERMAL M
      > >
      > > Posted by: "ben_azo"
      > > ben_azo@
      > >  
      > >
      > > ben_azo
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:36 am (PST)
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Hi Doryjunk ,
      > >
      > > Thank you so much for that excellent Link I posted in Links:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > HISTORICAL YURT INFO PORTAL
      > >
      > > THANKS Doryjunk for the great Link
      > >
      > > http://www.arch. mcgill.ca/ prof/schoenauer/ arch528/lect02/ n02.htm
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Sure worth saving for all.
      > >
      > > Should we open a special photofile ?
      > >
      > > I have the pics how not only the floor ,
      > >
      > > but also beds and benches are build today
      > >
      > > in the US and in many other parts of the world.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > How is the Dory ? I just love them :-)
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Old Ben
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In The_Yurt_Community@ yahoogroups. com, "doryjunk" <doryjunk@ .> wrote:
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > I thought the group might find this interesting since it relates to underground fires heating a yurt. Google
      > > up the late Norbert Schoenauer, Architectural historian at McGill
      > > University. Look for "Notes on Lecture 2." Scroll down to image #8
      > > which shows a fire pit outside of a yurt. A tunnel carries the exhausts
      > > gases under the yurt floor to heat the earth floor. Having given up
      > > their heat energy to the ground, the gases exit on the side opposite the
      > > firepit with an elevated stack providing the draft. The yurt is like a
      > > huge insulated basket inverted over a disk of warmed earth. You might
      > > also investigate the Roman Hypocaust, Chinese Kang, or Korean Ondol.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > --- In The_Yurt_Community@ yahoogroups. com, Kenneth <whitephoenix_ 69@> wrote:
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > > > Ok, I am going to ask a really stupid question here.  Are you
      > > saying if you use this system, the smoke goes down and out?????
      > >
      > > > >  
      > >
      > > > > ken
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > > > --- On Fri, 10/15/10, jerry diamond <dmnds2001@> wrote:
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > > > From: jerry diamond <dmnds2001@>
      > >
      > > > > Subject: [The_Yurt_Community ] IN GROUND DAKOTA FIRE HOLE ROCKET STOVE HEATS EARTH AS THERMAL MASS
      > >
      > > > > To: The_Yurt_Community@ yahoogroups. com, "sustainable CEDAR" <sustainablecedarcom o@googlegroups. com>, Preparing-But- Not-Afraid@ yahoogroups. com, Prepared_Christians _Unite@yahoogrou ps.com
      > >
      > > > > Date: Friday, October 15, 2010, 4:38 AM
      > >  
      > > IN GROUND DAKOTA FIRE HOLE ROCKET STOVE HEATS EARTH AS THERMAL MASS
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > > > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/The_ Yurt_Community/ photos/album/ 860169978/ pic/list
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > -- In The_Yurt_Community@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth <whitephoenix_69@> wrote:
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > > > Ok, I am going to ask a really stupid question here.  Are you saying if you
      > >
      > > use this system, the smoke goes down and out?????
      > >
      > > > >  
      > >
      > > > > ken
      > >
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > > > On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 1:45 PM, George <georgeberz@ > wrote:
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > > > > Hey the Romans had bath houses heated by making a fire under one side then
      > >
      > > > > > tunnels underneath the floor that heated up and eventually a smoke stack on
      > >
      > > > > > the other end to draw the smoke out.
      > >
      > > > > >
      > >
      > > > > > I wonder if you could lay concrete block sideways and make a floor that
      > >
      > > > > > takes a fire from one side and draws the heat throughout then escapes the
      > >
      > > > > > chimney... over the concrete blocks cover with a a few inches of sand then
      > >
      > > > > > concrete pavers as your actual floor. It would seem to have allot of thermal
      > >
      > > > > > mass and once heated up might radiate heat for hours?
      > >
      > > > > >
      > >
      > > > > > Kinda primitive radiant floor heating!
      > >
      > > > > >
      > >
      > > > > > You would be able to extract nearly all the btu's of the fire...
      > >
      > > > > >
      > >
      > > > > > Have a battery powered smoke detector and carbon monoxide detector as well.
      > >
      > > > > >
      > >
      > > > > > George
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In The_Yurt_Community@ yahoogroups. com, mike moller <mike.moller@ > wrote:
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > > > This all sounds like the Kang bed-stove that has been used for centuries in
      > >
      > > > > Northern China to keep families warm through the winter - google up 'Kang
      > >
      > > > > bed-stove' and you'll find plenty of stuff that may help
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > > > cheers
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > > > Mike Moller
      > >
      > > > > Lallybroch Alpacas
      > >
      > > > > New Zealand
      > >
      > > > > www.lallybroch. co.nz
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > > > --- On Fri, 10/15/10, jerry diamond <dmnds2001@> wrote:
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > > > From: jerry diamond <dmnds2001@>
      > >
      > > > > Subject: [The_Yurt_Community] IN GROUND DAKOTA FIRE HOLE ROCKET STOVE HEATS
      > >
      > > EARTH AS THERMAL MASS
      > >
      > > > > To: The_Yurt_Community@yahoogroups.com, "sustainable CEDAR"
      > >
      > > <sustainablecedarcomo@...>,
      > >
      > > Preparing-But-Not-Afraid@yahoogroups.com,
      > >
      > > Prepared_Christians_Unite@yahoogroups.com
      > >
      > > > > Date: Friday, October 15, 2010, 4:38 AM
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > > > IN GROUND DAKOTA FIRE HOLE ROCKET STOVE HEATS EARTH AS THERMAL MASS
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The_Yurt_Community/photos/album/860169978/pic/list
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      >
    • jerryd
      I could not find that link; do you have it? I had been designing that; Improvised thermal mass; even if spread over decking, rather than on the ground, it
      Message 2 of 11 , Feb 2, 2011
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        I could not find that link; do you have it? I had been designing that; Improvised thermal mass; even if spread over decking, rather than on the ground, it would work, and various frame systems would work, metal tubing, even wood, then 2" by 4" wire with chicken wire inside of that, with stovepipe curled through it, then filled with sand dirt, rock, etc. Or Cob the whole thing just like a Rocket Stove.
        As in a masonry heater, the hard thing is to get transfer of heat from smooth stove pipe to the thermal mass; round pipe is the "worst". Solution is turbulence; hence the loop you speak of. Tees instead of Elbows in a place or two, depending on size, would create more turbulence and provide clean-outs as well.

        jerry



        --- In The_Yurt_Community@yahoogroups.com, "Marshall E" <mep9668291@...> wrote:
        >
        > THERE IS A GUY WHO DID JUST THAT HE LINED A LARGE BOX WITH FOIL PUT A LAYER OF INSULATING MATERIAL IN THE BOTTOM THEN BUILT THE STOVE. HE THEN PUT A LOOP OF SMOKE PIPE IN THE BOX AND FILLED IT WITH SAND AND RUBBLE MAKING THE BIO- MASS. JUST SEARCH YOU TUBE FOR ROCKET STOVE BIO MASS HEATERS. YOU CAN SEE THE BUILDING OF THIS STOVE THERE
        >
        > --- In The_Yurt_Community@yahoogroups.com, "ben_azo" <ben_azo@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi Jerry ,
        > > thermal mass + thermal mass stove ; just 2 more search terms
        > > cause thermal mass is what's absent in most yurts,
        > > SOOO all we need to do....is build some (portable CAN be done:-)
        > >
        > > Thanks for keeping us warm , night & day.
        > > Modern revolutionary thinking....by who?? WE the people
        > >
        > > Revolutionary Old Ben
        > > don't forget to have a look at the Revolutionary Walking Protest Yurt!!
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