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please could someone offer some advise on a twisting yurt.

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  • jonah.freeland
    hi, i have recently erected my yurt (for the 3rd time after the roof collapsed) but it is still twisiting - see pictures.
    Message 1 of 18 , Jan 2, 2010
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      hi,

      i have recently erected my yurt (for the 3rd time after the roof collapsed) but it is still twisiting - see pictures.

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The_Yurt_Community/photos/album/1720822483/pic/407990991/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc

      can any one suggest a remedy to this problem?

      btw, the second rope is not currently taking weight, i was just using it to see if i could fix the problem.

      thank you,

      jonah
    • Chris Fuhr
      Please send photos of the center ring especially of interest is how loose are the poles to the center rings sockets? Another possible cause is the sockets are
      Message 2 of 18 , Jan 2, 2010
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        Please send photos of the center ring especially of interest is how loose are the poles to the center rings sockets? 
        Another possible cause is the sockets are too shallow allowing the center ring to turn.


        From: jonah.freeland <jonah.freeland@...>
        To: The_Yurt_Community@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sat, January 2, 2010 6:22:17 AM
        Subject: [The_Yurt_Community] please could someone offer some advise on a twisting yurt.

         

        hi,

        i have recently erected my yurt (for the 3rd time after the roof collapsed) but it is still twisiting - see pictures.

        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/The_ Yurt_Community/ photos/album/ 1720822483/ pic/407990991/ view?picmode= &mode=tn& order=ordinal& start=1&count= 20&dir=asc

        can any one suggest a remedy to this problem?

        btw, the second rope is not currently taking weight, i was just using it to see if i could fix the problem.

        thank you,

        jonah


      • Todd Messler
        Things that come to mind are; 1. Bracing from ring to lattice 2. Angle blocks at ring to prevent lateral movement of rafters 3. Angle blocks at perimeter to
        Message 3 of 18 , Jan 2, 2010
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          Things that come to mind are;
          1. Bracing from ring to lattice
          2. Angle blocks at ring to prevent lateral movement of rafters
          3. Angle blocks at perimeter to prevent lateral movement of rafters
          4. Center poles from floor to ring perimeter - two or more - to prevent ring movement
          5. Add more to the rafters so rafter material, external to the insertion points in the ring
          6. Create a secondary 'Halo' ring about two feet in diameter larger, that is rigidly attached to the first, central ring
          7. Cross braces in the center of the ring tied back to the rafters to prevent lateral movement
          8. The best approach - take it all down and make sure every component fits more precisely in every measure. It looks like it needs to be tighter since the structure is finding its own static point. If you could be sure it wouldn't get worse under a load, it would be OK but the situation means it will torque more under load and probably collapse. 
        • Chris Fuhr
          Also there is low dome syndrome. It took a while for me to find out what that meant. Simply stated if the angle of the roof is low enough a bounce a flexing
          Message 4 of 18 , Jan 2, 2010
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            Also there is low dome syndrome.  It took a while for me to find out what that meant.  Simply stated if the angle of the roof is low enough a bounce a flexing if you will can cause it to find a new point of rest.  And that is as a cup and not a dome.  The sharper the angle of the roof and the more resistant the structure is to flexing the less likely low dome is to become low cup.

            I'd look at which is cheaper or serves your needs more a larger radius center circle would put a higher  angle on the existing rafters or you might have longer material for rafters just laying around?

            I like the halo idea just remeber that the halo will be passing thru at an angle.  If you build it flat then the rafters are going to be trying to do all there bending after the halo.  A: That equals stress. B: It takes longer rafters to get from start to finish.


            From: Todd Messler <drtoddm@...>
            To: The_Yurt_Community@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sat, January 2, 2010 7:22:27 AM
            Subject: Re: [The_Yurt_Community] please could someone offer some advise on a twisting yurt.

             

            Things that come to mind are;
            1. Bracing from ring to lattice
            2. Angle blocks at ring to prevent lateral movement of rafters
            3. Angle blocks at perimeter to prevent lateral movement of rafters
            4. Center poles from floor to ring perimeter - two or more - to prevent ring movement
            5. Add more to the rafters so rafter material, external to the insertion points in the ring
            6. Create a secondary 'Halo' ring about two feet in diameter larger, that is rigidly attached to the first, central ring
            7. Cross braces in the center of the ring tied back to the rafters to prevent lateral movement
            8. The best approach - take it all down and make sure every component fits more precisely in every measure. It looks like it needs to be tighter since the structure is finding its own static point. If you could be sure it wouldn't get worse under a load, it would be OK but the situation means it will torque more under load and probably collapse. 


          • Chris Fuhr
            The first problem that I see is you only used one connector and they are above the main pieces of the center circle. Ask yourself: What happens if just one
            Message 5 of 18 , Jan 2, 2010
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              The first problem that I see is you only used one connector and they are above the main pieces of the center circle. 
              Ask yourself:  What happens if just one connection fails? 
              This is a classic example of where you must either have execlent construction techeques or build in redundancy.  On the gaps between boards had you lap joined them they would have been twice as strong.  By butt joining they are weak and at best you can do is wedge and elemers wood glue them.  Followed up with adding another connector to the bottom.  If the edges arn't working because you have nails  then start over.  Rent or barrow a router or lap join via table saw.  wooden pin in areas where you might have to drill a socket and bolt the rest.  Get yourself some clamps and use Gorilla glue if you have a tight fit, elemers wood glue if it's not a tight fit.  O and they don't like each other so don't think you can jump from one to the other on the same location. 

              Cross brace with rope as suggested in another post.  Great idea to who ever suggested it.  Froit would probably say some Mongolian a century ago etc...  Your sockets are too shallow and your polls would need to be rapped or wedged to get good angle.  Your outer walls are too far out and giving you too shallow an angle with the rafters you have.

              Buckminster fuller showed that a nail can be pulled out by as little as 4 pounds of pressure and leverage.  Add wet wood, time, and vibration and wall la.


              From: jonah.freeland <jonah.freeland@...>
              To: The_Yurt_Community@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sat, January 2, 2010 7:22:53 AM
              Subject: [The_Yurt_Community] Re: please could someone offer some advise on a twisting yurt.

               

              Thank you for your quick response.

              I have uploaded more detailed photos to the album.

              I do not understand what you mean by "how loose are the poles to the center rings sockets"

              If you mean are they a tight fit, then the answer is that they vary, all the sockets are the same size but there are slight variations in the diameter of the roof poles. Most are quite tight but a few are loose.

              I have already re drilled the sockets to make them deeper. What sort of depth do you recommend? i think they are currently about 5cm deep.
              some of the sockets could be made a little deeper, however, the ones at the corners of the centre ring are restricted by the metal pins used to join the pieces of wood together.

              What do you think about using a rope wound around each roof strut as detailed in the bottom left picture?

              http://books. google.co. uk/books? id=JmmFuyKamlYC& lpg=PT48& dq=yurt%20twisti ng&client= firefox-a& pg=PT42#v= onepage&q= a%20third% 20thin%20belt& f=false

              Thanks again,

              Jonah

              --- In The_Yurt_Community@ yahoogroups. com, Chris Fuhr <instructorhasgoned igital@.. .> wrote:
              >
              > Please send photos of the center ring especially of interest is how loose are the poles to the center rings sockets?
              > Another possible cause is the sockets are too shallow allowing the center ring to turn.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ____________ _________ _________ __
              > From: jonah.freeland <jonah.freeland@ ...>
              > To: The_Yurt_Community@ yahoogroups. com
              > Sent: Sat, January 2, 2010 6:22:17 AM
              > Subject: [The_Yurt_Community ] please could someone offer some advise on a twisting yurt.
              >
              >
              > hi,
              >
              > i have recently erected my yurt (for the 3rd time after the roof collapsed) but it is still twisiting - see pictures.
              >
              > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/The_ Yurt_Community/ photos/album/ 1720822483/ pic/407990991/ view?picmode= &mode=tn& order=ordinal& start=1&count= 20&dir=asc
              >
              > can any one suggest a remedy to this problem?
              >
              > btw, the second rope is not currently taking weight, i was just using it to see if i could fix the problem.
              >
              > thank you,
              >
              > jonah
              >


            • Kenneth
              Is it me or does it look like the center ring has a bend in it?   ken ... From: Chris Fuhr Subject: Re:
              Message 6 of 18 , Jan 2, 2010
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                Is it me or does it look like the center ring has a bend in it?  

                ken

                --- On Sat, 1/2/10, Chris Fuhr <instructorhasgonedigital@...> wrote:

                From: Chris Fuhr <instructorhasgonedigital@...>
                Subject: Re: [The_Yurt_Community] please could someone offer some advise on a twisting yurt.
                To: The_Yurt_Community@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Saturday, January 2, 2010, 9:30 AM

                 

                Please send photos of the center ring especially of interest is how loose are the poles to the center rings sockets? 
                Another possible cause is the sockets are too shallow allowing the center ring to turn.


                From: jonah.freeland <jonah.freeland@ gmail.com>
                To: The_Yurt_Community@ yahoogroups. com
                Sent: Sat, January 2, 2010 6:22:17 AM
                Subject: [The_Yurt_Community ] please could someone offer some advise on a twisting yurt.

                 

                hi,

                i have recently erected my yurt (for the 3rd time after the roof collapsed) but it is still twisiting - see pictures.

                http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/The_ Yurt_Community/ photos/album/ 1720822483/ pic/407990991/ view?picmode= &mode=tn& order=ordinal& start=1&count= 20&dir=asc

                can any one suggest a remedy to this problem?

                btw, the second rope is not currently taking weight, i was just using it to see if i could fix the problem.

                thank you,

                jonah



              • Kenneth
                Ok got to see some better photos of the ring.. It is very very hard to get even pressure from the ring at the best of times. You have used an octagon type
                Message 7 of 18 , Jan 2, 2010
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                  Ok got to see some better photos of the ring.. It is very very hard to get "even" pressure from the ring at the best of times. You have used an octagon type design, getting the pressure even will be next to impossible with this design.

                  I tried it once about 15 years, ago after 6 months, I pitched the ring, made a new circle one and had no problems.

                  ken

                  --- In The_Yurt_Community@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth <whitephoenix_69@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Is it me or does it look like the center ring has a bend in it?  
                  >
                  > ken
                  >
                  > --- On Sat, 1/2/10, Chris Fuhr <instructorhasgonedigital@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > From: Chris Fuhr <instructorhasgonedigital@...>
                  > Subject: Re: [The_Yurt_Community] please could someone offer some advise on a twisting yurt.
                  > To: The_Yurt_Community@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Saturday, January 2, 2010, 9:30 AM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                  >  
                  >
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                  >
                  > Please send photos of the center ring especially of interest is how loose are the poles to the center rings sockets? 
                  > Another possible cause is the sockets are too shallow allowing the center ring to turn.
                  >
                  > From: jonah.freeland <jonah.freeland@ gmail.com>
                  > To: The_Yurt_Community@ yahoogroups. com
                  > Sent: Sat, January 2, 2010 6:22:17 AM
                  > Subject: [The_Yurt_Community ] please could someone offer some advise on a twisting yurt.
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                  >  
                  >
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                  > hi,
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > i have recently erected my yurt (for the 3rd time after the roof collapsed) but it is still twisiting - see pictures.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/The_ Yurt_Community/ photos/album/ 1720822483/ pic/407990991/ view?picmode= &mode=tn& order=ordinal& start=1&count= 20&dir=asc
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > can any one suggest a remedy to this problem?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > btw, the second rope is not currently taking weight, i was just using it to see if i could fix the problem.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > thank you,
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > jonah
                  >
                • jonah.freeland
                  Thank you all for the solutions, I will try and put some of them in action tomorrow.
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jan 2, 2010
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                    Thank you all for the solutions,

                    I will try and put some of them in action tomorrow.

                    --- In The_Yurt_Community@yahoogroups.com, Chris Fuhr <instructorhasgonedigital@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Also there is low dome syndrome. It took a while for me to find out what that meant. Simply stated if the angle of the roof is low enough a bounce a flexing if you will can cause it to find a new point of rest. And that is as a cup and not a dome. The sharper the angle of the roof and the more resistant the structure is to flexing the less likely low dome is to become low cup.
                    >
                    > I'd look at which is cheaper or serves your needs more a larger radius center circle would put a higher angle on the existing rafters or you might have longer material for rafters just laying around?
                    >
                    > I like the halo idea just remeber that the halo will be passing thru at an angle. If you build it flat then the rafters are going to be trying to do all there bending after the halo. A: That equals stress. B: It takes longer rafters to get from start to finish.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: Todd Messler <drtoddm@...>
                    > To: The_Yurt_Community@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Sat, January 2, 2010 7:22:27 AM
                    > Subject: Re: [The_Yurt_Community] please could someone offer some advise on a twisting yurt.
                    >
                    >
                    > Things that come to mind are;
                    > 1. Bracing from ring to lattice
                    > 2. Angle blocks at ring to prevent lateral movement of rafters
                    > 3. Angle blocks at perimeter to prevent lateral movement of rafters
                    > 4. Center poles from floor to ring perimeter - two or more - to prevent ring movement
                    > 5. Add more to the rafters so rafter material, external to the insertion points in the ring
                    > 6. Create a secondary 'Halo' ring about two feet in diameter larger, that is rigidly attached to the first, central ring
                    > 7. Cross braces in the center of the ring tied back to the rafters to prevent lateral movement
                    > 8. The best approach - take it all down and make sure every component fits more precisely in every measure. It looks like it needs to be tighter since the structure is finding its own static point. If you could be sure it wouldn't get worse under a load, it would be OK but the situation means it will torque more under load and probably collapse.
                    >
                  • woulf
                    Hi there, I m not that experienced with yurts, but I think I know where your problem is coming from. Yurts with round rings always have the rafters directly
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jan 3, 2010
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                      Hi there, I'm not that experienced with yurts, but I think I know where your problem is coming from. 

                      Yurts with round rings always have the rafters directly perpendicular to the part of the ring they are attached to.  The ones I seen with straight sections have rafters at several angles to the straight section, angles that oppose each other, like this:   ___           yours seem to be, from the pictures, like
                                                                                                /  |  \
                      this:  ___          That way, there is nothing to "push back" evening out the force, so it only pushes one
                              |  \  \
                      way, making it twist. 

                      Basically, if you were to add up all the angles the rafters make to the straight sections of the ring, they would have to add up to 90 degrees in order to evenly distribute force downwards instead of sideways. 

                      I hope I explained that right, I am not an architect or a big yurt designer, just a tinkerer who sometimes "sees" what is wrong with stuff and likes yurts.  I hope this helps. 
                      ---Julia

                      From: jonah.freeland <jonah.freeland@...>
                      To: The_Yurt_Community@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Sat, January 2, 2010 6:22:17 AM
                      Subject: [The_Yurt_Community] please could someone offer some advise on a twisting yurt.

                       

                      hi,

                      i have recently erected my yurt (for the 3rd time after the roof collapsed) but it is still twisiting - see pictures.

                      http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/The_ Yurt_Community/ photos/album/ 1720822483/ pic/407990991/ view?picmode= &mode=tn& order=ordinal& start=1&count= 20&dir=asc

                      can any one suggest a remedy to this problem?

                      btw, the second rope is not currently taking weight, i was just using it to see if i could fix the problem.

                      thank you,

                      jonah


                    • Chris Fuhr
                      Your basic assumptions are all correct. That said the problem is that even getting the forces balanced at rest is not the same as the forces with any shift and
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jan 3, 2010
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                        Your basic assumptions are all correct.
                        That said the problem is that even getting the forces balanced at rest is not the same as the forces with any shift and these are wind, rain, snow etc...  For your suggestion to work any balanced force between two or more roof struts would have to have another balanced force applied to it too remain in balance.  Balance is also that the roof shifts with the wind into a new resting position. 

                        A simpler answer is a round center circle and move on to dealing with forces that come and go like wind, snow on one side of the yurt etc...

                        Yurts in Mongolia are still being made by people with hand tools.  It is easier to build an octagon with a draw knife than a circle yet people there don't skip the critical parts.  We on the other hand have things like bandsaws, routers, even angle grinders with wood bits and want to skip some steps?  If you don't have these tools, can't barrow them, rent them, if neither of those options are available sub contract the work to someone who dose have the tools and skills (that's what shepherds have been doing for about a thousand years) see about taking wood working classes at some school and do it as your personal project point is there are options.

                        The only experiment I'd like to see out of this is take an Octogon center, take the rafter polls and add a rope about half way down it's length tie each end to furthest out portion on the Octogon.  That would give each of at least 4 poles the maxium width base connecting to the center circle.  Those 4 braced poles should reduce the twist effect.  Things to watch out for are if those 4 poles behave differently than the other normal poles.  Including making the yurt disproportionally square etc...  I don't think it would be better, just different.



                        From: woulf <emeraldlonewoulf@...>
                        To: The_Yurt_Community@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sun, January 3, 2010 1:08:44 PM
                        Subject: Re: [The_Yurt_Community] please could someone offer some advise on a twisting yurt.

                         

                        Hi there, I'm not that experienced with yurts, but I think I know where your problem is coming from. 

                        Yurts with round rings always have the rafters directly perpendicular to the part of the ring they are attached to.  The ones I seen with straight sections have rafters at several angles to the straight section, angles that oppose each other, like this:   ___           yours seem to be, from the pictures, like
                                                                                                  /  |  \
                        this:  ___          That way, there is nothing to "push back" evening out the force, so it only pushes one
                                |  \  \
                        way, making it twist. 

                        Basically, if you were to add up all the angles the rafters make to the straight sections of the ring, they would have to add up to 90 degrees in order to evenly distribute force downwards instead of sideways. 

                        I hope I explained that right, I am not an architect or a big yurt designer, just a tinkerer who sometimes "sees" what is wrong with stuff and likes yurts.  I hope this helps. 
                        ---Julia

                        From: jonah.freeland <jonah.freeland@ gmail.com>
                        To: The_Yurt_Community@ yahoogroups. com
                        Sent: Sat, January 2, 2010 6:22:17 AM
                        Subject: [The_Yurt_Community ] please could someone offer some advise on a twisting yurt.

                         

                        hi,

                        i have recently erected my yurt (for the 3rd time after the roof collapsed) but it is still twisiting - see pictures.

                        http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/The_ Yurt_Community/ photos/album/ 1720822483/ pic/407990991/ view?picmode= &mode=tn& order=ordinal& start=1&count= 20&dir=asc

                        can any one suggest a remedy to this problem?

                        btw, the second rope is not currently taking weight, i was just using it to see if i could fix the problem.

                        thank you,

                        jonah



                      • ben_azo
                        Hi Jonah ,long time.... your construction is living proof , designing and building a yurt is not that simple :-) I see one way to salvage what you have done
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jan 3, 2010
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                          Hi Jonah ,long time....
                          your construction is living proof , designing and building
                          a yurt is not that simple :-)
                          I see one way to salvage what you have done allready.

                          How ? By simply giving your yurt a high peaked Kyrgyz yurt profile.
                          How ? Trow the tono in the bin or keep it as a souvenir.
                          Connect the roofpoles with bended thin bamboo , doubled
                          like you did on the frame directly to the roofpole on
                          the opposing side of the wall.
                          Simply like it's done with modern dometents
                          connect the center with some good scouting knots.
                          You now have a dome-yurt , nothing much portable
                          but so is the rest of the structure.

                          That way you will have build a nice garden structure
                          a nice pretty profile , stronger than you think.
                          a symbolic circel tono may ad some strength.

                          Sure a nice instructable on what to do and not :-)
                          You must have learned some things by now.
                          Building a fine lite travelyurt will only take another week-end.

                          Voila , just some thougths from Belgium.
                          Old Ben

                          --- In The_Yurt_Community@yahoogroups.com, "jonah.freeland" <jonah.freeland@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > hi,
                          >
                          > i have recently erected my yurt (for the 3rd time after the roof collapsed) but it is still twisiting - see pictures.
                          >
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The_Yurt_Community/photos/album/1720822483/pic/407990991/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
                          >
                          > can any one suggest a remedy to this problem?
                          >
                          > btw, the second rope is not currently taking weight, i was just using it to see if i could fix the problem.
                          >
                          > thank you,
                          >
                          > jonah
                          >
                        • Kenneth
                          LOL everyone we are like the football announcers right now.  We are all saying the same thing but in a different way. YOU need a ROUND ring.   ken ... From:
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jan 4, 2010
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                            LOL everyone we are like the football announcers right now.  We are all saying the same thing but in a different way.

                            YOU need a ROUND ring.  

                            ken

                            --- On Sun, 1/3/10, woulf <emeraldlonewoulf@...> wrote:

                            From: woulf <emeraldlonewoulf@...>
                            Subject: Re: [The_Yurt_Community] please could someone offer some advise on a twisting yurt.
                            To: The_Yurt_Community@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 4:08 PM

                             

                            Hi there, I'm not that experienced with yurts, but I think I know where your problem is coming from. 

                            Yurts with round rings always have the rafters directly perpendicular to the part of the ring they are attached to.  The ones I seen with straight sections have rafters at several angles to the straight section, angles that oppose each other, like this:   ___           yours seem to be, from the pictures, like
                                                                                                      /  |  \
                            this:  ___          That way, there is nothing to "push back" evening out the force, so it only pushes one
                                    |  \  \
                            way, making it twist. 

                            Basically, if you were to add up all the angles the rafters make to the straight sections of the ring, they would have to add up to 90 degrees in order to evenly distribute force downwards instead of sideways. 

                            I hope I explained that right, I am not an architect or a big yurt designer, just a tinkerer who sometimes "sees" what is wrong with stuff and likes yurts.  I hope this helps. 
                            ---Julia

                            From: jonah.freeland <jonah.freeland@ gmail.com>
                            To: The_Yurt_Community@ yahoogroups. com
                            Sent: Sat, January 2, 2010 6:22:17 AM
                            Subject: [The_Yurt_Community ] please could someone offer some advise on a twisting yurt.

                             

                            hi,

                            i have recently erected my yurt (for the 3rd time after the roof collapsed) but it is still twisiting - see pictures.

                            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/The_ Yurt_Community/ photos/album/ 1720822483/ pic/407990991/ view?picmode= &mode=tn& order=ordinal& start=1&count= 20&dir=asc

                            can any one suggest a remedy to this problem?

                            btw, the second rope is not currently taking weight, i was just using it to see if i could fix the problem.

                            thank you,

                            jonah



                          • neworleansflyer
                            Just some things I noticed in the photos. Lots of good thoughts already posted. Is the khana level? I can t tell for sure by the photos. It looks like the
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jan 4, 2010
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                              Just some things I noticed in the photos.
                              Lots of good thoughts already posted.
                              Is the khana level? I can't tell for sure by the photos.
                              It looks like the "dragon post is leaning, not sure why, but when I installed my tono, I attached the temporary post for the tono to a ladder to make it stable. I notice a ladder in the picture so you may try this. I put up my roof poles by myself using this method, after failing with 3 other people "helping"!
                              After centering the tono inside the khana, "shrink" the khana a bit. So if your plan was for a 16' yurt, shrink the khana to a 14' diameter. Now, your roof poles don't have so far to reach thus avoiding the necessity of making a new bigger tono.
                              Get your door frame installed before you attempt to put in the roof poles. I think the khana may be flexing at the open hole where the door frame should be. You are trying to make the walls as rigid as possible so tghe weight is evenly distributed.
                              If the holes in the tono are bigger than the roof poles, get some wedges and wedge them in so the tips of the roof poles can't move. Wrap the roof pole tips with bicycle tube strips, not the best but it might help.
                              Also, your tension rope around the tops of the khana may be flexing. I can't tell by the picture. Check that.
                              I'm probably the least knowledgable of the people here, but sometimes an untrained eye sees what a skilled eye doesn't.
                              Good Luck!


                              --- In The_Yurt_Community@yahoogroups.com, "jonah.freeland" <jonah.freeland@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > hi,
                              >
                              > i have recently erected my yurt (for the 3rd time after the roof collapsed) but it is still twisiting - see pictures.
                              >
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The_Yurt_Community/photos/album/1720822483/pic/407990991/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
                              >
                              > can any one suggest a remedy to this problem?
                              >
                              > btw, the second rope is not currently taking weight, i was just using it to see if i could fix the problem.
                              >
                              > thank you,
                              >
                              > jonah
                              >
                            • Todd Messler
                              If not a round ring, I say an Octagonal Yurt is a definite way to go! :-)
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jan 6, 2010
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                                If not a round ring, I say an Octagonal Yurt is a definite way to go! :-)
                              • Kenneth
                                oct, means 8, even that won t work. He has shown he can make a 8sided ring, just cut the outside to a circle. IF not that a 16 sided would be the nearest to a
                                Message 15 of 18 , Jan 7, 2010
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                                  oct, means 8, even that won't work. He has shown he can make a 8sided ring, just cut the outside to a circle.

                                  IF not that a 16 sided would be the nearest to a circle one could get.

                                  ken

                                  --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Todd Messler <drtoddm@...> wrote:

                                  From: Todd Messler <drtoddm@...>
                                  Subject: Re: [The_Yurt_Community] please could someone offer some advise on a twisting yurt.
                                  To: The_Yurt_Community@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 7:58 PM

                                   

                                  If not a round ring, I say an Octagonal Yurt is a definite way to go! :-)


                                • Chris Fuhr
                                  Even if he made another Octo center circle out of the same type wood and bolted it to the first ring but at an off set by about 20 degrees and attached half
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Jan 7, 2010
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                                    Even if he made another Octo center circle out of the same type wood and bolted it to the first ring but at an off set by about 20 degrees and attached half the poles to the upper and half to the lower parts of the center circle that would do better. 
                                    Warning: It would cause enough stresses that bolts must be used to firmly attach the upper to the lower layers of the center circle.

                                    I'd start over and shoot for a round.


                                    From: Kenneth <whitephoenix_69@...>
                                    To: The_Yurt_Community@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Thu, January 7, 2010 7:38:03 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [The_Yurt_Community] please could someone offer some advise on a twisting yurt.

                                     

                                    oct, means 8, even that won't work. He has shown he can make a 8sided ring, just cut the outside to a circle.

                                    IF not that a 16 sided would be the nearest to a circle one could get.

                                    ken

                                    --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Todd Messler <drtoddm@yahoo. com> wrote:

                                    From: Todd Messler <drtoddm@yahoo. com>
                                    Subject: Re: [The_Yurt_Community ] please could someone offer some advise on a twisting yurt.
                                    To: The_Yurt_Community@ yahoogroups. com
                                    Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 7:58 PM

                                     

                                    If not a round ring, I say an Octagonal Yurt is a definite way to go! :-)



                                  • jonah.freeland
                                    hi everyone, it has been a while. i have been at uni for the past few months but i am back home now. over easter i started work on a round ring, and over the
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Jul 1, 2010
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                                      hi everyone,

                                      it has been a while. i have been at uni for the past few months but i am back home now. over easter i started work on a round ring, and over the past few days i have finished it and today i erected the roof.

                                      i used the traditional method on simplydifferent http://www.simplydifferently.org/Yurt_Notes?page=2#Wheel%20/%20Toono

                                      i will put up some pictures if it is still standing tomorrow.

                                      thank you all very much for your help.

                                      in conclusion, i agree with ken; "YOU need a ROUND ring".

                                      i have some more questions but i will start a new thread.

                                      thanks again, the yurt community is amazing.

                                      --- In The_Yurt_Community@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth <whitephoenix_69@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > LOL everyone we are like the football announcers right now.  We are all saying the same thing but in a different way.
                                      > YOU need a ROUND ring.  
                                      > ken
                                      >
                                      > --- On Sun, 1/3/10, woulf <emeraldlonewoulf@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > From: woulf <emeraldlonewoulf@...>
                                      > Subject: Re: [The_Yurt_Community] please could someone offer some advise on a twisting yurt.
                                      > To: The_Yurt_Community@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 4:08 PM
                                      >
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                                      >
                                      > Hi there, I'm not that experienced with yurts, but I think I know where your problem is coming from. 
                                      > Yurts with round rings always have the rafters directly perpendicular to the part of the ring they are attached to.  The ones I seen with straight sections have rafters at several angles to the straight section, angles that oppose each other, like this:   ___           yours seem to be, from the pictures, like                                                                          /  |  \this:  ___          That way, there is nothing to "push back"
                                      > evening out the force, so it only pushes one        |  \  \way, making it twist. 
                                      > Basically, if you were to add up all the angles the rafters make to the straight sections of the ring, they would have to add up to 90 degrees in order to evenly distribute force downwards instead of sideways. 
                                      > I hope I explained that right, I am not an architect or a big yurt designer, just a tinkerer who sometimes "sees" what is wrong with stuff and likes yurts.  I hope this helps. ---JuliaFrom: jonah.freeland
                                      > <jonah.freeland@ gmail.com>
                                      > To: The_Yurt_Community@ yahoogroups. com
                                      > Sent: Sat, January 2, 2010 6:22:17 AM
                                      > Subject: [The_Yurt_Community ] please could someone offer some advise on a twisting yurt.
                                      >
                                      >
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                                      >
                                      >
                                      > hi,
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > i have recently erected my yurt (for the 3rd time after the roof collapsed) but it is still twisiting - see pictures.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/The_ Yurt_Community/ photos/album/ 1720822483/ pic/407990991/ view?picmode= &mode=tn& order=ordinal& start=1&count= 20&dir=asc
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > can any one suggest a remedy to this problem?
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > btw, the second rope is not currently taking weight, i was just using it to see if i could fix the problem.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > thank you,
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > jonah
                                      >
                                    • daniel
                                      Hi all my first post here i have just finished my first yurt, which i intend to live in long term, and have done it with an octagonal tono, split annd shaped
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Sep 23 5:09 PM
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                                        Hi all my first post here i have just finished my first yurt, which i intend to live in long term, and have done it with an octagonal tono, split annd shaped from logs, 2 octagons sitting on one another with square spacers between to hold square end roof poles, and i have found that it works fine, although i have not got the weight of the canvas on it yet. Was a wee bit worried when i came across these messages with all this talk of round tonos, but i am pretty confident my octagon is holding the roof poles pretty steady. All you have to do really is have a gradation of how far each of the poles goes into or through the tono, i.e. the roof poles which conect with the corners of the octagon go further into it, and those in the middle of the straight sides, less so, this combined with your correct angle between poles as if putting them into a circular tono should work
                                        --- In The_Yurt_Community@yahoogroups.com, Chris Fuhr <instructorhasgonedigital@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Even if he made another Octo center circle out of the same type wood and bolted it to the first ring but at an off set by about 20 degrees and attached half the poles to the upper and half to the lower parts of the center circle that would do better.
                                        > Warning: It would cause enough stresses that bolts must be used to firmly attach the upper to the lower layers of the center circle.
                                        >
                                        > I'd start over and shoot for a round.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ________________________________
                                        > From: Kenneth <whitephoenix_69@...>
                                        > To: The_Yurt_Community@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Sent: Thu, January 7, 2010 7:38:03 AM
                                        > Subject: Re: [The_Yurt_Community] please could someone offer some advise on a twisting yurt.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > oct, means 8, even that won't work. He has shown he can make a 8sided ring, just cut the outside to a circle.
                                        >
                                        > IF not that a 16 sided would be the nearest to a circle one could get.
                                        >
                                        > ken
                                        >
                                        > --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Todd Messler <drtoddm@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > >From: Todd Messler <drtoddm@yahoo. com>
                                        > >Subject: Re: [The_Yurt_Community ] please could someone offer some advise on a twisting yurt.
                                        > >To: The_Yurt_Community@ yahoogroups. com
                                        > >Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 7:58 PM
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >>
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                                        > >If not a round ring, I say an Octagonal Yurt is a definite way to go! :-)
                                        >
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