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Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle

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  • Gilbert Ventura
    Carlo,     I have no problem with Exodus 31, don t manipulate the issue, the issue is, you have NOT proven that the weekly cycle of the present calendar
    Message 1 of 22 , Aug 1, 2009
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      Carlo,
          I have no problem with Exodus 31, don't manipulate the issue, the issue is, you have NOT proven that the weekly cycle of the present calendar weekly cycle is also the weekly cycle of Exodus 31.

      Bro.Gilberto

      --- On Fri, 7/31/09, BYT YHWH <bytyhwh@...> wrote:

      From: BYT YHWH <bytyhwh@...>
      Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle
      To: TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Friday, 31 July, 2009, 1:33 PM

       

      Gilberto,

      just read what YHWH (Yahweh), NOT Constantine, NOT me, said:

      EXODUS 31:12-18 -
       12 And YHWH (Yahweh) spoke to Mosheh (Moses), saying,
       13 Speak you also to the Children of Yisrael (Israel), saying, Verily My Sabbaths you shall keep: for it is a Sign between Me and you throughout your Generations; that you may know that I am YHWH (Yahweh) that does sanctify you.
       14 You shall keep the Sabbath therefore; for it is Set Apart (Holy) to you: every one that defiles it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
       15 Six Days may work be done; but in the Seventh is the Sabbath of Rest, Set Apart (Holy) to YHWH (Yahweh): whosoever does any work in the Sabbath Day, he shall surely be put to death.
       16 Wherefore the Children of Yisrael (Israel) shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their Generations, for a Perpetual Covenant.
       17 It is a Sign between Me and the Children of Yisrael (Israel) for ever: for in Six Days YHWH (Yahweh) made Heaven and Earth, and on the Seventh Day He rested, and was refreshed.
       18 And He gave to Mosheh (Moses), when He had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, Two Tables of Testimony, Tables of Stone, written with the Finger of The Mighty One.

      That is the Word of YHWH (Yahweh), HIS Law (Torah), and HIS Prophecy throughout ALL the Generations of the Children of Yisrael (Israel), for a Perpetual Covenant, FOR EVER!

      That is NOT mere assumption / speculation / presumption, as you ERRONEOUSLY claim that my Beliefs would be founded!

      History Proves that the Children of Yisrael (Israel) have kept The Sabbath on The Seventh Day, on the SAME Day commonly called "Saturday" in modern English, at least from the Time of YHWSU (Yahshua), Who kept the SAME Day as The Sabbath, going, as His custom was, to their Synagogue on the Sabbath Day.

      LUKE 4:15-16 -
       15 And He taught in their Synagogues, being glorified of all.
       16 And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up: and, as His custom was, He went into the Synagogue on the Sabbath Day, and stood up for to read.

      May YHWH (Yahweh) Open your mind, heart, eyes, and ears to Understand It!

      In The Name of YHWSU (Yahshua), The TRUE MashiYah (MessiYah),

      Carlo Tognoni

      BYT YHWH
      www.byt-yhwh. org

      ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========






      From: Gilbert Ventura <gilven55@yahoo. com>
      To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
      Cc: gilven55@yahoo. com
      Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:30:03 PM
      Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle

       

      Carlo,
           You have not proven to everyone that the present calendar and its weekly cycle was the same weekly cycle of ancient Israel. I REMEMBER, you merely presume that its the same without citing proof.In other words, your beliefs is founded on mere assumption/speculat ion.

      Gilberto

      --- On Wed, 7/29/09, BYT YHWH <bytyhwh@yahoo. com> wrote:

      From: BYT YHWH <bytyhwh@yahoo. com>
      Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle
      To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
      Date: Wednesday, 29 July, 2009, 3:49 PM

       

      Gilberto,

      I remind you that YHWH (Yahweh), NOT Constantine, NOT me, Commanded a Weekly Cycle, saying to us to Work the First Six Days, and to Rest the Seventh Day, to be Set Apart to HIM as The Sabbath (EXODUS 20:8-11).

      With the SCRIPTURAL Belief and Practice that I am following, there is a case in which a Feast Day, an Annual SABBATH, is SET and Commanded to be Kept on the New Moon, that can fall on the Seventh Day Sabbath.

      That is the SET Feast of Trumpets (or Day of Shoutings), that YHWH (Yahweh), NOT Constantine, NOT me, Commanded to be SET and Kept on the First Day (the New Moon) of the Seventh Month!

      LEVITICUS 23:23-25 -
       23 And YHWH (Yahweh) spoke to Mosheh (Moses), saying,
       24 Speak to the Children of Yisrael (Israel), saying, In the Seventh Month, in the First Day of the Month, shall you have a SABBATH, a Memorial of Blowing of Trumpets (Shoutings), a Set Apart (Holy) Convocation.
       25 You shall do no servile work therein: but you shall offer an offering made by fire to YHWH (Yahweh).

      Would you call CONFUSION, something that YHWH (Yahweh) has SET and Commanded us to Keep???

      May YHWH (Yahweh) Open your mind, heart, eyes, and ears to Understand It!

      In The Name of YHWSU (Yahshua), The TRUE MashiYah (MessiYah),

      Carlo Tognoni

      BYT YHWH
      www.byt-yhwh. org

      ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ===





      From: Gilbert Ventura <gilven55@yahoo. com>
      To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
      Cc: gilven55@yahoo. com
      Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:04:49 PM
      Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle

       

      Carlo,
            With your belief/practice of Constantine weekly cycle, a Feast or a Holyday and New Moon and your Saturday-Sabbath may FALL ON THE SAME DAY/DATE...you don't call this confusion?

      Bro..Gilberto

      --- On Tue, 7/28/09, BYT YHWH <bytyhwh@yahoo. com> wrote:

      From: BYT YHWH <bytyhwh@yahoo. com>
      Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle
      To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
      Date: Tuesday, 28 July, 2009, 12:24 PM

       

      Gilberto,

      there is NO confusion at all when the Day of Atonements or Coverings, or the Passover, or even the New Moon, would fall on the Seventh Day Sabbath.

      I remind you that the SCRIPTURAL Sabbath Day is the time from Dawn to Dusk, and NOT the Babylonian sunset / evening to sunset / evening.

      In such peculiar cases when they fall on the Seventh Day Sabbath, then the New Moon becomes ALSO the Sabbath Day, and the Passover becomes ALSO the Sabbath Day, and the Day of Atonements or Coverings makes that Sabbath Day also the Day of Affliction (Special Fasting and Prayer).

      Technically, there is NO PROBLEM, since cleaning of leaven (yeast), at the Passover, can be done just before the Sabbath Day, and preparing food is not necessary for the Day of Atonements or Coverings, being also a Day of Fasting.

      I do NOT see any confusion at all, even in such peculiar cases!

      All the Feast Days wander around the Days of the Week, simply because YHWH (Yahweh) Commanded HIS Feast Days on Set Days of the Month, and NOT on Set Days of the Week!

      Days of the Month and Days of the Weeks are NOT the SAME thing, simply because the Lunar Month is 29.5 Days, and it is NOT perfectly divisible for 7 Days (Weeks), so that Every Month has DIFFERENT Days of the Week, at the SAME Days of the Month.

      Lunar sabbath doctrine and theory, by resetting the Weeks at the New Moon, is trying to make match the Days of the Week with the Days of the Month, but, in doing so, is BREAKING Every Month the Weekly Cycle of Six Working Days and the Seventh Day Sabbath, as YHWH (Yahweh) Commanded (EXODUS 20:8-11), having a couple of extra days at the end of each lunar month, counted in various ways, depending from the lunar sabbatarian groups, some as UNSCRIPTURAL broken short weeks, some as UNSCRIPTURAL extra sabbath days, and some as UNSCRIPTURAL extra new moon days, and ALL of the UNSCRIPTURAL!

      There is NOTHING of CONFUSION and/or of SCRIPTURALLY INCORRECT that the Feast Days wander around the Days of the Week.

      On the contrary, it is absolutely CONFUSION / BABYLON to all who practice babylonian lunar sabbaths, to have UNSCRIPTURAL broken short weeks, or UNSCRIPTURAL extra sabbath days, or UNSCRIPTURAL extra new moon days, at the end of each lunar month!

      May YHWH (Yahweh) Open your mind, heart, eyes, and ears to COME OUT OF BABYLON / CONFUSION!

      In The Name of YHWSU (Yahshua), The TRUE MashiYah (MessiYah),

      Carlo Tognoni

      BYT YHWH
      www.byt-yhwh. org

      ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ===





      From: Gilbert Ventura <gilven55@yahoo. com>
      To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
      Cc: gilven55@yahoo. com
      Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 9:48:39 PM
      Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle

       

      Carlo,
           What is INCORRECT is when all the feast days wanders around the days of the week!
      This happens to all who practice saturday-sabbataria ns of Emperor Constantine. Can you imagine Day of atonement falling on saturday-sabbaths, also the Passover and even falling on the New Moon day!?
       This is absolutely CONFUSION.. and it is NOT YHWH who is the author of confusion.
         
      Gilberto

      --- On Tue, 7/28/09, BYT YHWH <bytyhwh@yahoo. com> wrote:

      From: BYT YHWH <bytyhwh@yahoo. com>
      Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle
      To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
      Date: Tuesday, 28 July, 2009, 8:47 AM

       

      Gilberto,

      finally you have admitted that the Feast Days or "Holy Days" may fall on ordinary six working days, and NOT only on Seventh Day Sabbaths or New Moons!

      HALLELUYAH! PRAISE YHWH (YAHWEH)!

      Now, it remains to you to admit that ALSO the New Moons may fall on ordinary six working days, since the New Moon of the Seventh Month is a Feast Day or "Holy Day", that is, The Feast of Trumpets or Day of Shoutings!

      Yechetzqyah (Ezekiel) 46:1-3 and Isayah 66:22-23 talk about New Moons and Sabbaths, INCLUDING The Feast Days or "Holy Days"!

      Your statement that "Ezekiel 46 and Isaiah 66:22,23 ...talks about the REGULAR New Moons and the subsequent REGULAR weekly Sabbaths", simply is SCRIPTURALLY INCORRECT, and it assumes that the New Moons would fall on a kind of "neutral days", not counted as working days, nor counted as Sabbaths!

      Intead, YHWH (Yahweh) Commanded all males of the Children of Yisrael to appear before Him ESPECIALLY at the time of The Feast Days or "Holy Days"!

      DEUTERONOMY 16:16-17 -
       16 Three times in a year shall all your males appear before YHWH (Yahweh) your Mighty One in the place which He shall choose; in the Feast of Unleavened (Bread), and in the Feast of Weeks, and in the Feast of Tabernacles: and they shall not appear before YHWH (Yahweh) empty:
       17 Every man shall give according to the gift of His hand, according to the blessing of YHWH (Yahweh) your Mighty One which He has given you.

      Then, YHWH (Yahweh)'s Feast Days or "Holy Days", such as those listed above, and as the Day of Atonements or Coverings (on the 10th Day of the 7th Month), and the Feast of Trumpets or Day of Shoutings (on the 1st Day of the 7th Month), are certainly included in HIS "Sabbaths" of Yechetzqyah (Ezekiel) 46:1-3 and Isayah 66:22-23!

      The Feast Day, or "High Day" or "Annual Sabbath", such as the 1st Day of Unleavened (Bread), just as ANY OTHER Feast Day or "Holy Day", sometimes can fall on one of the six working days, and sometimes can fall on the Weekly Seventh Day Sabbath.

      The case recorded in the 4 Evangels, at the time of the Death of YHWSU (Yahshua), The TRUE MashiYah (MessiYah), is NOT called a "double Sabbath", but an "High Day" falling on the Seventh Day Sabbath.

      YAHCHANAN (JOHN) 19:31 -
       31 The Yahdaim (Jews) therefore, because it was the Preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the stake on the Sabbath Day, (for that Sabbath Day was an High Day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

      That does NOT necessarily mean that EVERY YEAR the "High Day" of the 1st Day of Unleavened (Bread) would fall on the Seventh Day Sabbath, as the lunar sabbath doctrine and theory infers and assumes.

      The Scripture above is simply SPECIFYING that, in that Year, the "High Day" of the 1st Day of Unleavened (Bread), that is, the ANNUAL Sabbath, did fall on the Seventh Day Sabbath.

      In conclusion, using your own words, I could say, "I THINK YOU ARE THE ONE THAT NEEDS TO BE PRAYED FOR, FOR LACK OF UNDERSTANDING" .

      May YHWH (Yahweh) Open your mind, heart, eyes, and ears to Understand It!

      In The Name of YHWSU (Yahshua), The TRUE MashiYah (MessiYah),

      Carlo Tognoni

      BYT YHWH
      www.byt-yhwh. org

      ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ===





      From: Gilbert Ventura <gilven55@yahoo. .com>
      To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
      Cc: gilven55@yahoo. com
      Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 2:47:11 AM
      Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle

       

      Carlo,
           Ezekiel 46 and Isaiah 66:22,23.... . talks about the REGULAR New moons and the subsequent REGULAR weekly Sabbaths. Feast days or Holy Days such as the Day of Atonement is a special Holy day. Special Holydays like the Day of Atonement may fall on ordinary six working days. The Feast day such as the 1st day of Unleavened Bread falls on a lunar Sabbath, such as recorded in the 4 evangels, IS  called a double Sabbath.
          I THINK YOU ARE THE ONE THAT NEEDS TO BE PRAYED FOR , FOR LACK OF UNDERSTANDING.

      --- On Thu, 7/23/09, BYT YHWH <bytyhwh@yahoo. com> wrote:

      From: BYT YHWH <bytyhwh@yahoo. com>
      Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle
      To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
      Date: Thursday, 23 July, 2009, 8:57 AM

       

      Gilberto,

      actually I have already explained that OVER AND OVER AGAIN, but simply it does NOT match with your own interpretation, and point of view.

      "Shut on Six Working Days" simply means "Closed during the Six Working Days".

      But, as I have repeadly explained, SOME of YHWH (Yahweh)'s Set Apart Feast Days fall on the Six Working Days.

      Even with your "lunar only scenario", you have AT LEAST three Feast Days falling on the Six Working Days - that is, the 7th Day of Unleavened (Bread), and the Day of Pentecost, and the Day of Atonements (Coverings).

      Would the Eastern Gate of YHWH (Yahweh)'s Temple be Shut, or Open on such Set Apart Feast Days, that fall on the Six Working Days?

      The Scriptures are very clear: AT LEAST Some of YHWH (Yahweh)'s Set Apart Feast Days fall on one of the Six Working Days, making them Annual Sabbaths.
       
      Now, Please, show your human reasoning here, trying to defend your own interpretation, and point of view, that is SCRIPTURALLY without defense, and lets see if it is better or worst than Arnold's, or my human reasoning...

      May YHWH (Yahweh) Open your mind, heart, eyes, and ears to Understand It!

      In The Name of YHWSU (Yahshua), The TRUE MashiYah (MessiYah),

      Carlo Tognoni

      BYT YHWH
      www.byt-yhwh. org

      ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====





      From: Gilbert Ventura <gilven55@yahoo. . . . com>
      To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 6:51:25 PM
      Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle

       

      Carlo,
           You have NOT yet explain to everybody the meaning of the phrase "....SHUT ON SIX WORKING DAYS".I BET YOUR HUMAN REASONING IS WORST THAN Arnold.

      --- On Sun, 7/19/09, BYT YHWH <bytyhwh@yahoo. com> wrote:

      From: BYT YHWH <bytyhwh@yahoo. . com>
      Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle
      To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
      Date: Sunday, 19 July, 2009, 12:14 AM

       

      Shalom Everyone!

      That is another Proof that following faulty human reasoning we are lead to ridiculous conclusions.

      Here below Arnold uses faulty human reasoning, trying to "prove" the "traditional" Seventh Day cycle Sabbath to be "mathematically impossible".

      But, in his faultly human reasoning, Arnold forgot to think that ONE Daily Cycle, that is, One Day (Light Time) AND One Night (Darkness Time), lasts 24 Hours, and NOT more than that time!

      So that, even if two people would travel one to East, and the other to West, starting, for example, from the Middle East (where the Garden of Eden was placed), and they would meet one another overseas, where U.S.A. are currently located, they would be on the SAME Day, and NOT one Day apart one from another..

      Lets make a simple example, to show that.

      Lets say that they would make a trip with two boats, one going to East, and the other going to West, and they would meet overseas, two Weeks later.

      Lets say that both of them started their trips on the First Day of the Week, and they took the SAME time to arrive at the meeting place overseas, two Weeks later.

      BOTH of them would arrive on the Seventh Day Sabbath, two Weeks later, and NOT on two different Days.

      End of the Story!

      And please, Arnold, stop such ridiculous attempts to discredit the Scriptural Weekly Cycle, that is according to YHWH (Yahweh)'s Commandment to Work Six Days, and to Rest and Set Apart the Seventh Day as the Sabbath to YHWH (Yahweh) (EXODUS 20:8-11).

      May YHWH (Yahweh) Open your mind, heart, eyes, and ears to Understand It!

      In The Name of YHWSU (Yahshua), The TRUE MashiYah (MessiYah),

      Carlo Tognoni

      BYT YHWH
      www.byt-yhwh. org

      ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ===




       


      From: Brother Arnold <YHWHPeople@aol. com>
      To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
      Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 4:53:22 AM
      Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle

       

      The traditional seventh day cycle Sabbath is mathematically impossible.
       
      One of the ways the traditional Roman 7 Day Cycle Error can be exposed is by using common sense and math.. The traditional cycle cannot stand the math test because if the Roman uninterrupted cycle count of counting one through seven over and over is correct, people in the United States would AND SHOULD be Keeping the Seventh Day Sabbath on TWO different days, i.e. Friday and Saturday. The reason for this is because when men began to be fruitful and multiply on the Earth and migrated east and West around the Earth, their descendents would be on a different cycle when they met each other in the United States even though neither group missed a beat in their 7 day cycle count. This is an absolute.
       
      Here’s the way it works. The descendents of Adam traveling east would actually gain time and would see the Sun Sooner and sooner each day and the tribes traveling West would actually lose time because they are going away from the sun and when they had migrated 4 or 5 hours east and West of the garden of Eden, Adams descendents traveling East would keep Saturday 8 or 10 hours before the ones traveling west. There would be no problem so far and this fact would go unnoticed but when they bumped into each other in the United States the tribe that migrated east would be keeping Saturday 24 hours BEFORE the tribes that traveled west and are now a day behind the ones that migrated east. They would be a whole day apart and when the sun rose on both Tribes it would be Saturday the 7th day of the week/cycle to one tribe and Friday and they 6th day of the week/cycle to the other because the ones that had traveled west would not count the day until it came around to them. Remember the ones that traveled west were keeping the seventh day cycle AFTER the ones that traveled east and when they meet in American they would still keep the seventh day cycle AFTER the ones that traveled west and it would now be 24 hours later. This is an absolute and cannot be intelligently argued against. This is why the Heavenly Father never instituted the traditional cycle because it will not work. Please meditate on this because your life depends on it.
       
      The above conclusively proves the Roman calendar and its cycle wrong. This problem goes away with Lunar Weeks and Lunar Sabbaths.
       
      Someone might argue that the sons of Adam that traveled east should give up their seventh day cycle that they inherited from their fathers and get on the cycle with the sons of Adam which traveled west. They could argue that those that traveled east were creating a cycle that did not belong but on the other hand the ones that traveled east could argue that the ones that travel West lost a cycle that did belong.  Remember both groups are sons of Adam and both seventh day cycle would be valid as if Adam himself had traveled east or west. Adam lived to be 969 years old and could have migrated east or west to the United States either one of the tribes and it would still be the weekly Seventh day no matter which way he travel.
       
      Someone might argue that the Sabbath should begin in Jerusalem and go around the Earth but the problem with this is the Sabbath was not made for Jerusalem, the Sabbath was made for man and no matter which way they traveled, east or west, they were to keep the Sabbath day.
       
      If people would only admit the Scripture teaches in Ezekiel 46:1 that the new moon worship days are not counted in with the six working days when counting out the week, this would make the weeks lunar weeks instead of the traditional solar week and the weekly Seventh day of the week will always fall on the eighth, 15th, 22nd, and 29th days of the month. The weeks to Pentecost are lunar weeks because the first day of the first week to Pentecost each and every year is always on the 16th which is the Morrow after the Sabbath or the Morrow after the 7th day/15th of the preceding week.

      The people who count the weeks to Pentecost from the Morrow after the 15th, the first two weeks will be lunar weeks because the 15th day of the month/moon is lunar itself each and every year. The first week to Pentecost will be from the 16th through the 22nd, making the 22nd the FIRST seventh day of the lunar week to Pentecost and the next complete week to Pentecost will be from the 23rd through the 29th, making the 29th the seventh day of that week and the SECOND Sabbath complete to Pentecost. This is an absolute every year and this is the way the the Scripture teaches to count the weeks to Pentecost and the Septuagint makes it very clear, Leviticus 23.
       
      Here’s another interesting fact that cannot be intelligently denied.. Now if the 16th day is the FIRST DAY of the week in the first month each year, this makes the 15th day the SEVENTH DAY of the week in the first month each year. The 15th is actually called the seventh day in Deuteronomy 5:12 – 15 which reads,
      “De 5:12 Keep the Sabbath day to sanctify it, as YHWH thy Mighty One20hath commanded thee.
      De 5:13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
      De 5:14 But the SEVENTH DAY is the SABBATH of YHWH thy Mighty One: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
      De 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that YHWH thy Mighty One brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore YHWH thy Mighty One commanded thee to keep the Sabbath day.”

      Notice the Sabbath day is referring to the seventh day of the week and it was the seventh day Sabbath that they were given rest from Egypt’s bondage according to Numbers 33:3 and other Scriptures which teach that it was the 15th day that they were delivered out of Egypt’s bondage. The 15th is also referred to as the SEVENTH DAY in Exodus 13:6 where it says that the CHAG is in the SEVENTH DAY and it cannot be talking about the seventh day of the feast because the seventh day of the feast is never called a CHAG, but the 15th is called the CHAG in many places such as Leviticus 23:6, Psalms 81:3 etc. see my article on this at
      http://www.lun ar.sabbath.info


      The Septuagint taught Lunar Weeks which ended in a Lunar Seventh day. According to Scholars, the Septuagint was the Bible of the Apostles and early Christians. Most of the Old Testament quotes found in the New Testament were direct quote from the Septuagint. These were quote from the Messiah himself, not to mention His Apostles who wrote the New Testament. They say the New Testament Christian converts were Greek speaking people and read from the Septuagint as did the Greek speaking Jews... Most scholars and even The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia admits that the weeks were originally by the phases of the moon/lunar. A person really has to be blinded by tradition not to investigate this subject. Especially when you cannot find a pinpointed weekly Sabbath that cannot be intelligently argued against that was on any other day than by the moon.
       
      Some argue that they count Pentecost from a supposedly weekly Sabbath that falls within the days of unleavened bread. There is absolutely no Historical evidence whatsoever of anyo ne using such a count during the Temple times. There is plenty of scriptural and Historical evidence during the Temple times were they counted lunar weeks to Pentecost. The Septuagint Scriptures in Leviticus 23 taught this count and we have eyewitness testimony from people who live during the time the Temple was standing, that this is the way it was done. Both Josephus and Philo who lived at this time testify that this is the way it was done. All of these were during the Temple times and there is not even one piece of evidence to the contrary that goes back to Temple times. Some try to say the Mishnah and Jewish Talmud which discusses the traditional Sabbath but neither of these goes back to Temple times. They were written 200 to 500 years after the fact. You have absolutely nothing that was written during Temple times supporting solar weeks to Pentecost. Everything support lunar weeks to Pentecost. People will still believe what they want to believe and follow the traditions of men without any scriptural or Historical evidence to support their belief. There are more loyal to their denomination, organization, preacher, etc, than they are to the word of the Almighty. May He have mercy on their soul before it is everlasting too late.
       
       
       
       
       
       
       


       Brother Arnold www.lunarsabbath. info


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    • BYT YHWH
      Gilberto, I do NOT manipulate any Issue, since I am a TRUTH Seeker! If you have no problem with EXODUS Chapter 31, THEN ACCEPT IT, since YHWH (Yahweh) clearly
      Message 2 of 22 , Aug 1, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Gilberto,

        I do NOT manipulate any Issue, since I am a TRUTH Seeker!

        If you have no problem with EXODUS Chapter 31, THEN ACCEPT IT, since YHWH (Yahweh) clearly Commanded, and Prophetised that the Children of Yisrael (Israel) would keep and observe The Seventh Day Sabbath after Six Day of Work, to be a SIGN between HIM ad them, throughtout ALL their Generations, as a Perpetual Covenant, For Ever.

        The Issue is that EXODUS Chapter 31 clearly Proves that, since the Children of Yisrael (Israel) have continued to keep and observe The Seventh Day Sabbath on the Day commonly called "Saturday" in modern English, at least from the Time of YHWSU (Yahshua), Who kept and observed the SAME Day as The Seventh Day Sabbath, just as they do (LUKE 4:15-16).

        According to EXODUS 31:12-18, YHWH (Yahweh) Commanded to the Children of Yisrael (Israel) the Weekly Cycle as Six Days of Work, and The Seventh Day as The Sabbath of Rest, Set Apart to HIM, and Prophetised to be a SIGN between HIM and them, throughout ALL their Generation, as a Perpetual Covenant, For Ever.

        It is just as simple as that! Six Days of Work, and The Seventh Day as The Sabbath of Rest, Set Apart to YHWH (Yahweh), just as YHWH (Yahweh)'s Commandment says (EXODUS 20:8-11; DEUTORONOMY 5:12-15).

        The Historic Fact that the Yahdaim (Jews), that are The House of Yahdah, being part of The Children of Yisrael (Israel), have continued to keep and observe The Seventh Day Sabbath on the Day commonly called "Saturday" in modern English, at least from the Time of YHWSU (Yahshua), Who kept and observed the SAME Day as The Seventh Day Sabbath, just as they do (LUKE 4:15-16), clearly Proves that ALL their Generations have continued to have YHWH (Yahweh)'s SIGN, according to the Prophecy in EXODUS 31:12-18.

        Actually the burden of the Historic Proof is on your theory and doctrine of "lunar sabbath".

        You should Prove that A TOTAL APOSTASY OF ALL THE YAHDAIM (JEWS) (NOT A PARTIAL APOSTASY OF SEVERAL OF THEM, as The Scriptural Prophecies indicate) would be occurred sometime around the time of Constantine, and ALL OF THEM would have abandoned YHWH (Yahweh)'s Weekly Cycle, and adopted Constantine's weekly cycle, and that "lunar sabbatarians" were present in ALL THE AGES, at least from the Time of YHWSU (Yahshua).

        NO such things were EVER recorded anywhere, since they NEVER occurred!

        May YHWH (Yahweh) Open uyour mind, heart, eyes, and ears to Understand It!

        In The Name of YHWSU (Yahshua), The TRUE MashiYah (MessiYah),

        Carlo Tognoni

        BYT YHWH
        www.byt-yhwh.org

        =============================================================





        From: Gilbert Ventura <gilven55@...>
        To: TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2009 3:42:51 PM
        Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle

         

        Carlo,
            I have no problem with Exodus 31, don't manipulate the issue, the issue is, you have NOT proven that the weekly cycle of the present calendar weekly cycle is also the weekly cycle of Exodus 31.

        Bro.Gilberto

        --- On Fri, 7/31/09, BYT YHWH <bytyhwh@yahoo. com> wrote:

        From: BYT YHWH <bytyhwh@yahoo. com>
        Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle
        To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
        Date: Friday, 31 July, 2009, 1:33 PM

         

        Gilberto,

        just read what YHWH (Yahweh), NOT Constantine, NOT me, said:

        EXODUS 31:12-18 -
         12 And YHWH (Yahweh) spoke to Mosheh (Moses), saying,
         13 Speak you also to the Children of Yisrael (Israel), saying, Verily My Sabbaths you shall keep: for it is a Sign between Me and you throughout your Generations; that you may know that I am YHWH (Yahweh) that does sanctify you.
         14 You shall keep the Sabbath therefore; for it is Set Apart (Holy) to you: every one that defiles it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
         15 Six Days may work be done; but in the Seventh is the Sabbath of Rest, Set Apart (Holy) to YHWH (Yahweh): whosoever does any work in the Sabbath Day, he shall surely be put to death.
         16 Wherefore the Children of Yisrael (Israel) shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their Generations, for a Perpetual Covenant.
         17 It is a Sign between Me and the Children of Yisrael (Israel) for ever: for in Six Days YHWH (Yahweh) made Heaven and Earth, and on the Seventh Day He rested, and was refreshed.
         18 And He gave to Mosheh (Moses), when He had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, Two Tables of Testimony, Tables of Stone, written with the Finger of The Mighty One.

        That is the Word of YHWH (Yahweh), HIS Law (Torah), and HIS Prophecy throughout ALL the Generations of the Children of Yisrael (Israel), for a Perpetual Covenant, FOR EVER!

        That is NOT mere assumption / speculation / presumption, as you ERRONEOUSLY claim that my Beliefs would be founded!

        History Proves that the Children of Yisrael (Israel) have kept The Sabbath on The Seventh Day, on the SAME Day commonly called "Saturday" in modern English, at least from the Time of YHWSU (Yahshua), Who kept the SAME Day as The Sabbath, going, as His custom was, to their Synagogue on the Sabbath Day.

        LUKE 4:15-16 -
         15 And He taught in their Synagogues, being glorified of all.
         16 And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up: and, as His custom was, He went into the Synagogue on the Sabbath Day, and stood up for to read.

        May YHWH (Yahweh) Open your mind, heart, eyes, and ears to Understand It!

        In The Name of YHWSU (Yahshua), The TRUE MashiYah (MessiYah),

        Carlo Tognoni

        BYT YHWH
        www.byt-yhwh. org

        ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========






        From: Gilbert Ventura <gilven55@yahoo. com>
        To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
        Cc: gilven55@yahoo. com
        Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:30:03 PM
        Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle

         

        Carlo,
             You have not proven to everyone that the present calendar and its weekly cycle was the same weekly cycle of ancient Israel. I REMEMBER, you merely presume that its the same without citing proof.In other words, your beliefs is founded on mere assumption/speculat ion.

        Gilberto

        --- On Wed, 7/29/09, BYT YHWH <bytyhwh@yahoo. com> wrote:

        From: BYT YHWH <bytyhwh@yahoo. com>
        Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle
        To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
        Date: Wednesday, 29 July, 2009, 3:49 PM

         

        Gilberto,

        I remind you that YHWH (Yahweh), NOT Constantine, NOT me, Commanded a Weekly Cycle, saying to us to Work the First Six Days, and to Rest the Seventh Day, to be Set Apart to HIM as The Sabbath (EXODUS 20:8-11).

        With the SCRIPTURAL Belief and Practice that I am following, there is a case in which a Feast Day, an Annual SABBATH, is SET and Commanded to be Kept on the New Moon, that can fall on the Seventh Day Sabbath.

        That is the SET Feast of Trumpets (or Day of Shoutings), that YHWH (Yahweh), NOT Constantine, NOT me, Commanded to be SET and Kept on the First Day (the New Moon) of the Seventh Month!

        LEVITICUS 23:23-25 -
         23 And YHWH (Yahweh) spoke to Mosheh (Moses), saying,
         24 Speak to the Children of Yisrael (Israel), saying, In the Seventh Month, in the First Day of the Month, shall you have a SABBATH, a Memorial of Blowing of Trumpets (Shoutings), a Set Apart (Holy) Convocation.
         25 You shall do no servile work therein: but you shall offer an offering made by fire to YHWH (Yahweh).

        Would you call CONFUSION, something that YHWH (Yahweh) has SET and Commanded us to Keep???

        May YHWH (Yahweh) Open your mind, heart, eyes, and ears to Understand It!

        In The Name of YHWSU (Yahshua), The TRUE MashiYah (MessiYah),

        Carlo Tognoni

        BYT YHWH
        www.byt-yhwh. org

        ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ===





        From: Gilbert Ventura <gilven55@yahoo. com>
        To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
        Cc: gilven55@yahoo. com
        Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:04:49 PM
        Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle

         

        Carlo,
              With your belief/practice of Constantine weekly cycle, a Feast or a Holyday and New Moon and your Saturday-Sabbath may FALL ON THE SAME DAY/DATE...you don't call this confusion?

        Bro..Gilberto

        --- On Tue, 7/28/09, BYT YHWH <bytyhwh@yahoo. com> wrote:

        From: BYT YHWH <bytyhwh@yahoo. com>
        Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle
        To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
        Date: Tuesday, 28 July, 2009, 12:24 PM

         

        Gilberto,

        there is NO confusion at all when the Day of Atonements or Coverings, or the Passover, or even the New Moon, would fall on the Seventh Day Sabbath.

        I remind you that the SCRIPTURAL Sabbath Day is the time from Dawn to Dusk, and NOT the Babylonian sunset / evening to sunset / evening.

        In such peculiar cases when they fall on the Seventh Day Sabbath, then the New Moon becomes ALSO the Sabbath Day, and the Passover becomes ALSO the Sabbath Day, and the Day of Atonements or Coverings makes that Sabbath Day also the Day of Affliction (Special Fasting and Prayer).

        Technically, there is NO PROBLEM, since cleaning of leaven (yeast), at the Passover, can be done just before the Sabbath Day, and preparing food is not necessary for the Day of Atonements or Coverings, being also a Day of Fasting.

        I do NOT see any confusion at all, even in such peculiar cases!

        All the Feast Days wander around the Days of the Week, simply because YHWH (Yahweh) Commanded HIS Feast Days on Set Days of the Month, and NOT on Set Days of the Week!

        Days of the Month and Days of the Weeks are NOT the SAME thing, simply because the Lunar Month is 29.5 Days, and it is NOT perfectly divisible for 7 Days (Weeks), so that Every Month has DIFFERENT Days of the Week, at the SAME Days of the Month.

        Lunar sabbath doctrine and theory, by resetting the Weeks at the New Moon, is trying to make match the Days of the Week with the Days of the Month, but, in doing so, is BREAKING Every Month the Weekly Cycle of Six Working Days and the Seventh Day Sabbath, as YHWH (Yahweh) Commanded (EXODUS 20:8-11), having a couple of extra days at the end of each lunar month, counted in various ways, depending from the lunar sabbatarian groups, some as UNSCRIPTURAL broken short weeks, some as UNSCRIPTURAL extra sabbath days, and some as UNSCRIPTURAL extra new moon days, and ALL of the UNSCRIPTURAL!

        There is NOTHING of CONFUSION and/or of SCRIPTURALLY INCORRECT that the Feast Days wander around the Days of the Week.

        On the contrary, it is absolutely CONFUSION / BABYLON to all who practice babylonian lunar sabbaths, to have UNSCRIPTURAL broken short weeks, or UNSCRIPTURAL extra sabbath days, or UNSCRIPTURAL extra new moon days, at the end of each lunar month!

        May YHWH (Yahweh) Open your mind, heart, eyes, and ears to COME OUT OF BABYLON / CONFUSION!

        In The Name of YHWSU (Yahshua), The TRUE MashiYah (MessiYah),

        Carlo Tognoni

        BYT YHWH
        www.byt-yhwh. org

        ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ===





        From: Gilbert Ventura <gilven55@yahoo. com>
        To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
        Cc: gilven55@yahoo. com
        Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 9:48:39 PM
        Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle

         

        Carlo,
             What is INCORRECT is when all the feast days wanders around the days of the week!
        This happens to all who practice saturday-sabbataria ns of Emperor Constantine. Can you imagine Day of atonement falling on saturday-sabbaths, also the Passover and even falling on the New Moon day!?
         This is absolutely CONFUSION.. and it is NOT YHWH who is the author of confusion..
           
        Gilberto

        --- On Tue, 7/28/09, BYT YHWH <bytyhwh@yahoo. com> wrote:

        From: BYT YHWH <bytyhwh@yahoo. com>
        Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle
        To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
        Date: Tuesday, 28 July, 2009, 8:47 AM

         

        Gilberto,

        finally you have admitted that the Feast Days or "Holy Days" may fall on ordinary six working days, and NOT only on Seventh Day Sabbaths or New Moons!

        HALLELUYAH! PRAISE YHWH (YAHWEH)!

        Now, it remains to you to admit that ALSO the New Moons may fall on ordinary six working days, since the New Moon of the Seventh Month is a Feast Day or "Holy Day", that is, The Feast of Trumpets or Day of Shoutings!

        Yechetzqyah (Ezekiel) 46:1-3 and Isayah 66:22-23 talk about New Moons and Sabbaths, INCLUDING The Feast Days or "Holy Days"!

        Your statement that "Ezekiel 46 and Isaiah 66:22,23 ...talks about the REGULAR New Moons and the subsequent REGULAR weekly Sabbaths", simply is SCRIPTURALLY INCORRECT, and it assumes that the New Moons would fall on a kind of "neutral days", not counted as working days, nor counted as Sabbaths!

        Intead, YHWH (Yahweh) Commanded all males of the Children of Yisrael to appear before Him ESPECIALLY at the time of The Feast Days or "Holy Days"!

        DEUTERONOMY 16:16-17 -
         16 Three times in a year shall all your males appear before YHWH (Yahweh) your Mighty One in the place which He shall choose; in the Feast of Unleavened (Bread), and in the Feast of Weeks, and in the Feast of Tabernacles: and they shall not appear before YHWH (Yahweh) empty:
         17 Every man shall give according to the gift of His hand, according to the blessing of YHWH (Yahweh) your Mighty One which He has given you.

        Then, YHWH (Yahweh)'s Feast Days or "Holy Days", such as those listed above, and as the Day of Atonements or Coverings (on the 10th Day of the 7th Month), and the Feast of Trumpets or Day of Shoutings (on the 1st Day of the 7th Month), are certainly included in HIS "Sabbaths" of Yechetzqyah (Ezekiel) 46:1-3 and Isayah 66:22-23!

        The Feast Day, or "High Day" or "Annual Sabbath", such as the 1st Day of Unleavened (Bread), just as ANY OTHER Feast Day or "Holy Day", sometimes can fall on one of the six working days, and sometimes can fall on the Weekly Seventh Day Sabbath.

        The case recorded in the 4 Evangels, at the time of the Death of YHWSU (Yahshua), The TRUE MashiYah (MessiYah), is NOT called a "double Sabbath", but an "High Day" falling on the Seventh Day Sabbath.

        YAHCHANAN (JOHN) 19:31 -
         31 The Yahdaim (Jews) therefore, because it was the Preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the stake on the Sabbath Day, (for that Sabbath Day was an High Day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

        That does NOT necessarily mean that EVERY YEAR the "High Day" of the 1st Day of Unleavened (Bread) would fall on the Seventh Day Sabbath, as the lunar sabbath doctrine and theory infers and assumes.

        The Scripture above is simply SPECIFYING that, in that Year, the "High Day" of the 1st Day of Unleavened (Bread), that is, the ANNUAL Sabbath, did fall on the Seventh Day Sabbath.

        In conclusion, using your own words, I could say, "I THINK YOU ARE THE ONE THAT NEEDS TO BE PRAYED FOR, FOR LACK OF UNDERSTANDING" .

        May YHWH (Yahweh) Open your mind, heart, eyes, and ears to Understand It!

        In The Name of YHWSU (Yahshua), The TRUE MashiYah (MessiYah),

        Carlo Tognoni

        BYT YHWH
        www.byt-yhwh. org

        ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ===





        From: Gilbert Ventura <gilven55@yahoo. .com>
        To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
        Cc: gilven55@yahoo. com
        Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 2:47:11 AM
        Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle

         

        Carlo,
             Ezekiel 46 and Isaiah 66:22,23.... . talks about the REGULAR New moons and the subsequent REGULAR weekly Sabbaths. Feast days or Holy Days such as the Day of Atonement is a special Holy day. Special Holydays like the Day of Atonement may fall on ordinary six working days. The Feast day such as the 1st day of Unleavened Bread falls on a lunar Sabbath, such as recorded in the 4 evangels, IS  called a double Sabbath.
            I THINK YOU ARE THE ONE THAT NEEDS TO BE PRAYED FOR , FOR LACK OF UNDERSTANDING.

        --- On Thu, 7/23/09, BYT YHWH <bytyhwh@yahoo. com> wrote:

        From: BYT YHWH <bytyhwh@yahoo. com>
        Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle
        To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
        Date: Thursday, 23 July, 2009, 8:57 AM

         

        Gilberto,

        actually I have already explained that OVER AND OVER AGAIN, but simply it does NOT match with your own interpretation, and point of view.

        "Shut on Six Working Days" simply means "Closed during the Six Working Days".

        But, as I have repeadly explained, SOME of YHWH (Yahweh)'s Set Apart Feast Days fall on the Six Working Days.

        Even with your "lunar only scenario", you have AT LEAST three Feast Days falling on the Six Working Days - that is, the 7th Day of Unleavened (Bread), and the Day of Pentecost, and the Day of Atonements (Coverings).

        Would the Eastern Gate of YHWH (Yahweh)'s Temple be Shut, or Open on such Set Apart Feast Days, that fall on the Six Working Days?

        The Scriptures are very clear: AT LEAST Some of YHWH (Yahweh)'s Set Apart Feast Days fall on one of the Six Working Days, making them Annual Sabbaths.
         
        Now, Please, show your human reasoning here, trying to defend your own interpretation, and point of view, that is SCRIPTURALLY without defense, and lets see if it is better or worst than Arnold's, or my human reasoning...

        May YHWH (Yahweh) Open your mind, heart, eyes, and ears to Understand It!

        In The Name of YHWSU (Yahshua), The TRUE MashiYah (MessiYah),

        Carlo Tognoni

        BYT YHWH
        www.byt-yhwh. org

        ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====





        From: Gilbert Ventura <gilven55@yahoo.. . . . com>
        To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 6:51:25 PM
        Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle

         

        Carlo,
             You have NOT yet explain to everybody the meaning of the phrase "....SHUT ON SIX WORKING DAYS".I BET YOUR HUMAN REASONING IS WORST THAN Arnold.

        --- On Sun, 7/19/09, BYT YHWH <bytyhwh@yahoo. com> wrote:

        From: BYT YHWH <bytyhwh@yahoo. . com>
        Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle
        To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
        Date: Sunday, 19 July, 2009, 12:14 AM

         

        Shalom Everyone!

        That is another Proof that following faulty human reasoning we are lead to ridiculous conclusions.

        Here below Arnold uses faulty human reasoning, trying to "prove" the "traditional" Seventh Day cycle Sabbath to be "mathematically impossible".

        But, in his faultly human reasoning, Arnold forgot to think that ONE Daily Cycle, that is, One Day (Light Time) AND One Night (Darkness Time), lasts 24 Hours, and NOT more than that time!

        So that, even if two people would travel one to East, and the other to West, starting, for example, from the Middle East (where the Garden of Eden was placed), and they would meet one another overseas, where U.S.A. are currently located, they would be on the SAME Day, and NOT one Day apart one from another..

        Lets make a simple example, to show that.

        Lets say that they would make a trip with two boats, one going to East, and the other going to West, and they would meet overseas, two Weeks later.

        Lets say that both of them started their trips on the First Day of the Week, and they took the SAME time to arrive at the meeting place overseas, two Weeks later.

        BOTH of them would arrive on the Seventh Day Sabbath, two Weeks later, and NOT on two different Days.

        End of the Story!

        And please, Arnold, stop such ridiculous attempts to discredit the Scriptural Weekly Cycle, that is according to YHWH (Yahweh)'s Commandment to Work Six Days, and to Rest and Set Apart the Seventh Day as the Sabbath to YHWH (Yahweh) (EXODUS 20:8-11).

        May YHWH (Yahweh) Open your mind, heart, eyes, and ears to Understand It!

        In The Name of YHWSU (Yahshua), The TRUE MashiYah (MessiYah),

        Carlo Tognoni

        BYT YHWH
        www.byt-yhwh. org

        ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ===




         


        From: Brother Arnold <YHWHPeople@aol. com>
        To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
        Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 4:53:22 AM
        Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle

         

        The traditional seventh day cycle Sabbath is mathematically impossible.
         
        One of the ways the traditional Roman 7 Day Cycle Error can be exposed is by using common sense and math.. The traditional cycle cannot stand the math test because if the Roman uninterrupted cycle count of counting one through seven over and over is correct, people in the United States would AND SHOULD be Keeping the Seventh Day Sabbath on TWO different days, i.e. Friday and Saturday. The reason for this is because when men began to be fruitful and multiply on the Earth and migrated east and West around the Earth, their descendents would be on a different cycle when they met each other in the United States even though neither group missed a beat in their 7 day cycle count. This is an absolute.
         
        Here’s the way it works. The descendents of Adam traveling east would actually gain time and would see the Sun Sooner and sooner each day and the tribes traveling West would actually lose time because they are going away from the sun and when they had migrated 4 or 5 hours east and West of the garden of Eden, Adams descendents traveling East would keep Saturday 8 or 10 hours before the ones traveling west. There would be no problem so far and this fact would go unnoticed but when they bumped into each other in the United States the tribe that migrated east would be keeping Saturday 24 hours BEFORE the tribes that traveled west and are now a day behind the ones that migrated east. They would be a whole day apart and when the sun rose on both Tribes it would be Saturday the 7th day of the week/cycle to one tribe and Friday and they 6th day of the week/cycle to the other because the ones that had traveled west would not count the day until it came around to them. Remember the ones that traveled west were keeping the seventh day cycle AFTER the ones that traveled east and when they meet in American they would still keep the seventh day cycle AFTER the ones that traveled west and it would now be 24 hours later. This is an absolute and cannot be intelligently argued against. This is why the Heavenly Father never instituted the traditional cycle because it will not work. Please meditate on this because your life depends on it.
         
        The above conclusively proves the Roman calendar and its cycle wrong. This problem goes away with Lunar Weeks and Lunar Sabbaths.
         
        Someone might argue that the sons of Adam that traveled east should give up their seventh day cycle that they inherited from their fathers and get on the cycle with the sons of Adam which traveled west. They could argue that those that traveled east were creating a cycle that did not belong but on the other hand the ones that traveled east could argue that the ones that travel West lost a cycle that did belong.  Remember both groups are sons of Adam and both seventh day cycle would be valid as if Adam himself had traveled east or west. Adam lived to be 969 years old and could have migrated east or west to the United States either one of the tribes and it would still be the weekly Seventh day no matter which way he travel.
         
        Someone might argue that the Sabbath should begin in Jerusalem and go around the Earth but the problem with this is the Sabbath was not made for Jerusalem, the Sabbath was made for man and no matter which way they traveled, east or west, they were to keep the Sabbath day.
         
        If people would only admit the Scripture teaches in Ezekiel 46:1 that the new moon worship days are not counted in with the six working days when counting out the week, this would make the weeks lunar weeks instead of the traditional solar week and the weekly Seventh day of the week will always fall on the eighth, 15th, 22nd, and 29th days of the month. The weeks to Pentecost are lunar weeks because the first day of the first week to Pentecost each and every year is always on the 16th which is the Morrow after the Sabbath or the Morrow after the 7th day/15th of the preceding week.

        The people who count the weeks to Pentecost from the Morrow after the 15th, the first two weeks will be lunar weeks because the 15th day of the month/moon is lunar itself each and every year. The first week to Pentecost will be from the 16th through the 22nd, making the 22nd the FIRST seventh day of the lunar week to Pentecost and the next complete week to Pentecost will be from the 23rd through the 29th, making the 29th the seventh day of that week and the SECOND Sabbath complete to Pentecost. This is an absolute every year and this is the way the the Scripture teaches to count the weeks to Pentecost and the Septuagint makes it very clear, Leviticus 23.
         
        Here’s another interesting fact that cannot be intelligently denied.. Now if the 16th day is the FIRST DAY of the week in the first month each year, this makes the 15th day the SEVENTH DAY of the week in the first month each year. The 15th is actually called the seventh day in Deuteronomy 5:12 – 15 which reads,
        “De 5:12 Keep the Sabbath day to sanctify it, as YHWH thy Mighty One20hath commanded thee.
        De 5:13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
        De 5:14 But the SEVENTH DAY is the SABBATH of YHWH thy Mighty One: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
        De 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that YHWH thy Mighty One brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore YHWH thy Mighty One commanded thee to keep the Sabbath day.”

        Notice the Sabbath day is referring to the seventh day of the week and it was the seventh day Sabbath that they were given rest from Egypt’s bondage according to Numbers 33:3 and other Scriptures which teach that it was the 15th day that they were delivered out of Egypt’s bondage. The 15th is also referred to as the SEVENTH DAY in Exodus 13:6 where it says that the CHAG is in the SEVENTH DAY and it cannot be talking about the seventh day of the feast because the seventh day of the feast is never called a CHAG, but the 15th is called the CHAG in many places such as Leviticus 23:6, Psalms 81:3 etc. see my article on this at
        http://www.lun ar.sabbath.info


        The Septuagint taught Lunar Weeks which ended in a Lunar Seventh day. According to Scholars, the Septuagint was the Bible of the Apostles and early Christians. Most of the Old Testament quotes found in the New Testament were direct quote from the Septuagint. These were quote from the Messiah himself, not to mention His Apostles who wrote the New Testament. They say the New Testament Christian converts were Greek speaking people and read from the Septuagint as did the Greek speaking Jews... Most scholars and even The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia admits that the weeks were originally by the phases of the moon/lunar. A person really has to be blinded by tradition not to investigate this subject. Especially when you cannot find a pinpointed weekly Sabbath that cannot be intelligently argued against that was on any other day than by the moon.
         
        Some argue that they count Pentecost from a supposedly weekly Sabbath that falls within the days of unleavened bread. There is absolutely no Historical evidence whatsoever of anyo ne using such a count during the Temple times. There is plenty of scriptural and Historical evidence during the Temple times were they counted lunar weeks to Pentecost. The Septuagint Scriptures in Leviticus 23 taught this count and we have eyewitness testimony from people who live during the time the Temple was standing, that this is the way it was done. Both Josephus and Philo who lived at this time testify that this is the way it was done. All of these were during the Temple times and there is not even one piece of evidence to the contrary that goes back to Temple times. Some try to say the Mishnah and Jewish Talmud which discusses the traditional Sabbath but neither of these goes back to Temple times. They were written 200 to 500 years after the fact. You have absolutely nothing that was written during Temple times supporting solar weeks to Pentecost. Everything support lunar weeks to Pentecost. People will still believe what they want to believe and follow the traditions of men without any scriptural or Historical evidence to support their belief. There are more loyal to their denomination, organization, preacher, etc, than they are to the word of the Almighty. May He have mercy on their soul before it is everlasting too late.
         
         
         
         
         
         
         


         Brother Arnold www.lunarsabbath. info


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      • Brother Arnold
        The traditional uninterrupted Seventh day cycle conclusively proven unscriptural.   I have demonstrated in another article how that when men began to multiply
        Message 3 of 22 , Aug 20, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          The traditional uninterrupted Seventh day cycle conclusively proven unscriptural.
           
          I have demonstrated in another article how that when men began to multiply on the Earth and migrated east and west they would be on TWO separate day cycles when they meet on the outside of the Earth even if it took them 1000 years and neither of them missed a beat in their count. This is an absolute that cannot be intelligently argued against and this is extremely problematic for the traditional uninterrupted cycle Sabbath keeper because the Scripture only teaches ONE seventh day of the week.
           
          When men discovered this problem which was caused by Julius Caesar when he booted the moon out of the calendar contrary to Genesis 1:14 and Psalms 104:19 thinking to change times and laws as Daniel prophesied and came up with the solar only month it created major problems that was discovered when men begin sailing around the Earth. They tried to solve it by inventing an imaginary line called the International Date Line which would somehow magically add or subtract one full day, depending on which way you are traveling, when you cross it. This supposedly put the travelers back on the same day of the solar month which was created by Julius Caesar in 46 BC but in reality they are in two different days of the solar month and solar week. Just saying you lose or gained a day when crossing the imaginary man made date line does not make it true, the seven day cycle still exists and there are TW O of them with the traditional count and this alone proves the traditional seven day cycle is unscriptural.
           
          Not only will they have TWO back to back Seventh days there will be TWO separate counts to Pentecost for those who count from the Morrow after the traditional weekly Sabbath which is also unscriptural because the Scripture teaches only one Pentecost and with the traditional cycle some would begin the count from the Morrow after Saturday and the others from the Morrow after Sunday 24-hour later=2 0and they would both be right according to the traditional uninterrupted cycle Sabbath. Oh what a tangled web we weave when trying to justify our error instead of confessing it and then repenting and forsaking it. What a mess!
           
          For those who still don’t believe you will be in TWO separate days with the traditional count you can go to any encyclopedia, NASA, or to the US Naval Observatory at
          http://www.usno.navy.mil/USNO/astronomical-applications/astronomical-information-center/inter-date-line for confirmation or you can actually fly around the Earth keeping up with the evenings and mornings/days never missing a count and when you return you will be on a different day than the people you left behind.
           
          With the lunar months and lunar weeks this problem goes away because when they meet a 1000 years later after slowly migrating around the Earth East and West they will look up and be in the same day of the lunar month and day of the lunar week because with the creation calendar it will self adjust and you need no man-made date line and with the creation calendar even if they were not  on the same day of the month and week when they meet they certainly would be when the next new moon comes around but with the traditional cycle Sabbath they will never ever be in the same cycle for Pentecost or the weekly Sabbath unless one of them goes back around the Earth. Again, this is an absolute that cannot be intelligently argued against and the next step is to turn from the tradition of men to the Scripture because the day of the Almighty is near.


           Brother Arnold www.lunarsabbath.info


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Brother Arnold <YHWHPeople@...>
          To: TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wed, Jul 22, 2009 11:29 pm
          Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle

          =0 D
           
            Shalom Carlo and Everyone!


          If two people would travel one to East, and the other to West, starting, for example, from the Middle East (where the Garden of Eden was placed), and they would meet one another overseas, where U.S.A. are currently located, they would have TWO 7th Day CYCLES on TWO separate days, one Day apart one from another. This is a mathematical certainty that cannot be intelligently argued against.

          Lets make a simple example, to show that.

          Lets say that they would make a trip with two boats, one going to East, and the other going to West, would they meet overseas on the SAME CYCLE??? Absolutely not!
           
          The20reason for this is because the artificial man-made International Date Line will put them on the SAME DATE but there will still be in 2 separate seventh day CYCLES. In=2 0other words the ones that traveled east will gang time and keep the seventh day cycle before the ones that traveled west because they would see the sun sooner and sooner and keep the 7th day cycle BEFORE it came around to the ones that traveled west.

          Lets say that both of them started their trips on the First Day of the Week CYCLE, and they took the SAME time to arrive at the meeting place overseas. When one boat travels two hours east of the garden of Eden and the other travels two hours west this puts 4 hours difference between them for keeping the 7th day cycle. In other words the ones traveling east will keep the 2nd day of the week cycle first and then it will come around to the ones traveling West 4 hours later. This is an absolute. When they continue traveling east and west it will go to eight hours difference then 12 hours difference when they get halfway around the globe and then another 12 hours difference when they meet here in the USA which is NOW A TOTAL OF 24 hours difference in their cycles. This also is an absolute. They are both counting true time cycles and the ones that traveled east would have seen one more evening and morning cycle than the ones that traveled west if they arrive here at the same time. Therefore the ones that traveled east will keep the seventh day cycle a nd the ones that traveled West will have to wait 24 hours for their seventh day cycle to get around to them. Again, the artificial man-made International Date Line wil l put them on same DATE because the ones traveling West will gain a extra day when they cross the date line but the day they gang is not a real day and they are still a full 24-hour cycle behind the ones that traveled east, no matter what they are told. People tend to believe anything.
           
          It’s like someone eaten a bowl of ice cream And When They Cross the International Date Line someone tells them they did not eat the ice cream because across the dateline. The dateline does not change true time and it has nothing to do with the true cycle and just because they say that when you cross it you gain a 24-hour day/cycle is really a joke to the true time keeping. This problem goes away when you put the moon back in the picture because originally it set the date in Scripture and when Julius Caesar done away with it they had to create another date setter to put people on the same DATE but they are still not on the same CYCLE.



           Brother Arnold www.lunarsabbath. info


          -----Original Me ssage-----
          From: BYT YHWH <bytyhwh@yahoo. com>
          To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
          Sent: Wed, Jul 22, 2009 8:57 pm
          Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle

           
          Gilberto,

          actually I have already explained that OVER AND OVER AGAIN, but simply it does NOT match with your own interpretation, and point of view.

          "Shut on Six Working Days" simply means "Closed during the Six Working Days".

          But, as I have repeadly explained, SOME of YHWH (Yahweh)'s Set Apart Feast Days fall on the Six Working Days.

          Even with your "lunar only scenario", you have AT LEAST three Feast Days falling on the Six Wor king Days - that is, the 7th Day of Unleavened (Bread), and the Day of Pentecost, and the Day of Atonements (Coverings).

          Would the Eastern Gate of YHWH (Yahweh)'s Temple be Shut, or Open on such Set Apart Feast Days, that fall on the Six Working Days?

          The Scriptures are very clear: AT LEAST Some of YHWH (Yahweh)'s Set Apart Feast Days fall on one of the Six Working Days, making them Annual Sabbaths.
           
          Now, Please, show your human reasoning here, trying to defend your own interpretation, and point of view, that is SCRIPTURALLY without defense, and lets see if it is better or worst than Arnold's, or my human reasoning...

          May YHWH (Yahweh) Open your mind, heart, eyes, and ears to Understand It!

          In The Name of YHWSU (Yahshua), The TRUE MashiYah (MessiYah),

          Carlo Tognoni

          BYT YHWH
          www.byt-yhwh. org

          ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====





          From: Gilbert Ventura <gilven55@yahoo. com>
          To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 6:51:25 PM
          Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle

           
          Carlo,
               You have NOT yet explain to everybody the meaning of the phrase "....SHUT ON SIX WORKING DAYS".I BET YOUR HUMAN REASONING IS WORST THAN Arnold.

          --- On Sun, 7/19/09, BYT YHWH <bytyhwh@yahoo. com> wrote:

          From: BYT YHWH <bytyhwh@yahoo. com>
          Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle
          To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
          Date: Sunday, 19 July, 2009, 12:14 AM

           
          Shalom Everyone!

          That is another Proof that following faulty human reasoning we are lead to ridiculous conclusions.

          Here below Arnold uses faulty human reasoning, trying to "prove" the "traditional" Seventh Day cycle Sabbath to be "mathematically impossible".

          But, in his faultly human reasoning, Arnold forgot to think that ONE Daily Cycle, that is, One Day (Light Time) AND One Night (Darkness Time), lasts 24 Hours, and NOT more than=2 0that time!

          So that, even if two people would travel one to East, and the other to West, starting, for example, from the Middle East (where the Garden of Eden was placed), and they would meet one another overseas, where U.S.A. are currently located, they would be on the SAME Day, and NOT one Day apart one from another.

          Lets make a simple example, to show that.

          Lets say that they would make a trip with two boats, one going to East, and the other going to West, and they would meet overseas, two Weeks later.

          Lets20say that both of them started their trips on the First Day of the Week, and they took the SAME time to arrive at the meeting place overseas, two Weeks later.

          BOTH of them would arrive on the Seventh Day Sabbath, two Weeks later, and NOT on two different Days.

          End of the Story!

          And please, Arnold, stop such ridiculous attempts to discredit the Scriptural Weekly Cycle, that is according to YHWH (Yahweh)'s Commandment to Work Six Days, and to Rest and Set Apart the Seventh Day as the Sabbath to YHWH (Yahweh) (EXODUS 20:8-11).

          May YHWH (Yahweh) Open your mind, heart, eyes, and ears to Understand It!

          In The Name of YHWSU (Yahshua), The TRUE MashiYah (MessiYah),

          Carlo Tognoni

          BYT YHWH
          www.byt-yhwh. org

          ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= =========20= ==




           


          From: Brother Arnold <YHWHPeople@aol. com>
          To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
          Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 4:53:22 AM
          Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle

           
          The traditional seventh day cycle Sabbath is mathematically impossible.
           
          One of the ways the traditional Roman 7 Day Cycle Error can be exposed is by using common sense and math.. The traditional cycle cannot stand the math test because if the Roman uninterrupted cycle count of counting one through seven over and over is correct, people in the United States would AND SHOULD be Keeping the Seventh Day Sabbath on TWO different days, i.e. Friday and Saturday. The reason for this is because when men began to be fruitful and multiply on the Earth and migrated east and We st around the Earth, their descendents would be on a different cycle when they met each other in the United States even though neither group missed a beat in their 7 day cycle count. This is an absolute.
           
          Here’s the way it works. The descendents of Adam traveling east would actually gain time and would see the Sun Sooner and sooner each day and the tribes traveling West would actually lose time because they are going away from the sun and when they had migrated 4 or 5 hours east and West of the garden of Eden, Adams descendents traveling East would keep Saturday 8 or 10 hours before the ones traveling west. There would be no problem so far and this fact would go unnoticed but when they bumped into each other in the United States the tribe that migrated east would be keeping Saturday 24 hours BEFORE the tribes that traveled west and are now a day behind the ones that migrated east. They would be a whole day apart and when the sun rose on both Tribes it would be Saturday the 7th day of the week/cycle to one tribe and Friday and they 6th day of the week/cycle to the other because the ones that had traveled west would not count the day until it came around to them. Remember the ones that traveled west were keeping the seventh day cycle AFTER the ones that traveled east and when they meet in American they would still keep the seventh day cycle AFTER the ones that traveled west and it would now be 24 hours later. This is an absolute and cannot be intelligently argued against. This is why the Heavenly Father never instituted the traditional cycle because it will not work. Please meditate on this because your life depends on it.
           
          The above conclusively proves the Roman calendar and=2 0its cycle wrong. This problem goes away with Lunar Weeks and Lunar Sabbaths.
           
          Someone might argue that the sons of Adam that traveled east should give up their seventh day cycle that they inherited from their fathers and get on the cycle with the sons of Adam which traveled west. They could argue that those that traveled east were creating a cycle that did not belong but on the other hand the ones that traveled east could argue that the ones that travel West lost a cycle that did belong.  Remember both groups are sons of Adam and both seventh day cycle would be valid as if Adam himself had traveled east or west. Adam lived to be 969 years old and could have migrated east or west to the United States either one of the tribes and it would still be the wee kly Seventh day no matter which way he travel.
           
          Someone might argue that the Sabbath should begin in Jerusalem and go around the Earth but the problem with this is the Sabbath was not made for Jerusalem, the Sabbath was made for man and no matter which way they traveled, east or west, they were to keep the Sabbath day.
           
          If people would only admit the Scripture teaches in Ezekiel 46:1 that the new moon worship days are not counted in with the six working days when counting out the week, this would make the weeks lunar weeks instead of the traditional solar week and the weekly Seventh day of the week will always fall on the eighth, 15th, 22nd, and 29th days of the month. The weeks to Pentecost are lunar weeks because the first day of the first week to Pentecost each and every year is always on the 16th which is the Morrow after the Sabbath or the Morrow after the 7th day/15th of the preceding week.

          The people who count the weeks to Pentecost from the Morrow after the 15th, the first two weeks will be lunar weeks becaus e the 15th day of the month/moon is lunar itself each and every year. The first week to Pentecost will be from the 16th through the 22nd, making the 22nd the FIRST seventh day of the lunar week to Pentecost and the next complete week to Pentecost will be from the 23rd through the 29th, making the 29th the seventh day of that week and the SECOND Sabbath complete to Pentecost. This is an absolute every year and this is the way the the Scripture teaches to count the weeks to Pentecost and the Septuagint makes it very clear, Leviticus 23 .
           
          Here’s another interesting fact that cannot be intelligently denied.. Now if the 16th day is the FIRST DAY of the week in the first month each year, this makes the 15th day the SEVENTH DAY of the week in the first month each year. The 15th is actually called the seventh day in Deuteronomy 5:12 – 15 which reads,
          “De 5:12 Keep the Sabbath day to sanctify it, as YHWH thy Mighty One20hath commanded thee.
          De 5:13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
          De 5:14 But the SEVENTH DAY is the SABBATH of YHWH thy Mighty One: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
          De 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that YHWH thy Mighty One brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore YHWH thy Mighty One commanded thee to keep the Sabbath day.”

          Notice the Sabbath day is referring to the seventh day of the week and it was the seventh day Sabbath that they were given rest from Egypt’s bondage according to Numbers 33:3 and o ther Scriptures which teach that it was the 15th day that they were delivered out of Egypt’s bondage. The 15th is also referred to as the SEVENTH DAY in Exodus 13:6 where it says that the CHAG is in the SEVENTH DAY and it cannot be talking about the seventh day of the feast because the seventh day of the feast is never called a CHAG, but the 15th is called the CHAG in many places such as Leviticus 23:6, Psalms 81:3 etc. see my article on this at
          http://www.lun ar.sabbath.info


          The Septuagint taught Lunar Weeks which ended in a Lunar Seventh day. According to Scholars, the Septuagint was the Bible of the Apostles and early Christians. Most of the Old Testament quotes found in the New Testament were direct quote from the Septuagint. These were q uote from the Messiah himself, not to mention His Apostles who wrote the New Testament. They say the New Testament Christian converts were Greek speaking people and read from the Septuagint as did the Greek speaking Jews.. Most scholars and even The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia admits that the weeks were originally by the phases of the moon/lunar. A person really has to be blinded by tradition not to investigate this subject. Especially when you cannot find a pinpointed weekly Sabbath that cannot be intelligently argued against that was on any other day than by the moon.
           
          Some argue that they count Pentecost from a supposedly weekly Sabbath that falls within the days of unleavened bread. There is absolutely no Historical evidence whatsoever of anyo ne using such a count during the Temple times. There is plenty of scriptural and Historical evidence during the Temple times were they counted lunar weeks to Pentecost. The Septuagint Scriptures in Leviticus 23 taught this count and we have eyewitness testimony from people who live during the time the Temple was standing, that this is the way it was done. Both Josephus and Philo who lived at this time testify that this is the way it was done. All of these were during the Temple times and there is not even one piece of evidence to the contrary that goes back t o Temple times. Some try to say the Mishnah and Jewish Talmud which discusses the traditional Sabbath but neither of these goes back to Temple times. They were written 200 to 500 years after the fact. You have absolutely nothing that was written during Temple times supporting solar weeks to Pentecost. Everything support lunar weeks to Pentecost. People will still believe what they want to believe and follow the traditions of men without any scriptural or Historical evidence to support their belief. There are more loyal to their denomination, organiz ation, preacher, etc, than they are to the word of the Almighty. May He have mercy on their soul before it is everlasting too late.
           
           
           
           
           
           
           


           Brother Arnold www.lunarsabbath. info


          Try cool new emoticons, skins, plus more space for friends. Download Yahoo! Messenger Philippines now.
        • BYT YHWH
          Arnold, using your typical statement, this is an absolute that cannot be intelligently denied , I have to very frankly and sincerely say what you have only
          Message 4 of 22 , Aug 20, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Arnold,

            using your "typical" statement, "this is an absolute that cannot be intelligently denied", I have to very frankly and sincerely say what you have only demonstrated is to be a liar and a deceiver, since your human reasoning against the Scriptural Weekly Cycle is EXACTLY applicable ALSO against your "lunar weeks"!

            Then, such people traveling all around the globe would be ALSO on TWO "lunar sabbaths", AT LEAST for one "lunar month", and when your method "resets the lunar weeks", they would keep ALSO TWO or THREE "lunar sabbaths" in a row!?!

            WHAT A MESS!?! WHAT A CONFUSION (BABYLON)!?!

            The TRUTH, instead, is that there is the Scriptural International Date Line, that simply establishes when a Daily Cycle (DATE) ends, and when the Next Daily Cycle (DATE) begins, and a Daily Cycle (DATE) is 24 Hours, and NOT MORE THAN THAT, so that ALL people on the Earth can be ONLY ON ONE DAILY CYCLE (DATE)!

            The ONLY Difference is that Daily Cycle (DATE) can arrive sooner or later, depending from the Positions where people are, so that people towards East would begin the Daily Cycle (DATE) before, while people towards West would begin the Daily Cycle (DATE) after, because of the movement of the Earth, creating Days, and Nights, because of the Sun.

            May YHWH (Yahweh) Open your mind, heart, eyes, and ears to Understand It!

            In The Name of YHWSU (Yahshua), The TRUE MashiYah (MessiYah),

            Carlo Tognoni

            BYT YHWH
            www.byt-yhwh.org

            ==========================================================================






            From: Brother Arnold <YHWHPeople@aol..com>
            To: TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:44:28 AM
            Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle

             

            The traditional uninterrupted Seventh day cycle conclusively proven unscriptural.
             
            I have demonstrated in another article how that when men began to multiply on the Earth and migrated east and west they would be on TWO separate day cycles when they meet on the outside of the Earth even if it took them 1000 years and neither of them missed a beat in their count. This is an absolute that cannot be intelligently argued against and this is extremely problematic for the traditional uninterrupted cycle Sabbath keeper because the Scripture only teaches ONE seventh day of the week.
             
            When men discovered this problem which was caused by Julius Caesar when he booted the moon out of the calendar contrary to Genesis 1:14 and Psalms 104:19 thinking to change times and laws as Daniel prophesied and came up with the solar only month it created major problems that was discovered when men begin sailing around the Earth. They tried to solve it by inventing an imaginary line called the International Date Line which would somehow magically add or subtract one full day, depending on which way you are traveling, when you cross it. This supposedly put the travelers back on the same day of the solar month which was created by Julius Caesar in 46 BC but in reality they are in two different days of the solar month and solar week. Just saying you lose or gained a day when crossing the imaginary man made date line does not make it true, the seven day cycle still exists and there are TW O of them with the traditional count and this alone proves the traditional seven day cycle is unscriptural.
             
            Not only will they have TWO back to back Seventh days there will be TWO separate counts to Pentecost for those who count from the Morrow after the traditional weekly Sabbath which is also unscriptural because the Scripture teaches only one Pentecost and with the traditional cycle some would begin the count from the Morrow after Saturday and the others from the Morrow after Sunday 24-hour later=2 0and they would both be right according to the traditional uninterrupted cycle Sabbath. Oh what a tangled web we weave when trying to justify our error instead of confessing it and then repenting and forsaking it. What a mess!
             
            For those who still don’t believe you will be in TWO separate days with the traditional count you can go to any encyclopedia, NASA, or to the US Naval Observatory at
            http://www.usno. navy.mil/ USNO/astronomica l-applications/ astronomical- information- center/inter- date-line for confirmation or you can actually fly around the Earth keeping up with the evenings and mornings/days never missing a count and when you return you will be on a different day than the people you left behind.
             
            With the lunar months and lunar weeks this problem goes away because when they meet a 1000 years later after slowly migrating around the Earth East and West they will look up and be in the same day of the lunar month and day of the lunar week because with the creation calendar it will self adjust and you need no man-made date line and with the creation calendar even if they were not  on the same day of the month and week when they meet they certainly would be when the next new moon comes around but with the traditional cycle Sabbath they will never ever be in the same cycle for Pentecost or the weekly Sabbath unless one of them goes back around the Earth. Again, this is an absolute that cannot be intelligently argued against and the next step is to turn from the tradition of men to the Scripture because the day of the Almighty is near.


             Brother Arnold www.lunarsabbath. info


            -----Original Message-----
            From: Brother Arnold <YHWHPeople@aol. com>
            To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
            Sent: Wed, Jul 22, 2009 11:29 pm
            Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle

            =0 D
             
              Shalom Carlo and Everyone!


            If two people would travel one to East, and the other to West, starting, for example, from the Middle East (where the Garden of Eden was placed), and they would meet one another overseas, where U.S.A. are currently located, they would have TWO 7th Day CYCLES on TWO separate days, one Day apart one from another. This is a mathematical certainty that cannot be intelligently argued against.

            Lets make a simple example, to show that.

            Lets say that they would make a trip with two boats, one going to East, and the other going to West, would they meet overseas on the SAME CYCLE??? Absolutely not!
             
            The20reason for this is because the artificial man-made International Date Line will put them on the SAME DATE but there will still be in 2 separate seventh day CYCLES. In=2 0other words the ones that traveled east will gang time and keep the seventh day cycle before the ones that traveled west because they would see the sun sooner and sooner and keep the 7th day cycle BEFORE it came around to the ones that traveled west.

            Lets say that both of them started their trips on the First Day of the Week CYCLE, and they took the SAME time to arrive at the meeting place overseas. When one boat travels two hours east of the garden of Eden and the other travels two hours west this puts 4 hours difference between them for keeping the 7th day cycle. In other words the ones traveling east will keep the 2nd day of the week cycle first and then it will come around to the ones traveling West 4 hours later. This is an absolute. When they continue traveling east and west it will go to eight hours difference then 12 hours difference when they get halfway around the globe and then another 12 hours difference when they meet here in the USA which is NOW A TOTAL OF 24 hours difference in their cycles. This also is an absolute. They are both counting true time cycles and the ones that traveled east would have seen one more evening and morning cycle than the ones that traveled west if they arrive here at the same time. Therefore the ones that traveled east will keep the seventh day cycle a nd the ones that traveled West will have to wait 24 hours for their seventh day cycle to get around to them. Again, the artificial man-made International Date Line wil l put them on same DATE because the ones traveling West will gain a extra day when they cross the date line but the day they gang is not a real day and they are still a full 24-hour cycle behind the ones that traveled east, no matter what they are told. People tend to believe anything.
             
            It’s like someone eaten a bowl of ice cream And When They Cross the International Date Line someone tells them they did not eat the ice cream because across the dateline.. The dateline does not change true time and it has nothing to do with the true cycle and just because they say that when you cross it you gain a 24-hour day/cycle is really a joke to the true time keeping. This problem goes away when you put the moon back in the picture because originally it set the date in Scripture and when Julius Caesar done away with it they had to create another date setter to put people on the same DATE but they are still not on the same CYCLE.



             Brother Arnold www.lunarsabbath. info


            -----Original Me ssage-----
            From: BYT YHWH <bytyhwh@yahoo. com>
            To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
            Sent: Wed, Jul 22, 2009 8:57 pm
            Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle

             
            Gilberto,

            actually I have already explained that OVER AND OVER AGAIN, but simply it does NOT match with your own interpretation, and point of view.

            "Shut on Six Working Days" simply means "Closed during the Six Working Days".

            But, as I have repeadly explained, SOME of YHWH (Yahweh)'s Set Apart Feast Days fall on the Six Working Days.

            Even with your "lunar only scenario", you have AT LEAST three Feast Days falling on the Six Wor king Days - that is, the 7th Day of Unleavened (Bread), and the Day of Pentecost, and the Day of Atonements (Coverings).

            Would the Eastern Gate of YHWH (Yahweh)'s Temple be Shut, or Open on such Set Apart Feast Days, that fall on the Six Working Days?

            The Scriptures are very clear: AT LEAST Some of YHWH (Yahweh)'s Set Apart Feast Days fall on one of the Six Working Days, making them Annual Sabbaths.
             
            Now, Please, show your human reasoning here, trying to defend your own interpretation, and point of view, that is SCRIPTURALLY without defense, and lets see if it is better or worst than Arnold's, or my human reasoning...

            May YHWH (Yahweh) Open your mind, heart, eyes, and ears to Understand It!

            In The Name of YHWSU (Yahshua), The TRUE MashiYah (MessiYah),

            Carlo Tognoni

            BYT YHWH
            www.byt-yhwh.. org

            ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====





            From: Gilbert Ventura <gilven55@yahoo. com>
            To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 6:51:25 PM
            Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle

             
            Carlo,
                 You have NOT yet explain to everybody the meaning of the phrase "....SHUT ON SIX WORKING DAYS".I BET YOUR HUMAN REASONING IS WORST THAN Arnold.

            --- On Sun, 7/19/09, BYT YHWH <bytyhwh@yahoo. com> wrote:

            From: BYT YHWH <bytyhwh@yahoo. com>
            Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle
            To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
            Date: Sunday, 19 July, 2009, 12:14 AM

             
            Shalom Everyone!

            That is another Proof that following faulty human reasoning we are lead to ridiculous conclusions.

            Here below Arnold uses faulty human reasoning, trying to "prove" the "traditional" Seventh Day cycle Sabbath to be "mathematically impossible".

            But, in his faultly human reasoning, Arnold forgot to think that ONE Daily Cycle, that is, One Day (Light Time) AND One Night (Darkness Time), lasts 24 Hours, and NOT more than=2 0that time!

            So that, even if two people would travel one to East, and the other to West, starting, for example, from the Middle East (where the Garden of Eden was placed), and they would meet one another overseas, where U.S.A. are currently located, they would be on the SAME Day, and NOT one Day apart one from another.

            Lets make a simple example, to show that.

            Lets say that they would make a trip with two boats, one going to East, and the other going to West, and they would meet overseas, two Weeks later.

            Lets20say that both of them started their trips on the First Day of the Week, and they took the SAME time to arrive at the meeting place overseas, two Weeks later.

            BOTH of them would arrive on the Seventh Day Sabbath, two Weeks later, and NOT on two different Days.

            End of the Story!

            And please, Arnold, stop such ridiculous attempts to discredit the Scriptural Weekly Cycle, that is according to YHWH (Yahweh)'s Commandment to Work Six Days, and to Rest and Set Apart the Seventh Day as the Sabbath to YHWH (Yahweh) (EXODUS 20:8-11).

            May YHWH (Yahweh) Open your mind, heart, eyes, and ears to Understand It!

            In The Name of YHWSU (Yahshua), The TRUE MashiYah (MessiYah),

            Carlo Tognoni

            BYT YHWH
            www.byt-yhwh. org

            ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= =========20= ==




             


            From: Brother Arnold <YHWHPeople@aol. com>
            To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
            Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 4:53:22 AM
            Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Re: 7th day cycle

             
            The traditional seventh day cycle Sabbath is mathematically impossible.
             
            One of the ways the traditional Roman 7 Day Cycle Error can be exposed is by using common sense and math.. The traditional cycle cannot stand the math test because if the Roman uninterrupted cycle count of counting one through seven over and over is correct, people in the United States would AND SHOULD be Keeping the Seventh Day Sabbath on TWO different days, i.e. Friday and Saturday. The reason for this is because when men began to be fruitful and multiply on the Earth and migrated east and We st around the Earth, their descendents would be on a different cycle when they met each other in the United States even though neither group missed a beat in their 7 day cycle count. This is an absolute.
             
            Here’s the way it works. The descendents of Adam traveling east would actually gain time and would see the Sun Sooner and sooner each day and the tribes traveling West would actually lose time because they are going away from the sun and when they had migrated 4 or 5 hours east and West of the garden of Eden, Adams descendents traveling East would keep Saturday 8 or 10 hours before the ones traveling west. There would be no problem so far and this fact would go unnoticed but when they bumped into each other in the United States the tribe that migrated east would be keeping Saturday 24 hours BEFORE the tribes that traveled west and are now a day behind the ones that migrated east. They would be a whole day apart and when the sun rose on both Tribes it would be Saturday the 7th day of the week/cycle to one tribe and Friday and they 6th day of the week/cycle to the other because the ones that had traveled west would not count the day until it came around to them. Remember the ones that traveled west were keeping the seventh day cycle AFTER the ones that traveled east and when they meet in American they would still keep the seventh day cycle AFTER the ones that traveled west and it would now be 24 hours later. This is an absolute and cannot be intelligently argued against. This is why the Heavenly Father never instituted the traditional cycle because it will not work. Please meditate on this because your life depends on it.
             
            The above conclusively proves the Roman calendar and=2 0its cycle wrong. This problem goes away with Lunar Weeks and Lunar Sabbaths.
             
            Someone might argue that the sons of Adam that traveled east should give up their seventh day cycle that they inherited from their fathers and get on the cycle with the sons of Adam which traveled west. They could argue that those that traveled east were creating a cycle that did not belong but on the other hand the ones that traveled east could argue that the ones that travel West lost a cycle that did belong.  Remember both groups are sons of Adam and both seventh day cycle would be valid as if Adam himself had traveled east or west. Adam lived to be 969 years old and could have migrated east or west to the United States either one of the tribes and it would still be the wee kly Seventh day no matter which way he travel.
             
            Someone might argue that the Sabbath should begin in Jerusalem and go around the Earth but the problem with this is the Sabbath was not made for Jerusalem, the Sabbath was made for man and no matter which way they traveled, east or west, they were to keep the Sabbath day.
             
            If people would only admit the Scripture teaches in Ezekiel 46:1 that the new moon worship days are not counted in with the six working days when counting out the week, this would make the weeks lunar weeks instead of the traditional solar week and the weekly Seventh day of the week will always fall on the eighth, 15th, 22nd, and 29th days of the month. The weeks to Pentecost are lunar weeks because the first day of the first week to Pentecost each and every year is always on the 16th which is the Morrow after the Sabbath or the Morrow after the 7th day/15th of the preceding week.

            The people who count the weeks to Pentecost from the Morrow after the 15th, the first two weeks will be lunar weeks becaus e the 15th day of the month/moon is lunar itself each and every year. The first week to Pentecost will be from the 16th through the 22nd, making the 22nd the FIRST seventh day of the lunar week to Pentecost and the next complete week to Pentecost will be from the 23rd through the 29th, making the 29th the seventh day of that week and the SECOND Sabbath complete to Pentecost. This is an absolute every year and this is the way the the Scripture teaches to count the weeks to Pentecost and the Septuagint makes it very clear, Leviticus 23 .
             
            Here’s another interesting fact that cannot be intelligently denied.. Now if the 16th day is the FIRST DAY of the week in the first month each year, this makes the 15th day the SEVENTH DAY of the week in the first month each year. The 15th is actually called the seventh day in Deuteronomy 5:12 – 15 which reads,
            “De 5:12 Keep the Sabbath day to sanctify it, as YHWH thy Mighty One20hath commanded thee.
            De 5:13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
            De 5:14 But the SEVENTH DAY is the SABBATH of YHWH thy Mighty One: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
            De 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that YHWH thy Mighty One brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore YHWH thy Mighty One commanded thee to keep the Sabbath day.”

            Notice the Sabbath day is referring to the seventh day of the week and it was the seventh day Sabbath that they were given rest from Egypt’s bondage according to Numbers 33:3 and o ther Scriptures which teach that it was the 15th day that they were delivered out of Egypt’s bondage. The 15th is also referred to as the SEVENTH DAY in Exodus 13:6 where it says that the CHAG is in the SEVENTH DAY and it cannot be talking about the seventh day of the feast because the seventh day of the feast is never called a CHAG, but the 15th is called the CHAG in many places such as Leviticus 23:6, Psalms 81:3 etc. see my article on this at
            http://www.lun ar.sabbath.info


            The Septuagint taught Lunar Weeks which ended in a Lunar Seventh day. According to Scholars, the Septuagint was the Bible of the Apostles and early Christians. Most of the Old Testament quotes found in the New Testament were direct quote from the Septuagint. These were q uote from the Messiah himself, not to mention His Apostles who wrote the New Testament. They say the New Testament Christian converts were Greek speaking people and read from the Septuagint as did the Greek speaking Jews.. Most scholars and even The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia admits that the weeks were originally by the phases of the moon/lunar. A person really has to be blinded by tradition not to investigate this subject. Especially when you cannot find a pinpointed weekly Sabbath that cannot be intelligently argued against that was on any other day than by the moon.
             
            Some argue that they count Pentecost from a supposedly weekly Sabbath that falls within the days of unleavened bread. There is absolutely no Historical evidence whatsoever of anyo ne using such a count during the Temple times. There is plenty of scriptural and Historical evidence during the Temple times were they counted lunar weeks to Pentecost. The Septuagint Scriptures in Leviticus 23 taught this count and we have eyewitness testimony from people who live during the time the Temple was standing, that this is the way it was done. Both Josephus and Philo who lived at this time testify that this is the way it was done. All of these were during the Temple times and there is not even one piece of evidence to the contrary that goes back t o Temple times. Some try to say the Mishnah and Jewish Talmud which discusses the traditional Sabbath but neither of these goes back to Temple times. They were written 200 to 500 years after the fact. You have absolutely nothing that was written during Temple times supporting solar weeks to Pentecost. Everything support lunar weeks to Pentecost. People will still believe what they want to believe and follow the traditions of men without any scriptural or Historical evidence to support their belief. There are more loyal to their denomination, organiz ation, preacher, etc, than they are to the word of the Almighty. May He have mercy on their soul before it is everlasting too late.
             
             
             
             
             
             
             


             Brother Arnold www.lunarsabbath. info


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