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Father and Son: Are They One and the Same Person?

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  • BYT YHWH
    Father and Son Are They One and the Same Person? by Voy Wilks 7/15/92   Mt.20:23 - Father And Son - two persons. Jn.3:16 - For Yahweh so loved the world that
    Message 1 of 2 , May 2 6:56 AM
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      Father and Son

      Are They One and the Same Person?

      by Voy Wilks

      7/15/92

       

      Mt.20:23 - Father And Son - two persons.

      Jn.3:16 - For Yahweh so loved the world that He gave, not Himself, but His Son.

      Jn.3:17 - Yahweh sent His Son into the world. Did Yahweh send Himself?

      Jn.5:37 - You have not heard or seen the Father (but they had seen and heard the Son) two different persons.

      Jn.5:37 - There are TWO witnesses - (1) the Father and (2) the Son (two persons).

      Jn.5:43 - Yahshua came in the Father's name, but they did not receive him.

      Jn.8:18 - There are TWO witnesses; the Father and the Son (two persons).

      Jn.8:19 - You know neither me nor my Father (two persons).

      Jn.10:29 - The Father is greater than all (others).

      Jn.12:28 - Yahshua said, "Father, glorify thy Name." A voice answered. Was it Yahshua answering himself?

      Jn.14:1 - You believe in Yahweh, believe ALSO in me (two persons).

      Jn.14:25 - My words are not mine, but His who sent me (two persons: sender/sent).

      Jn.14:28 - My FATHER is greater than I - truly (two persons; Father & Son).

      Jn.15:1 - I am the vine. My FATHER is the vine dresser; two different parties.

      Jn.15:9 - The Father loved me, so I haved loved you (three parties; Father, Son & disciples).

      Jn.15:10 - If you love me you will keep my commandments just as I have kept my Father's commandments.

      Jn.15:24 - They hated BOTH me AND my Father (two persons).

      Jn.16:3 - You have not known the Father nor me (two parties; Father & Son).

      Jn.16:28 - I came down from the Father and go to the Father. Did Yahshua go to himself?

      Jn.16:32 - I am not alone, for the Father is with me (two persons).

      Jn.17:1 - Yahshua prayed to the Father. Did he pray to himself?

      Jn.17:3 - ETERNAL LIFE is knowing you, the ONLY TRUE EL, AND Yahshua Messiah whom you sent. Do we want eternal life? If so, believe in the Father and the Son (two persons).

      Jn.17:4 - I glorified you on earth, and finished the work you gave me to do (the Boss & the workman).

      Jn.17:5 - Now Father, glorify me. Two parties; one is superior, one inferior).

      Jn.17:11 - Father, keep my disciples, that they may be ONE AS WE ARE ONE. Comment: Yahshua and his Father were "one" just as the 12 Apostles should be "one;" that is, "one in purpose and doctrine.

      Jn.17:18 - As YOU sent ME, so I send them into the world. Three parties: You, me, and them.

      Jn.17:21 - That they may all be one in US; you and I. Us equals two or more persons.

      Jn.17:22 - That the Apostles may be one as WE are ONE. Were the Apostles only one person, rather than 12 persons? Just as the Apostles were 12 individual persons, but with one goal, so the Heavenly Father and His Son were two individual persons with one goal.

      Acts 2:24* - Here we have TWO persons: One ALIVE, one DEAD. Yahshua, being dead, could not raise himself. Who did? Yahweh raised him from the grave - from death (Acts 3:14,15).

      Acts 2:27 - Yahshua's soul was not left in hell; it too was raised from hell, from the grave, from the dead (vs.32). By whom? By the power of Yahweh (two persons are referred to here).

      Rom.1:3 - Declared to be the Son of Yahweh, ... by his resurrection from the dead (two persons).

      Gal.1:1 - Yahweh (the Father) raised Yahshua (the Son) from the dead. Yahshua was subject to death, but his Father was not subject to death.

      Eph.6:23 - Peace to all from Yahweh the Father AND from Yahshua. Two separate and distinct persons.

      Ph.1:2 - Grace from Yahweh our Father AND from Yahshua Messiah. Two persons.

      Col.1:1 - Paul an Apostle of Yahshua Messiah by the will of Yahweh (three persons: Paul, Yahweh, & Yahshua).

      1 Th.1:1 - Peace from Yahweh the Father AND the Savior Yahshua (two persons; Father and Son).

      2 Th.1:2 - Grace and peace from Yahweh the Father AND from Yahshua the Messiah (two persons).

      1 Tim.1:1 - Paul, an Apostle of Yahshua by command of Yahweh AND Yahshua Messiah (Two persons).

      1 Tim.1:2 - Grace, mercy and peace from Yahweh the Father, AND from Yahshua the Messiah.

      2 Tim.1:2 - Grace and peace from Yahweh the Father AND from Yahshua our Savior.

      Titus 1:1 - Paul, a servant of Yahweh, AND an Apostle of Yahshua.

      Phil.3 - Grace to you, and peace (1) from Yahweh our Father AND (2) from Yahshua Messiah.

      Heb.1:1 - Yahweh in times past spoke through the prophets, but in these last days spoke to us by His Son.

      Ja.1:1 - James, a servant of (1) Yahweh, and (2) Yahshua.

      1 Pe.1:3 - Blessed be the El and Father of our Savior, Yahshua.

      2 Pe.1:2 - Grace to you through the knowledge of Yahweh, AND of Yahshua Messiah (two parties).

      1 Jn.1:3 - Our fellowship is with the Father, AND with His Son Yahshua the Messiah.

      1 Jn.2:1 - If anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father, Yahshua the Messiah (Father Yahweh & advocate Yahshua (two persons).

      2 Jn.9 - Whoever abides in the doctrine of Messiah has BOTH the Father AND the Son.

      Jude 1 - Yahweh the Father, AND Yahshua Messiah (two persons).

      Jude 4 - Some deny the only Yahweh, AND our Savior Yahshua the Messiah (two persons).

      Rev.1:1* - The revelation which Yahweh gave to Himself. No. No. Yahweh did not give the revelation to himself, but to His Son Yahshua the Messiah.

      Rev.1:4* - A salutation from two persons: (1) Him who is, who was, and is to come (the eternal Yahweh);

      And from Yahshua Messiah the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, etc.(vs.5).

      Rev.1:9* - The word of Yahweh and the testimony of Yahshua: Two persons.

      Rev.2:8* - The words of him who died (Yahshua). It is impossible for the Father to die, therefore Yahshua is not one and the same person as the Father.

      Rev.2:26 - He who overcomes, I (Yahshua) will give power over the nations, even as I myself received power from my Father (vs.27). Two persons: The lesser receives power from the other.

      Rev.3:5 - Two persons: one of which will confess our names before the other. Who are these two? Father Yahweh and Son Yahshua.

      Rev.3:12* - He who overcomes, I (Yahshua,Vs.11) will make him a pillar in the temple of MY ELOAH; and write on him the name of MY ELOAH; etc. Yahshua's El was someone other than himself.

      Rev.3:14 - The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of El's creation. Two persons spoken of: (1) El the Creator, and (2) the one who was created - the True Witness (Yahshua).

      Rev.3:21 - Overcomers will sit with me (Yahshua) in my throne, as I overcame and sit with my Father in His throne. Two thrones and two persons are spoken of: (1) the Father and His throne, and (2) the Son and his throne.

      Rev.4:2-11 - He who sat upon the throne (Rev.4:2,3,9,10; 5:1,7; 19:4; 20:11; 21:5), was Yahweh, the Almighty El. Yahshua, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, the Lamb who was slain, and who opened the seven seals (Rev.5:2-10); was not Yahweh. He stood before the throne on which the Father (Yahweh) sat: two persons.

      Rev.5:11-13 - Praises were given to (1) Him who sits on the throne, and (2) the Lamb who was slain.

      Rev.6:16 - Hide us from (1) Him who sits on the throne, and (2) the wrath of the Lamb: Two persons.

      Rev.7:9,10 - Salvation belongs to our El, and to the Lamb: Two persons.

      Rev.7:17 - The Lamb, now on the throne, on his Father's right hand (Heb.1:3), will be their shepherd; and Yahweh will wipe away all tears: Two persons.

      Rev.11:15 - The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Yahweh, and of His Messiah: two persons.

      Rev.12:17 - Those who keep the commandments of Yahweh (first person), and who bear testimony of Yahshua (second person).

      Rev.14:1,4 - These have the Father's Name written in their foreheads (Greek - Father and Son's name), and are the firstfruits to Yahweh AND the Lamb.

      Rev.14:12 - Those who keep the commandments of Yahweh AND the faith of Yahshua: two persons.

      Rev.15:3* - Three separate persons are named here: Yahweh, the Lamb, and Moses. If Moss and Yahweh are not one and the same persons, why should we think the Lamb and Yahweh are one and the same person?

      Rev.19:4-7 - Four parties are named here: Yahweh the Almighty, The Lamb (Yahshua, the bridegroom), the bride of Messiah, a great multitude.

      Rev.20:6 - They will be priests (1) of Yahweh and (2) of the Messiah

      Rev.21:9,10 - Three parties: Yahweh, the Lamb, and the bride.

      Rev.21:22 - Two parties are named: Yahweh and the Lamb. These are the temple in the New Jerusalem.

      Rev.22:1 - The river of life flows from the throne of Yahweh AND of the Lamb (two persons).

      Rev.22:3 - No more curse will be there for the throne of Yahweh And of the Lamb will be in the city: two persons.

       

      Conclusion of these thoughts

       

      Brethren, to create only ONE person from these two:

      (1) Yahweh the Father (who sits on the throne), and

      (2) Yahshua the Son (the Messiah, the Lamb);

      Requires too much bending of terms, titles, names, logic, facts, and Scriptures. It is much better to accept the "sincere milk of the Word" (1 Pe.2:2), and "receive with meekness the engrafted Word" of Yahweh (Ja.1:21),

      "...which is able to instruct you for salvation through faith in the Messiah Yahshua. For all Scripture given by inspiration of Yahweh is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of Yahweh may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works" (2 Tim.3:16,17 KJV).

      One good work which we should continually promote is FAITH; Faith in the following:

      (1) Faith in the one Supreme Being who has LIVED ETERNALLY. His Name is Yahweh, the Creator of the heavens and the earh and all things in them.

      (2) Faith in Yahweh's Son; Yahshua the Messiah, who DIED to redeem sinners and arose again the third day. He was "declared to be the Son of Yahweh... by his resurrection from the dead (Rom.1:1-4).

       

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    • Bro. Isaac E. Kusuma
      Did Jesus Pray to Himself ? by J.L. Hall Jesus prayers open our understanding to the majesty of the Incarnation, for through them we grasp the divine-human
      Message 2 of 2 , May 2 9:38 AM
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        Did Jesus Pray to Himself ?

        by J.L. Hall

        Jesus' prayers open our understanding to the majesty of the Incarnation, for through them we grasp the divine-human relationship between God and His Son. Trinitarians often refer to statements Jesus made about His father, including those in His prayers, in an effort to prove that two persons were involved - who they identify as God the Son and God the Father. Since they reason that only persons and not natures communicate with each other, they regard the prayers as clear evidence that Jesus is a separate person from "the Father". Moreover, they cite Jesus' remarks about the Father as scriptural support for the Trinitarian theory. However, the prayers and remarks by Jesus destroy any concept of God as being a trinity of co-equal, and co-existent persons.

        The Bible clearly distinguishes God the Father from His Son. The Son was born in Bethlehem, but the eternal God does not know a beginning. The Son grew into maturity - physically, mentally, socially, and spiritually. He became tired, hungry, weary, sleepy - just as other men. Although He did not commit sin, He was tempted in all points as other men are tempted. He suffered from the trials in Jerusalem and died on the cross-just as the two thieves also died. God does not grow, nor can He die. These facts alone clearly distinguish the Son from the Father.

        The Bible tells us that the man Christ Jesus is the mediator between God and men (I Timothy 2:5). God is one, but a mediator serves more than one - He stood between God and mankind, effecting reconciliation. Only as a man could Jesus be our sacrifice, mediator, advocate, and high priest, acting on our behalf for our justification.

        Jesus offered Himself as a spotless lamb to God. Having lived as a human being, He offered the blood from His own body as the basis for the forgiveness of our sins. God did not die on the cross, nor did a divine eternal person offer blood from a divine eternal body. As the Son of God Jesus offered His own human body and His own earthly blood to God. The distinction between God and His Son can also be seen in the events after the crucifixion. God raised Jesus from the dead (Romans 10:9, Ephesians 1:20), gave Him all power in heaven and earth (Matthew 28:18), made Him Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36), and exalted His name to be above every name in heaven, on earth, and beneath the earth (Philippians 2:9). If the Son had been a co-equal person in the Godhead, this exaltation would not have been possible, for He would have had these positions and attributes from eternity. It is evident, therefore, that the Son of God was not a second divine person in the Godhead.

        Biblical facts reveal that Jesus lived as an authentic human being, that He did not merely assume the appearance of flesh (1). Therefore we should not be surprised that He prayed to God, seeking strength, guidance, and assurance. Moreover, we should not be surprised that Jesus had a will distinct from God (2), that He was truly human in spirit and soul, that He possessed a self-awareness of His humanity. We are not to suppose, however, that the human Jesus was not different from other people, for only He was begotten by the Holy Ghost. God was His immediate Father. He is rightfully called the "only begotten of the Father". His miraculous birth meant that His humanity was not tainted with the inherited sinful nature of the Fall, and through Him God could reveal Himself to us in redemptive love.

        Jesus' prayers to God the Father came from His human life, from the Incarnation. His prayers were not those of one divine person to another divine person of God, but those of an authentic human praying to the one true God. Prayer is based on an inferior being in supplication before a superior being. If the one praying is equal in power and authority to the one to whom he is praying, there is no genuine prayer (3). A conversation can be held between two equals, but an omnipotent person does not need to pray for help from an equal. Even intercessory prayers are meaningless unless the one praying is inferior to the one to whom he prays (4). If he were of equal power, knowledge, and wisdom, he could take care of the needs of those for whom he prays without asking help of another. If Jesus prayed as "God the Son", then God the Son is inferior to God the Father. But such inferiority destroys the Trinitarian theory (5) In submitting His will to the Father, Jesus confessed that His will was inferior: "Nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done" (Luke 22:42). He also stated the he did not seek to do His own will, but the will of the Father (John 5:30). If the Son had been an eternal divine person sharing equal power and knowledge, and wisdom with two other persons in the trinity, His will could not have been inferior to theirs.

        Jesus also stated that the Father was greater than He was: "My Father is greater than I" (John 14:28). It is absurd to say that this statement was made by a co-equal, eternal person in a trinity. Jesus was not speaking as God, but as the Son of God. Moreover, Jesus said, "the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever He doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise" (John 5:19). He credits the Father as the source of His works, as having the power to give life, and the authority to execute judgment (John 5:19-30). If the Son were an equal person in a trinity, He would have these attributes innately within himself; He could not derive them from a superior Father6.

        But we should not suppose that His humanity detracted from His deity. Jesus was not the incarnation of one person of a trinity, but he was the incarnation of the fullness of God - everything that God is was in Him. Thus the Bible says the "God was manifest in the flesh" (I Tim 3:16) and that "in Him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" (Colossians 2:9). As God incarnate, He identified Himself with the Father: "I and my Father are one" (John 10:30; 31-33);

        "If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him ... he that has seen me hath seen the Father" (John 14:7-9). As God with us, Jesus revealed His deity, identifying Himself as the God of Abraham and the One who revealed Himself to Moses as the I AM (John 8:24, 58).

        Jesus was both God and man. Although this union is sometimes referred to as God-man, this term may be misleading, for it may lead some people to think of Him as a demigod. On the other hand, it is equally incorrect to refer to Him as a anointed man. Although quantitatively God cannot be confined to a body, qualitatively he could reside in a body. Neither was Jesus a part-human, but he was man in the full sense. He was fully God and fully man. He possessed both the nature of God and the nature of man. He was aware that He was He was God and that He was man. He could and did speak and act as a man, and he could and did speak and act as God. As a man, he did not know the day or hour when the Son would come in power and glory (Mark 13:22); as God he forgave sins. Both His humanity and deity, although fused into His one being, remained distinct within His one personality. Admittedly, the Incarnation is a mystery beyond the comprehension of the human mind.

        Did Jesus pray to Himself ? No, not when we understand that Jesus was both God and man. In His deity Jesus did not pray, for God does not need to pray to anyone. As a man, Jesus prayed to God, not to his humanity (7). He did not pray to Himself as humanity, but to the one true God, to the same God who dwelled in His humanity and who also inhabits the universe. No further explanation is given, and none is needed. Does Jesus pray now since his exaltation ? The answer is no. He prayed in the days of His flesh (Hebrews 5:7). The work of the mediation was finished through His death on the cross at Calvary (Hebrews 9:14-15). There is no more sacrifice for sins, for once and for all time His blood was shed for the remission of sins (Hebrews 10:12). Unlike the Old Testament priests, he does not continually offer sacrifices for sins. There is no more offering, but there remains remission of sins for those who repent and are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ (Hebrews 10:18, Acts 2:38). His present role as intercessor consists not only of daily prayers but the application of the benefit of the cross to our lives (Romans 8:34; 1 John 1:7-9; 2:1-2).

        Jesus said, "At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: for the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and believed that I came out from God. I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again I leave the world and go to the Father" (John 16:26-28). Jesus does not pray now, but as God He hears and answers prayers prayed in His name.

        (This article appeared in the July issue of the Pentecostal Herald. The footnotes did not appear in the original, and were added by the editor)

        _______________________________

        1. That is, he was not a phantasm, as some Gnostics held. Jesus was quite real, from birth to death.

        2. As a man, while in the flesh

        3. In recent years, heretical teachers have often exploited a basic misconception of the nature of God and man in proposing a form and attitude of prayer not demonstrated by scripture. Examples include K. Copeland, F. Price, and others in the "Word of Faith" movement, such as graduates of Hagin's Rhema Bible school. In the imbalance resulting from improper understanding, these people have suggested both the "commanding of God" as "co-equal heirs with Jesus", and that Jesus was indeed, no different that "born-again man". In the editor's opinion, all such distortions clearly conclude in blasphemy.

        4. In the quality of inferiority, the author does not include voluntary submission. A prayer to a saint, or angel is therefor without Bible basis, except as a petition to one in authority. We are not led to believe that ascended saints have more authority that those who are flesh bound, on earth, thus there is no support given for prayers to heavenly powers, other than to God the Father, in the name of Jesus Christ.

        5. Thus we agree that the scriptures do not teach subordinatism, such as do neo-Arians.

        (6) Seeing numerous proofs that sonship is not in equality with fatherhood, the question must be asked, "In what dimensions then is the Son equal to the Father, if distinct, or does such equality only pertain to those aspects in which the Father and Son are indistinct ?"

        7. While some contend that this suggests that Jesus is schizophrenic, or split in personality, once again, it is important to understand the difference between nature and person. We are also reminded that Jesus, as man, set the pattern for all "followers of Jesus" who would through the new birth become and abide as sons, or children of God. His prayer illustrates the prayer of all who are of a human nature.

        _



        On 5/2/08, BYT YHWH <bytyhwh@...> wrote:

        Father and Son

        Are They One and the Same Person?

        by Voy Wilks

        7/15/92

         

        Mt.20:23 - Father And Son - two persons.

        Jn.3:16 - For Yahweh so loved the world that He gave, not Himself, but His Son.

        Jn.3:17 - Yahweh sent His Son into the world. Did Yahweh send Himself?

        Jn.5:37 - You have not heard or seen the Father (but they had seen and heard the Son) two different persons.

        Jn.5:37 - There are TWO witnesses - (1) the Father and (2) the Son (two persons).

        Jn.5:43 - Yahshua came in the Father's name, but they did not receive him.

        Jn.8:18 - There are TWO witnesses; the Father and the Son (two persons).

        Jn.8:19 - You know neither me nor my Father (two persons).

        Jn.10:29 - The Father is greater than all (others).

        Jn.12:28 - Yahshua said, "Father, glorify thy Name." A voice answered. Was it Yahshua answering himself?

        Jn.14:1 - You believe in Yahweh, believe ALSO in me (two persons).

        Jn.14:25 - My words are not mine, but His who sent me (two persons: sender/sent).

        Jn.14:28 - My FATHER is greater than I - truly (two persons; Father & Son).

        Jn.15:1 - I am the vine. My FATHER is the vine dresser; two different parties.

        Jn.15:9 - The Father loved me, so I haved loved you (three parties; Father, Son & disciples).

        Jn.15:10 - If you love me you will keep my commandments just as I have kept my Father's commandments.

        Jn.15:24 - They hated BOTH me AND my Father (two persons).

        Jn.16:3 - You have not known the Father nor me (two parties; Father & Son).

        Jn.16:28 - I came down from the Father and go to the Father. Did Yahshua go to himself?

        Jn.16:32 - I am not alone, for the Father is with me (two persons).

        Jn.17:1 - Yahshua prayed to the Father. Did he pray to himself?

        Jn.17:3 - ETERNAL LIFE is knowing you, the ONLY TRUE EL, AND Yahshua Messiah whom you sent. Do we want eternal life? If so, believe in the Father and the Son (two persons).

        Jn.17:4 - I glorified you on earth, and finished the work you gave me to do (the Boss & the workman).

        Jn.17:5 - Now Father, glorify me. Two parties; one is superior, one inferior).

        Jn.17:11 - Father, keep my disciples, that they may be ONE AS WE ARE ONE. Comment: Yahshua and his Father were "one" just as the 12 Apostles should be "one;" that is, "one in purpose and doctrine.

        Jn.17:18 - As YOU sent ME, so I send them into the world. Three parties: You, me, and them.

        Jn.17:21 - That they may all be one in US; you and I. Us equals two or more persons.

        Jn.17:22 - That the Apostles may be one as WE are ONE. Were the Apostles only one person, rather than 12 persons? Just as the Apostles were 12 individual persons, but with one goal, so the Heavenly Father and His Son were two individual persons with one goal.

        Acts 2:24* - Here we have TWO persons: One ALIVE, one DEAD. Yahshua, being dead, could not raise himself. Who did? Yahweh raised him from the grave - from death (Acts 3:14,15).

        Acts 2:27 - Yahshua's soul was not left in hell; it too was raised from hell, from the grave, from the dead (vs.32). By whom? By the power of Yahweh (two persons are referred to here).

        Rom.1:3 - Declared to be the Son of Yahweh, ... by his resurrection from the dead (two persons).

        Gal.1:1 - Yahweh (the Father) raised Yahshua (the Son) from the dead. Yahshua was subject to death, but his Father was not subject to death.

        Eph.6:23 - Peace to all from Yahweh the Father AND from Yahshua. Two separate and distinct persons.

        Ph.1:2 - Grace from Yahweh our Father AND from Yahshua Messiah. Two persons.

        Col.1:1 - Paul an Apostle of Yahshua Messiah by the will of Yahweh (three persons: Paul, Yahweh, & Yahshua).

        1 Th.1:1 - Peace from Yahweh the Father AND the Savior Yahshua (two persons; Father and Son).

        2 Th.1:2 - Grace and peace from Yahweh the Father AND from Yahshua the Messiah (two persons).

        1 Tim.1:1 - Paul, an Apostle of Yahshua by command of Yahweh AND Yahshua Messiah (Two persons).

        1 Tim.1:2 - Grace, mercy and peace from Yahweh the Father, AND from Yahshua the Messiah.

        2 Tim.1:2 - Grace and peace from Yahweh the Father AND from Yahshua our Savior.

        Titus 1:1 - Paul, a servant of Yahweh, AND an Apostle of Yahshua.

        Phil.3 - Grace to you, and peace (1) from Yahweh our Father AND (2) from Yahshua Messiah.

        Heb.1:1 - Yahweh in times past spoke through the prophets, but in these last days spoke to us by His Son.

        Ja.1:1 - James, a servant of (1) Yahweh, and (2) Yahshua.

        1 Pe.1:3 - Blessed be the El and Father of our Savior, Yahshua.

        2 Pe.1:2 - Grace to you through the knowledge of Yahweh, AND of Yahshua Messiah (two parties).

        1 Jn.1:3 - Our fellowship is with the Father, AND with His Son Yahshua the Messiah.

        1 Jn.2:1 - If anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father, Yahshua the Messiah (Father Yahweh & advocate Yahshua (two persons).

        2 Jn.9 - Whoever abides in the doctrine of Messiah has BOTH the Father AND the Son.

        Jude 1 - Yahweh the Father, AND Yahshua Messiah (two persons).

        Jude 4 - Some deny the only Yahweh, AND our Savior Yahshua the Messiah (two persons).

        Rev.1:1* - The revelation which Yahweh gave to Himself. No. No. Yahweh did not give the revelation to himself, but to His Son Yahshua the Messiah.

        Rev.1:4* - A salutation from two persons: (1) Him who is, who was, and is to come (the eternal Yahweh);

        And from Yahshua Messiah the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, etc.(vs.5).

        Rev.1:9* - The word of Yahweh and the testimony of Yahshua: Two persons.

        Rev.2:8* - The words of him who died (Yahshua). It is impossible for the Father to die, therefore Yahshua is not one and the same person as the Father.

        Rev.2:26 - He who overcomes, I (Yahshua) will give power over the nations, even as I myself received power from my Father (vs.27). Two persons: The lesser receives power from the other.

        Rev.3:5 - Two persons: one of which will confess our names before the other. Who are these two? Father Yahweh and Son Yahshua.

        Rev.3:12* - He who overcomes, I (Yahshua,Vs.11) will make him a pillar in the temple of MY ELOAH; and write on him the name of MY ELOAH; etc. Yahshua's El was someone other than himself.

        Rev.3:14 - The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of El's creation. Two persons spoken of: (1) El the Creator, and (2) the one who was created - the True Witness (Yahshua).

        Rev.3:21 - Overcomers will sit with me (Yahshua) in my throne, as I overcame and sit with my Father in His throne. Two thrones and two persons are spoken of: (1) the Father and His throne, and (2) the Son and his throne.

        Rev.4:2-11 - He who sat upon the throne (Rev.4:2,3,9,10; 5:1,7; 19:4; 20:11; 21:5), was Yahweh, the Almighty El. Yahshua, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, the Lamb who was slain, and who opened the seven seals (Rev.5:2-10); was not Yahweh. He stood before the throne on which the Father (Yahweh) sat: two persons.

        Rev.5:11-13 - Praises were given to (1) Him who sits on the throne, and (2) the Lamb who was slain.

        Rev.6:16 - Hide us from (1) Him who sits on the throne, and (2) the wrath of the Lamb: Two persons.

        Rev.7:9,10 - Salvation belongs to our El, and to the Lamb: Two persons.

        Rev.7:17 - The Lamb, now on the throne, on his Father's right hand (Heb.1:3), will be their shepherd; and Yahweh will wipe away all tears: Two persons.

        Rev.11:15 - The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Yahweh, and of His Messiah: two persons.

        Rev.12:17 - Those who keep the commandments of Yahweh (first person), and who bear testimony of Yahshua (second person).

        Rev.14:1,4 - These have the Father's Name written in their foreheads (Greek - Father and Son's name), and are the firstfruits to Yahweh AND the Lamb.

        Rev.14:12 - Those who keep the commandments of Yahweh AND the faith of Yahshua: two persons.

        Rev.15:3* - Three separate persons are named here: Yahweh, the Lamb, and Moses. If Moss and Yahweh are not one and the same persons, why should we think the Lamb and Yahweh are one and the same person?

        Rev.19:4-7 - Four parties are named here: Yahweh the Almighty, The Lamb (Yahshua, the bridegroom), the bride of Messiah, a great multitude.

        Rev.20:6 - They will be priests (1) of Yahweh and (2) of the Messiah

        Rev.21:9,10 - Three parties: Yahweh, the Lamb, and the bride.

        Rev.21:22 - Two parties are named: Yahweh and the Lamb. These are the temple in the New Jerusalem.

        Rev.22:1 - The river of life flows from the throne of Yahweh AND of the Lamb (two persons).

        Rev.22:3 - No more curse will be there for the throne of Yahweh And of the Lamb will be in the city: two persons.

         

        Conclusion of these thoughts

         

        Brethren, to create only ONE person from these two:

        (1) Yahweh the Father (who sits on the throne), and

        (2) Yahshua the Son (the Messiah, the Lamb);

        Requires too much bending of terms, titles, names, logic, facts, and Scriptures. It is much better to accept the "sincere milk of the Word" (1 Pe.2:2), and "receive with meekness the engrafted Word" of Yahweh (Ja.1:21),

        "...which is able to instruct you for salvation through faith in the Messiah Yahshua. For all Scripture given by inspiration of Yahweh is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of Yahweh may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works" (2 Tim.3:16,17 KJV).

        One good work which we should continually promote is FAITH; Faith in the following:

        (1) Faith in the one Supreme Being who has LIVED ETERNALLY. His Name is Yahweh, the Creator of the heavens and the earh and all things in them.

        (2) Faith in Yahweh's Son; Yahshua the Messiah, who DIED to redeem sinners and arose again the third day. He was "declared to be the Son of Yahweh... by his resurrection from the dead (Rom.1:1-4).

         

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        --
        Bro. Isaac E. Kusuma
        AOTLE-India
        MALIKIPURAM - 533 253
        E.G.Dist., AP., India
        www.aotle-india.org
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