Re: [TheTrueCommunity] Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Do we begin the Count to Pentecost after the Seventh Sabbath?
- Shalom Everyone!Even if I don't follow Lunar Sabbaths (that I believe to be a wrong theory and doctrine), Genesis Chapter 1, that Jahzrah used to try to DISPROVE Lunar Sabbaths, on the contrary, could be used from Lunar Sabbatarians to support their belief.In fact, being the Moon (and also the Sun, and the Stars) "made" as a lesser Light in the Sky (not "created", as the Hebrew word used means, otherwise there would be three Days without Sun, and Moon, and Stars, but with Evening, meaning sunset to dark, and Morning, meaning dawn to sunrise - Genesis 1:3-13), only in Day 4 (Genesis 1:14-19), that would mean that, in the previous Three Days, it remained Dark, Covered, and that is just the case of the Moon at Conjunction, that often remains Dark, Covered for about Three Days (from 1 1/2 Days to 3 1/2 Days) in the Northern Emisphere (where the Garden of Eden was, and where Yerusalem is, both references from where the time began).And that could mean that the New Moon (Conjunction, alignement of the Moon with the Sun, and the Earth) would be occurred just BEFORE Day One, when the Light was Made on the Earth (Genesis 1:3-5), when darkness still was on the Earth (Genesis 1:2), and so to be used as support of the Lunar Sabbaths theory and doctrine, and NOT on the contrary, to try to DISPROVE it.May our Creator and Father and Supreme Savio(u)r YAHWEH (YHWH) Bless your Insight of HIS Will and Word, The Truth!True Love in HIS Beloved Son and our High Priest and Personal Savio(u)r YAHSHUA (YAHWSHUA) MESSIYAH (MASHIACH),
Carlo TognoniThe Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA=======================================================
----- Original Message ----
From: "YHWHPeople@..." <YHWHPeople@...>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons@yahoogroups.com; Thetruecalendar@yahoogroups.com; firstname.lastname@example.org
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 9:35:44 PM
Subject: [TheTrueCommunity] Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Do we begin the Count to Pentecost after the Seventh Sabbath?How do you know that the moon was in a 1st day phase on day 4??????Could it have been in a 4th word day phase on day 4 to reflect the previous days from creation???The greater light (sun) was also mentioned on day 4 along with the lesser light (moon), are we to say that the 4th day in creation was the first day of the year and the first day of the month????The sun and moon were placed in the sky to beacon the appointments and the only appointment at that time was the weekly appointment because they had not left Egypt for unleavened bread etc.It does not say what position the sun was in or what phase the moon was in on day four and this does not disprove lunar sabbaths at all.You said,"Allow me to simply show that the day after the Seventh Sabbath is indeed the Fiftieth day from the Waving of the Sheaf and that beginning the count of 50 days from the morrow after Seventh Sabbath is wrong. And belief it or not, it's quite simple to prove with the Scriptures.The problem occurs in how some understand Leviticus 23 so let's take another look at it…·Leviticus 23:15 -  And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:  Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye NUMBER fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto Jah.At first glance it may seem like we should count 50 days from after the Sabbath and I could understand how one could think this way. But I'm sure with more Scriptural knowledge we can put line upon line to come to a more definite understanding of this count of 50 DAYS."RESPONSE;Aaron proclaimed a feast/Chag in Exodus 32:5 and it was exactly 50 days after the seventh lunar Sabbath complete and it was the same day that the Law was given to Moses.Yes, the Law and tables of stone was ACTUALLY given to Moses at the end of the 40 days and 40 nights which was50 days after the seventh lunar Sabbath complete Ex-31:18 and Deut- 9:11 as YHWH promased in Ex-24:12 whichwas after the 50 days was numbered. It was the day the Law was given.There is no feast mentioned in the third month Genesis to revelations I challenge anyone to find just one. Not only is there not a feast in the third month there is not a conclusive Winter wheat harvest in the third month. No third month feast, no third month wheat, no third month Pentecost. Click on http://lunarsabbath .info/_wsn/ page4.html for more information on the true count to Pentecost.you wrote,Ok, lets get to the point. The Truth of the matter is that this Count to Firstfruits utilizes the Same count to the year of Jubilee which is the 50th year after numbering SEVEN SABBATHS OF YEARS. Do you think it's a coincidence that both these notions that highlight the 50th day or the 50th year are uniquely patterned off of each other?Take a look at the Language of the Count to the year of Jubilee and notice that after the Seven Sabbath of years comes the obvious 50th year.·Leviticus 25:8 -  And thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and the space of the seven sabbaths of years shall be unto thee forty and nine years.  "Then" shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubile to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land.  And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family.  A jubile shall that fiftieth year be unto you: ye shall not sow, neither reap that which groweth of itself in it, nor gather the grapes in it of thy vine undressed.From what I can see, this Sabbatical year count to the year of Jubilee is different from the count to Pentecost because it says "then" i.e. after the 49th year is the 50th year. That is not the case with the count Pentecost in Leviticus 23:16 because it says even unto the morrow after the seventh Sabbath shall ye number 50 days then bring a new meat offering.Brother Arnold
---- Original Message ----
From: jahzrah@yahoo. com
To: Thetruecalendar@ yahoogroups. com; thetruecommunity@ yahoogroups. com; thetruesabbathsandn ewmoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 12:37 PM
Subject: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Do we begin the Count to Pentecost after the Seventh Sabbath?Grace and Peace,Earlier I posted information regarding the “Count To First Fruits”. I was pleased to have a few responses to that post. As I stated, there will always be a controversy regarding this count until the Messijah indeed comes again.But allow me to address a couple of things worthy of consideration in regards to this debatable topic.First of all, there were a couple of points made in reference to my understanding of ‘beginning the Count from the Day of the Waving of the Sheaf’, which occurs the day after the Seventh day of Unleavened Bread, of which we in Zion know ALWAYS occurs on the Seventh Day of the Week according to the “Originator’s Calendar.”I want to make the reader aware of my choice of words regarding the phrase “Originator’s Calendar.” For over 15 years we of the Zion Assembly of Jah have had and have been testing the Originator’s Almenach and we first revealed it to the world in the year 6200-from-originati on or 2000 AD, just over 7 years ago in a book entitled “THE REVELATION OF JAH’S (YAH’S) CALENDAR”.In saying this, with much years of studying the various calendars that are used in the world, we have zealously endeavoured to make a strict and distinct separation from the LUNAR, LUNI-SOLAR and SOLAR calendars or any calendar that utilizes the LUNAR cycles as supposedly being the SCRIPTURAL MONTHS OF THE ORIGINATOR.I believe and have come to understand that the Scriptural Months are completely different AND independent from any use of the lunar cycles as measuring the Scriptural months. So I obviously don’t believe in ‘Lunar Sabbaths’ since the Luna has nothing to do with JAH’S ORDAINED 7-day Weekly Cycle from the Origination.What I understand is that Scriptural months have determined and appointed lengths just as Jah has determined with the 24-hour daily Night and Light Cycle, which evolves into the Seven Day Weekly Cycle that ends on the 7th Day of every Scriptural week. Thus we can say that CALENDAR DATES AND DAYS are FIXED along with the 7-day Weekly Cycle, along with the 12-month yearly Cycle and the Seven Year Sabbatical Cycle…all are Fixed and Appointed Timeframes of the Most High that don’t vary.In other words, ALL aspects of JAH’S MEASUREMENTS OF TIME are Holy Appointed SET timeframes that were ordained by Him. These wonderful lengths can be worked out utilizing the Scriptures with the help of the Holy Spirit.Many people get caught up into thinking that the Sun, Luna and Stars will give you that exact moment of when to commence specific days, seasons, feasts, months or years. But that is not the situation. It should be noted that all the host of heaven work together as SIGNS of the Various Seasons on the Earth. They show Summer, Winter, Harvest, Seedtime, day and night etc. but the COMMANDED and APPOINTED Feast Days or Holy Times are STRICTLY DETERMINED BY JAH’S ORAL COMMANDS.The point I’m making is that just because the host of heaven can show us the characteristics of the seasons or when it is night or day, it doesn’t mean that we are to use them to identify which DAY JAH has SANCTIFIED as HOLY! This is crucial to understand!Based upon Eternal Principals established by the Holy One, JAH had already appointed the lengths of the weeks, months, seasons and years. And what He did on the fourth Day of Origination was create the host of heaven to BE FOR SIGNS TO THE WHOLE WORLD and ALL NATIONS, and He made the Great and Small lights to help them keep in sync with the Eternal Motion of TIME.All nations on the EARTH whether pagan or upright can use the Great lights to help them keep in sync with the times of sowing (planting) and ingathering (reaping), the seasons (summer and winter), 24-hour days and the progression of time. And many, if not all nations use either the sun, luna and stars to observe their various feasts to their gods. The use of the host of heaven to dictate seasons, is utilized in any way they wish.Take for example the Astronomical So-called Solar Calendar in use today that uses Equinoxes and Solstices as the beginnings of seasons. Much discussion has been made by lunar calendar promoters in the area of beginning the seasons at these times.Many cultures can use the host of heaven as their heart desires but to use the Host of heaven as markers of Holy Days and Feasts will indeed cause confusion. Of which, there is great confusion and debate amongst lunar, luni-solar and solar calendar dissidents in reference to the Original Israelite Almenach.We of Zion have no such confusion and can clearly see from the outside looking in that Satan has deceived the world into believing THAT JAH USES THE MOON CALCULATE THE SCRIPTURALLY APPOINTED FEASTS AND HOLY DAYS. But this is not true.Take note to the following popular Scriptures which show us that JAH has ALREADY APPOINTED THE SEASONS of which the HOST OF HEAVEN are SIGNS OF…
We can see that the Host are for 7 THINGS; they (together) are to:
- Genesis 1:14-19 - 14] And Jah said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And Jah made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And Jah set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and Jah saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
As we can see, the Host of Heaven have many functions and the following verses will show how we can utilize them to understand their use…
- Divide the Day (Light) from Night (Darkness), and to be for
- Years and to
- Give Light upon the Earth and to specifically
- Rule over the Day (Light) and Night (Darkness)
We can see that ‘seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter and day and night’ are some of the seasons that occur on the Earth. And it’s evident that the Host of heaven (all of them) have a part in showing the multiple nations of the earth exactly what and when the seasons are…I say the whole earth because of the following verse…
- Genesis 8:22 -  While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
The above not only shows us that JAH warns us (Jahzraelites or Believers) not to worship the host of heaven, but also that HE has divided the use of them unto all nations, ALL nations. This is what I was referring to when I said Jah uses the Host to Guide the World in Time…. There’s a saying, “It’s not what you look at or read - it’s what you see and understand.”Every nation on earth can use the sun, moon and stars to keep track of the progression of time. The Chinese, Hindu, Gregorian, Julian, Mayan, Babylonian, Muslim and many other calendars use the Host of Heaven to help them keep in sync with the Seasons and progression of time. But non of these calendars can be utilized to observe, predict and calculate the SET Feasts and Holy Days of the Most High.Do you get my point?So even though you can see the progression of time looking at the phases of the lunah or by observing the positions or ecliptics of the sun on the pagan astronomical “celestial sphere”, the host of heaven were never ordained to identify HOLY DAYS. This can proven with the First Sabbath from the creation of the universe.LUNAR SABBATHS?Some people wish to offer $10,000 to anyone that can show a verse that disproves that a Sabbath never occurred on one of the major phases of the moon (8th, 15th, 22nd or 29th)….I know that I wouldn’t get the cash but here is a very simple verse to PROVE that a Sabbath never occurred on any major phase of the moon. And I’m sure some deceptive argument will be used to counter it, but it is very clear….
- Deuteronomy 4:19 -  And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which JAH thy Maker hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.
From the previous verse we can see that the VERY FIRST SABBATH occurred on the Seventh day from Day 1 of Creation. We further understand that the Sun, Lunah and Stars were made and put into operation on Day 4 of the Origination.If the Moon (Lunah) was put into operation on this day 4 and the First Sabbath occurred 3 days after the ordinance of the moon was established we can see that this First Sabbath has nothing to do with the Lunah phase, because the lunah would only be in it’s 3rd day of operation by the time the First Sabbath was Established.Therefore the First Sabbath of the Creation wasn’t observed on the 8th, 15th, 22nd, and 29th day of ANY MOON PHASE!!I guess the argument will be made that the moon was made in Genesis 1:1 and that due to the Gap theory, the moon was always in operation….but this would contradict Day 4 of Creation in a big way….Or maybe the argument will be made that the days of Origination were not 24-hour days but 1000 year periods. But it can be proven from the Commandments in Exodus 20 that the days of origination were literal days.Thus far we have Genesis 2:1-3 that can PROVE that the First Sabbath ever observed and kept was done by JAH Himself and Adam and this occurred the day after the sixth day when man was originated.CALENDRICAL ISSUESI have understood and consider myself well versed in most calendar aspects and have not kept myself ignorant to the many notions of calendars claiming to be Scriptural or of the Most High. One thing I’m sure of is that many people have different variations and opinions as to when a lunar cycle begins and the length of it. Some people use the dark moon, some the crescent sliver and some the use the Full lunah. However, Creator’s Calendar that we forward doesn’t use any lunar cycle for months whatsoever and we have found that LUNAR MONTHS are not the Original months of the Originator.Another point of interest is the fact that lunar month timetables have to use 13 MONTH or MOON years every 3 years which goes against the Scriptural Standard of 12 MONTHS at all times.As well, the concept of the Appointed 7-day weekly cycle is ignored in all lunar calendars and as well as the Gregorian Astronomical Calendar. There are many “Year lengths” that have been researched of which I have found don’t use the 7-day weekly cycle as being harmonious with the length of the year.For example: Any calendar that uses the year length of 354-355 days, 360 days or 365.24 days is not in harmony with the Seven Day Weekly Cycle. In other words, the number 7 doesn’t divide evenly within those said years….As wel,l the above year lengths along with 13-month years cause the APPOINTED SET FEASTS AND HOLY DAYS to wander and move from year to year causing the feast dates to wander from their fixed Day of the Week.Jah’s Almenach has 364-day common years that work out as 52 Sabbaths or Weeks (7 x 52 = 364). This perfection allows every year to begin on the first day of the week and end on the Seventh day of the week.It also paves the foundation of SET FEASTS, which allows all the Feast Dates and Day of the week to be on the same DAY of the week AND DATE throughout ALL TIME. Hey lets face it, this indeed is a Revelation of great proportions.This Scriptural Foundation can never be gainsaid in this area and it has been proven time and time again as well it has withstood the attacks of Calendar dissidents who wish to oppose this Almenach of Perfection and in the mean while it has caught the attention of many people has being the closest Scripturally Compatible Calendar that keeps the Feasts Eternally SET…did I say “Forever” already!
- Genesis 2:1-3 - 1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.  And on the seventh day Jah ended His work which He had made; and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. And Jah blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which Jah created and made.
THE COUNT OF FIRSTFRUITS AND THE COUNT TO THE YEAR OF JUBILEEWith that said, getting back to the Count to First fruits, one argument put forward was that we should wait until Seven Sabbaths are complete and from that time you begin to START TO number 50 days and then you keep the Feast of Firstfruits…that’s right, from after the Seventh Sabbath!?Those who profess this say that we who complete the numbering of 50 days from after the Seventh Sabbath or the 49th day are in err, and we have been following traditions of man. But this is far from the truth. Maybe other groups professing Calendars of Scriptures are following errors, BUT NOT THE ZION ASSEMBLY OF JAH.Allow me to simply show that the day after the Seventh Sabbath is indeed the Fiftieth day from the Waving of the Sheaf and that beginning the count of 50 days from the morrow after Seventh Sabbath is wrong. And belief it or not, it’s quite simple to prove with the Scriptures.The problem occurs in how some understand Leviticus 23 so let’s take another look at it…
At first glance it may seem like we should count 50 days from after the Sabbath and I could understand how one could think this way. But I’m sure with more Scriptural knowledge we can put line upon line to come to a more definite understanding of this count of 50 DAYS.I understand and can prove that this count of 50 days INDEED includes the Seven Sabbaths or the OBVIOUS 49 days we read in Leviticus 23. Common sense should allow us to see that after 49 days comes 50 days, but as earlier mentioned, certain groups, in their error, wish to begin counting 50 days from the morrow after the Seventh Sabbath, which in total would 99 days. Are you with me?If we count the seven sabbaths, and then begin to count 50 days from the day after that seventh sabbath then we get 49 + 50 equalling 99 days.Ok, lets get to the point. The Truth of the matter is that this Count to Firstfruits utilizes the Same count to the year of Jubilee which is the 50th year after numbering SEVEN SABBATHS OF YEARS. Do you think it’s a coincidence that both these notions that highlight the 50th day or the 50th year are uniquely patterned off of each other?Take a look at the Language of the Count to the year of Jubilee and notice that after the Seven Sabbath of years comes the obvious 50th year.
- Leviticus 23:15 -  And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:  Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye NUMBER fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto Jah.
From what I can see, this Sabbatical year count to the year of Jubilee is patterned off of the Seven Sabbaths count to Pentecost or the 50th day. I find both to be in harmony and compliment each other…So in conclusion, I will count Seven Sabbaths from the Waving of the Sheaf and after the Seventh Sabbath or the 49th day I will have NUMBERED 50 days or that day after the Seventh Sabbath is the 50th day…This coincides with the Scriptural principal of the Count of Sabbatical years to the year of Jubilee.I would guess the argument from those who disagree will be that they are 2 different things and I’m being selective, but on the contrary I feel I’m being inclusive to use both these COUNTS as the COMMANDED way to observe JAH’S Holy Days….I will get to more issues in regards WHEN to begin the count to Firstfruits at another time because I know many people teach that we are not to begin the Count from the Waving of the Sheaf which is the day after the Seventh day of Unleavened Bread. But I will give clear examples that indeed we begin the count from the Sheaf....May this study enlighten your Understanding.In Jahshuwah's Name to Jah's Glory!Check out the website of the Zion Assembly of Jah with over 80 articles to study at http://www.members. tripod.com/ zionofjah/Our join our discussion forum at thetruecalendar@ yahoogroups. comThere is much information on the Scriptural Almenach (Calendar), the Creator's Universe, His Name, Laws, Festivals and plan of Salvation at these links. Enjoy!Glory be to Jah and His Son Jahshuwah!
- Leviticus 25:8 -  And thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and the space of the seven sabbaths of years shall be unto thee forty and nine years.  Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubile to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land.  And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family.  A jubile shall that fiftieth year be unto you: ye shall not sow, neither reap that which groweth of itself in it, nor gather the grapes in it of thy vine undressed.
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