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RE: [TheRomanBreviaryGroup] Re: Pre-Urban VII Latin Hymns for the Breviarium Romanum

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  • Mark Forster
    It s clear from the quotes from Sacrosanctum Concilium that they did not consider that they were making a break with tradition in doing so. Mark From:
    Message 1 of 24 , Jun 9, 2010
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      It's clear from the quotes from Sacrosanctum Concilium that they did not consider that they were making a break with tradition in doing so.

       

      Mark

       

      From: TheRomanBreviaryGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TheRomanBreviaryGroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of GlgAs@...
      Sent: 09 June 2010 01:43
      To: TheRomanBreviaryGroup@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [TheRomanBreviaryGroup] Re: Pre-Urban VII Latin Hymns for the Breviarium Romanum

       

       

      Yes

      the Liturgy of Hours was developed with the intention that the laity to pray it. Significantly easier structure, no night prayer, significantly shorter prayer.

       

       

       

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Mark Forster <mf@...>
      To: TheRomanBreviaryGroup@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tue, Jun 8, 2010 6:11 pm
      Subject: RE: [TheRomanBreviaryGroup] Re: Pre-Urban VII Latin Hymns for the Breviarium Romanum

       

      Some of these authorities may be of help:

       

      Sacrosanctum Concilium :

       

      84. By tradition going back to early Christian times, the divine office is devised so that the whole course of the day and night is made holy by the praises of God. Therefore, when this wonderful song of praise is rightly performed by priests and others who are deputed for this purpose by the Church's ordinance, or by the faithful praying together with the priest in the approved form, then it is truly the voice of the bride addressed to her bridegroom; lt is the very prayer which Christ Himself, together with His body, addresses to the Father.

       

      ****

      98. Members of any institute dedicated to acquiring perfection who, according to their constitutions, are to recite any parts of the divine office are thereby performing the public prayer of the Church.

      They too perform the public prayer of the Church who, in virtue of their constitutions, recite any short office, provided this is drawn up after the pattern of the divine office and is duly approved.

      ****

       

      Catechism of the Catholic Church:

       

      1174. ... In this "public prayer of the Church", the faithful (clergy, religious, and lay people) exercise the royal priesthood of the baptized...

       

      1175. The Liturgy of the Hours is intended to become the prayer of the whole People of God...

       

      Best wishes,

       

      Mark

       

      _,_._,___

    • Lou Pizzuti
      I think you mean no Matins/Nocturnes. And that is actually not the case. The only hour suppressed in the LotH is Prime. Matins has been renamed Office of
      Message 2 of 24 , Jun 9, 2010
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        I think you mean no Matins/Nocturnes.
        And that is actually not the case. The only hour suppressed in the LotH is Prime.
        Matins has been renamed "Office of Readings" and may be said at any time of the day. However, while it is shortened (only 3 psalms), the blessing are omitted and the formerly split reading are read as one, it otherwise preserves the structure of Matins.

        LP

        Mr. Lou Pizzuti, OP
         




        From: "GlgAs@..." <GlgAs@...>
        To: TheRomanBreviaryGroup@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tue, June 8, 2010 8:43:22 PM
        Subject: Re: [TheRomanBreviaryGroup] Re: Pre-Urban VII Latin Hymns for the Breviarium Romanum

         

        Yes

        the Liturgy of Hours was developed with the intention that the laity to pray it. Significantly easier structure, no night prayer, significantly shorter prayer.



        -----Original Message-----
        From: Mark Forster <mf@markforster. net>
        To: TheRomanBreviaryGro up@yahoogroups. com
        Sent: Tue, Jun 8, 2010 6:11 pm
        Subject: RE: [TheRomanBreviaryGr oup] Re: Pre-Urban VII Latin Hymns for the Breviarium Romanum



        Some of these authorities may be of help:
         
        Sacrosanctum Concilium :
         
        84. By tradition going back to early Christian times, the divine office is devised so that the whole course of the day and night is made holy by the praises of God. Therefore, when this wonderful song of praise is rightly performed by priests and others who are deputed for this purpose by the Church's ordinance, or by the faithful praying together with the priest in the approved form, then it is truly the voice of the bride addressed to her bridegroom; lt is the very prayer which Christ Himself, together with His body, addresses to the Father.
         
        ****
        98. Members of any institute dedicated to acquiring perfection who, according to their constitutions, are to recite any parts of the divine office are thereby performing the public prayer of the Church.
        They too perform the public prayer of the Church who, in virtue of their constitutions, recite any short office, provided this is drawn up after the pattern of the divine office and is duly approved.
        ****
         
        Catechism of the Catholic Church:
         
        1174. ... In this "public prayer of the Church", the faithful (clergy, religious, and lay people) exercise the royal priesthood of the baptized...
         
        1175. The Liturgy of the Hours is intended to become the prayer of the whole People of God...
         
        Best wishes,
         
        Mark
         
        _,_._,___
      • GlgAs@aim.com
        Is the Nocte surgentes vigilemus omnes, (Hymnus Dominica per annum) and the Invitatory for Lent Non sit vobis vanum mane surgere ante lucem * quia promisit
        Message 3 of 24 , Jun 9, 2010
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          Is the  'Nocte surgentes vigilemus omnes,' (Hymnus Dominica per annum) and the Invitatory for Lent "Non sit vobis vanum mane surgere ante lucem * quia promisit Dominus coronam vigilantibus' still in use?

          I meant that laity is supposed to be in the marital bed at night, and this is clear in the Liturgy of Hours made fro them.


          -----Original Message-----

          I think you mean no Matins/Nocturnes.
          And that is actually not the case. The only hour suppressed in the LotH is Prime.
          Matins has been renamed "Office of Readings" and may be said at any time of the day. However, while it is shortened (only 3 psalms), the blessing are omitted and the formerly split reading are read as one, it otherwise preserves the structure of Matins.

          LP


        • Mark A D Miles
          Lou, I believe that is just what Laszlo was hinting at. From its very genesis the Hour of Vigils, and then that of Matins as it became known, was a night
          Message 4 of 24 , Jun 9, 2010
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            Lou,

            I believe that is just what Laszlo was hinting at. From its very genesis the Hour of Vigils, and then that of Matins as it became known, was a night office, and specifically so. The Liturgia Horarum has specifically broken that continuity.

            It might have been better to do away with Matins and rework it into Prime, rather than doing away with the latter!

            Best wishes,
            Mark


            On 9 Jun 2010, at 16:10, Lou Pizzuti wrote:

             

            I think you mean no Matins/Nocturnes.
            And that is actually not the case. The only hour suppressed in the LotH is Prime.
            Matins has been renamed "Office of Readings" and may be said at any time of the day. However, while it is shortened (only 3 psalms), the blessing are omitted and the formerly split reading are read as one, it otherwise preserves the structure of Matins.

            LP

            Mr. Lou Pizzuti, OP
          • aquinas138
            The hymn Nocte surgentes vigilemus omnes is assigned to the Tuesday in weeks 2 and 4 of the Psalter. It is to be said when the Officium Lectionum is
            Message 5 of 24 , Jun 9, 2010
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              The hymn 'Nocte surgentes vigilemus omnes' is assigned to the Tuesday in weeks 2 and 4 of the Psalter. It is to be said when the Officium Lectionum is actually celebrated at night; when said in the morning, there is a different hymn.

              The Invitatory for Lent is "Christum Dóminum, pro nobis tentátum et passum, veníte, adorémus." There is the option to use a revised version of the old invitatory of Passiontide: "Utinam hódie vocem Dómini audiátis: Nolíte obduráre corda vestra."

              --- In TheRomanBreviaryGroup@yahoogroups.com, GlgAs@... wrote:
              >
              >
              > Is the 'Nocte surgentes vigilemus omnes,' (Hymnus Dominica per annum) and the Invitatory for Lent "Non sit vobis vanum mane surgere ante lucem * quia promisit Dominus coronam vigilantibus' still in use?
              >
              >
              > I meant that laity is supposed to be in the marital bed at night, and this is clear in the Liturgy of Hours made fro them.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              >
              >
              >
              > I think you mean no Matins/Nocturnes.
              > And that is actually not the case. The only hour suppressed in the LotH is Prime.
              > Matins has been renamed "Office of Readings" and may be said at any time of the day. However, while it is shortened (only 3 psalms), the blessing are omitted and the formerly split reading are read as one, it otherwise preserves the structure of Matins.
              >
              > LP
              >
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