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Re: [TheLandIsOurs] Fw: UK baby born free gets passport

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  • Alison Banville
    Quoting Gibran is all well and good (in his context he makes sense) but he talks of a mindset, an attitude parents have towards their children. The birth
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 30, 2012
      Quoting Gibran is all well and good (in his context he makes sense) but he talks of a mindset, an attitude parents have towards their children. The birth certificate is a bit of paper but with very real implications - see Ch4News tonight anyone?: http://www.channel4.com/news/ch4-special-report-do-experts-harm-family-court-cases
       
      'I am reminded of the story of a fellow in Michigan who has five children, the first four of whom have birth certificates. The youngest was born at home and hence has no birth certificate (same as mine). One day the dad was in a store with his kids and was yelling at one of them. A ‘public-minded’ woman overheard this and, like all good informants, telephoned Child Protective Services to report child abuse. The next day the cops came by and confiscated all five of his children. The following day the cops came by and returned the youngest, saying, “This one’s not ours'' Mary Elizabeth Croft. 'How I Clobbered Every Bureaucratic, Cash-confiscatory Agency Known to Man'.   http://www.freedomfiles.org/mary-book.pdf
       
      As to the question of the NHS or any other 'benefit' one might receive from the state in exchange for being bonded, what we are talking about here is freedom - the freedom to participate in something and the freedom to choose NOT TO! The state makes it exceedingly difficult to do the latter - I asked why that might be but no-one seems very interested in the answer which is interesting in itself! Participate if you want to - who's stopping you? Certainly not the govt; feel smug about it even and laugh at the idiocy of those who don't, that's your right! But when you make a contract there has to be full disclosure and in the case of registering your birth there is none. Let people know what it is and what it means and let them do it with full knowledge!
       
      The question is, do we have the freedom to choose how to live our lives or do we not? If you think these parents are silly then you have the freedom to say so (that particular freedom is a great thing that should be celebrated and protected) but does your opinion really matter to them? What matters to them, if they're at all enlightened about these things, is that you have the freedom to express it: 'I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it' Voltaire.
       
      What seems to be missing here is a healthy questioning of state power over citizens - when lies and coercion are used to frighten people into registering their childrens' births then that is a big red flag that signals all is not well. Isn't that obvious! Not only are you bonded by it but it is sold for profit! No wonder the state wants you to do it! And will try to scare you back into line if there's even a hint of you waking up.
       
      Is the way society is organized right now the only option then? How depressingly limited! Can we not imagine a better way where there is full sovereignty, real freedom and genuine democracy as opposed to the illusion of it we have now? Is it 'join up or shut up' and snipe at anyone trying to reach for something more conducive to human dignity, or can we build something better? '..all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed'. Declaration of Independence.
       
      As Thoreau said in his must-read, seminal essay of 1849, 'Civil Disobedience': 
       
      The authority of government, even such as I am willing to submit to — for I will cheerfully obey those who know and can do better than I...is still an impure one: to be strictly just, it must have the sanction and consent of the governed. It can have no pure right over my person and property but what I concede to it. The progress from an absolute to a limited monarchy, from a limited monarchy to a democracy, is a progress toward a true respect for the individual...Is a democracy, such as we know it, the last improvement possible in government? Is it not possible to take a step further towards recognizing and organizing the rights of man? There will never be a really free and enlightened State until the State comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independent power, from which all its own power and authority are derived, and treats him accordingly. I please myself with imagining a State at least which can afford to be just to all men, and to treat the individual with respect as a neighbor; which even would not think it inconsistent with its own repose if a few were to live aloof from it, not meddling with it, nor embraced by it, who fulfilled all the duties of neighbors and fellow-men. A State which bore this kind of fruit, and suffered it to drop off as fast as it ripened, would prepare the way for a still more perfect and glorious State, which also I have imagined, but not yet anywhere seen. 
       
      I think old Thoreau would be pretty happy with Occupy......
       

       

      From: Simon Fairlie <chapter7@...>
      To: TheLandIsOurs@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, 29 April 2012, 23:57
      Subject: Re: [TheLandIsOurs] Fw: UK baby born free gets passport

       
      Yes, and another reason is that the state can thereby tax the rich to provide the national health service that the parents in question apparently can't manage without.
      Simon

      On 29 Apr 2012, at 22:33, george dicegeorge wrote:

      Yes.
      One reason in favour of birth certificates
      is that without them children may be slaves to their parents,
      but with registration then State Social Service can monitor all children
      and save a few from abusive parents.

      [g]

      -----Original Message----- 
      From: Ian
      Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 9:39 PM
      To: TheLandIsOurs@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [TheLandIsOurs] Fw: UK baby born free gets passport

      Your children are not your children.
      They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
      They come through you but not from you,
      And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.
      Neither do they belong to the state. Birth certificates are just bits of 
      paper.
      Unfortunately one needs these bits of paper to negotiate ones way around
      this difficult world. Not registering a childs birth will just cause them 
      more
      trouble in life. If these people don't want their kids to be slaves, they 
      will
      need to teach them to understand the real workings of the world.

      Ian.

      On 28 Apr 2012 at 22:37, Alison Banville wrote:

      > http://bsnews.info/_DenialofConsent.html
      > It shows that the threats of prosecution (for not registering the birth) 
      > were just an attempt to scare
      > them, so one has to wonder.. why is the state so eager to have births 
      > registered and why does it
      > get so enraged if someone refuses? They would only become so angry and try 
      > and use
      > underhand tactics if there was something in it for them. For these 
      > parents, registering their child
      > would have been like knowingly sending her into bonded servitude as once 
      > our births are
      > registered we cease to be flesh and blood people in the eyes of the state 
      > and become a legal
      > entity called a 'person'.
      > Most of us know that corporations are 'persons' legally which is why 
      > legislation created for living
      > human beings can be used in relation to them - like the harassment 
      > legislation ostensibly
      > brought in to protect people from stalkers being used to protect corps 
      > from protesters, a tool to
      > crush dissent. We, ourselves, then are legally no longer flesh and blood 
      > but an artificially
      > created legal entity, the 'person'. How does this occur? Our births are 
      > registered.
      > That is the contract that's created, without full disclosure of course, 
      > between the individual and
      > the state. This document is the reason the state can come in and take your 
      > children away if it so
      > chooses, because, in reality, they ceased to belong to you the moment the 
      > birth was registered -
      > remember again how furious the registrar became threatening prosecution 
      > which never
      > materialised. The birth contract is valuable to the state, it bonds the 
      > human being and creates a
      > 'person' and is also sold as an asset.
      > Like these parents have done, freedom has to be asserted even in the face 
      > of corruption. It
      > worked for them. And it works for many others who refuse to behave as the 
      > cowering serf the
      > state wants, but it doesn't always work because the state is corrupt, and 
      > like any playground
      > bully it uses force to get its way. Does that mean we should stop trying? 
      > Most of us have first-
      > hand experience of police and court corruption, but we don't abandon the 
      > idea of a just society
      > because the very people who should be upholding the law ignore and abuse 
      > it and use force
      > against us. Remember when Brian Haw got hauled into that police van and 
      > his screams were
      > heard and he came out all bloody and bruised? Did we say that was proof 
      > that all efforts for
      > justice are naive and in vain, that Brian's years on that pavement were 
      > wasted? If someone
      > steals our wallet and gets away with it do we say that the law against 
      > stealing is useless and
      > should be abandoned? Should we fail to assert our freedom because the 
      > state acts corruptly and
      > does everything in its power to keep us enslaved?
      > Are we born free or are we not? Are we living breathing human beings or a 
      > legal fiction that is
      > owned? The fact that the state can use force to prevent us experiencing 
      > our freedom doesn't
      > mean we shouldn't always try and declare it and live it. If someone was 
      > pushing our head
      > underwater wouldn't we keep trying to come up for air? If this isn't true 
      > then all efforts to create a
      > better world should cease; Occupy better pack up and go back to a 
      > mortgaged house they've
      > been tricked into paying for even though the bank hasn't actually given 
      > them any real money.
      > Arguments about freedom relying on the fact that courts and police carry 
      > on corruptly are
      > meaningless because that is the reality for all activists, it always has 
      > been, and any freedoms
      > won, any progress in social justice made, has only come through the 
      > relentless strength of the
      > human spirit fighting all the way like explorers through thick jungle 
      > hacking away a path that will
      > be easier for others to tread.
      > The fact is, if everyone refused the state its authority and acted like a 
      > free human being it would
      > be all over for them. If everyone who says it doesn't work joined in 
      > instead of sniping then the
      > day of real liberation would be a lot closer.
      >
      >
      >
      > From: Ian <ian.stardust@...>
      > To: TheLandIsOurs@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Friday, 27 April 2012, 22:54
      > Subject: Re: [TheLandIsOurs] Fw: UK baby born free gets passport
      >
      > Seem to remember that the government declared it was going to make it
      > illegal not to register a childs birth, but Im not sure they ever got 
      > round to it,
      > let alone make the law retrospective. On the other hand, I don't really 
      > see
      > why not having a birth certificate makes someone "free". Surely they still
      > have to live under the same shitty system as the rest of us.
      >
      > Ian.
      >
      > On 27 Apr 2012 at 2:24, Alison Banville wrote:
      >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ----- Forwarded Message -----
      > > From: Alison Banville <alisonbanville@...>
      > > To: "democracyvillage@..." 
      > > <democracyvillage@...>;
      > > Politicsand Spirit Network <politicsandspiritnetwork@yahoogroups.com>; 
      > > diggers
      > > <diggers350@yahoogroups.com>; "project2012@..."
      > > <project2012@...>
      > > Sent: Thursday, 26 April 2012, 1:55
      > > Subject: UK baby born free gets passport
      > >
      > > Full correspondence below between the parents of a UK child whose birth 
      > > they refused to
      > > register in 2010 and the local authority, Home Office and passport 
      > > office:
      > >
      > > http://freetheplanet.net/articles/177/denial-of-consent-to-register-children-new-post
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >

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