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Re: [TheCostumersManifesto] Fortuny Pleats question

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  • rebecca bunny flower
    I ve had great success dyeing poly bright colors with disperse dyes, but it has do be done in an extremely ventilated area, and I wore a gas mask. (It wasn t
    Message 1 of 25 , Nov 25, 2006
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      I've had great success dyeing poly bright colors with disperse dyes, but it
      has do be done in an extremely ventilated area, and I wore a gas mask. (It
      wasn't easy, but I had a lot of fun doing it, maybe because I am especially
      weird.)

      I got mine from here: http://www.prochemical.com/catalog/disperse.htm and
      instructions are here:
      http://www.prochemical.com/directions.htm#PROsperse%20Disperse%20Dyes
      I'd suggest seriously reading the directions to decide if it's something
      you're willing to attempt.

      I'd like to reiterate, do not attempt this without ventilation and a mask.
      Don't do it anywhere near pets or other people who aren't similarly
      protected. Those are some noxious chemicals. The results were worth the
      trouble for me (I had to dye some polyester "fredericks of hollywood"-type
      corsets that were needed that week, and they came out bright and beautiful),
      but probably wouldn't be worth it to many others.

      Rebecca

      On 11/24/06, Sylvia Rognstad <sylvia@...> wrote:
      >
      > I didnt think acetate took dye very well, but it's been awhile since I
      > tried, so I'm not sure. And the rayon I was thinking of is pretty
      > soft. A crisper rayon would work but the pleats still will come out
      > with washing. I think polyester works the best and the pleats stay
      > in with washing, as I recall, but you can't dye poly more than a pastel
      > shade.
      >
      >
      > .
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Sylvia Rognstad
      I was pleasantly surprised once when I pleated a poly/cotton combo fabric to make a knife-pleated ruffle for a dress. I used a vinegar/water spray and a hot
      Message 2 of 25 , Nov 25, 2006
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        I was pleasantly surprised once when I pleated a poly/cotton combo
        fabric to make a knife-pleated ruffle for a dress. I used a
        vinegar/water spray and a hot iron. I thought for sure the pleats
        would come out in washing but they actually stayed in. So I think if
        you use polyester the crinkles might stay in without having to retwist.
        I think the reason commercially crinkled rayons stay crinkled
        throughout washing is the chemical process they use, which we can't
        duplicate in a costume shop.

        Sylrog

        On Nov 25, 2006, at 8:21 AM, Aurora Celeste wrote:

        > You can do semi-permanent fortuny pleats on silk if you have a
        > well-ventilated craft room:
        >
        > http://www.alleycatscratch.com/lotr/makingem/Tips/CrushSilk.htm
        >
        > I've used the technique and after washing you just crinkle up again
        > and dry
        > in the dryer, and the pleats stay well.
        >
        > Aurora
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Sylvia Rognstad
        Something just occurred to me in regard to the poly/cotton pleated ruffle. It is possible the garment was dry cleaned instead of washed, in which case, that
        Message 3 of 25 , Nov 25, 2006
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          Something just occurred to me in regard to the poly/cotton pleated
          ruffle. It is possible the garment was dry cleaned instead of washed,
          in which case, that might have been why the pleats didn't come out.
          But it was just a petticoat, so it could have been washed. I'll have
          to try the technique again and see what happens with washing.

          Sylrog

          On Nov 25, 2006, at 8:21 AM, Aurora Celeste wrote:

          > You can do semi-permanent fortuny pleats on silk if you have a
          > well-ventilated craft room:
          >
          > http://www.alleycatscratch.com/lotr/makingem/Tips/CrushSilk.htm
          >
          > I've used the technique and after washing you just crinkle up again
          > and dry
          > in the dryer, and the pleats stay well.
          >
          > Aurora
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Alexadbw@aol.com
          In a message dated 11/25/2006 12:00:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, sylvia@ntw.net writes: I think the reason commercially crinkled rayons stay crinkled
          Message 4 of 25 , Nov 25, 2006
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            In a message dated 11/25/2006 12:00:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
            sylvia@... writes:

            I think the reason commercially crinkled rayons stay crinkled
            throughout washing is the chemical process they use, which we can't
            duplicate in a costume shop.




            Actually, you have to re-twist them every time you wash them, and it
            **does** take a while to dry even in the dryer.


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Sylvia Rognstad
            Do you? I guess I ve never bought a crinkled skirt. I know the polyester crinkled fabric stays throughout washing. Again, it s the chemical process. Maybe
            Message 5 of 25 , Nov 25, 2006
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              Do you? I guess I've never bought a crinkled skirt. I know the
              polyester crinkled fabric stays throughout washing. Again, it's the
              chemical process. Maybe they cant do that on natural fibers.

              On Nov 25, 2006, at 10:09 AM, Alexadbw@... wrote:

              >
              > In a message dated 11/25/2006 12:00:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
              > sylvia@... writes:
              >
              > I think the reason commercially crinkled rayons stay crinkled
              > throughout washing is the chemical process they use, which we can't
              > duplicate in a costume shop.
              >
              > Actually, you have to re-twist them every time you wash them, and it
              > **does** take a while to dry even in the dryer.
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Stickfries@aol.com
              You actually can dye Polyester, but you need fiber specific dye and the poly-developer. ALJO in NYC sells it. I dye poly all the time. ... From:
              Message 6 of 25 , Nov 25, 2006
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                You actually can dye Polyester, but you need fiber specific dye and the poly-developer. ALJO in NYC sells it. I dye poly all the time.


                -----Original Message-----
                From: sylvia@...
                To: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 9:56 AM
                Subject: Re: [TheCostumersManifesto] Fortuny Pleats question


                Unfortunately you can't both crinkle and dye synthetics. Nylon dyes
                well but doesn't crinkle. Polyester crinkles well but doesn't dye.
                You can crinkle and dye silk, although the pleats won't be permanent.

                Sylrog

                On Nov 23, 2006, at 9:33 AM, mpareja_007 wrote:

                > Hi everyone and Happy Thanks Giving. I am doing the musical A Funny
                > thing happened on the way to the Forum, and I need to crinkle a lot of
                > fabric. I read Tara's page for crinkling fabric, great help, but since
                > I'm doing this musical on a thight budget, I need some suggestions on
                > what silky synthetic fabric crinkles the best and dyes the best. I
                > probably wont find all the colors so I may have to dye it too.
                > Your suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
                > Thanks
                >
                > Marina
                > Costumer
                > Florida International University
                >
                >
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Sylvia Rognstad
                I was aware of the disperse dyes for poly, but thought the process sounded so toxic that I never wanted to try it, let alone recommend it. I guess if you have
                Message 7 of 25 , Nov 25, 2006
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                  I was aware of the disperse dyes for poly, but thought the process
                  sounded so toxic that I never wanted to try it, let alone recommend it.
                  I guess if you have a respirator it is ok. And it wasn't difficult?

                  On Nov 25, 2006, at 8:07 AM, rebecca bunny flower wrote:

                  > I've had great success dyeing poly bright colors with disperse dyes,
                  > but it
                  > has do be done in an extremely ventilated area, and I wore a gas
                  > mask. (It
                  > wasn't easy, but I had a lot of fun doing it, maybe because I am
                  > especially
                  > weird.)
                  >
                  > I got mine from here: http://www.prochemical.com/catalog/disperse.htm
                  > and
                  > instructions are here:
                  > http://www.prochemical.com/directions.htm#PROsperse%20Disperse%20Dyes
                  > I'd suggest seriously reading the directions to decide if it's
                  > something
                  > you're willing to attempt.
                  >
                  > I'd like to reiterate, do not attempt this without ventilation and a
                  > mask.
                  > Don't do it anywhere near pets or other people who aren't similarly
                  > protected. Those are some noxious chemicals. The results were worth
                  > the
                  > trouble for me (I had to dye some polyester "fredericks of
                  > hollywood"-type
                  > corsets that were needed that week, and they came out bright and
                  > beautiful),
                  > but probably wouldn't be worth it to many others.
                  >
                  > Rebecca
                  >
                  > On 11/24/06, Sylvia Rognstad <sylvia@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I didnt think acetate took dye very well, but it's been awhile
                  > since I
                  > > tried, so I'm not sure. And the rayon I was thinking of is pretty
                  > > soft. A crisper rayon would work but the pleats still will come out
                  > > with washing. I think polyester works the best and the pleats stay
                  > > in with washing, as I recall, but you can't dye poly more than a
                  > pastel
                  > > shade.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > .
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Costume Lady
                  Marina - check out www.dharmatrading.com they carry dyes for all types of product and are fairly safe to use and they sell all types of fabric (some crinkle)
                  Message 8 of 25 , Nov 27, 2006
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                    Marina - check out www.dharmatrading.com they carry dyes for all
                    types of product and are fairly safe to use and they sell all types
                    of fabric (some crinkle) at decent prices.

                    Cindy

                    --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, "mpareja_007"
                    <mpareja_007@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi everyone and Happy Thanks Giving. I am doing the musical A
                    Funny
                    > thing happened on the way to the Forum, and I need to crinkle a
                    lot of
                    > fabric. I read Tara's page for crinkling fabric, great help, but
                    since
                    > I'm doing this musical on a thight budget, I need some suggestions
                    on
                    > what silky synthetic fabric crinkles the best and dyes the best. I
                    > probably wont find all the colors so I may have to dye it too.
                    > Your suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
                    > Thanks
                    >
                    >
                    > Marina
                    > Costumer
                    > Florida International University
                    >
                  • Michelle Davidson
                    Hello everyone! I need some help to support a debate. I am a faculty member at a midsize university: University of Nevada, Reno. I have an MFA in theatre
                    Message 9 of 25 , Dec 7, 2006
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                      Hello everyone! I need some help to support a debate.
                      I am a faculty member at a midsize university:
                      University of Nevada, Reno. I have an MFA in theatre
                      technology with a costume design emphasis. I am the
                      staff designer and costume shop manager for our
                      theatre department. We are in the process of
                      evaluating/redesigning our curriculum. The chair of
                      our department, the lighting faculty member, the
                      scenic faculty member, and the tech director had a
                      meeting to discuss the techical curriculum. I was not
                      invited or informed. When we next met to discuss
                      curriculum, they presented their plan for the tech
                      curriculum. Costumes were not part of it. (Along
                      with running the costume shop, I teach 4 classes
                      yearly.) I immediately asked where costumes were to
                      be represented in the tech curriculum. I was told
                      that they didn't realize/believe/know that costumes
                      were considered tech! I was stunned speechless! I
                      asked them where they thought costumes fit in, as they
                      are not part of the performance aspect of teaching
                      theatre, but along with set, lights, sound, props;
                      costumes are technical support for theatrical
                      productions. Now, I don't want anyone to think there
                      was a shouting match or any nastiness was intended,
                      but my feelings were a bit hurt and I am confused. As
                      with faculty decisions everywhere, discussion is
                      continuing. Please help me support my position that
                      costume design and construction are, in fact, aspects
                      of technical theatre.
                      Thank you!
                      Michelle (in Reno, but from the Dakotas!)

                      In the name of the Pasta, and of the Sauce, and of the Garlic Toast, RAmen.
                      http://www.venganza.org/index.htm

                      __________________________________________________
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                    • nbrookstaylor
                      When I first read the question in the subject line, I had a vesceral reaction that said I am not a technician, I am an artist! . Then I read the rest of the
                      Message 10 of 25 , Dec 7, 2006
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                        When I first read the question in the subject line, I had a vesceral
                        reaction that said "I am not a technician, I am an artist!". Then I
                        read the rest of the email, and realized you were talking about
                        "performance" versus "technical", and understood your question.

                        I absolutely believe that costumes are part of technical theatre, and
                        where I work, the Production Manager and TD believe this in theory.
                        In practice,however, costumes (and to a lesser extent props) seem to
                        occupy this weird no-man's land. That is, as shop manager, I am
                        pretty independant of the technical director. Costumes appears no
                        where in Technical Theatre or Advanced Technical Theatre,or even the
                        although students who wish to study costumes can take these classes
                        and do their lab hours with me, as there are no costume classes (we
                        only have 2 faculty members, and costumes is not represented).

                        I have a theory, although I try not to think about it because it
                        angers me, that our separation from "technical theatre" into something
                        separate is because costumes are seen as "women's work", and thus
                        unconsciously devalued. I also think that because people where clothes
                        every day, they think doing costumes must be easy. I recently had the
                        opportunity to show the props master how to make a piano cover and she
                        was flabbergasted at the amount of time and effort it took (it was
                        three layers and needed to fit the piano top perfectly). It took
                        about an hour, and part of that was because I was showing her. I
                        pointed out that some of the costumes we made for the most recent
                        show, a wedding dress, for example, took about 17-18 hours total. She
                        was just amazed at how long it took. She said that she was wondering
                        what I was doing that made me so busy!

                        So my 2 cents is that costume people are technicians and artists, but
                        not some wierd third area of theatre production!

                        Nadine

                        Nadine Taylor
                        Costume Shop Manager
                        University of Rochester International Theatre Program

                        --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, Michelle Davidson
                        <adastra33@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hello everyone! I need some help to support a debate.
                        > I am a faculty member at a midsize university:
                        > University of Nevada, Reno. I have an MFA in theatre
                        > technology with a costume design emphasis. I am the
                        > staff designer and costume shop manager for our
                        > theatre department. We are in the process of
                        > evaluating/redesigning our curriculum. The chair of
                        > our department, the lighting faculty member, the
                        > scenic faculty member, and the tech director had a
                        > meeting to discuss the techical curriculum. I was not
                        > invited or informed. When we next met to discuss
                        > curriculum, they presented their plan for the tech
                        > curriculum. Costumes were not part of it. (Along
                        > with running the costume shop, I teach 4 classes
                        > yearly.) I immediately asked where costumes were to
                        > be represented in the tech curriculum. I was told
                        > that they didn't realize/believe/know that costumes
                        > were considered tech! I was stunned speechless! I
                        > asked them where they thought costumes fit in, as they
                        > are not part of the performance aspect of teaching
                        > theatre, but along with set, lights, sound, props;
                        > costumes are technical support for theatrical
                        > productions. Now, I don't want anyone to think there
                        > was a shouting match or any nastiness was intended,
                        > but my feelings were a bit hurt and I am confused. As
                        > with faculty decisions everywhere, discussion is
                        > continuing. Please help me support my position that
                        > costume design and construction are, in fact, aspects
                        > of technical theatre.
                        > Thank you!
                        > Michelle (in Reno, but from the Dakotas!)
                        >
                        > In the name of the Pasta, and of the Sauce, and of the Garlic Toast,
                        RAmen.
                        > http://www.venganza.org/index.htm
                        >
                        > __________________________________________________
                        > Do You Yahoo!?
                        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                        > http://mail.yahoo.com
                        >
                      • marina pareja
                        Hi Michelle, I have the same position as you at Florida International University in Miami and I understand your predicament. You were stunned speechless! And
                        Message 11 of 25 , Dec 7, 2006
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                          Hi Michelle, I have the same position as you at Florida International
                          University in Miami and I understand your predicament. You were stunned
                          speechless! And you should be! I had to read your email many times to make
                          sure that I understood what I was reading. Who are these people? Do they
                          have any knowledge of theatre production? Where do they think costumes come
                          from? the air? As far as I know, in order to make costumes you have to have
                          some kind specialization or knowledge in costume construction, and to me
                          that makes it technical. Also if you look in any theatre production book,
                          reference or academic, you will find that costumes are part of what is
                          considered the production aspect of theater, together with light, sound,
                          scenery, props, make up, etc, no matter how minimal these may be. Also, look
                          at other University�s curriculums and you�ll see that costume design and
                          construction are always under technical production classes. So let me tell
                          you, the problem with these people is that they are misinformed.

                          Good Luck

                          Marina





                          Marina Pareja
                          Costume Shop Manager
                          Werthiem Performing Arts Center
                          Florida International University





                          >From: Michelle Davidson <adastra33@...>
                          >Reply-To: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com
                          >To: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com
                          >Subject: [TheCostumersManifesto] Are costumers technicians?
                          >Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 11:17:51 -0800 (PST)
                          >
                          >Hello everyone! I need some help to support a debate.
                          > I am a faculty member at a midsize university:
                          >University of Nevada, Reno. I have an MFA in theatre
                          >technology with a costume design emphasis. I am the
                          >staff designer and costume shop manager for our
                          >theatre department. We are in the process of
                          >evaluating/redesigning our curriculum. The chair of
                          >our department, the lighting faculty member, the
                          >scenic faculty member, and the tech director had a
                          >meeting to discuss the techical curriculum. I was not
                          >invited or informed. When we next met to discuss
                          >curriculum, they presented their plan for the tech
                          >curriculum. Costumes were not part of it. (Along
                          >with running the costume shop, I teach 4 classes
                          >yearly.) I immediately asked where costumes were to
                          >be represented in the tech curriculum. I was told
                          >that they didn't realize/believe/know that costumes
                          >were considered tech! I was stunned speechless! I
                          >asked them where they thought costumes fit in, as they
                          >are not part of the performance aspect of teaching
                          >theatre, but along with set, lights, sound, props;
                          >costumes are technical support for theatrical
                          >productions. Now, I don't want anyone to think there
                          >was a shouting match or any nastiness was intended,
                          >but my feelings were a bit hurt and I am confused. As
                          >with faculty decisions everywhere, discussion is
                          >continuing. Please help me support my position that
                          >costume design and construction are, in fact, aspects
                          >of technical theatre.
                          >Thank you!
                          >Michelle (in Reno, but from the Dakotas!)
                          >
                          >In the name of the Pasta, and of the Sauce, and of the Garlic Toast, RAmen.
                          >http://www.venganza.org/index.htm
                          >
                          >__________________________________________________
                          >Do You Yahoo!?
                          >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                          >http://mail.yahoo.com
                        • llsturts@greatlakes.net
                          costume DESIGN set DESIGN prop DESIGN lighting DESIGN sound DESIGN What part of the word design don t they understand? That s the only reply needed, IMHO.
                          Message 12 of 25 , Dec 7, 2006
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                            costume DESIGN
                            set DESIGN
                            prop DESIGN
                            lighting DESIGN
                            sound DESIGN

                            What part of the word "design" don't they understand?

                            That's the only reply needed, IMHO.

                            ~lisa.s
                          • David
                            Well of course we are technicians. To believe otherwise is ludicrous. I think the leadership of your tech program needs to be re-examined. We would certainly
                            Message 13 of 25 , Dec 8, 2006
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                              Well of course we are technicians. To believe otherwise is ludicrous.
                              I think the leadership of your tech program needs to be re-examined.
                              We would certainly never put up with this absurd attitude here.

                              David Juby
                              Head of Wardrobe
                              Sheridan College
                            • Curtis
                              ... something ... As someone that has worked pretty much every aspect of technical theater, I take a little exception to your assumption. In my experience,
                              Message 14 of 25 , Dec 8, 2006
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                                --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, "nbrookstaylor"
                                <nbrookstaylor@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > I have a theory, although I try not to think about it because it
                                > angers me, that our separation from "technical theatre" into
                                something
                                > separate is because costumes are seen as "women's work", and thus
                                > unconsciously devalued.

                                As someone that has worked pretty much every aspect of technical
                                theater, I take a little exception to your assumption. In my
                                experience, the separation between costumes (and props, sometimes)
                                is due to the fact that technical directors just don't ever study
                                that aspect in any detail. Every location I've ever worked at had
                                competent costumers, the TD didn't need to be consulted for
                                assistance with costume issues--but sets, lighting, sound, those
                                were all domains where the TD was constantly wrangling issues.
                                Because there's a lot of discussion back and forth between those
                                branches, they tend to group together...they also end up having to
                                work in the same space during the process of putting the show
                                together (sound to a much lesser extent, as they come into the
                                process relatively late in most productions), whereas costumes (and
                                props) just kind of magically materialize from nowhere (in their
                                eyes). We do our work in a different location, so we tend to be
                                mentally filed under a different category.

                                If you sit down and talk to them about it, then of course we're part
                                of the technical side of things...but on a day to day basis,
                                costumers and props designers spend so much time working
                                independently that they become operators in their own domain, and
                                it's a very rare TD that really succeeds in keeping them assimilated
                                into the whole category.

                                (Another thing is, so many costumers and props people tend to be
                                designers, in their own right, whereas there are a lot of
                                technicians who simply take what they are given by a designer and
                                make it happen. It's creativity, focused in a different
                                direction...but as we tend to think differently, there becomes a
                                subconscious divide between the two.)
                              • Sherry Ross
                                When running a show why are custome changes left to the final rehearsal. In community theatre we costume designers are always left to the end and rushed for
                                Message 15 of 25 , Dec 8, 2006
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                                  When running a show why are custome changes left to the final rehearsal. In community theatre we costume designers are always left to the end and rushed for changes. I can tell the directors you need more time but until dress rehearsal they refuse to include time for it.
                                  Sherry
                                  Brampton Music Theatre

                                  Curtis <gckidd@...> wrote: --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, "nbrookstaylor"
                                  <nbrookstaylor@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I have a theory, although I try not to think about it because it
                                  > angers me, that our separation from "technical theatre" into
                                  something
                                  > separate is because costumes are seen as "women's work", and thus
                                  > unconsciously devalued.

                                  As someone that has worked pretty much every aspect of technical
                                  theater, I take a little exception to your assumption. In my
                                  experience, the separation between costumes (and props, sometimes)
                                  is due to the fact that technical directors just don't ever study
                                  that aspect in any detail. Every location I've ever worked at had
                                  competent costumers, the TD didn't need to be consulted for
                                  assistance with costume issues--but sets, lighting, sound, those
                                  were all domains where the TD was constantly wrangling issues.
                                  Because there's a lot of discussion back and forth between those
                                  branches, they tend to group together...they also end up having to
                                  work in the same space during the process of putting the show
                                  together (sound to a much lesser extent, as they come into the
                                  process relatively late in most productions), whereas costumes (and
                                  props) just kind of magically materialize from nowhere (in their
                                  eyes). We do our work in a different location, so we tend to be
                                  mentally filed under a different category.

                                  If you sit down and talk to them about it, then of course we're part
                                  of the technical side of things...but on a day to day basis,
                                  costumers and props designers spend so much time working
                                  independently that they become operators in their own domain, and
                                  it's a very rare TD that really succeeds in keeping them assimilated
                                  into the whole category.

                                  (Another thing is, so many costumers and props people tend to be
                                  designers, in their own right, whereas there are a lot of
                                  technicians who simply take what they are given by a designer and
                                  make it happen. It's creativity, focused in a different
                                  direction...but as we tend to think differently, there becomes a
                                  subconscious divide between the two.)






                                  Sherry Ross
                                  Brampton Music Theatre
                                  Youth Troupe Admin
                                  Check out the Yahoo group..BMTyouth Troupe_Cinderella
                                  www.BMTyouthtroupe_Cinderella.com


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Joe
                                  I run across this attitude all the time. I try to ignore it mostly because with 20 years as a costumer, I can t fight that battle any more. Nothing back stage
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Dec 18, 2006
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                                    I run across this attitude all the time.
                                    I try to ignore it mostly because with 20 years as a costumer, I can't fight
                                    that battle any more.
                                    Nothing back stage in theater, & film invoke character more than does costume design,
                                    for what is Batman without his utility belt.
                                    And to make that belt you need to able to vacu-form, mold latex, shape foam,
                                    paint, and of course sew.
                                    Infect, all of the skills used in the scene shop, outside of construction with wood, is
                                    used in construction of costumes.
                                    Added to the fact that the piece being constructed must move and be specific to the actor.
                                    I could argue that costume construction is a more challenging discipline.
                                  • jeannets
                                    ... This is an interesting discussion. I generally refer to myself as a costume technician. I have been a stitcher, first hand, cutter/draper and shop
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Dec 28, 2006
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                                      --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <jocig@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I run across this attitude all the time.
                                      > I try to ignore it mostly because with 20 years as a costumer, I can't fight
                                      > that battle any more.

                                      This is an interesting discussion. I generally refer to myself as a costume technician. I
                                      have been a stitcher, first hand, cutter/draper and shop manager. I think putting it that
                                      way lets people know I am not a designer--something I've never had any interest in doing.
                                      I think the comment about "women's work" is spot on. The other side of theatre
                                      production (more male dominated) definitely has more union representation than
                                      costumers. Why is that?

                                      I was at a seminar given by someone who taught at an arts high school a few years ago.
                                      This person was the tech. director of the theatre program. When I asked him about
                                      costumes, he said it was all rented (!) My oldest daughter is a freshman theatre major at
                                      the arts high school in our city. From what I've seen so far, their production classes don't
                                      focus on costumes either. I gave a talk about costuming to the freshman theatre classes
                                      and even the teacher was amazed that I knew how to make a pattern based on a sketch.

                                      Jeanne
                                      Milwaukee WI
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