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Pattern Sizes

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  • Sigrun Nilsen
    Hi All, I was trying to make a cotton flannel jacket and picked out a pattern that I thought would fit me. I checked the finished garment measurements and they
    Message 1 of 16 , Oct 13, 2004
      Hi All,

      I was trying to make a cotton flannel jacket and picked out a pattern that I thought would fit me. I checked the finished garment measurements and they were actually a bit larger than my own measurements.

      But the pattern did not fit me! I couldn't button it. I asked a seamstress friend/mentor of mine about the problem and she told me to measure the pieces to see if they ran true to the finished garment ones.

      They didn't, which leaves me puzzled. I've never had that problem before with making clothing. Has anyone else ever experienced this?

      How can I know for sure that the garment will fit? I really loved the fabric I picked out and now it's basically trashed. I also wasted a whole two days of cutting and sewing two of these type jackets. It was supposed to be somewhat tailored to fit but was two sizes too small.

      Geez....

      Michele


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Robert
      ... That s a good question... I ve read where one should cut the pattern and pin it on before cutting the fabric -- to make certain of the fit or make any
      Message 2 of 16 , Oct 13, 2004
        > How can I know for sure that the garment will fit?
        >
        > Michele

        That's a good question...

        I've read where one should cut the pattern and pin it on before
        cutting the fabric -- to make certain of the fit or make any changes
        to the fit. However, if it's that far off -- what do you do without
        having to buy TWO copies of the pattern -- just in case the first cut
        was 'wrong'?

        -RD
      • Kathy Pawl
        You don t mention the Pattern company - I know that with some I m way too big and others I m way too small. This seems to happen more with the historical
        Message 3 of 16 , Oct 14, 2004
          You don't mention the Pattern company - I know that with some I'm way too big and others I'm way too small. This seems to happen more with the historical patterns. If I'm not sure how something will come out, I cut the pattern out of the paper, make a muslin and do the alterations on the muslin pattern and use that for my next pattern. Also if I have a muslin it makes it that much easier to make another garment for someone else. I just try on the muslin and make a pattern for them. Kraft paper (that brown paper stuff gets shipped in) is inexpensive and lasts forever.

          Kathy

          Robert <robdavis_55@...> wrote:

          > How can I know for sure that the garment will fit?
          >
          > Michele

          That's a good question...

          I've read where one should cut the pattern and pin it on before
          cutting the fabric -- to make certain of the fit or make any changes
          to the fit. However, if it's that far off -- what do you do without
          having to buy TWO copies of the pattern -- just in case the first cut
          was 'wrong'?

          -RD





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        • K Murphy
          Hi Michele: A couple thoughts on what may have happened (besides a manufacturer s printing error.) Some patterns (such as Burda) do not include a seam
          Message 4 of 16 , Oct 14, 2004
            Hi Michele:

            A couple thoughts on what may have happened (besides a manufacturer's printing error.)

            Some patterns (such as Burda) do not include a seam allowance. If you cut on the size 8 lines of a Burda pattern, you are cutting on the stitching lines and the finished garment will be several inches too small as a result. It's a good idea to always read all the instructions first -- with the multi-size patterns that do not include seam allowance, you need to trace the lines you want, not cut the fabric along them. After you've traced the stitching lines, you remove the pattern and add the seam allowance all around before cutting.

            It's also possible that in comparing your measurements to the pattern's measurements, you did not allow for ease. "Ease" is the extra amount of fullness needed for a garment to go around the body, close, and hang comfortably (usually a minimum 4" or more for a jacket, even a tailored one -- so if your bust is 34", your minimum finished garment measurement should be 38" or more.) Also remember that most patterns print two sets of measurements -- the measurements under the sizes on the pattern envelope are not the finished garment measurements, but the suggested body measurements for each size. Finished garment measurements tend to be printed on the pattern pieces themselves, usually at the bustline, waistline, and hipline.

            Then there's the outside chance that you have a physical feature (such as a waist larger than your bust) that the pattern manufacturer does not consider typical.

            In any case, you can avoid the same problem in the future by pinning the pattern together on the stitching lines and trying it on before you cut anything out.

            If none of these reasons explain why your jacket was too small, then I'd write the manufacturer (include a copy of your reciept if you've still got it) and ask if they've had any similar complaints.

            Kate Murphy

            Sigrun Nilsen <drkfrau@...> wrote:
            Hi All,

            I was trying to make a cotton flannel jacket and picked out a pattern that I thought would fit me. I checked the finished garment measurements and they were actually a bit larger than my own measurements.

            But the pattern did not fit me! I couldn't button it. I asked a seamstress friend/mentor of mine about the problem and she told me to measure the pieces to see if they ran true to the finished garment ones.

            They didn't, which leaves me puzzled. I've never had that problem before with making clothing. Has anyone else ever experienced this?

            How can I know for sure that the garment will fit? I really loved the fabric I picked out and now it's basically trashed. I also wasted a whole two days of cutting and sewing two of these type jackets. It was supposed to be somewhat tailored to fit but was two sizes too small.

            Geez....

            Michele



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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • tjchatham
            Michele, You said you made the jacket out of cotton flannel. Did you pre-wash the flannel before cutting it out? Cotton flannel is known for its ability to
            Message 5 of 16 , Oct 14, 2004
              Michele,
              You said you made the jacket out of cotton flannel. Did you pre-wash
              the flannel before cutting it out? Cotton flannel is known for its
              ability to shrink 3-5% in all directions... even if you didn't wash
              it. Humidity alone sometimes is enough to make it shrink. Ironing it
              with a steam iron can also shrink it. It may be the fault of the
              fabric and not the pattern.
              Being that your pattern said that it was going to be a "tailored" fit
              (which means little or no room for "error"), I'd have measured every
              pattern piece in every direction and along every seam and held it up
              to my body (sometimes takes a "helper" to do this) to see if it was
              going to even come close to fitting... even going the route of making
              up a "muslin" of the thing to see where/how it was going to fit. I
              just did this very thing on bustiers for my daughters "maids" at her
              wedding. Three fittings were needed before each bustier was completed
              and fit perfectly... so it does take a bit of time with "tailored" or
              fitted items.
              Also... patterns sometimes come in many catagories.... juniors,
              misses, womens, etc. A pattern for a bust size 36 for example is
              going to "fit" completely different (and be a different size) in a
              juniors than it does in a misses and still different in a womens. The
              waist length, waist size, shoulder width, armhole depth, etc of each
              will be totally different.... even if they are each supposed to fit a
              bust size 36. I picked "bust size" as the example because that's
              where a woman always has to start with fitting a pattern. All other
              measurements can more easily be "adjusted" to fit. And we know if it
              doesn't fit there.... it doesn't matter what else fits, it isn't
              going to look right.
              But be aware of one other thing.... back in 1977-78 or so
              the "standards" for sizing patterns and clothing were completely
              thrown out.... at least in the US they were. Some countries still
              have some "standards" for their clothing industries.... but NOT the
              US. Any company is free to label anything by any size or put
              any "number" on it that they want. That's why there are at least
              three "sizes" of shoes in my closet and many more sizes of clothing.
              That's also why there isn't much "bought" clothing in my closet...
              only a few tops and sweaters. I sew most of my clothing so that it
              DOES fit because it's just a waste of my time trying to find
              something off the rack that fits.
              Well, hope you find out what the problem was so you can avoid it in
              the future. Every sewing project is a "lesson" to be learned and we
              sometimes learn most by our mistakes.
              Tess

              --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, "Sigrun Nilsen"
              <drkfrau@v...> wrote:
              > Hi All,
              >
              > I was trying to make a cotton flannel jacket and picked out a
              pattern that I thought would fit me. I checked the finished garment
              measurements and they were actually a bit larger than my own
              measurements.
              >
              > But the pattern did not fit me! I couldn't button it. I asked a
              seamstress friend/mentor of mine about the problem and she told me to
              measure the pieces to see if they ran true to the finished garment
              ones.
              >
              > They didn't, which leaves me puzzled. I've never had that problem
              before with making clothing. Has anyone else ever experienced this?
              >
              > How can I know for sure that the garment will fit? I really loved
              the fabric I picked out and now it's basically trashed. I also wasted
              a whole two days of cutting and sewing two of these type jackets. It
              was supposed to be somewhat tailored to fit but was two sizes too
              small.
              >
              > Geez....
              >
              > Michele
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • gintzed23
              Hi Michele and Kathy: Was the pattern a Kwik Sew? They most commonly only include 1/4 inch seam allowances and in your typical fitted jacket that would
              Message 6 of 16 , Oct 14, 2004
                Hi Michele and Kathy:
                Was the pattern a Kwik Sew? They most commonly only include 1/4 inch
                seam allowances and in your typical fitted jacket that would account
                for at least 3 inches of 'lost' size with just the additional seam
                allowances taken. Years ago, I worked in a fabric/sewing store and
                excess seam allowances were the most common reason for fitting
                failures. Second most common was incorrect measuring of the subject
                (or complete failure to measure)!
                Cynthia
                --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, K Murphy
                <costumerkate@y...> wrote:
                > Hi Michele:
                >
                > A couple thoughts on what may have happened (besides a
                manufacturer's printing error.)
                >
                > Some patterns (such as Burda) do not include a seam allowance. If
                you cut on the size 8 lines of a Burda pattern, you are cutting on
                the stitching lines and the finished garment will be several inches
                too small as a result. It's a good idea to always read all the
                instructions first -- with the multi-size patterns that do not
                include seam allowance, you need to trace the lines you want, not cut
                the fabric along them. After you've traced the stitching lines, you
                remove the pattern and add the seam allowance all around before
                cutting.
                >
                > It's also possible that in comparing your measurements to the
                pattern's measurements, you did not allow for ease. "Ease" is the
                extra amount of fullness needed for a garment to go around the body,
                close, and hang comfortably (usually a minimum 4" or more for a
                jacket, even a tailored one -- so if your bust is 34", your minimum
                finished garment measurement should be 38" or more.) Also remember
                that most patterns print two sets of measurements -- the measurements
                under the sizes on the pattern envelope are not the finished garment
                measurements, but the suggested body measurements for each size.
                Finished garment measurements tend to be printed on the pattern
                pieces themselves, usually at the bustline, waistline, and hipline.
                >
                > Then there's the outside chance that you have a physical feature
                (such as a waist larger than your bust) that the pattern manufacturer
                does not consider typical.
                >
                > In any case, you can avoid the same problem in the future by
                pinning the pattern together on the stitching lines and trying it on
                before you cut anything out.
                >
                > If none of these reasons explain why your jacket was too small,
                then I'd write the manufacturer (include a copy of your reciept if
                you've still got it) and ask if they've had any similar complaints.
                >
                > Kate Murphy
                >
                > Sigrun Nilsen <drkfrau@v...> wrote:
                > Hi All,
                >
                > I was trying to make a cotton flannel jacket and picked out a
                pattern that I thought would fit me. I checked the finished garment
                measurements and they were actually a bit larger than my own
                measurements.
                >
                > But the pattern did not fit me! I couldn't button it. I asked a
                seamstress friend/mentor of mine about the problem and she told me to
                measure the pieces to see if they ran true to the finished garment
                ones.
                >
                > They didn't, which leaves me puzzled. I've never had that problem
                before with making clothing. Has anyone else ever experienced this?
                >
                > How can I know for sure that the garment will fit? I really loved
                the fabric I picked out and now it's basically trashed. I also wasted
                a whole two days of cutting and sewing two of these type jackets. It
                was supposed to be somewhat tailored to fit but was two sizes too
                small.
                >
                > Geez....
                >
                > Michele
                >
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > Do you Yahoo!?
                > vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Pierre & Sandy Pettinger
                We trace ALL our patterns before use - either onto tracing paper or newsprint. (We get tracing paper in rolls that is used for drafting - our local university
                Message 7 of 16 , Oct 14, 2004
                  We trace ALL our patterns before use - either onto tracing paper or
                  newsprint. (We get tracing paper in rolls that is used for drafting - our
                  local university bookstore has it cheapest, for the architecture
                  students. Newsprint is available from your local newspaper - most of them
                  sell ends of rolls for a minimal charge - ours is like 10 cents a
                  pound. Tracing paper lasts longer and is tougher.) Since we always have
                  to make several fitting alterations, this makes things easier. Most of the
                  nifty "costume" patterns don't go large enough to fit me anyway. It also
                  lets us re-use a pattern for another costume/garment later.

                  The comments about body measurements vs. finished measurements are right
                  on, also about the shrinking. However, the three major U.S. pattern
                  companies DO use a standard (and it's the same standard) for their sizing,
                  when creating their basic fitting sloper. They then can vary widely in how
                  much "standard" ease they include, both for "fitted" garments and for
                  looser ones. One thing to remember is that all sizes are based on a B cup
                  size - if you're larger than that, you need to go by your "high bust" or
                  chest measurement, not your full bust measurement. (Measure around the
                  body above the bust, under the arms, and across the shoulder blades.) If
                  you get a pattern by your full bust size, it will be WAY too big in the
                  neck and shoulder area (speaking from experience). It is easier to adjust
                  for a full bust than to change the neck and shoulder area.

                  Hope this helps.

                  Sandy
                  At 11:39 PM 10/13/2004, you wrote:

                  >I was trying to make a cotton flannel jacket and picked out a pattern that
                  >I thought would fit me. I checked the finished garment measurements and
                  >they were actually a bit larger than my own measurements.
                  >
                  >But the pattern did not fit me! I couldn't button it. I asked a seamstress
                  >friend/mentor of mine about the problem and she told me to measure the
                  >pieces to see if they ran true to the finished garment ones.
                  >
                  >They didn't, which leaves me puzzled. I've never had that problem before
                  >with making clothing. Has anyone else ever experienced this?
                  >
                  >Michele

                  "Those Who Fail To Learn History
                  Are Doomed to Repeat It;
                  Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly --
                  Why They Are Simply Doomed.

                  Achemdro'hm
                  "The Illusion of Historical Fact"
                  -- C.Y. 4971

                  Andromeda
                • Theresa Roden
                  Thanks for the reminder about sizing for B cups. I m going to have to be shopping for patterns (new wardrobe coming up due to healthy weight loss--about
                  Message 8 of 16 , Oct 15, 2004
                    Thanks for the reminder about sizing for "B" cups. I'm going to have to be shopping for patterns (new wardrobe coming up due to healthy weight loss--about 50# over what I should). If anyone has suggestions, tips or tricks to create slacks and skirts that can be adjusted as I lose inches, they would be appreciated.

                    I've also found that the 1" gridded stuff the fabric stores sell is wonderful for tracing off patterns (especially multisized ones). Transparent enough to see through and get all the markings and size adjustments if you're like me and take one size on top and another on the bottom. Recently, when I had to tackle a pattern that had to be joined to make the full piece, this stuff was wonderful cuz I could trace a section then join it to the other part of the pattern and have the pattern piece with no taping.

                    Theresa R.



                    Pierre & Sandy Pettinger <costumrs@...> wrote:

                    We trace ALL our patterns before use - either onto tracing paper or
                    newsprint. (We get tracing paper in rolls that is used for drafting - our
                    local university bookstore has it cheapest, for the architecture
                    students. Newsprint is available from your local newspaper - most of them
                    sell ends of rolls for a minimal charge - ours is like 10 cents a
                    pound.
                    The comments about body measurements vs. finished measurements are right
                    on, also about the shrinking. However, the three major U.S. pattern
                    companies DO use a standard (and it's the same standard) for their sizing,
                    when creating their basic fitting sloper. They then can vary widely in how
                    much "standard" ease they include, both for "fitted" garments and for
                    looser ones. One thing to remember is that all sizes are based on a B cup
                    size - if you're larger than that, you need to go by your "high bust" or
                    chest measurement, not your full bust measurement. (Measure around the
                    body above the bust, under the arms, and across the shoulder blades.) If
                    you get a pattern by your full bust size, it will be WAY too big in the
                    neck and shoulder area (speaking from experience). It is easier to adjust
                    for a full bust than to change the neck and shoulder area.

                    Hope this helps.

                    Sandy
                    At 11:39 PM 10/13/2004, you wrote:

                    >I was trying to make a cotton flannel jacket and picked out a pattern that
                    >I thought would fit me. I checked the finished garment measurements and
                    >they were actually a bit larger than my own measurements.
                    >
                    >But the pattern did not fit me! I couldn't button it. I asked a seamstress
                    >friend/mentor of mine about the problem and she told me to measure the
                    >pieces to see if they ran true to the finished garment ones.
                    >
                    >They didn't, which leaves me puzzled. I've never had that problem before
                    >with making clothing. Has anyone else ever experienced this?
                    >
                    >Michele

                    "Those Who Fail To Learn History
                    Are Doomed to Repeat It;
                    Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly --
                    Why They Are Simply Doomed.

                    Achemdro'hm
                    "The Illusion of Historical Fact"
                    -- C.Y. 4971

                    Andromeda






                    Yahoo! Groups Links









                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Sigrun Nilsen
                    Hi Cynthia, No, it was a Simplicity pattern that gave me so much trouble. I have used size 22 before and never had a fitting problem before this. My Mom also
                    Message 9 of 16 , Oct 16, 2004
                      Hi Cynthia,

                      No, it was a Simplicity pattern that gave me so much trouble. I have used size 22 before and never had a fitting problem before this. My Mom also suggested using a smaller seam allowance. I've been using the 5/8" seams until now and they were OK. I also re-measured myself and they haven't changed. I'll try again using a smaller seam allowance and see how if it fits better. Thanks for your advice!

                      Michele
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: gintzed23
                      To: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 3:50 PM
                      Subject: [TheCostumersManifesto] Re: Pattern Sizes




                      Hi Michele and Kathy:
                      Was the pattern a Kwik Sew? They most commonly only include 1/4 inch
                      seam allowances and in your typical fitted jacket that would account
                      for at least 3 inches of 'lost' size with just the additional seam
                      allowances taken. Years ago, I worked in a fabric/sewing store and
                      excess seam allowances were the most common reason for fitting
                      failures. Second most common was incorrect measuring of the subject
                      (or complete failure to measure)!
                      Cynthia
                      --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, K Murphy
                      <costumerkate@y...> wrote:
                      > Hi Michele:
                      >
                      > A couple thoughts on what may have happened (besides a
                      manufacturer's printing error.)
                      >
                      > Some patterns (such as Burda) do not include a seam allowance. If
                      you cut on the size 8 lines of a Burda pattern, you are cutting on
                      the stitching lines and the finished garment will be several inches
                      too small as a result. It's a good idea to always read all the
                      instructions first -- with the multi-size patterns that do not
                      include seam allowance, you need to trace the lines you want, not cut
                      the fabric along them. After you've traced the stitching lines, you
                      remove the pattern and add the seam allowance all around before
                      cutting.
                      >
                      > It's also possible that in comparing your measurements to the
                      pattern's measurements, you did not allow for ease. "Ease" is the
                      extra amount of fullness needed for a garment to go around the body,
                      close, and hang comfortably (usually a minimum 4" or more for a
                      jacket, even a tailored one -- so if your bust is 34", your minimum
                      finished garment measurement should be 38" or more.) Also remember
                      that most patterns print two sets of measurements -- the measurements
                      under the sizes on the pattern envelope are not the finished garment
                      measurements, but the suggested body measurements for each size.
                      Finished garment measurements tend to be printed on the pattern
                      pieces themselves, usually at the bustline, waistline, and hipline.
                      >
                      > Then there's the outside chance that you have a physical feature
                      (such as a waist larger than your bust) that the pattern manufacturer
                      does not consider typical.
                      >
                      > In any case, you can avoid the same problem in the future by
                      pinning the pattern together on the stitching lines and trying it on
                      before you cut anything out.
                      >
                      > If none of these reasons explain why your jacket was too small,
                      then I'd write the manufacturer (include a copy of your reciept if
                      you've still got it) and ask if they've had any similar complaints.
                      >
                      > Kate Murphy
                      >
                      > Sigrun Nilsen <drkfrau@v...> wrote:
                      > Hi All,
                      >
                      > I was trying to make a cotton flannel jacket and picked out a
                      pattern that I thought would fit me. I checked the finished garment
                      measurements and they were actually a bit larger than my own
                      measurements.
                      >
                      > But the pattern did not fit me! I couldn't button it. I asked a
                      seamstress friend/mentor of mine about the problem and she told me to
                      measure the pieces to see if they ran true to the finished garment
                      ones.
                      >
                      > They didn't, which leaves me puzzled. I've never had that problem
                      before with making clothing. Has anyone else ever experienced this?
                      >
                      > How can I know for sure that the garment will fit? I really loved
                      the fabric I picked out and now it's basically trashed. I also wasted
                      a whole two days of cutting and sewing two of these type jackets. It
                      was supposed to be somewhat tailored to fit but was two sizes too
                      small.
                      >
                      > Geez....
                      >
                      > Michele
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ---------------------------------
                      > Do you Yahoo!?
                      > vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Sigrun Nilsen
                      I didn t know about the sizing for B cups either. I lost weight too, and am now struggling to get a good fit. I m glad that I lost the weight also, but it s
                      Message 10 of 16 , Oct 16, 2004
                        I didn't know about the sizing for "B" cups either. I lost weight too, and am now struggling to get a good fit. I'm glad that I lost the weight also, but it's changed my whole wardrobe and I need new clothes ASAP. Everything I have, especially slacks, hang on me like a bag and look awful. I just recently bought two pairs of jeans in a size 18/ 20 and they fit me very well. So, that's why I can't understand my fitting dilemma. My measurements on patterns match a 24/26!

                        What is the 1" gridded stuff you talked about?

                        Michele
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Theresa Roden
                        To: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 9:13 AM
                        Subject: [TheCostumersManifesto] Need tips on a Shrinkable wardrobe (was Re: Pattern Sizes)


                        Thanks for the reminder about sizing for "B" cups. I'm going to have to be shopping for patterns (new wardrobe coming up due to healthy weight loss--about 50# over what I should). If anyone has suggestions, tips or tricks to create slacks and skirts that can be adjusted as I lose inches, they would be appreciated.

                        I've also found that the 1" gridded stuff the fabric stores sell is wonderful for tracing off patterns (especially multisized ones). Transparent enough to see through and get all the markings and size adjustments if you're like me and take one size on top and another on the bottom. Recently, when I had to tackle a pattern that had to be joined to make the full piece, this stuff was wonderful cuz I could trace a section then join it to the other part of the pattern and have the pattern piece with no taping.

                        Theresa R.



                        Pierre & Sandy Pettinger <costumrs@...> wrote:

                        We trace ALL our patterns before use - either onto tracing paper or
                        newsprint. (We get tracing paper in rolls that is used for drafting - our
                        local university bookstore has it cheapest, for the architecture
                        students. Newsprint is available from your local newspaper - most of them
                        sell ends of rolls for a minimal charge - ours is like 10 cents a
                        pound.
                        The comments about body measurements vs. finished measurements are right
                        on, also about the shrinking. However, the three major U.S. pattern
                        companies DO use a standard (and it's the same standard) for their sizing,
                        when creating their basic fitting sloper. They then can vary widely in how
                        much "standard" ease they include, both for "fitted" garments and for
                        looser ones. One thing to remember is that all sizes are based on a B cup
                        size - if you're larger than that, you need to go by your "high bust" or
                        chest measurement, not your full bust measurement. (Measure around the
                        body above the bust, under the arms, and across the shoulder blades.) If
                        you get a pattern by your full bust size, it will be WAY too big in the
                        neck and shoulder area (speaking from experience). It is easier to adjust
                        for a full bust than to change the neck and shoulder area.

                        Hope this helps.

                        Sandy
                        At 11:39 PM 10/13/2004, you wrote:

                        >I was trying to make a cotton flannel jacket and picked out a pattern that
                        >I thought would fit me. I checked the finished garment measurements and
                        >they were actually a bit larger than my own measurements.
                        >
                        >But the pattern did not fit me! I couldn't button it. I asked a seamstress
                        >friend/mentor of mine about the problem and she told me to measure the
                        >pieces to see if they ran true to the finished garment ones.
                        >
                        >They didn't, which leaves me puzzled. I've never had that problem before
                        >with making clothing. Has anyone else ever experienced this?
                        >
                        >Michele

                        "Those Who Fail To Learn History
                        Are Doomed to Repeat It;
                        Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly --
                        Why They Are Simply Doomed.

                        Achemdro'hm
                        "The Illusion of Historical Fact"
                        -- C.Y. 4971

                        Andromeda






                        Yahoo! Groups Links









                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


                        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        ADVERTISEMENT





                        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                      • Pierre & Sandy Pettinger
                        Because while the 3 major pattern companies at least start with a standardized size range, there is absolutely NO correspondence between patterns and
                        Message 11 of 16 , Oct 16, 2004
                          Because while the 3 major pattern companies at least start with a
                          standardized size range, there is absolutely NO correspondence between
                          patterns and ready-to-wear. There is also no standardization whatsoever in
                          ready-to-wear sizing. Companies have been making sizes larger over the
                          past 30 to 40 years, so what was a size 14 in the 1950's/60's is about a
                          size 8 now. It's an image thing - they believe women want the smaller
                          numbers, even though the actual body measurements haven't
                          changed. Therefore, pattern size numbers will almost always be bigger than
                          ready-to-wear size numbers for the same measurements.

                          Sandy

                          At 07:39 AM 10/16/2004, you wrote:
                          >I just recently bought two pairs of jeans in a size 18/ 20 and they fit me
                          >very well. So, that's why I can't understand my fitting dilemma. My
                          >measurements on patterns match a 24/26!
                          >
                          >Michele

                          "Those Who Fail To Learn History
                          Are Doomed to Repeat It;
                          Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly --
                          Why They Are Simply Doomed.

                          Achemdro'hm
                          "The Illusion of Historical Fact"
                          -- C.Y. 4971

                          Andromeda
                        • Cynthia Spilsted
                          Except for children s sizes where the reverse is true! Go figure - Your child (or the child that you are sewing for) might wear a RTW of size 12, but pattern
                          Message 12 of 16 , Oct 17, 2004
                            Except for children's sizes where the reverse is true! Go figure - Your child (or the child that you are sewing for) might wear a RTW of size 12, but pattern size could be as small as an 8! Measure and trust the sizing on the envelope back. Then, make notes as to difference in fit. You will find that the fitting differences will be quite consistent within the pattern company's stock and adjustments can then be made at the cutting stage. For example, Kwik Sew tends to have 'roomy' arms for their activewear - not a good look at all for dance and skating. I have made fitting notes for most of the major pattern companies regarding both children's and adult's patterns and have found that it saves a lot of frustration in the long term.
                            Cynthia

                            Pierre & Sandy Pettinger <costumrs@...> wrote:

                            Because while the 3 major pattern companies at least start with a
                            standardized size range, there is absolutely NO correspondence between
                            patterns and ready-to-wear. There is also no standardization whatsoever in
                            ready-to-wear sizing. Companies have been making sizes larger over the
                            past 30 to 40 years, so what was a size 14 in the 1950's/60's is about a
                            size 8 now. It's an image thing - they believe women want the smaller
                            numbers, even though the actual body measurements haven't
                            changed. Therefore, pattern size numbers will almost always be bigger than
                            ready-to-wear size numbers for the same measurements.

                            Sandy

                            At 07:39 AM 10/16/2004, you wrote:
                            >I just recently bought two pairs of jeans in a size 18/ 20 and they fit me
                            >very well. So, that's why I can't understand my fitting dilemma. My
                            >measurements on patterns match a 24/26!
                            >
                            >Michele

                            "Those Who Fail To Learn History
                            Are Doomed to Repeat It;
                            Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly --
                            Why They Are Simply Doomed.

                            Achemdro'hm
                            "The Illusion of Historical Fact"
                            -- C.Y. 4971

                            Andromeda






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                          • Theresa Roden
                            I ve always found it in the vicinity of the interfacing materials. At the moment I can t recall the exact commercial name. I ve always referred to it as
                            Message 13 of 16 , Oct 17, 2004
                              I've always found it in the vicinity of the interfacing materials. At the moment I can't recall the exact commercial name. I've always referred to it as pattern tracing material and the sales staff at the local Joanns or Hancocks have been able to find it for me.

                              Theresa

                              Sigrun Nilsen <drkfrau@...> wrote:

                              I didn't know about the sizing for "B" cups either. I lost weight too, and am now struggling to get a good fit. I'm glad that I lost the weight also, but it's changed my whole wardrobe and I need new clothes ASAP. Everything I have, especially slacks, hang on me like a bag and look awful. I just recently bought two pairs of jeans in a size 18/ 20 and they fit me very well. So, that's why I can't understand my fitting dilemma. My measurements on patterns match a 24/26!

                              What is the 1" gridded stuff you talked about?

                              Michele
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Theresa Roden
                              To: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 9:13 AM
                              Subject: [TheCostumersManifesto] Need tips on a Shrinkable wardrobe (was Re: Pattern Sizes)


                              Thanks for the reminder about sizing for "B" cups. I'm going to have to be shopping for patterns (new wardrobe coming up due to healthy weight loss--about 50# over what I should). If anyone has suggestions, tips or tricks to create slacks and skirts that can be adjusted as I lose inches, they would be appreciated.

                              I've also found that the 1" gridded stuff the fabric stores sell is wonderful for tracing off patterns (especially multisized ones). Transparent enough to see through and get all the markings and size adjustments if you're like me and take one size on top and another on the bottom. Recently, when I had to tackle a pattern that had to be joined to make the full piece, this stuff was wonderful cuz I could trace a section then join it to the other part of the pattern and have the pattern piece with no taping.

                              Theresa R.



                              Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote:

                              We trace ALL our patterns before use - either onto tracing paper or
                              newsprint. (We get tracing paper in rolls that is used for drafting - our
                              local university bookstore has it cheapest, for the architecture
                              students. Newsprint is available from your local newspaper - most of them
                              sell ends of rolls for a minimal charge - ours is like 10 cents a
                              pound.
                              The comments about body measurements vs. finished measurements are right
                              on, also about the shrinking. However, the three major U.S. pattern
                              companies DO use a standard (and it's the same standard) for their sizing,
                              when creating their basic fitting sloper. They then can vary widely in how
                              much "standard" ease they include, both for "fitted" garments and for
                              looser ones. One thing to remember is that all sizes are based on a B cup
                              size - if you're larger than that, you need to go by your "high bust" or
                              chest measurement, not your full bust measurement. (Measure around the
                              body above the bust, under the arms, and across the shoulder blades.) If
                              you get a pattern by your full bust size, it will be WAY too big in the
                              neck and shoulder area (speaking from experience). It is easier to adjust
                              for a full bust than to change the neck and shoulder area.

                              Hope this helps.

                              Sandy
                              At 11:39 PM 10/13/2004, you wrote:

                              >I was trying to make a cotton flannel jacket and picked out a pattern that
                              >I thought would fit me. I checked the finished garment measurements and
                              >they were actually a bit larger than my own measurements.
                              >
                              >But the pattern did not fit me! I couldn't button it. I asked a seamstress
                              >friend/mentor of mine about the problem and she told me to measure the
                              >pieces to see if they ran true to the finished garment ones.
                              >
                              >They didn't, which leaves me puzzled. I've never had that problem before
                              >with making clothing. Has anyone else ever experienced this?
                              >
                              >Michele

                              "Those Who Fail To Learn History
                              Are Doomed to Repeat It;
                              Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly --
                              Why They Are Simply Doomed.

                              Achemdro'hm
                              "The Illusion of Historical Fact"
                              -- C.Y. 4971

                              Andromeda






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                            • Avril Novelich
                              I didn t know about the sizing for B cups either. I lost weight too, and am now struggling to get a good fit. I m glad that I lost the weight also, but it s
                              Message 14 of 16 , Oct 22, 2004
                                "I didn't know about the sizing for "B" cups either. I lost weight
                                too,
                                and am now struggling to get a good fit. I'm glad that I lost the
                                weight also, but it's changed my whole wardrobe and I need new
                                clothes ASAP.
                                Everything I have, especially slacks, hang on me like a bag and look
                                awful. I just recently bought two pairs of jeans in a size 18/ 20 and
                                they fit me very well. So, that's why I can't understand my fitting
                                dilemma. My measurements on patterns match a 24/26!"

                                Congratulations on losing that weight! The difference in sizing from
                                store bought clothes and patterns is simply called "vanity sizing".
                                To flatter their customers the clothing companies call their size 12
                                an 8 and each company has their own measurements for "standard" sizes
                                (so there really isn't a standard per se). I recently saw an article
                                where a focus group for clothing companies measured 55,000 people!
                                All to get new measurements for clothing size standards. Oh another
                                thing...those clothing companies are still using measurements from
                                WWII!!


                                List Lurker (only because of my busy busy son)

                                Avril Novelich :)
                              • Theresa Roden
                                Because of the weight loss and trimming due to exercise, I had a friend take a set of basic measurements for me. I lost an 1-1/4 in my neck, 2-3/4 in the
                                Message 15 of 16 , Oct 22, 2004
                                  Because of the weight loss and trimming due to exercise, I had a friend take a set of basic measurements for me. I lost an 1-1/4" in my neck, 2-3/4" in the waist, and 2-1/4" in the hips since the last time I'd had measurements taken. The only place I haven't lost inches is in the bust.

                                  My size 20 jeans are too large and they are the smallest pair of pants I own. I have quite a stash of fabric and I'm willing to make some new clothes. But first, I'm going to go "window-shopping" with a friend whose judgement I trust in order to try out new styles and looks before I make the new stuff.

                                  I still have a ways to go to get down to where I really should be, but getting down past 180 was the first milestone. I was at 200 around the first of the year until recently, was only trying in fits and starts. Had a couple of life-changing experiences that motivated me to get serious and I really, really like the results I'm getting.

                                  Theresa

                                  Avril Novelich <gelflinggal@...> wrote:


                                  "I didn't know about the sizing for "B" cups either. I lost weight
                                  too,
                                  and am now struggling to get a good fit. I'm glad that I lost the
                                  weight also, but it's changed my whole wardrobe and I need new
                                  clothes ASAP.
                                  Everything I have, especially slacks, hang on me like a bag and look
                                  awful. I just recently bought two pairs of jeans in a size 18/ 20 and
                                  they fit me very well. So, that's why I can't understand my fitting
                                  dilemma. My measurements on patterns match a 24/26!"

                                  Congratulations on losing that weight! The difference in sizing from
                                  store bought clothes and patterns is simply called "vanity sizing".
                                  To flatter their customers the clothing companies call their size 12
                                  an 8 and each company has their own measurements for "standard" sizes
                                  (so there really isn't a standard per se). I recently saw an article
                                  where a focus group for clothing companies measured 55,000 people!
                                  All to get new measurements for clothing size standards. Oh another
                                  thing...those clothing companies are still using measurements from
                                  WWII!!


                                  List Lurker (only because of my busy busy son)

                                  Avril Novelich :)













                                  Yahoo! Groups Links









                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Sigrun Nilsen
                                  Theresa, congratulations on your weight loss! It isn t easy, I know. I lost from 220 lbs. to 208 lbs. recently. I still have to get down to at least 160 lbs.
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Oct 22, 2004
                                    Theresa, congratulations on your weight loss! It isn't easy, I know. I lost from 220 lbs. to 208 lbs. recently. I still have to get down to at least 160 lbs. which I feel very comfortable with and healthy. The recent weight loss has made me feel much better also. It's nice to know that I can get into a size 18/20 ready-to-wear clothes from size 24/26. I am just finishing the first of a series of new clothes for winter.

                                    It's coming along really nicely. It's a beautiful shade of lavender. I even learned how to put purple decorative topstitching on it. I can't wait to make more!

                                    My Best,
                                    Michele


                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: Theresa Roden
                                    To: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 5:09 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [TheCostumersManifesto] Need tips on a Shrinkable wardrobe (was Re: Pattern Sizes)


                                    Because of the weight loss and trimming due to exercise, I had a friend take a set of basic measurements for me. I lost an 1-1/4" in my neck, 2-3/4" in the waist, and 2-1/4" in the hips since the last time I'd had measurements taken. The only place I haven't lost inches is in the bust.

                                    My size 20 jeans are too large and they are the smallest pair of pants I own. I have quite a stash of fabric and I'm willing to make some new clothes. But first, I'm going to go "window-shopping" with a friend whose judgement I trust in order to try out new styles and looks before I make the new stuff.

                                    I still have a ways to go to get down to where I really should be, but getting down past 180 was the first milestone. I was at 200 around the first of the year until recently, was only trying in fits and starts. Had a couple of life-changing experiences that motivated me to get serious and I really, really like the results I'm getting.

                                    Theresa

                                    Avril Novelich <gelflinggal@...> wrote:


                                    "I didn't know about the sizing for "B" cups either. I lost weight
                                    too,
                                    and am now struggling to get a good fit. I'm glad that I lost the
                                    weight also, but it's changed my whole wardrobe and I need new
                                    clothes ASAP.
                                    Everything I have, especially slacks, hang on me like a bag and look
                                    awful. I just recently bought two pairs of jeans in a size 18/ 20 and
                                    they fit me very well. So, that's why I can't understand my fitting
                                    dilemma. My measurements on patterns match a 24/26!"

                                    Congratulations on losing that weight! The difference in sizing from
                                    store bought clothes and patterns is simply called "vanity sizing".
                                    To flatter their customers the clothing companies call their size 12
                                    an 8 and each company has their own measurements for "standard" sizes
                                    (so there really isn't a standard per se). I recently saw an article
                                    where a focus group for clothing companies measured 55,000 people!
                                    All to get new measurements for clothing size standards. Oh another
                                    thing...those clothing companies are still using measurements from
                                    WWII!!


                                    List Lurker (only because of my busy busy son)

                                    Avril Novelich :)













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                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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                                    ADVERTISEMENT





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