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Re: [TheCostumersManifesto] flamenco dresses

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  • Denise
    ... No, I do not think you were being unreasonable! Wages, cost-of-living, etc. is WAY different in South America compared to here! Denise
    Message 1 of 27 , Jul 16, 2004
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      on 7/16/04 9:46 AM, Sylvia Rognstad at sylvia@... wrote:

      > When I found the Folkwear pattern yesterday I emailed the woman and
      > told her the fabric/notions alone would probably come to about $50 and
      > that I couldn't make the dresses for less than $150. She was shocked.
      > She said she had dresses made in South America for $40 including
      > fabric! I really don't think I was being unreasonable, do you?
      >
      > Sylrog

      No, I do not think you were being unreasonable! Wages, cost-of-living, etc.
      is WAY different in South America compared to here!

      Denise
    • Spidra Webster
      You may not have been unreasonable at all. What Americans don t realize is that the clothing they buy is absurdly cheap due to sweatshop labor abroad.
      Message 2 of 27 , Jul 16, 2004
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        You may not have been unreasonable at all. What Americans don't
        realize is that the clothing they buy is absurdly cheap due to
        sweatshop labor abroad. Depending on what South American country she's
        buying the dress from (and she could be exaggerating about how cheap it
        would be), the maker of the dress could be getting a pittance for
        making it.

        But Americans don't think about this.

        On Jul 16, 2004, at 7:46 AM, Sylvia Rognstad wrote:

        > When I found the Folkwear pattern yesterday I emailed the woman and
        > told her the fabric/notions alone would probably come to about $50 and
        > that I couldn't make the dresses for less than $150. She was shocked.
        > She said she had dresses made in South America for $40 including
        > fabric! I really don't think I was being unreasonable, do you?
        >
        > Sylrog
      • K Murphy
        Sylvia: I would have told her $450. We re not living in South America. Sylvia Rognstad wrote:When I found the Folkwear pattern yesterday I
        Message 3 of 27 , Jul 16, 2004
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          Sylvia: I would have told her $450. We're not living in South America.

          Sylvia Rognstad <sylvia@...> wrote:When I found the Folkwear pattern yesterday I emailed the woman and
          told her the fabric/notions alone would probably come to about $50 and
          that I couldn't make the dresses for less than $150. She was shocked.
          She said she had dresses made in South America for $40 including
          fabric! I really don't think I was being unreasonable, do you?

          Sylrog

          On Jul 15, 2004, at 10:30 AM, sherman, talley and raymond wrote:

          > I saw a website on flamenco dress patterns for dancers, but for the
          > life of
          > me I can remember where it was. I needed one for a doll.
          > I think it was little over 12 yards of total fabric needed for all
          > five
          > ruffles and the semi tight fitting sheath dress..
          > try dancers patterns flamenco at google.
          > I think thats what I typed.
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From:
          > To:
          > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 11:28 AM
          > Subject: [TheCostumersManifesto] flamenco dresses
          >
          >
          > > Is anyone familiar with making flamenco dresses? I ran into a
          > woman who
          > > might be interesting my making some for her. I have a couple
          > questions as
          > > she wants a figure for yardage. I see from picture on the net that
          > the
          > > dresses are tight down to hip level where the ruffles start.
          > Because of
          > > the ruffles I cant tell what the shape of the skirt is under them.
          > Is it
          > > flared with gores or what? Any idea how much fabric such dresses
          > take?
          > > Are there any patterns our there? I can make my own but it would
          > save a
          > > lot of time for me and money for her if I could find a pattern.
          > >
          > > TIA,
          > > Sylrog
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
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        • ethnofusion
          not even in spain can you get a dress that cheap. a commercial purchased rehersal skirt w/no ruffles can be between 40- 60. (10 gore) it would be nice if there
          Message 4 of 27 , Jul 16, 2004
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            not even in spain can you get a dress that cheap.
            a commercial purchased rehersal skirt w/no ruffles can be between 40-
            60. (10 gore)

            it would be nice if there were more then just the folkwear pattern.
          • sherman, talley and raymond
            I thought your price was right on target. Many people think that because you sew, they can get things cheap, after all your just sewing! They havent a clue as
            Message 5 of 27 , Jul 16, 2004
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              I thought your price was right on target.
              Many people think that because you sew, they can get things cheap, after
              all your just sewing!
              They havent a clue as to whats involved in sewing, especially a costume!

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Spidra Webster" <spidra@...>
              To: <TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 10:46 AM
              Subject: Re: [TheCostumersManifesto] flamenco dresses


              > You may not have been unreasonable at all. What Americans don't
              > realize is that the clothing they buy is absurdly cheap due to
              > sweatshop labor abroad. Depending on what South American country she's
              > buying the dress from (and she could be exaggerating about how cheap it
              > would be), the maker of the dress could be getting a pittance for
              > making it.
              >
              > But Americans don't think about this.
              >
              > On Jul 16, 2004, at 7:46 AM, Sylvia Rognstad wrote:
              >
              > > When I found the Folkwear pattern yesterday I emailed the woman and
              > > told her the fabric/notions alone would probably come to about $50 and
              > > that I couldn't make the dresses for less than $150. She was shocked.
              > > She said she had dresses made in South America for $40 including
              > > fabric! I really don't think I was being unreasonable, do you?
              > >
              > > Sylrog
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Sylvia
              I know, but if I had, I would never have gotten the job and I need the money. as it is, I doubt I ll get it now.
              Message 6 of 27 , Jul 16, 2004
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                I know, but if I had, I would never have gotten the job and I need the
                money. as it is, I doubt I'll get it now.

                > From: K Murphy <costumerkate@...>
                > Reply-To: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 08:07:58 -0700 (PDT)
                > To: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [TheCostumersManifesto] flamenco dresses
                >
                > Sylvia: I would have told her $450. We're not living in South America.
                >
                > Sylvia Rognstad <sylvia@...> wrote:When I found the Folkwear pattern
                > yesterday I emailed the woman and
                > told her the fabric/notions alone would probably come to about $50 and
                > that I couldn't make the dresses for less than $150. She was shocked.
                > She said she had dresses made in South America for $40 including
                > fabric! I really don't think I was being unreasonable, do you?
                >
                > Sylrog
                >
                > On Jul 15, 2004, at 10:30 AM, sherman, talley and raymond wrote:
                >
                >> I saw a website on flamenco dress patterns for dancers, but for the
                >> life of
                >> me I can remember where it was. I needed one for a doll.
                >> I think it was little over 12 yards of total fabric needed for all
                >> five
                >> ruffles and the semi tight fitting sheath dress..
                >> try dancers patterns flamenco at google.
                >> I think thats what I typed.
                >> ----- Original Message -----
                >> From:
                >> To:
                >> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 11:28 AM
                >> Subject: [TheCostumersManifesto] flamenco dresses
                >>
                >>
                >>> Is anyone familiar with making flamenco dresses? I ran into a
                >> woman who
                >>> might be interesting my making some for her. I have a couple
                >> questions as
                >>> she wants a figure for yardage. I see from picture on the net that
                >> the
                >>> dresses are tight down to hip level where the ruffles start.
                >> Because of
                >>> the ruffles I cant tell what the shape of the skirt is under them.
                >> Is it
                >>> flared with gores or what? Any idea how much fabric such dresses
                >> take?
                >>> Are there any patterns our there? I can make my own but it would
                >> save a
                >>> lot of time for me and money for her if I could find a pattern.
                >>>
                >>> TIA,
                >>> Sylrog
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                >>
                >> ADVERTISEMENT
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                >>
                >> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheCostumersManifesto/
                >>
                >> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                >> TheCostumersManifesto-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >>
                >> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                >> Service.
                >>
                >>
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
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                >
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                > Yahoo! Groups Links
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              • Sylvia
                I know there are always people out there who will sew for cheaper. They probably arent too good, but some customers dont care that much. From: nanniemouse
                Message 7 of 27 , Jul 16, 2004
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                  I know there are always people out there who will sew for cheaper. They
                  probably arent too good, but some customers dont care that much.

                  From: "nanniemouse" <nanniemouse@...>
                  Reply-To: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 17:20:21 -0000
                  To: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [TheCostumersManifesto] Re: flamenco dresses


                  --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, Sylvia <sylvia@n...> wrote:
                  > I know, but if I had, I would never have gotten the job and I need the
                  > money. as it is, I doubt I'll get it now.
                  >

                  Don't be too sure. If she needs the dress, she won't find it any
                  cheaper. She might be trying to bargain you down.

                  Kathleen


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                • nanniemouse
                  ... Don t be too sure. If she needs the dress, she won t find it any cheaper. She might be trying to bargain you down. Kathleen
                  Message 8 of 27 , Jul 16, 2004
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                    --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, Sylvia <sylvia@n...> wrote:
                    > I know, but if I had, I would never have gotten the job and I need the
                    > money. as it is, I doubt I'll get it now.
                    >

                    Don't be too sure. If she needs the dress, she won't find it any
                    cheaper. She might be trying to bargain you down.

                    Kathleen
                  • Sylvia
                    I realize that, but I have lost out on work I really could have used before by pricing myself too high. I m not just dong this for extra cash, but to pay my
                    Message 9 of 27 , Jul 16, 2004
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                      I realize that, but I have lost out on work I really could have used before
                      by pricing myself too high. I'm not just dong this for extra cash, but to
                      pay my bills.

                      From: "Koumori" <sparrow@...>
                      Reply-To: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 17:30:33 -0000
                      To: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [TheCostumersManifesto] Re: flamenco dresses


                      $150 sounds on the low side to me. So many people expect costumers
                      to be able to make costumes for them based on the prices they pay for
                      clothes at the mall or even directly in the Third World - where a
                      seamstress may be paid pennies per hour. The temptation to undercut
                      our own prices just to get business from these people who don't
                      really understand what actually goes into making a custom outfit is
                      strong, but please stick to your guns or else you'll find yourself
                      undercutting prices again and again and ultimately selling yourself
                      for much less than your time and expertise are worth.

                      I sew primarily anime and other media recreations, and this is a HUGE
                      problem. High school and college kids make costumes on the side and
                      sell them on ebay for ridiculously low amounts just so they can make
                      a sale, and the rest of us are expected to match their prices.

                      Koumori

                      --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, Sylvia Rognstad
                      <sylvia@n...> wrote:
                      > When I found the Folkwear pattern yesterday I emailed the woman and
                      > told her the fabric/notions alone would probably come to about $50
                      and
                      > that I couldn't make the dresses for less than $150. She was
                      shocked.
                      > She said she had dresses made in South America for $40 including
                      > fabric! I really don't think I was being unreasonable, do you?
                      >
                      > Sylrog
                      >
                      > On Jul 15, 2004, at 10:30 AM, sherman, talley and raymond wrote:
                      >
                      > > I saw a website on flamenco dress patterns for dancers, but for
                      the
                      > > life of
                      > > me I can remember where it was. I needed one for a doll.
                      > > I think it was little over 12 yards of total fabric needed for
                      all
                      > > five
                      > > ruffles and the semi tight fitting sheath dress..
                      > > try dancers patterns flamenco at google.
                      > > I think thats what I typed.
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: <sylvia@n...>
                      > > To: <TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com>
                      > > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 11:28 AM
                      > > Subject: [TheCostumersManifesto] flamenco dresses
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > > Is anyone familiar with making flamenco dresses?  I ran into a
                      > > woman who
                      > > > might be interesting my making some for her.  I have a couple
                      > > questions as
                      > > > she wants a figure for yardage.  I see from picture on the net
                      that
                      > > the
                      > > > dresses are tight down to hip level where the ruffles start. 
                      > > Because of
                      > > > the ruffles I cant tell what the shape of the skirt is under
                      them. 
                      > > Is it
                      > > > flared with gores or what?  Any idea how much fabric such
                      dresses
                      > > take?
                      > > > Are there any patterns our there?  I can make my own but it
                      would
                      > > save a
                      > > > lot of time for me and money for her if I could find a pattern.
                      > > >
                      > > > TIA,
                      > > > Sylrog
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                      > >
                      > > ADVERTISEMENT
                      > > <lrec_companion_043004.gif>
                      > > <l.gif>
                      > >
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheCostumersManifesto/
                      > >  
                      > > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > > TheCostumersManifesto-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > >  
                      > > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                      Terms of
                      > > Service.
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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                    • Koumori
                      $150 sounds on the low side to me. So many people expect costumers to be able to make costumes for them based on the prices they pay for clothes at the mall
                      Message 10 of 27 , Jul 16, 2004
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                        $150 sounds on the low side to me. So many people expect costumers
                        to be able to make costumes for them based on the prices they pay for
                        clothes at the mall or even directly in the Third World - where a
                        seamstress may be paid pennies per hour. The temptation to undercut
                        our own prices just to get business from these people who don't
                        really understand what actually goes into making a custom outfit is
                        strong, but please stick to your guns or else you'll find yourself
                        undercutting prices again and again and ultimately selling yourself
                        for much less than your time and expertise are worth.

                        I sew primarily anime and other media recreations, and this is a HUGE
                        problem. High school and college kids make costumes on the side and
                        sell them on ebay for ridiculously low amounts just so they can make
                        a sale, and the rest of us are expected to match their prices.

                        Koumori

                        --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, Sylvia Rognstad
                        <sylvia@n...> wrote:
                        > When I found the Folkwear pattern yesterday I emailed the woman and
                        > told her the fabric/notions alone would probably come to about $50
                        and
                        > that I couldn't make the dresses for less than $150. She was
                        shocked.
                        > She said she had dresses made in South America for $40 including
                        > fabric! I really don't think I was being unreasonable, do you?
                        >
                        > Sylrog
                        >
                        > On Jul 15, 2004, at 10:30 AM, sherman, talley and raymond wrote:
                        >
                        > > I saw a website on flamenco dress patterns for dancers, but for
                        the
                        > > life of
                        > > me I can remember where it was. I needed one for a doll.
                        > > I think it was little over 12 yards of total fabric needed for
                        all
                        > > five
                        > > ruffles and the semi tight fitting sheath dress..
                        > > try dancers patterns flamenco at google.
                        > > I think thats what I typed.
                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > From: <sylvia@n...>
                        > > To: <TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com>
                        > > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 11:28 AM
                        > > Subject: [TheCostumersManifesto] flamenco dresses
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > > Is anyone familiar with making flamenco dresses?  I ran into a
                        > > woman who
                        > > > might be interesting my making some for her.  I have a couple
                        > > questions as
                        > > > she wants a figure for yardage.  I see from picture on the net
                        that
                        > > the
                        > > > dresses are tight down to hip level where the ruffles start. 
                        > > Because of
                        > > > the ruffles I cant tell what the shape of the skirt is under
                        them. 
                        > > Is it
                        > > > flared with gores or what?  Any idea how much fabric such
                        dresses
                        > > take?
                        > > > Are there any patterns our there?  I can make my own but it
                        would
                        > > save a
                        > > > lot of time for me and money for her if I could find a pattern.
                        > > >
                        > > > TIA,
                        > > > Sylrog
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        > >
                        > > ADVERTISEMENT
                        > > <lrec_companion_043004.gif>
                        > > <l.gif>
                        > >
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheCostumersManifesto/
                        > >  
                        > > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > > TheCostumersManifesto-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > >  
                        > > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                        Terms of
                        > > Service.
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Love3angle
                        High school and college kids make costumes on the side and ... make ... Pardon my language, but screw that! I personally think ebay has ruined regional
                        Message 11 of 27 , Jul 16, 2004
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                          <snip> High school and college kids make costumes on the side and
                          > sell them on ebay for ridiculously low amounts just so they can
                          make
                          > a sale, and the rest of us are expected to match their prices.
                          >
                          > Koumori<snip>

                          Pardon my language, but screw that! I personally think ebay has
                          ruined regional business in many industries. It used to be that you
                          had to have a certain level of expertise to build a business and gain
                          clientel. Now anyone can sell their beginner experiments and most
                          buyers don't think about the differences in quality, they just know
                          they "saw one just like this for 1/10 the price!" It makes us look
                          bad and ruins legitimate competition.


                          > > She said she had dresses made in South America for $40 including
                          > > fabric! I really don't think I was being unreasonable, do you?
                          > >
                          > > Sylrog

                          Another pet peeve of mine. Someone who can make a dress like that for
                          $40 is living in a place and a manner that can't scratch what
                          Americans pay to live. If they're charging $.20/hour, I can guarantee
                          you they're not paying $2000 in rent evey month!

                          This woman may very well be trying to "bargain" you down to a
                          ridiculous level and may never have gotten a dress for $40. But
                          whether she has or she hasn't, she sees nothing wrong with having her
                          clothes made by slave labor, here or abroad. I go out of my way, and
                          deny myself many things I'd like to have, for the principal of not
                          buying items manufactured in countries known to make products through
                          child labor or political prisoner labor, and the like. Sure, I'd like
                          to get all my baby clothes for less than $5 each, too, but not at the
                          expense of adding my dollars to a corrupt system to make government
                          officials fat.

                          I hear you that you need the money, but a job that cheep will never
                          make you a dime and it's not worth your dignity. Tell her to stuff it.

                          Alyxx
                        • sylvia@ntw.net
                          ... I emailed her that my figure was $250 and havent heard back from her. She was trying to get me to accept the $200 figure by telling me she d give me more
                          Message 12 of 27 , Jul 16, 2004
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                            >
                            > I hear you that you need the money, but a job that cheep will never
                            > make you a dime and it's not worth your dignity. Tell her to stuff it.
                            >
                            > Alyxx
                            >
                            >
                            I emailed her that my figure was $250 and havent heard back from her. She
                            was trying to get me to accept the $200 figure by telling me she'd give me
                            more business as she is a dance teacher.

                            But even at $200 per dress I would make $600 which is $600 more than I
                            have now and $600 that I need to pay my bills, so it's always a difficult
                            decision. I'm not trying to build up a clientele as home sewing is not
                            what I really love to do. I have sewn all my life both personally and
                            professionally and I'm good at it, but I prefer to devote my time to
                            costume designing for theatre, another job that pays even more poorly than
                            home sewing, but one I will accept for the love of it.
                            Which is why I need to bring in the home sewing jobs just to make ends
                            meet. It's easy to advise another not to undersell oneself but not always
                            possible to do so in this world. Some of us, especially us single women
                            without husbands to support us, have to take what we can get sometimes.

                            Sylrog>
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • IvannaBWealthy@aol.com
                            In a message dated 7/16/2004 1:17:29 PM Central Standard Time, jimmysdevoted@bellsouth.net writes: I thought your price was right on target. Many people think
                            Message 13 of 27 , Jul 16, 2004
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                              In a message dated 7/16/2004 1:17:29 PM Central Standard Time,
                              jimmysdevoted@... writes:
                              I thought your price was right on target.
                              Many people think that because you sew, they can get things cheap, after
                              all your just sewing!
                              They havent a clue as to whats involved in sewing, especially a costume!
                              Plus, do not forget this is custom made for her size. I wonder how much she
                              would have to spend to travel back to South America simply to buy one of these
                              less expensive dresses.... HMMMMMM. (sorry, I'm in an evil mood)


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Dianne & Greg Stucki
                              ... From: Love3angle To: Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 7:12 PM Subject:
                              Message 14 of 27 , Jul 17, 2004
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                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Love3angle" <alyxx.iannetta@...>
                                To: <TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 7:12 PM
                                Subject: [TheCostumersManifesto] Re: flamenco dresses


                                > <snip> High school and college kids make costumes on the side and
                                > > sell them on ebay for ridiculously low amounts just so they can
                                > make
                                > > a sale, and the rest of us are expected to match their prices.
                                > >
                                > > Koumori<snip>
                                >
                                > Pardon my language, but screw that! I personally think ebay has
                                > ruined regional business in many industries. It used to be that you
                                > had to have a certain level of expertise to build a business and gain
                                > clientel. Now anyone can sell their beginner experiments and most
                                > buyers don't think about the differences in quality, they just know
                                > they "saw one just like this for 1/10 the price!" It makes us look
                                > bad and ruins legitimate competition.


                                I sell on eBay. I sell there because I have four children at home and I
                                don't have the time to make enough items to merchant at events. I do NOT
                                sell beginner experiments.

                                Dianne
                              • K Murphy
                                Dear Sylvia: Please consider that unless she pays you cash, off her books (which I wouldn t bet on, as it s a legitimate business expense for her and she ll
                                Message 15 of 27 , Jul 17, 2004
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                                  Dear Sylvia:

                                  Please consider that unless she pays you cash, off her books (which I wouldn't bet on, as it's a legitimate business expense for her and she'll deduct it) you're not making $600 to pay your bills with. You'll have to report the income, and after state and federal taxes and federal social security taxes and paying for the pattern and materials you're looking at more like $200 for all that work --more than a full week's worth or work, from the sound of it. You can make better wages doing alterations for a dry cleaner.

                                  Please make sure your client understands the amount of labor involved, and break it out in an hourly wage for her if you have to.

                                  Believe me, I remember taking every job that came my way and needing every dime I could get my hands on, but just make sure you do the math before you say yes. And the "I'll give you more business" line should NOT be considered. First, she'll expect you to continue to give her the same very low prices (and you'll resent it), and second, it's been my experience that the additional work will never materialize.

                                  Kate

                                  sylvia@... wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I hear you that you need the money, but a job that cheep will never
                                  > make you a dime and it's not worth your dignity. Tell her to stuff it.
                                  >
                                  > Alyxx
                                  >
                                  >
                                  I emailed her that my figure was $250 and havent heard back from her. She
                                  was trying to get me to accept the $200 figure by telling me she'd give me
                                  more business as she is a dance teacher.

                                  But even at $200 per dress I would make $600 which is $600 more than I
                                  have now and $600 that I need to pay my bills, so it's always a difficult
                                  decision. I'm not trying to build up a clientele as home sewing is not
                                  what I really love to do. I have sewn all my life both personally and
                                  professionally and I'm good at it, but I prefer to devote my time to
                                  costume designing for theatre, another job that pays even more poorly than
                                  home sewing, but one I will accept for the love of it.
                                  Which is why I need to bring in the home sewing jobs just to make ends
                                  meet. It's easy to advise another not to undersell oneself but not always
                                  possible to do so in this world. Some of us, especially us single women
                                  without husbands to support us, have to take what we can get sometimes.

                                  Sylrog>

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                                • Sylvia Rognstad
                                  Well, my income is so low and since i have a home office I can take quite a few deductions, so I really havent had to pay much in the way of income taxes for
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Jul 17, 2004
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                                    Well, my income is so low and since i have a home office I can take
                                    quite a few deductions, so I really havent had to pay much in the way
                                    of income taxes for the past few years.

                                    But she didnt respond to my last email in which I firmly stated my fee
                                    of $250 per dress, so I guess I didnt get the job, which is fine with
                                    me. I know it would have been a big headache and I would have put in
                                    more hours than I had estimated, since I always do.

                                    Sylrog

                                    On Jul 17, 2004, at 11:36 AM, K Murphy wrote:

                                    > Dear Sylvia:
                                    >
                                    > Please consider that unless she pays you cash, off her books (which I
                                    > wouldn't bet on, as it's a legitimate business expense for her and
                                    > she'll deduct it) you're not making $600 to pay your bills with.�
                                    > You'll have to report the income, and after state and federal taxes
                                    > and federal social security taxes and paying for the pattern and
                                    > materials you're looking at more like $200 for all that work --more
                                    > than a full week's worth or work, from the sound of it. You can make
                                    > better wages doing alterations for a dry cleaner.
                                    >
                                    > Please make sure your client understands the amount of labor
                                    > involved, and break it out in an hourly wage for her if you have to.
                                    >
                                    > Believe me, I remember taking every job that came my way and needing
                                    > every dime I could get my hands on, but just make sure you do the math
                                    > before you say yes.� And the "I'll give you more business" line should
                                    > NOT be considered.� First, she'll expect you to continue to give her
                                    > the same very low prices (and you'll resent it), and second, it's been
                                    > my experience that the additional work will never materialize.
                                    >
                                    > Kate
                                    >
                                    > sylvia@... wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > I hear you that you need the money, but a job that cheep will never
                                    > > make you a dime and it's not worth your dignity. Tell her to stuff
                                    > it.
                                    > >
                                    > > Alyxx
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > I emailed her that my figure was $250 and havent heard back from
                                    > her.� She
                                    > was trying to get me to accept the $200 figure by telling me she'd
                                    > give me
                                    > more business as she is a dance teacher.
                                    >
                                    > But even at $200 per dress I would make $600 which is $600 more than I
                                    > have now and $600 that I need to pay my bills, so it's always a
                                    > difficult
                                    > decision.� I'm not trying to build up a clientele as home sewing is
                                    > not
                                    > what I really love to do.� I have sewn all my life both personally and
                                    > professionally and I'm good at it, but I prefer to devote my time to
                                    > costume designing for theatre, another job that pays even more poorly
                                    > than
                                    > home sewing, but one I will accept for the love of it.
                                    > Which is why I need to bring in the home sewing jobs just to make ends
                                    > meet.� It's easy to advise another not to undersell oneself but not
                                    > always
                                    > possible to do so in this world.� Some of us, especially us single
                                    > women
                                    > without husbands to support us, have to take what we can get
                                    > sometimes.
                                    >
                                    > Sylrog>
                                    > ����� �����
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                                  • Love3angle
                                    ... than I ... difficult ... not ... and ... poorly than ... ends ... always ... women ... sometimes. ... I hear ya and at $200/dress I d probably take
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Jul 19, 2004
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                                      <snip>
                                      >
                                      > But even at $200 per dress I would make $600 which is $600 more
                                      than I
                                      > have now and $600 that I need to pay my bills, so it's always a
                                      difficult
                                      > decision. I'm not trying to build up a clientele as home sewing is
                                      not
                                      > what I really love to do. I have sewn all my life both personally
                                      and
                                      > professionally and I'm good at it, but I prefer to devote my time to
                                      > costume designing for theatre, another job that pays even more
                                      poorly than
                                      > home sewing, but one I will accept for the love of it.
                                      > Which is why I need to bring in the home sewing jobs just to make
                                      ends
                                      > meet. It's easy to advise another not to undersell oneself but not
                                      always
                                      > possible to do so in this world. Some of us, especially us single
                                      women
                                      > without husbands to support us, have to take what we can get
                                      sometimes.
                                      >
                                      > Sylrog>
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      I hear ya' and at $200/dress I'd probably take the job, too. I meant
                                      that taking the job for something ridiculous, like less than $100 a
                                      dress wouldn't end up making you any money and that's what this is
                                      all about, right? She offered $40, you countered with $250, she
                                      countered with $200. That's not bad bargaining, if you ask me.

                                      $200 per dress is not a bad deal as long as you protect yourself in
                                      your contract. First, don't buy a thread before they sign a contract,
                                      and in that contract make sure you are specific about what they get
                                      for their $200, i.e. 2 fittings, 1 dress, no alterations after that
                                      without further funds, or something like that. If you're cutting the
                                      job that close to the bone (and sometimes we all have to, to get the
                                      work) just make sure they can't come back at you and make you remake
                                      the dress 10 times for it.

                                      That's all I'm saying. Good luck with it and let us know what
                                      happens! :-)

                                      Alyxx
                                    • Love3angle
                                      ... and I ... do NOT ... Oh boy. I specifically did NOT say that everyone who sells on eBay sells crap, and I make no moral judgments about why people
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Jul 19, 2004
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                                        <snip>
                                        > I sell on eBay. I sell there because I have four children at home
                                        and I
                                        > don't have the time to make enough items to merchant at events. I
                                        do NOT
                                        > sell beginner experiments.
                                        >
                                        > Dianne

                                        Oh boy.
                                        I specifically did NOT say that everyone who sells on eBay sells
                                        crap, and I make no moral judgments about why people do what they do -
                                        I have a family to feed, too.

                                        My point was that some people DO sell crap on eBay and that makes it
                                        difficult for people who sell QUALITY work to get a decent price for
                                        it, on eBay OR at an event. I'd be surprised if that hasn't been your
                                        experience, too.

                                        If you're at an event, you can pick up items at two booths and you
                                        can see directly why they are different prices. This one's better
                                        fabric, or lined, or hand embroidered instead of machined, or just
                                        overpriced and not worth it. When buying online, I think people have
                                        a tendency to weigh price much higher than they would other factors
                                        because they CAN'T hold it in their hand and see the quality. All
                                        they know is that this blue bodice is $30 and that one is $70. They
                                        may even be happy to buy and wear the $30 bodice until they get to
                                        the event and can see their bodice next to other bodices. Then they
                                        get disappointed and end up having wasted that $30 because they go
                                        and buy a $70 one anyway. It also sours them on buying online and
                                        weakens the customer pool.

                                        Many people make a living at eBay and more power to them, but because
                                        there is no natural market competition in the same way as the
                                        physical world, many people start selling their wares long before
                                        they develop the skills to make good work and that hurts the industry
                                        as a whole. "Educating your client" is a topic that gets mentioned
                                        rather regularly here, and unfortunately we now have to spend more
                                        time and energy doing just that because of the very nature of e-
                                        commerce. It's here to stay so that's how the business changes.

                                        Sorry if I ruffled any feathers, but this has been my experience in
                                        this business and is in no way a comment on the quality of work
                                        belonging to any specific person on this list.

                                        Alyxx
                                      • Sylvia Rognstad
                                        ... I initially said $200 but when she said she wanted the design changed I upped my price to $250. i guess $200 was her limit because I havent heard from her
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Jul 19, 2004
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                                          On Jul 19, 2004, at 10:21 AM, Love3angle wrote:

                                          > > >
                                          > I hear ya' and at $200/dress I'd probably take the job, too. I meant
                                          > that taking the job for something ridiculous, like less than $100 a
                                          > dress wouldn't end up making you any money and that's what this is
                                          > all about, right? She offered $40, you countered with $250, she
                                          > countered with $200. That's not bad bargaining, if you ask me.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > She didnt offer $40. Thats what she said she paid for dresses made in
                                          > South America.
                                          I initially said $200 but when she said she wanted the design changed I
                                          upped my price to $250. i guess $200 was her limit because I havent
                                          heard from her since. So I'm out $600 which I certainly could use, but
                                          I'm also free of the hassle I know those 4 dresses would have been.
                                          Plus, I'm not that desperate quite yet as I have my eye on what could
                                          be a very good full time costume shop manager position I'm hoping I'll
                                          get offered.

                                          Sylrog


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