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Garters in the 17th Century - Help!

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  • Nicola Boyd
    Hi! I m part of an English Civil War (Mid 1600s) society in Australia and I was wondering if anyone had any historical documentation or information that they
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 20 4:11 PM
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      Hi!

      I'm part of an English Civil War (Mid 1600s) society in Australia and
      I was wondering if anyone had any historical documentation or
      information that they could point me to on garters that held up
      stockings for men and women - specifically if they were buckled.

      At the moment all of our group ties their garters and no matter how
      well you do it and what kind of material is used, they fall down, I
      was hoping that at some point around this time people became smart
      enough to use square buckles to keep them up.

      Any information on when buckled garters might have been around would
      be wonderful. Even if you can point me towards some books where you
      have seen buckled garters (that are historically accurate) that would
      be fantastic.

      Many Thanks
      Nicola
    • Irmgart H
      wow... buckled garters, at least as far as leather ones are *really* old... I don t have dates, but I believe they are medieval. The badge of the Order of the
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 21 7:40 AM
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        wow... buckled garters, at least as far as leather ones are *really* old...
        I don't have dates, but I believe they are medieval. The badge of the Order
        of the Garter is buckled garters. The collar of the Order (as created by
        Henry VIII, a good while after the creation of the Order, which I *think*
        was Henry II) includes buckled garters, so they're at least early 16th
        century in England, but probably a good deal older than that.

        -Irmgart
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Nicola Boyd [mailto:nicolaboyd@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 7:11 PM
        To: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [TheCostumersManifesto] Garters in the 17th Century - Help!


        Hi!

        I'm part of an English Civil War (Mid 1600s) society in Australia and
        I was wondering if anyone had any historical documentation or
        information that they could point me to on garters that held up
        stockings for men and women - specifically if they were buckled.

        At the moment all of our group ties their garters and no matter how
        well you do it and what kind of material is used, they fall down, I
        was hoping that at some point around this time people became smart
        enough to use square buckles to keep them up.

        Any information on when buckled garters might have been around would
        be wonderful. Even if you can point me towards some books where you
        have seen buckled garters (that are historically accurate) that would
        be fantastic.

        Many Thanks
        Nicola


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • brattboy.rm
        I don t know about the garters, but wanted to ask you about where you get the patterns for your outfits. I m also interested in this time period, but I can
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 21 10:18 AM
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          I don't know about the garters, but wanted to ask you about where you
          get the patterns for your outfits. I'm also interested in this time
          period, but I can only find two patterns for the 1630ish fashion.

          Thanks
          Ashe'el

          --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, "Nicola Boyd"
          <nicolaboyd@h...> wrote:
          > Hi!
          >
          > I'm part of an English Civil War (Mid 1600s) society in Australia and
          > I was wondering if anyone had any historical documentation or
          > information that they could point me to on garters that held up
          > stockings for men and women - specifically if they were buckled.
          >
          > At the moment all of our group ties their garters and no matter how
          > well you do it and what kind of material is used, they fall down, I
          > was hoping that at some point around this time people became smart
          > enough to use square buckles to keep them up.
          >
          > Any information on when buckled garters might have been around would
          > be wonderful. Even if you can point me towards some books where you
          > have seen buckled garters (that are historically accurate) that would
          > be fantastic.
          >
          > Many Thanks
          > Nicola
        • Nicola Boyd
          Dear Ashe el, I hate to advertise another website when this one is so great, but have a look at The Renaissance Taylor
          Message 4 of 6 , Apr 22 9:14 PM
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            Dear Ashe'el,

            I hate to advertise another website when this one is so great, but
            have a look at
            The Renaissance Taylor

            http://www.vertetsable.com/demos_main.htm

            Under demonstrations on the left hand side there are a whole heap of
            instructions/pictures on how to draft your own patterns and make
            garments in this period. This is mostly what I use (although when
            making the shirt/chemise only cut the neck 4 inches at the front and
            2 at the back and don't bother with the neck gussets. I've found this
            works best).

            Hope this helps and please let me know if you want any more info on
            patterns for this period. I'll ask the experts of the group :-)

            Smiles
            Nicola



            --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, "brattboy.rm"
            <brattboy@r...> wrote:
            > I don't know about the garters, but wanted to ask you about where
            you
            > get the patterns for your outfits. I'm also interested in this time
            > period, but I can only find two patterns for the 1630ish fashion.
            >
            > Thanks
            > Ashe'el
            >
            > --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, "Nicola Boyd"
            > <nicolaboyd@h...> wrote:
            > > Hi!
            > >
            > > I'm part of an English Civil War (Mid 1600s) society in Australia
            and
            > > I was wondering if anyone had any historical documentation or
            > > information that they could point me to on garters that held up
            > > stockings for men and women - specifically if they were buckled.
            > >
            > > At the moment all of our group ties their garters and no matter
            how
            > > well you do it and what kind of material is used, they fall down,
            I
            > > was hoping that at some point around this time people became
            smart
            > > enough to use square buckles to keep them up.
            > >
            > > Any information on when buckled garters might have been around
            would
            > > be wonderful. Even if you can point me towards some books where
            you
            > > have seen buckled garters (that are historically accurate) that
            would
            > > be fantastic.
            > >
            > > Many Thanks
            > > Nicola
          • brattboy.rm
            Sweet :) I can t wait to get started. Maybe I m just mean, cuz I want to be the envie in all my lace. Love that stuff. SO.. a few more months and I shall
            Message 5 of 6 , Apr 23 9:49 AM
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              Sweet :) I can't wait to get started. Maybe I'm just mean, cuz I
              want to be the envie in all my lace. Love that stuff. SO.. a few
              more months and I shall share.

              Ashe'el


              --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, "Nicola Boyd"
              <nicolaboyd@h...> wrote:
              > Dear Ashe'el,
              >
              > I hate to advertise another website when this one is so great, but
              > have a look at
              > The Renaissance Taylor
              >
              > http://www.vertetsable.com/demos_main.htm
              >
              > Under demonstrations on the left hand side there are a whole heap of
              > instructions/pictures on how to draft your own patterns and make
              > garments in this period. This is mostly what I use (although when
              > making the shirt/chemise only cut the neck 4 inches at the front and
              > 2 at the back and don't bother with the neck gussets. I've found this
              > works best).
              >
              > Hope this helps and please let me know if you want any more info on
              > patterns for this period. I'll ask the experts of the group :-)
              >
              > Smiles
              > Nicola
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, "brattboy.rm"
              > <brattboy@r...> wrote:
              > > I don't know about the garters, but wanted to ask you about where
              > you
              > > get the patterns for your outfits. I'm also interested in this time
              > > period, but I can only find two patterns for the 1630ish fashion.
              > >
              > > Thanks
              > > Ashe'el
              > >
              > > --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, "Nicola Boyd"
              > > <nicolaboyd@h...> wrote:
              > > > Hi!
              > > >
              > > > I'm part of an English Civil War (Mid 1600s) society in Australia
              > and
              > > > I was wondering if anyone had any historical documentation or
              > > > information that they could point me to on garters that held up
              > > > stockings for men and women - specifically if they were buckled.
              > > >
              > > > At the moment all of our group ties their garters and no matter
              > how
              > > > well you do it and what kind of material is used, they fall down,
              > I
              > > > was hoping that at some point around this time people became
              > smart
              > > > enough to use square buckles to keep them up.
              > > >
              > > > Any information on when buckled garters might have been around
              > would
              > > > be wonderful. Even if you can point me towards some books where
              > you
              > > > have seen buckled garters (that are historically accurate) that
              > would
              > > > be fantastic.
              > > >
              > > > Many Thanks
              > > > Nicola
            • Joannah Hansen
              Hi, Ashe el, Who doesn t want to look amazing? Anyway... I am in the same group as Nicola. Some further info about patterns for you. I have found this site
              Message 6 of 6 , Apr 25 5:28 AM
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                Hi, Ashe'el,
                Who doesn't want to look amazing? Anyway...
                I am in the same group as Nicola. Some further info about patterns for you.
                I have found this site incredibly useful. Although its focus is Elizabethan, most of the information can be applied to the 17th century.
                - The Elizabethan Costuming Page
                http://www.costume.dm.net/content.html
                This site sells patterns (which I am dying to get - anything I don't have to draft and resize is my idea of heaven)
                - Reconstructing History
                http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/patterns/index.html
                This site also sells patterns. As far as I can tell, they have been taken directly from extant clothing (which is good) but the patterns come in the same *size* as the extant clothing, so lots of adjusting is needed. (I bought nearly their entire range when I found them a year or so ago.)
                - The Merchant Venturers
                http://www.themerchantventurers.co.uk/Index3.asp
                I also highly recommend the Renaissance Tailor.
                Happy costuming!
                Joannah.



                --- "brattboy.rm" <brattboy@...> wrote:
                Sweet :) I can't wait to get started. Maybe I'm just mean, cuz I
                want to be the envie in all my lace. Love that stuff. SO.. a few
                more months and I shall share.

                Ashe'el


                --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, "Nicola Boyd"
                <nicolaboyd@h...> wrote:
                > Dear Ashe'el,
                >
                > I hate to advertise another website when this one is so great, but
                > have a look at
                > The Renaissance Taylor
                >
                > http://www.vertetsable.com/demos_main.htm
                >
                > Under demonstrations on the left hand side there are a whole heap of
                > instructions/pictures on how to draft your own patterns and make
                > garments in this period. This is mostly what I use (although when
                > making the shirt/chemise only cut the neck 4 inches at the front and
                > 2 at the back and don't bother with the neck gussets. I've found this
                > works best).
                >
                > Hope this helps and please let me know if you want any more info on
                > patterns for this period. I'll ask the experts of the group :-)
                >
                > Smiles
                > Nicola
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, "brattboy.rm"
                > <brattboy@r...> wrote:
                > > I don't know about the garters, but wanted to ask you about where
                > you
                > > get the patterns for your outfits. I'm also interested in this time
                > > period, but I can only find two patterns for the 1630ish fashion.
                > >
                > > Thanks
                > > Ashe'el
                > >
                > > --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, "Nicola Boyd"
                > > <nicolaboyd@h...> wrote:
                > > > Hi!
                > > >
                > > > I'm part of an English Civil War (Mid 1600s) society in Australia
                > and
                > > > I was wondering if anyone had any historical documentation or
                > > > information that they could point me to on garters that held up
                > > > stockings for men and women - specifically if they were buckled.
                > > >
                > > > At the moment all of our group ties their garters and no matter
                > how
                > > > well you do it and what kind of material is used, they fall down,
                > I
                > > > was hoping that at some point around this time people became
                > smart
                > > > enough to use square buckles to keep them up.
                > > >
                > > > Any information on when buckled garters might have been around
                > would
                > > > be wonderful. Even if you can point me towards some books where
                > you
                > > > have seen buckled garters (that are historically accurate) that
                > would
                > > > be fantastic.
                > > >
                > > > Many Thanks
                > > > Nicola





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