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Re: [TheCostumersManifesto] Please do not leave, Donna

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  • Ana's Accoutremonts
    Well, you re not the Lone Ranger, Sylrog. I m presently grumpy from the 200+ worm messages that I am downloading and deleting daily; checking my email now
    Message 1 of 19 , Aug 24, 2003
      Well, you're not the Lone Ranger, Sylrog. I'm presently grumpy from
      the 200+ worm messages that I am downloading and deleting daily;
      checking my email now takes 1-2 HOURS, instead of 15 minutes. I really
      wish everyone would maintain a good antivirus software and firewall like
      I do, so these things wouldn't propagate. It makes me a lot less
      willing to suffer fools gladly.

      But more on topic, I sometimes wonder if there really are still people
      who don't know how to do a key word search. Of course, I was raised in
      the library card catalog system, got my first tech job with DEC, and
      surfed the DEDnet and the ARPAnet, and now I use the web for library,
      encyclopaedia, dictionary, Sears catalog, and garage sale, combined. So
      data base key word searches are hard wired in my neural system. I
      forget that there are folks who don't even know what Boolean logic is!
      ["and" and "or" searches!]

      Because I have a large splashy costume website (and made the mistake of
      offering to help folks), I get a lot of the "how do I find a pattern to
      make a Puritan dress" type questions. Some days, I'm indulgent and
      helpful. Other days, I'm grumpy. Donna just had the misfortune to be
      assertive on one of your grumpy days, Sylrog.

      Which brings me to my point. I don't think we want to be snooty and
      exclusive, "for professionals only", because that will severely limit
      the group. I stumbled into a "fabric conservator" discussion group, that
      is for professional antique clothing conservators (a specific,
      technical, certified profession, I gathered, from the remarks about
      untrained amateurs). I don't think they're going to suffer fools at
      all, let alone gladly. I also belong to a Buddhist "discussion" group
      that I only lurk, since the discussion appears to be way above my head,
      and no one has responded to my two (separate) postings. Sometimes you
      just gotta hold your water, as we used to say.

      But at the same time, we should recognize that the occassional total
      non-sewing non-costumer is going to stumble in and not realize where
      they are. Letting the non-costumers of the world pick our brains
      occassionally won't kill us. If we're not in the mood, perhaps
      following our mothers' advice and not saying anything if we can't say
      something nice, probably holds.

      And finally, one lesson I learned in my first month on the web is that
      some people are going to get their feelings hurt no matter what you do.
      Just like some will get mad, no matter what you do.

      And if anyone has a solution to THAT, I'd like to hear it!

      Ana



      Sylvia Rognstad wrote:

      > > Ok. I'm the insensitive, dysfunctional person on this list. I already
      > sent an apology privately to Donna but I guess I need to make it
      > publicly.
      >
      > What I also said to Donna was that some of us do tend to get our knickers
      > in a knot when we see, over and over again, lazy or uneducated people post
      > questions to lists just because they don't want to do the research
      > themselves. And note that I didn't chime in with my insensitive remark
      > the first time she posted her question. It was only after she posted it
      > again, not having received any responses, that it appeared that she may
      > have fallen into this category. Obviously she does not , but I didn't
      > have enough information to make that judgment.
      >
      > I have used this list and several others myself with varying degrees of
      > success so I certainly don't automatically condem someone who poses a
      > question. That's what we're here for. And I myself have been guilty of
      > using lists and the Internet at times in lieu of doing my own research.
      > Nowadays one can find so much info on the Net that one comes to expect to
      > find anything one needs there and gets frustrated when it isn't there.
      >
      > So I hope I will be excused by y'all for my apparently hurtful remarks and
      > I'll try not to stick my foot in my mouth again.
      >
      > Sylrog
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > In a message dated 8/23/2003 4:45:29 PM Central Standard Time,
      > > 79erkilo@... writes:
      > > Yes; I am well aware of what was available for research before the
      > > internet took over society, thank you.  And I am actually well
      > > educated enough that I read quite well.  But the nearest decent
      > > library is over 21 miles away, and the other reasons I don't make that
      > > drive very often are physical limitations which are unimportant to this
      > > issue.
      > >     I apologize if someone has got a bur under their
      > > saddle on this list, and maybe they think I deserve the cutting sarcasm
      > > and sly innuendo for something I have done or said.  If this is
      > > the issue here then I apologize, for what I have no idea, but I
      > > apologize anyway.  Look, I think this was another one of my
      > > biggest mistakes in life signing up on this list, so I'll just back on
      > > out and punt.
      > > Donna
      > > Donna, please do not let the insensitivity of other individuals stop you
      > > from doing those things you like to do and enjoying them with others
      > > that have the same interests. And one thing that I have learned about
      > > the Internet is that there is plenty of insensitivity. But we are only
      > > human and you should just ignore such inappropriate behavior. Believe
      > > me, if I had let such behavior dictate where and when I participated on
      > > the Internet I would have given up on the Internet long ago. But human
      > > insensitivity is nothing to fret over. I am a lurker in this group
      > > because I truly appreciate the information that I am able to acquire
      > > here. And I have found that it is far better tact to lurk in particular
      > > groups because of the elitism that pervades many of these groups. But
      > > that can't be helped. Humans just get that way. Vanity and egos are
      > > just a part of human mentality. Some have a bit of control over these
      > > attributes and others just lose themselves in them. Don't let it get to
      > > you. Ignore it for what it is, simple human dysfunctionalism. Stick
      > > with the group. There truly are many here that are very sincere and
      > > compassionate and do want to offer help. I value this group. But it is
      > > only the group that I value, individuals can be a bit of a pain, as you
      > > have seen. Little people have to create big issues to instill
      > > self-importance to boost low self-esteems. Please do not leave the
      > > group. It will truly be a lose that is
      > > missed...........................
      > >
      > >
      > > Fergus MacKessock
      > > Wandering Highlander
      > > Drunken Gnome #: 29
      > > Gnome Gname: Gneomorphic (Gneo) Gnome
      > > LNC/CPL in the Scottish Fencibles
      > > Hawser Monkey serving aboard The Dark Scorpion
      > > Booser
      > > Guardian of The Realm Beneath The Table
      > > Guide of The Way Through Fog
      > > "Onward Through The Fog"
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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      > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > > TheCostumersManifesto-unsubscribe@egroups.com
      > >
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      > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.


      --
      Ana Foscari
      Ana's Accoutremonts
      "We Fit EVERY Body!"
      http://www.sewfits.com
      (toll free) 1-888-SEW-FITS

      "Anger never ceases with anger,
      Anger is healed by love alone.
      Open your heart to love.
      Pray for Peace."





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Deb
      Ana........a suggestion that may help you with all the worm emails. In all your address books......the very first address should be: the name as
      Message 2 of 19 , Aug 25, 2003
        Ana........a suggestion that may help you with all the worm emails. In all your address books......the very first address should be: the name as "AAAAAA".......the email addy as "WormAlert @ somewhere.com". If a worm starts at your address book, this will be the first address attacked and since there is no such address it will be returned to the sender. This has worked so far for me. I was told by a friend to do this after I stupidly got a worm virus and had no idea what it was and passed it on to others. Hope this helps.
        ~Deb~






        Ana's Accoutremonts <ruthana@...> wrote:
        Well, you're not the Lone Ranger, Sylrog. I'm presently grumpy from
        the 200+ worm messages that I am downloading and deleting daily;
        checking my email now takes 1-2 HOURS, instead of 15 minutes. I really
        wish everyone would maintain a good antivirus software and firewall like
        I do, so these things wouldn't propagate. It makes me a lot less
        willing to suffer fools gladly.

        But more on topic, I sometimes wonder if there really are still people
        who don't know how to do a key word search. Of course, I was raised in
        the library card catalog system, got my first tech job with DEC, and
        surfed the DEDnet and the ARPAnet, and now I use the web for library,
        encyclopaedia, dictionary, Sears catalog, and garage sale, combined. So
        data base key word searches are hard wired in my neural system. I
        forget that there are folks who don't even know what Boolean logic is!
        ["and" and "or" searches!]

        Because I have a large splashy costume website (and made the mistake of
        offering to help folks), I get a lot of the "how do I find a pattern to
        make a Puritan dress" type questions. Some days, I'm indulgent and
        helpful. Other days, I'm grumpy. Donna just had the misfortune to be
        assertive on one of your grumpy days, Sylrog.

        Which brings me to my point. I don't think we want to be snooty and
        exclusive, "for professionals only", because that will severely limit
        the group. I stumbled into a "fabric conservator" discussion group, that
        is for professional antique clothing conservators (a specific,
        technical, certified profession, I gathered, from the remarks about
        untrained amateurs). I don't think they're going to suffer fools at
        all, let alone gladly. I also belong to a Buddhist "discussion" group
        that I only lurk, since the discussion appears to be way above my head,
        and no one has responded to my two (separate) postings. Sometimes you
        just gotta hold your water, as we used to say.

        But at the same time, we should recognize that the occassional total
        non-sewing non-costumer is going to stumble in and not realize where
        they are. Letting the non-costumers of the world pick our brains
        occassionally won't kill us. If we're not in the mood, perhaps
        following our mothers' advice and not saying anything if we can't say
        something nice, probably holds.

        And finally, one lesson I learned in my first month on the web is that
        some people are going to get their feelings hurt no matter what you do.
        Just like some will get mad, no matter what you do.

        And if anyone has a solution to THAT, I'd like to hear it!

        Ana



        Sylvia Rognstad wrote:

        > > Ok. I'm the insensitive, dysfunctional person on this list. I already
        > sent an apology privately to Donna but I guess I need to make it
        > publicly.
        >
        > What I also said to Donna was that some of us do tend to get our knickers
        > in a knot when we see, over and over again, lazy or uneducated people post
        > questions to lists just because they don't want to do the research
        > themselves. And note that I didn't chime in with my insensitive remark
        > the first time she posted her question. It was only after she posted it
        > again, not having received any responses, that it appeared that she may
        > have fallen into this category. Obviously she does not , but I didn't
        > have enough information to make that judgment.
        >
        > I have used this list and several others myself with varying degrees of
        > success so I certainly don't automatically condem someone who poses a
        > question. That's what we're here for. And I myself have been guilty of
        > using lists and the Internet at times in lieu of doing my own research.
        > Nowadays one can find so much info on the Net that one comes to expect to
        > find anything one needs there and gets frustrated when it isn't there.
        >
        > So I hope I will be excused by y'all for my apparently hurtful remarks and
        > I'll try not to stick my foot in my mouth again.
        >
        > Sylrog
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > In a message dated 8/23/2003 4:45:29 PM Central Standard Time,
        > > 79erkilo@... writes:
        > > Yes; I am well aware of what was available for research before the
        > > internet took over society, thank you.  And I am actually well
        > > educated enough that I read quite well.  But the nearest decent
        > > library is over 21 miles away, and the other reasons I don't make that
        > > drive very often are physical limitations which are unimportant to this
        > > issue.
        > >     I apologize if someone has got a bur under their
        > > saddle on this list, and maybe they think I deserve the cutting sarcasm
        > > and sly innuendo for something I have done or said.  If this is
        > > the issue here then I apologize, for what I have no idea, but I
        > > apologize anyway.  Look, I think this was another one of my
        > > biggest mistakes in life signing up on this list, so I'll just back on
        > > out and punt.
        > > Donna
        > > Donna, please do not let the insensitivity of other individuals stop you
        > > from doing those things you like to do and enjoying them with others
        > > that have the same interests. And one thing that I have learned about
        > > the Internet is that there is plenty of insensitivity. But we are only
        > > human and you should just ignore such inappropriate behavior. Believe
        > > me, if I had let such behavior dictate where and when I participated on
        > > the Internet I would have given up on the Internet long ago. But human
        > > insensitivity is nothing to fret over. I am a lurker in this group
        > > because I truly appreciate the information that I am able to acquire
        > > here. And I have found that it is far better tact to lurk in particular
        > > groups because of the elitism that pervades many of these groups. But
        > > that can't be helped. Humans just get that way. Vanity and egos are
        > > just a part of human mentality. Some have a bit of control over these
        > > attributes and others just lose themselves in them. Don't let it get to
        > > you. Ignore it for what it is, simple human dysfunctionalism. Stick
        > > with the group. There truly are many here that are very sincere and
        > > compassionate and do want to offer help. I value this group. But it is
        > > only the group that I value, individuals can be a bit of a pain, as you
        > > have seen. Little people have to create big issues to instill
        > > self-importance to boost low self-esteems. Please do not leave the
        > > group. It will truly be a lose that is
        > > missed...........................
        > >
        > >
        > > Fergus MacKessock
        > > Wandering Highlander
        > > Drunken Gnome #: 29
        > > Gnome Gname: Gneomorphic (Gneo) Gnome
        > > LNC/CPL in the Scottish Fencibles
        > > Hawser Monkey serving aboard The Dark Scorpion
        > > Booser
        > > Guardian of The Realm Beneath The Table
        > > Guide of The Way Through Fog
        > > "Onward Through The Fog"
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        > >
        > >
        > > ADVERTISEMENT
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > > TheCostumersManifesto-unsubscribe@egroups.com
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        > ADVERTISEMENT
        > click here
        > <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=259538.3760361.5018013.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1707300337:HM/A=1712983/R=0/SIG=11u38u3s2/*http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/hit?page=1374-105951838331032>
        >
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > TheCostumersManifesto-unsubscribe@egroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
        > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.


        --
        Ana Foscari
        Ana's Accoutremonts
        "We Fit EVERY Body!"
        http://www.sewfits.com
        (toll free) 1-888-SEW-FITS

        "Anger never ceases with anger,
        Anger is healed by love alone.
        Open your heart to love.
        Pray for Peace."





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • FergusMackessock@aol.com
        In a message dated 8/26/2003 1:07:50 AM Central Standard Time, ruthana@sewfits.com writes: And finally, one lesson I learned in my first month on the web is
        Message 3 of 19 , Aug 26, 2003
          In a message dated 8/26/2003 1:07:50 AM Central Standard Time,
          ruthana@... writes:
          And finally, one lesson I learned in my first month on the web is that
          some people are going to get their feelings hurt no matter what you do.
          Just like some will get mad, no matter what you do.

          And if anyone has a solution to THAT, I'd like to hear it!

          Ana
          For those of us that are not "professionals" I would like to apologize for my
          ignorance. I realize that it is your opinion that we must tow the line with
          you but we are only human and at times we do stray. We do not mean to. We do
          not wish to aggravate you. Well, some of us do not. We realize that due to your
          stature in your reality that we are a waste of time but we do hope that at
          times you will honor us with your wisdom and grace. And that you will tolerate us
          enough to offer a tidbit of your vast knowledge. If a flogging is in order
          for our transgressions, that could be interesting. ME FIRST!!!!!!!!! Please
          excuse us for being mere humans. It is not our fault. It is our bane. We will try
          to stay in line in the future. We will try not to disturb your reality.
          I return you all now to "The Real World ".........................Fergus


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • FergusMackessock@aol.com
          In a message dated 8/26/2003 2:02:23 AM Central Standard Time, cancer5101@yahoo.com writes: Ana........a suggestion that may help you with all the worm emails.
          Message 4 of 19 , Aug 26, 2003
            In a message dated 8/26/2003 2:02:23 AM Central Standard Time,
            cancer5101@... writes:
            Ana........a suggestion that may help you with all the worm emails. In all
            your address books......the very first address should be: the name as
            "AAAAAA".......the email addy as "WormAlert @ somewhere.com". If a worm starts at
            your address book, this will be the first address attacked and since there is no
            such address it will be returned to the sender. This has worked so far for me.
            I was told by a friend to do this after I stupidly got a worm virus and had
            no idea what it was and passed it on to others. Hope this helps.
            ~Deb
            I truly admire this approach. And it does work. I use it
            myself...............Fergus


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Ana's Accoutremonts
            May I suggest the following link to a very comprehensive links page? http://www.knowledgehound.com/topics/costumes.htm Very helpful for both professionals
            Message 5 of 19 , Aug 26, 2003
              May I suggest the following link to a very comprehensive links page?

              http://www.knowledgehound.com/topics/costumes.htm

              Very helpful for both "professionals" and novices...

              Ana


              FergusMackessock@... wrote:

              > In a message dated 8/26/2003 1:07:50 AM Central Standard Time,
              > ruthana@... writes:
              > And finally, one lesson I learned in my first month on the web is that
              > some people are going to get their feelings hurt no matter what you do.
              > Just like some will get mad, no matter what you do.
              >
              > And if anyone has a solution to THAT, I'd like to hear it!
              >
              > Ana
              > For those of us that are not "professionals" I would like to apologize
              > for my
              > ignorance. I realize that it is your opinion that we must tow the line
              > with
              > you but we are only human and at times we do stray. We do not mean to.
              > We do
              > not wish to aggravate you. Well, some of us do not. We realize that
              > due to your
              > stature in your reality that we are a waste of time but we do hope
              > that at
              > times you will honor us with your wisdom and grace. And that you will
              > tolerate us
              > enough to offer a tidbit of your vast knowledge. If a flogging is in
              > order
              > for our transgressions, that could be interesting. ME FIRST!!!!!!!!!
              > Please
              > excuse us for being mere humans. It is not our fault. It is our bane.
              > We will try
              > to stay in line in the future. We will try not to disturb your reality.
              > I return you all now to "The Real World ".........................Fergus
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > ADVERTISEMENT
              > click here
              > <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=251812.3170658.4537139.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1707300337:HM/A=1693353/R=0/SIG=11t71ok4g/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60178294&partid=3170658>
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > TheCostumersManifesto-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
              > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.


              --
              Ana Foscari
              Ana's Accoutremonts
              "We Fit EVERY Body!"
              http://www.sewfits.com
              (toll free) 1-888-SEW-FITS

              "Anger never ceases with anger,
              Anger is healed by love alone.
              Open your heart to love.
              Pray for Peace."





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • peggy salvail
              so how do you do this aaaa@yahoo.com? as the first addresse Peggy ... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use
              Message 6 of 19 , Aug 28, 2003
                so how do you do this aaaa@...? as the first addresse
                Peggy
                --- FergusMackessock@... wrote:
                > In a message dated 8/26/2003 2:02:23 AM Central Standard Time,
                > cancer5101@... writes:
                > Ana........a suggestion that may help you with all the worm emails. In
                > all
                > your address books......the very first address should be: the name as
                > "AAAAAA".......the email addy as "WormAlert @ somewhere.com". If a
                > worm starts at
                > your address book, this will be the first address attacked and since
                > there is no
                > such address it will be returned to the sender. This has worked so far
                > for me.
                > I was told by a friend to do this after I stupidly got a worm virus and
                > had
                > no idea what it was and passed it on to others. Hope this helps.
                > ~Deb
                > I truly admire this approach. And it does work. I use it
                > myself...............Fergus
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >


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              • peggy salvail
                ok ty donna i got it now sometimes I can be so ...... puterstupid lolo take care all Love Peggy ... === message truncated ===
                Message 7 of 19 , Aug 28, 2003
                  ok ty donna i got it now sometimes I can be so ...... puterstupid lolo
                  take care all Love Peggy


                  --- Deb <cancer5101@...> wrote:
                  > Ana........a suggestion that may help you with all the worm emails. In
                  > all your address books......the very first address should be: the name
                  > as "AAAAAA".......the email addy as "WormAlert @ somewhere.com". If a
                  > worm starts at your address book, this will be the first address
                  > attacked and since there is no such address it will be returned to the
                  > sender. This has worked so far for me. I was told by a friend to do this
                  > after I stupidly got a worm virus and had no idea what it was and passed
                  > it on to others. Hope this helps.
                  > ~Deb~
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Ana's Accoutremonts <ruthana@...> wrote:
                  > Well, you're not the Lone Ranger, Sylrog. I'm presently grumpy from
                  > the 200+ worm messages that I am downloading and deleting daily;
                  > checking my email now takes 1-2 HOURS, instead of 15 minutes. I really
                  > wish everyone would maintain a good antivirus software and firewall like
                  >
                  > I do, so these things wouldn't propagate. It makes me a lot less
                  > willing to suffer fools gladly.
                  >
                  > But more on topic, I sometimes wonder if there really are still people
                  > who don't know how to do a key word search. Of course, I was raised in
                  > the library card catalog system, got my first tech job with DEC, and
                  > surfed the DEDnet and the ARPAnet, and now I use the web for library,
                  > encyclopaedia, dictionary, Sears catalog, and garage sale, combined. So
                  >
                  > data base key word searches are hard wired in my neural system. I
                  > forget that there are folks who don't even know what Boolean logic is!
                  > ["and" and "or" searches!]
                  >
                  > Because I have a large splashy costume website (and made the mistake of
                  > offering to help folks), I get a lot of the "how do I find a pattern to
                  > make a Puritan dress" type questions. Some days, I'm indulgent and
                  > helpful. Other days, I'm grumpy. Donna just had the misfortune to be
                  > assertive on one of your grumpy days, Sylrog.
                  >
                  > Which brings me to my point. I don't think we want to be snooty and
                  > exclusive, "for professionals only", because that will severely limit
                  > the group. I stumbled into a "fabric conservator" discussion group, that
                  >
                  > is for professional antique clothing conservators (a specific,
                  > technical, certified profession, I gathered, from the remarks about
                  > untrained amateurs). I don't think they're going to suffer fools at
                  > all, let alone gladly. I also belong to a Buddhist "discussion" group
                  > that I only lurk, since the discussion appears to be way above my head,
                  > and no one has responded to my two (separate) postings. Sometimes you
                  > just gotta hold your water, as we used to say.
                  >
                  > But at the same time, we should recognize that the occassional total
                  > non-sewing non-costumer is going to stumble in and not realize where
                  > they are. Letting the non-costumers of the world pick our brains
                  > occassionally won't kill us. If we're not in the mood, perhaps
                  > following our mothers' advice and not saying anything if we can't say
                  > something nice, probably holds.
                  >
                  > And finally, one lesson I learned in my first month on the web is that
                  > some people are going to get their feelings hurt no matter what you do.
                  > Just like some will get mad, no matter what you do.
                  >
                  > And if anyone has a solution to THAT, I'd like to hear it!
                  >
                  > Ana
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Sylvia Rognstad wrote:
                  >
                  > > > Ok. I'm the insensitive, dysfunctional person on this list. I
                  > already
                  > > sent an apology privately to Donna but I guess I need to make it
                  > > publicly.
                  > >
                  > > What I also said to Donna was that some of us do tend to get our
                  > knickers
                  > > in a knot when we see, over and over again, lazy or uneducated people
                  > post
                  > > questions to lists just because they don't want to do the research
                  > > themselves. And note that I didn't chime in with my insensitive
                  > remark
                  > > the first time she posted her question. It was only after she posted
                  > it
                  > > again, not having received any responses, that it appeared that she
                  > may
                  > > have fallen into this category. Obviously she does not , but I didn't
                  > > have enough information to make that judgment.
                  > >
                  > > I have used this list and several others myself with varying degrees
                  > of
                  > > success so I certainly don't automatically condem someone who poses a
                  > > question. That's what we're here for. And I myself have been guilty
                  > of
                  > > using lists and the Internet at times in lieu of doing my own
                  > research.
                  > > Nowadays one can find so much info on the Net that one comes to
                  > expect to
                  > > find anything one needs there and gets frustrated when it isn't there.
                  > >
                  > > So I hope I will be excused by y'all for my apparently hurtful remarks
                  > and
                  > > I'll try not to stick my foot in my mouth again.
                  > >
                  > > Sylrog
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > In a message dated 8/23/2003 4:45:29 PM Central Standard Time,
                  > > > 79erkilo@... writes:
                  > > > Yes; I am well aware of what was available for research before the
                  > > > internet took over society, thank you.  And I am actually well
                  > > > educated enough that I read quite well.  But the nearest
                  > decent
                  > > > library is over 21 miles away, and the other reasons I don't make
                  > that
                  > > > drive very often are physical limitations which are unimportant to
                  > this
                  > > > issue.
                  > > >     I apologize if someone has got a bur under their
                  > > > saddle on this list, and maybe they think I deserve the cutting
                  > sarcasm
                  > > > and sly innuendo for something I have done or said.  If this
                  > is
                  > > > the issue here then I apologize, for what I have no idea, but I
                  > > > apologize anyway.  Look, I think this was another one of my
                  > > > biggest mistakes in life signing up on this list, so I'll just back
                  > on
                  > > > out and punt.
                  > > > Donna
                  > > > Donna, please do not let the insensitivity of other individuals stop
                  > you
                  > > > from doing those things you like to do and enjoying them with
                  > others
                  > > > that have the same interests. And one thing that I have learned
                  > about
                  > > > the Internet is that there is plenty of insensitivity. But we are
                  > only
                  > > > human and you should just ignore such inappropriate behavior.
                  > Believe
                  > > > me, if I had let such behavior dictate where and when I
                  > participated on
                  > > > the Internet I would have given up on the Internet long ago. But
                  > human
                  > > > insensitivity is nothing to fret over. I am a lurker in this group
                  > > > because I truly appreciate the information that I am able to
                  > acquire
                  > > > here. And I have found that it is far better tact to lurk in
                  > particular
                  > > > groups because of the elitism that pervades many of these groups.
                  > But
                  > > > that can't be helped. Humans just get that way. Vanity and egos are
                  > > > just a part of human mentality. Some have a bit of control over
                  > these
                  > > > attributes and others just lose themselves in them. Don't let it
                  > get to
                  > > > you. Ignore it for what it is, simple human dysfunctionalism. Stick
                  > > > with the group. There truly are many here that are very sincere and
                  > > > compassionate and do want to offer help. I value this group. But it
                  > is
                  > > > only the group that I value, individuals can be a bit of a pain, as
                  > you
                  > > > have seen. Little people have to create big issues to instill
                  > > > self-importance to boost low self-esteems. Please do not leave the
                  > > > group. It will truly be a lose that is
                  > > > missed...........................
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Fergus MacKessock
                  > > > Wandering Highlander
                  > > > Drunken Gnome #: 29
                  > > > Gnome Gname: Gneomorphic (Gneo) Gnome
                  > > > LNC/CPL in the Scottish Fencibles
                  > > > Hawser Monkey serving aboard The Dark Scorpion
                  > > > Booser
                  > > > Guardian of The Realm Beneath The Table
                  > > > Guide of The Way Through Fog
                  > > > "Onward Through The Fog"
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  > > >
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                  > > > ADVERTISEMENT
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  >
                  === message truncated ===


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                • Deb
                  Peggy...it s very simple to do. In all your address books add this address...............the name should be AAAAAA and the email address should be listed as
                  Message 8 of 19 , Aug 28, 2003
                    Peggy...it's very simple to do. In all your address books add this address...............the name should be 'AAAAAA' and the email address should be listed as 'WormAlert@...' If added right, this addy will appear as the first one in your address book and , as i said before, if a worm attacks your address book it will hit this addy forst and since there is no such addy, it will be sent right back to the person who sent it in the first place. I have had no trouble since i started doing this. If you have any problems you are more than welcome to email me privately.
                    Deb

                    peggy salvail <psalvail@...> wrote:
                    so how do you do this aaaa@...? as the first addresse
                    Peggy
                    --- FergusMackessock@... wrote:
                    > In a message dated 8/26/2003 2:02:23 AM Central Standard Time,
                    > cancer5101@... writes:
                    > Ana........a suggestion that may help you with all the worm emails. In
                    > all
                    > your address books......the very first address should be: the name as
                    > "AAAAAA".......the email addy as "WormAlert @ somewhere.com". If a
                    > worm starts at
                    > your address book, this will be the first address attacked and since
                    > there is no
                    > such address it will be returned to the sender. This has worked so far
                    > for me.
                    > I was told by a friend to do this after I stupidly got a worm virus and
                    > had
                    > no idea what it was and passed it on to others. Hope this helps.
                    > ~Deb
                    > I truly admire this approach. And it does work. I use it
                    > myself...............Fergus
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >


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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • FergusMackessock@aol.com
                    In a message dated 8/29/2003 2:38:53 AM Central Standard Time, ruthana@sewfits.com writes: May I suggest the following link to a very comprehensive links page?
                    Message 9 of 19 , Aug 29, 2003
                      In a message dated 8/29/2003 2:38:53 AM Central Standard Time,
                      ruthana@... writes:
                      May I suggest the following link to a very comprehensive links page?

                      http://www.knowledgehound.com/topics/costumes.htm

                      Very helpful for both "professionals" and novices...

                      Ana
                      Outstanding ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Thanks Ana........It is a great site and we
                      greatly appreciate it. Thanks for the link..................


                      Fergus MacKessock
                      Wandering Highlander
                      Drunken Gnome #: 29
                      Gnome Gname: Gneomorphic (Gneo) Gnome
                      LNC/CPL in the Scottish Fencibles
                      Hawser Monkey serving aboard The Dark Scorpion
                      Booser
                      Guardian of The Realm Beneath The Table
                      Guide of The Way Through Fog
                      "Onward Through The Fog"


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Sylvia
                      on 8/24/03 4:19 PM, Ana s Accoutremonts at ruthana@sewfits.com wrote: Well, you re not the Lone Ranger, Sylrog. I m presently grumpy from the 200+ worm
                      Message 10 of 19 , Sep 1, 2003
                        on 8/24/03 4:19 PM, Ana's Accoutremonts at ruthana@... wrote:

                        Well, you're not the Lone Ranger, Sylrog. I'm presently grumpy from
                        the 200+ worm messages that I am downloading and deleting daily;
                        checking my email now takes 1-2 HOURS, instead of 15 minutes. I really
                        wish everyone would maintain a good antivirus software and firewall like
                        I do, so these things wouldn't propagate. It makes me a lot less
                        willing to suffer fools gladly.

                        Perhaps this is off-topic, but I too am getting at least a hundred messages
                        a day with the subject of "My details" or "re my details" or "Wicked
                        screensaver" or "That movie". The only text in them is "See the attached
                        file for details". I never open the attachment. Are these the result of a
                        worm? If so, will they ever stop?

                        Sylrog




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Sylvia
                        I m inquiring again about business contracts that some of you may use. All of a sudden, I m getting practically inundated with requests for me to sew garments
                        Message 11 of 19 , Sep 1, 2003
                          I'm inquiring again about business contracts that some of you may use. All
                          of a sudden, I'm getting practically inundated with requests for me to sew
                          garments or home furnishings for people, and I think I should have a
                          contract. I downloaded the one that Ana's Accoutrements so generously
                          supplied for us, but I think I need one with more specifics. I'm not even
                          sure what I'm looking for, but something that would help to keep me from
                          getting into the kind of trouble that another member brought up recently who
                          was hired to make a frock coat for a gentleman.

                          Any suggestions of things to include?

                          TIA, Sylrog
                        • Ana's Accoutremonts
                          In addition to my contract, I draw a detailed sketch, and write a specification description, which includes all the significant design features. How much to
                          Message 12 of 19 , Sep 2, 2003
                            In addition to my contract, I draw a detailed sketch, and write a
                            "specification" description, which includes all the significant design
                            features. How much to include is a judgment call, but more is always
                            better. I often engage in email discussion with the client over several
                            weeks before taking the order, and I incorporate each choice and change
                            that the client makes, as we go. Word processing makes this easier, and
                            I refer to the sketch in the Work Order (written description) and my
                            contract refers to the Work Order. I not only send a final copy by
                            email when it's time for the Deposit, I also send a printed copy with
                            the finished garment. This way the client doesn't rely on impression or
                            memory if something doesn't meet expectations. I've attached a copy of
                            the work order and sketch for "Santa" that I'm working on now. It's
                            isn't very detailed, but the client waited 6 months for a quote, and
                            impressed me as very easy going.

                            In 15 years in business, I've found that every couple of years, I have a
                            problem with a client. I've learned that prevention is the best
                            medicine--sensing that the person is not decisive, or that they are
                            basically angry or dissatisfied personalities. But I still occasionally
                            get caught up with someone who is impossible to please. Since I have a
                            long line of orders waiting, I find that after a couple of attempts to
                            satisfy the client, simply refunding 50% and letting them keep the
                            garment cuts my losses. Money I can replace--time is priceless.
                            Emotional energy is even more priceless. I think it's better to be
                            happy and working with pleasant clients, than to try to prove who is
                            right or who is wrong.

                            It helps that I don't use a strong selling style. About half the time,
                            the client determines when it's time to place the order. If our design
                            discussion comes to a stall, and they haven't brought up payment, I then
                            tell them that the next step is for them to send me the deposit so I can
                            book their order, buy their materials, and get their measurements. This
                            gives them a final opportunity to bow out with little embarrassment.
                            About 25-30% do so. Although it's frustrating to have put that much
                            work into a quote and not get paid, I'd rather do that than end up with
                            a dissatisfied client, or one who takes forever to pay.

                            Another lesson I'm learning as I write this: if the costume is for a
                            special event, such as as convention, and the timing doesn't work out
                            (fabric not available, etc) for that event, be very careful booking the
                            order anyway, even if the client wants it. When they come back from the
                            event, there will be little incentive on their part to pay for the
                            finished costume. After all, the next event will probably be several
                            months away. I'm currently waiting on the last $100 payment for a
                            costume I finished six weeks ago. I'm about to invoke the COD clause in
                            my contract, but I don't want to, because part of me still wants to
                            salvage the client for repeat orders. Why I don't know, since if she
                            does this once, she most likely will do it again. But there is always
                            that feeling that the nonpaying "bird in the hand" is still "in the
                            hand"....

                            There is no magic bullet, but using a detailed, personal process helps
                            establish an emotional connection with the client. This gives them an
                            incentive to be more realistic, than if it is an impersonal transaction.

                            Hope this helps,

                            Ana

                            Sylvia wrote:

                            > I'm inquiring again about business contracts that some of you may
                            > use. All
                            > of a sudden, I'm getting practically inundated with requests for me to sew
                            > garments or home furnishings for people, and I think I should have a
                            > contract. I downloaded the one that Ana's Accoutrements so generously
                            > supplied for us, but I think I need one with more specifics. I'm not even
                            > sure what I'm looking for, but something that would help to keep me from
                            > getting into the kind of trouble that another member brought up
                            > recently who
                            > was hired to make a frock coat for a gentleman.
                            >
                            > Any suggestions of things to include?
                            >
                            > TIA, Sylrog
                            >
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                            --
                            Ana Foscari
                            Ana's Accoutremonts
                            "We Fit EVERY Body!"
                            http://www.sewfits.com
                            (toll free) 1-888-SEW-FITS

                            "Anger never ceases with anger,
                            Anger is healed by love alone.
                            Open your heart to love.
                            Pray for Peace."





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