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Shoe coloring...

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  • Curtis
    Any recommendations on the best technique to dye pointe shoes? I need to make a pair deep red for a show in a week and a half. The one show I ve worked in
    Message 1 of 25 , Feb 4, 2009
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      Any recommendations on the best technique to dye pointe shoes? I need
      to make a pair deep red for a show in a week and a half. The one show
      I've worked in the past where we did this, it was done with spray
      paint, but I was less that thrilled with the results (the number of
      coats of paint required to build up an even color also built up and
      obliterated the satiny finish of the shoes...)
    • Michelle Davidson
      A friend of mine who works for the San Jose Ballet tells me they use Evangeline Slipper Dye.  So far I have been able to find very few sources on the web, but
      Message 2 of 25 , Feb 4, 2009
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        A friend of mine who works for the San Jose Ballet tells me they use Evangeline Slipper Dye.  So far I have been able to find very few sources on the web, but maybe you will have better luck.  I will contact my friend again and see if I can find out where they purchase it.
        Michelle
        PS She also told me to mix Rit dye with rubbing alcohol until you get a thin liquid and then paint it on the shoes using a dauber.



        --- On Wed, 2/4/09, Curtis <gckidd@...> wrote:
        From: Curtis <gckidd@...>
        Subject: [TheCostumersManifesto] Shoe coloring...
        To: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 12:30 PM












        Any recommendations on the best technique to dye pointe shoes? I need

        to make a pair deep red for a show in a week and a half. The one show

        I've worked in the past where we did this, it was done with spray

        paint, but I was less that thrilled with the results (the number of

        coats of paint required to build up an even color also built up and

        obliterated the satiny finish of the shoes...)


































        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Deborah Borlase
        Do NOT use Rit dye. The results will be disappointing at best. I suggest you contact Dharma Trading & speak to someone there. They have fabulous dyes, and
        Message 3 of 25 , Feb 4, 2009
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          Do NOT use Rit dye. The results will be disappointing at best. I
          suggest you contact Dharma Trading & speak to someone there. They
          have fabulous dyes, and are experts in the field. I have used
          Porcion dyes on silk fabric and been very happy with the result, but
          you're using it on a completed product, so I think you need to
          discuss it with them.

          Their customer service number is 800-542-5227

          Good luck.

          Deborah



          --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, Michelle Davidson
          <adastra33@...> wrote:
          >
          > A friend of mine who works for the San Jose Ballet tells me they
          use Evangeline Slipper Dye.  So far I have been able to find very few
          sources on the web, but maybe you will have better luck.  I will
          contact my friend again and see if I can find out where they purchase
          it.
          > Michelle
          > PS She also told me to mix Rit dye with rubbing alcohol until you
          get a thin liquid and then paint it on the shoes using a dauber.
          >
          >
          >
          > --- On Wed, 2/4/09, Curtis <gckidd@...> wrote:
          > From: Curtis <gckidd@...>
          > Subject: [TheCostumersManifesto] Shoe coloring...
          > To: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 12:30 PM
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          > to make a pair deep red for a show in a week and a half. The one
          show
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          > I've worked in the past where we did this, it was done with spray
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          > paint, but I was less that thrilled with the results (the number of
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          > obliterated the satiny finish of the shoes...)
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        • geneiak
          i have used the rit and alcohol in spray bottles on satin shoes and gotten good results- i strained it after mixing- i used to buy evangeline at ratterman
          Message 4 of 25 , Feb 4, 2009
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            i have used the rit and alcohol in spray bottles on satin shoes and
            gotten good results-
            i strained it after mixing-

            i used to buy evangeline at ratterman -southern in cincinnati-
            i am sure they do mail order-
            513-242-0622

            retshopbuyer

            --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, Michelle Davidson
            <adastra33@...> wrote:
            >
            > A friend of mine who works for the San Jose Ballet tells me they
            use Evangeline Slipper Dye.  So far I have been able to find very few
            sources on the web, but maybe you will have better luck.  I will
            contact my friend again and see if I can find out where they purchase
            it.
            > Michelle
            > PS She also told me to mix Rit dye with rubbing alcohol until you
            get a thin liquid and then paint it on the shoes using a dauber.
            >
            >
            >
            > --- On Wed, 2/4/09, Curtis <gckidd@...> wrote:
            > From: Curtis <gckidd@...>
            > Subject: [TheCostumersManifesto] Shoe coloring...
            > To: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 12:30 PM
            >
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            >
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            > Any recommendations on the best technique to dye pointe
            shoes? I need
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            > to make a pair deep red for a show in a week and a half. The one
            show
            >
            > I've worked in the past where we did this, it was done with spray
            >
            > paint, but I was less that thrilled with the results (the number of
            >
            > coats of paint required to build up an even color also built up and
            >
            > obliterated the satiny finish of the shoes...)
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          • Mary
            Regardless of what technique you use, make sure that you don t soak the fabric of the shoe. Most are made from layers of fabric & glue and you can weaken or
            Message 5 of 25 , Feb 5, 2009
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              Regardless of what technique you use, make sure that you don't soak
              the fabric of the shoe. Most are made from layers of fabric & glue
              and you can weaken or break the shoe by getting the glue too wet.

              ~mary
              "Ballet Mom"

              --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, "geneiak"
              <retshopbuyer@...> wrote:
              >
              > i have used the rit and alcohol in spray bottles on satin shoes and
              > gotten good results-
              > i strained it after mixing-
              >
              > --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, Michelle Davidson
              > <adastra33@> wrote:
              > >
              > > A friend of mine who works for the San Jose Ballet tells me they
              > use Evangeline Slipper Dye.  So far I have been able to find very few
              > sources on the web, but maybe you will have better luck.  I will
              > contact my friend again and see if I can find out where they purchase
              > it.
              > > Michelle
              > > PS She also told me to mix Rit dye with rubbing alcohol until you
              > get a thin liquid and then paint it on the shoes using a dauber.
              > > --- On Wed, 2/4/09, Curtis <gckidd@> wrote:
              > > From: Curtis <gckidd@>
              > > Subject: [TheCostumersManifesto] Shoe coloring...
              > > To: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com
              > > Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 12:30 PM
              > >
              > > Any recommendations on the best technique to dye pointe
              > shoes? I need
            • Wendy Starn
              My daughter used Pebeo Setacolor paints to turn a pair of pointe shoes black.  They are waterbase, transparent, and do not affect the hand of fabric if not
              Message 6 of 25 , Feb 5, 2009
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                My daughter used Pebeo Setacolor paints to turn a pair of pointe shoes black.  They are waterbase, transparent, and do not affect the hand of fabric if not too thick. It did not stiffen or affect the fit of the shoes.  Use a small sponge to apply.  I use them all the time to paint quilt fabric, although I like to paint on wet fabric.  I got mine at Michael's, one bottle at a time with cupons.
                 
                I was lucky enough to attend a performance by Dance Theatre of Harlem tonight.  They custom color all their shoes to each dancer's skin tone with makeup, and custom dye the tights also.  When leg and shoe are the same color, you get a really long line.

                Wendy L Starn
                Alexandria, Louisiana
                http://public.fotki.com/wlstarn/
                http://splendiferousfiber.blogspot.com/
                SplendiferousFiber.etsy.com




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • wendylstarn
                One more suggestion: try out your method on an old pair first to see if you like the result. Shouldn t be hard to find a worn out pair of pointe shoes....
                Message 7 of 25 , Feb 6, 2009
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                  One more suggestion: try out your method on an old pair first to see
                  if you like the result. Shouldn't be hard to find a worn out pair of
                  pointe shoes.... :-)


                  --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <hanstar88@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Regardless of what technique you use, make sure that you don't soak
                  > the fabric of the shoe. Most are made from layers of fabric & glue
                  > and you can weaken or break the shoe by getting the glue too wet.
                  >
                  > ~mary
                  > "Ballet Mom"
                  >
                  > --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, "geneiak"
                  > <retshopbuyer@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > i have used the rit and alcohol in spray bottles on satin shoes
                  and
                  > > gotten good results-
                  > > i strained it after mixing-
                  > >
                  > > --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, Michelle Davidson
                  > > <adastra33@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > A friend of mine who works for the San Jose Ballet tells me
                  they
                  > > use Evangeline Slipper Dye.  So far I have been able to find very
                  few
                  > > sources on the web, but maybe you will have better luck.  I will
                  > > contact my friend again and see if I can find out where they
                  purchase
                  > > it.
                  > > > Michelle
                  > > > PS She also told me to mix Rit dye with rubbing alcohol until
                  you
                  > > get a thin liquid and then paint it on the shoes using a dauber.
                  > > > --- On Wed, 2/4/09, Curtis <gckidd@> wrote:
                  > > > From: Curtis <gckidd@>
                  > > > Subject: [TheCostumersManifesto] Shoe coloring...
                  > > > To: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 12:30 PM
                  > > >
                  > > > Any recommendations on the best technique to dye
                  pointe
                  > > shoes? I need
                  >
                • caryneska
                  Claudia Folts, owner of Tutu.com would be of great help on dancer costuming issues, too, and resources for all things dance. One can join Ballet Talk for
                  Message 8 of 25 , Feb 7, 2009
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                    Claudia Folts, owner of Tutu.com would be of great help on dancer
                    costuming issues, too, and resources for all things dance. One can
                    join Ballet Talk for dancers, a wonderful online community, and go
                    under "Costume shop". There is great quantities of experienced tips
                    there, and Claudia often is online there with helpful tips. Which
                    reminds me, I better get going on a Don Q. tutu..
                    Caryneska


                    --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, "wendylstarn"
                    <wendylstarn@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > One more suggestion: try out your method on an old pair first to see
                    > if you like the result. Shouldn't be hard to find a worn out pair of
                    > pointe shoes.... :-)
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <hanstar88@>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Regardless of what technique you use, make sure that you don't soak
                    > > the fabric of the shoe. Most are made from layers of fabric & glue
                    > > and you can weaken or break the shoe by getting the glue too wet.
                    > >
                    > > ~mary
                    > > "Ballet Mom"
                    > >
                    > > --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, "geneiak"
                    > > <retshopbuyer@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > i have used the rit and alcohol in spray bottles on satin shoes
                    > and
                    > > > gotten good results-
                    > > > i strained it after mixing-
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, Michelle Davidson
                    > > > <adastra33@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > A friend of mine who works for the San Jose Ballet tells me
                    > they
                    > > > use Evangeline Slipper Dye.  So far I have been able to find very
                    > few
                    > > > sources on the web, but maybe you will have better luck.  I will
                    > > > contact my friend again and see if I can find out where they
                    > purchase
                    > > > it.
                    > > > > Michelle
                    > > > > PS She also told me to mix Rit dye with rubbing alcohol until
                    > you
                    > > > get a thin liquid and then paint it on the shoes using a dauber.
                    > > > > --- On Wed, 2/4/09, Curtis <gckidd@> wrote:
                    > > > > From: Curtis <gckidd@>
                    > > > > Subject: [TheCostumersManifesto] Shoe coloring...
                    > > > > To: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 12:30 PM
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Any recommendations on the best technique to dye
                    > pointe
                    > > > shoes? I need
                    > >
                    >
                  • Paula McWhirter-Buck
                    hey y all, i m costuming LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS, see... and this director wants the audience to literally get blood on their hands by having someone come up
                    Message 9 of 25 , Feb 17, 2009
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                      hey y'all,

                      i'm costuming LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS, see...
                      and this director wants "the audience to literally get blood on their hands" by having someone come up and feed the dentist's body parts to the plant (and he insists they actually leave the stage with stage blood on them).
                      now, my concern is getting the "blood" on an audience member's clothes.
                      i dont have the budget to clean someone's vintage silk blouse, or good wool suit...or...or...

                      i'm talking as fast as i can to talk him out of this little adventure.

                      he's sent me some recipes for "washable" stage blood, but, i dont intend to wash some random person's clothes after each performance, nor ask them to.

                      how realistic am i in my unwillingness to budge on this?
                      how realistic is he to ask me to?

                      he's sent me all kinds of "documentation" from stage blood manufacturers about how washable their product is. but, i've been in costuming for a pretty long time, and i've sold all the products he's told me about, and used most of them. and i have yet to see one that i'd be comfortable splashing on an unsuspecting audience member. and i'm very wary of trying a concoction of dish detergent and whatever...
                      i'm freaked out, enough about having to get the stuff out of my own costumes every day, between performances....not to mention a rented plant...and how housekeeping reacts to this idea...well....

                      i'd love to go to him with a list of "WHAT ARE YOU....CRAZY???" responses from costumers around the globe...or even the state...

                      can you help me out?

                      brightest of blessings,
                      paula mcwhirter-buck
                      costume designer/shop supervisor
                      mars hill college theatre arts department
                      &
                      southern appalachian repertory theatre
                      mars hill, nc
                      828-689-1385


                      "THE TIME HAS COME", THE WALRUS SAID,"TO TALK OF MANY THINGS.
                      OF SHOES, AND SHIPS AND SEALING WAX, OF CABBAGES AND KINGS.
                      AND WHY THE SEA IS BOILING HOT, AND WHETHER PIGS HAVE WINGS."
                    • CStilwell
                      give them a garbage bag or a raincoat to wear (worked for gallagher) charlie ... From: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com
                      Message 10 of 25 , Feb 17, 2009
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                        give them a garbage bag or a raincoat to wear
                        (worked for gallagher)

                        charlie
                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com
                        [mailto:TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Paula
                        McWhirter-Buck
                        Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 6:25 PM
                        To: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [TheCostumersManifesto] audience getting blood on their hands...



                        hey y'all,

                        i'm costuming LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS, see...
                        and this director wants "the audience to literally get blood on their
                        hands" by having someone come up and feed the dentist's body parts to the
                        plant (and he insists they actually leave the stage with stage blood on
                        them).
                        now, my concern is getting the "blood" on an audience member's clothes.
                        i dont have the budget to clean someone's vintage silk blouse, or good
                        wool suit...or...or...

                        i'm talking as fast as i can to talk him out of this little adventure.

                        he's sent me some recipes for "washable" stage blood, but, i dont intend
                        to wash some random person's clothes after each performance, nor ask them
                        to.

                        how realistic am i in my unwillingness to budge on this?
                        how realistic is he to ask me to?

                        he's sent me all kinds of "documentation" from stage blood manufacturers
                        about how washable their product is. but, i've been in costuming for a
                        pretty long time, and i've sold all the products he's told me about, and
                        used most of them. and i have yet to see one that i'd be comfortable
                        splashing on an unsuspecting audience member. and i'm very wary of trying a
                        concoction of dish detergent and whatever...
                        i'm freaked out, enough about having to get the stuff out of my own
                        costumes every day, between performances....not to mention a rented
                        plant...and how housekeeping reacts to this idea...well....

                        i'd love to go to him with a list of "WHAT ARE YOU....CRAZY???" responses
                        from costumers around the globe...or even the state...

                        can you help me out?

                        brightest of blessings,
                        paula mcwhirter-buck
                        costume designer/shop supervisor
                        mars hill college theatre arts department
                        &
                        southern appalachian repertory theatre
                        mars hill, nc
                        828-689-1385

                        "THE TIME HAS COME", THE WALRUS SAID,"TO TALK OF MANY THINGS.
                        OF SHOES, AND SHIPS AND SEALING WAX, OF CABBAGES AND KINGS.
                        AND WHY THE SEA IS BOILING HOT, AND WHETHER PIGS HAVE WINGS."





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Kate
                        I ll be happy to chime in with the What are you CRAZY?   part of this. The idea of people getting blood stained and them not throwing a fit...since they
                        Message 11 of 25 , Feb 17, 2009
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                          I'll be happy to chime in with the "What are you CRAZY?"  part of this.
                          The idea of people getting "blood" stained and them not throwing a fit...since they won't KNOW if it is going to come out of their clothes.  And thinking that they might have to have it dry cleaned, which they didn't plan on.  AND, knowing people it won't really matter if it isn't a special vintage very expensive designer piece of clothing... I have seen people react badly when they get something unexpected on a Tshirt!

                          I would say you stick to your guns.  The director really need to think through the ramifications, even to the most extreme scenario of having someone walk out really angry because they were traumatized by getting "blood" on them from some dismembered manikin.

                          Kat
                          Massachusetts






















                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Sheryl Barrow
                          I ll second (or third or eightieth) that. I would probably flip out myself. As Kate said, people who go see a show a lot of times dress up - regardless of
                          Message 12 of 25 , Feb 17, 2009
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                            I'll second (or third or eightieth) that. I would probably flip out
                            myself. As Kate said, people who go see a show a lot of times dress up -
                            regardless of whether or not stage blood is "supposed to" wash out, it might
                            not, and/or dry cleaning might set it. I can see people suing over this,
                            not to mention the horrible reviews.

                            And what about little kids? If something on stage is so real that they
                            actually get blood on them - nightmare city. And then the parents will sue
                            for resulting mental trauma.

                            No.. I think you should put your foot down, for both his protection and the
                            studios. And if he insists even after you point out the potential
                            ramifications, then it might be time to walk away. (Or tell the producer
                            and let them put their foot down.) It's a neat idea, but just not
                            practical.

                            The only way I see around all that is to advertise the fact that the
                            audience may get gory, but then you're going to hurt your ticket sales
                            badly. And besides, there will always be the person who ignores the warning
                            and wears a mink coat and sits in the front row.

                            On a related note, how would you even do this? The quantity of blood needed
                            to splatter even 3' away from the source (and be seen from at least the
                            first 10 rows) is quite a bit, isn't it? Wouldn't the cost be prohibitive
                            if you did it more than once or twice ? I'm thinking not so much of the
                            blood itself, because I think it's easy to make (isn't it?) but the cleaning
                            for the costumes and stage. And the stage curtains!

                            Is it a danger to the actors to have blood on the stage? What are your
                            plans to clean the stage because I know the theatre isn't going to like a
                            speckled floor.

                            Sorry... off on a tangent there! Good luck!


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • lanorte1@aol.com
                            The short answer is, your director is nuts. This is a disaster waiting to happen. Someone (or more likely, several someones) will have garments ruined - or
                            Message 13 of 25 , Feb 17, 2009
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                              The short answer is, your director is nuts. This is a disaster waiting to
                              happen. Someone (or more likely, several someones) will have garments ruined -
                              or just won't be happy to be pelted with sticky goo at a performance. If this
                              were being performed for college students/young adults and it were WIDELY
                              publicized (ALL press releases, interviews, large-print lobby signs) that "you,
                              the audience, will have stage blood thrown on you during this performance,"
                              then maybe...

                              Oh hell, who am I kidding? Even then, you'd STILL have some audience members
                              pissed off. This is not a good idea.

                              Donna
                              **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
                              steps!
                              (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1218822736x1201267884/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=fe
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                            • Mandy
                              Me too about the nuts thing... but... Ever thought of that slime that kids use? I know you can get it in red. Might not be exactly the right thing, but would
                              Message 14 of 25 , Feb 17, 2009
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                                Me too about the nuts thing... but... Ever thought of that slime that kids
                                use? I know you can get it in red. Might not be exactly the right thing,
                                but would give the audience member a bit of a stir and would be colour safe,
                                non-toxic and horrible feeling... or If you could get some non-toxic red
                                colouring that is also guaranteed not to stain, then mix it with water and
                                that flour that is wet, but isn't (Can't think what it's called! Corn
                                flour!) you'd get a slimy feeling, but when compressed it becomes hard like.
                                Or finally - outfit them in long rubber gloves like vets use, neck to floor,
                                long sleeved plastic apron, and a splatter guard type of helmet that the
                                doctors wear now, and let them go nuts with fake blood! This stuff is all
                                washable and reusable and you might find that after the initial shows, the
                                reviews will bring in people itching to get nice and gooey. :D

                                Having said that. now after all, aren't we the ones that are supposed to try
                                hard to make the directors ideas come true? If we said no to every hard
                                thing, we wouldn't be where we are today with all the wonderful effects
                                that we have. And believe it or not, you aren't going to please all of the
                                audience for the whole performance. We've had people walk out highly
                                offended by something that they read into the script... You never know.

                                But yes, the director is nuts! LOL

                                you could always try something like this - Walk into rehearsal one night
                                with something sticky and yucky (but colour safe - childs stove top slime
                                without colour) and get into the conversation again. Then when in full
                                flight of the "conversation" about the blood.. smack him/her in the chest
                                with the slimy horrible stuff... Stand back and see what reaction you get.
                                If he/she fires up, you could use that in your argument... If he/she cracks
                                up laughing - well, you aint never gonna win!

                                Mandy
                                My 2 cents

                                http://craftandsuch.blogspot.com/
                                http://www.pcgirl.com.au
                              • Poppy Shell
                                ALOHA: In reply to the bloody request of the director for LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS. Well, I ve costumed this play for a high school production, where there were
                                Message 15 of 25 , Feb 18, 2009
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                                  ALOHA: In reply to the bloody request of the director for LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS. Well, I've costumed this play for a high school production, where there were many children and teens in the audience. If I were a mom bringing my child - any age - I'd be upset with the detail of realism this director wants. This is a campy play, and while it deals with death, and murder really, I think to emphasize the death with blood on the audience is a HUGE mistake. The play is dark enough without that added detail. AND this isn't even talking about the difficulties you will have as the costumer, with your own costumes, the sets, the floor, the actors - possible allergic reactions or fake blood in someone's eyes or mouth, yuck. I agree you should talk to the producers, this director's request is opening everyone up for a real nightmare.....good luck. Poppy on Kauai






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                                • lanorte1@aol.com
                                  Oh yeah...cockroaches. The more blood you spatter and the further you spatter it, the more difficult it will be to get absolutely every speck cleaned up. And
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Feb 18, 2009
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                                    Oh yeah...cockroaches. The more blood you spatter and the further you
                                    spatter it, the more difficult it will be to get absolutely every speck cleaned up.
                                    And little multi-legged critters will find it.

                                    Donna
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                                  • ~lisa.s
                                    A good director doesn t have to resort to gags and gimmicks. But I don t suppose there s a polite way to point that out. ; I dealt with a similar circumstance
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Feb 18, 2009
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                                      A good director doesn't have to resort to gags and gimmicks. But I don't
                                      suppose there's a polite way to point that out. ;>

                                      I dealt with a similar circumstance with a production of "Sweeney Todd".
                                      To the point the director insisted the show change venues to a smaller,
                                      more intimate space so there would be a very good chance audience
                                      members would have blood spatter on them every time Sweeney brandished
                                      the razor, after a kill.

                                      Well, after the first dress-tech, even using the brand of stage blood I
                                      always use, that has *always* washed out easily, there was staining: the
                                      interfacing down the front placket of several shirts grabbed the dye
                                      from the blood, leaving the shirts with a distinctive pink stripe
                                      running down the front. If it had been in a larger space, the pink
                                      probably wouldn't have shown. It was only this--that the blood might
                                      *not* wash out if it did get on the audience, that made the director see
                                      reason. (It was the strangest thing--some of them were old, pulled from
                                      stock, one was a new store bought and the most important one, Judge
                                      Turpin, was newly build. I still have no idea why)

                                      I'm not suggesting you sabotage a shirt or other costume piece, but...

                                      Good luck. May St. Genesius (the patron saint of theater) spare us from
                                      crazy directors.

                                      ~lisa.s

                                      --
                                      ~lisa.s * llsturtsATgreatlakesDOTnet
                                    • Wendy Starn
                                      Given the litiginous society that we live in, I could easily see a nasty lawsuit coming from throwing fake blood onto people.  I suspect the theater would
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Feb 18, 2009
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                                        Given the litiginous society that we live in, I could easily see a nasty lawsuit coming from throwing fake blood onto people.  I suspect the theater would lose.  It's not Halloween, and you are not running a haunted house, where this might be more expected.  I'm not a lawyer, but I keep up with the news, and these days, people will sue over anythihng.

                                        Wendy L Starn
                                        Alexandria, Louisiana
                                        http://public.fotki.com/wlstarn/
                                        http://splendiferousfiber.blogspot.com/
                                        SplendiferousFiber.etsy.com




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                                      • babsdesign3
                                        ... stupid??? I did Zoo Story once and the blood splashed onto the shoe of someone inthe front row and they were NOT happy. To top it off, I have several
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Feb 18, 2009
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                                          ---Oh yea, I too, must ask - is this director crazy or just plain
                                          stupid??? I did Zoo Story once and the blood splashed onto the shoe
                                          of someone inthe front row and they were NOT happy. To top it off, I
                                          have several recipes for washable blood and depending on the fabric,
                                          sometimes they do not wash out completely. Just say no.
                                          Barby Kahl

                                          In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, Paula McWhirter-Buck
                                          <keridwyn_98@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > hey y'all,
                                          >
                                          > i'm costuming LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS, see...
                                          > and this director wants "the audience to literally get blood on
                                          their hands" by having someone come up and feed the dentist's body
                                          parts to the plant (and he insists they actually leave the stage with
                                          stage blood on them).
                                          > now, my concern is getting the "blood" on an audience member's clothes.
                                          > i dont have the budget to clean someone's vintage silk blouse, or
                                          good wool suit...or...or...
                                          >
                                          > i'm talking as fast as i can to talk him out of this little adventure.
                                          >
                                          > he's sent me some recipes for "washable" stage blood, but, i dont
                                          intend to wash some random person's clothes after each performance,
                                          nor ask them to.
                                          >
                                          > how realistic am i in my unwillingness to budge on this?
                                          > how realistic is he to ask me to?
                                          >
                                          > he's sent me all kinds of "documentation" from stage blood
                                          manufacturers about how washable their product is. but, i've been in
                                          costuming for a pretty long time, and i've sold all the products he's
                                          told me about, and used most of them. and i have yet to see one that
                                          i'd be comfortable splashing on an unsuspecting audience member. and
                                          i'm very wary of trying a concoction of dish detergent and whatever...
                                          > i'm freaked out, enough about having to get the stuff out of my own
                                          costumes every day, between performances....not to mention a rented
                                          plant...and how housekeeping reacts to this idea...well....
                                          >
                                          > i'd love to go to him with a list of "WHAT ARE YOU....CRAZY???"
                                          responses from costumers around the globe...or even the state...
                                          >
                                          > can you help me out?
                                          >
                                          > brightest of blessings,
                                          > paula mcwhirter-buck
                                          > costume designer/shop supervisor
                                          > mars hill college theatre arts department
                                          > &
                                          > southern appalachian repertory theatre
                                          > mars hill, nc
                                          > 828-689-1385
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > "THE TIME HAS COME", THE WALRUS SAID,"TO TALK OF MANY THINGS.
                                          > OF SHOES, AND SHIPS AND SEALING WAX, OF CABBAGES AND KINGS.
                                          > AND WHY THE SEA IS BOILING HOT, AND WHETHER PIGS HAVE WINGS."
                                          >
                                        • Catherine Leeson
                                          Could be dangerous, could be interesting. There was a professional stage show done in toronto recently that involved the audience and blood. I think it was
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Feb 18, 2009
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                                            Could be dangerous, could be interesting.

                                            There was a professional stage show done in toronto recently that
                                            involved the audience and blood. I think it was the texas chainsaw
                                            masacre. I didn't go - I remember something about blood and a
                                            chainsaw.

                                            To get to my point - when people were sold their seats they could
                                            book the splatter or non-spatter zones. If you were in the spaltter
                                            zone when the chainsaw started you would get doused - a friend's
                                            brother went and sat in that area. Apprently he got some weird
                                            looks on the subway afterwards as his white tshirt was covered.

                                            Personally, I like you am very frightened of the idea.

                                            If the director can't be talked out of his insane idea the only
                                            suggestion I can offer is to modify it. If possible have a sign up
                                            place where people can volunteer to do this .... [then they can be
                                            warned and they know what is going on]

                                            I can still see disaster as there will be stage blood everywhere -
                                            how easily can the carpet and seats in the theatre be cleaned. Has
                                            this insane idea been discussed with the management - one thing
                                            stage blood on a stage that can be scrubbed but in the seats....
                                            Theatre management might be a strong ally in killing the idea.

                                            Cathy Leeson
                                          • Paula McWhirter-Buck
                                            you folks are the best. the responses have been wonderfully supportive. i have a meeting with him today to discuss it further. i told him of this discussion,
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Feb 19, 2009
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                                              you folks are the best.

                                              the responses have been wonderfully supportive.
                                              i have a meeting with him today to discuss it further.
                                              i told him of this discussion, and have offered to let him read these emails. though, i've also warned him that we are costumers...and some not as "appreciative" of the plight of the director as others, and sometimes "the language reflects those feelings".

                                              i have also spoken to his (and my) superiors, the set designer, housekeeping, etc. everyone agrees with me.
                                              i'm thinking the outcome is to be a "planted" audience member who will come up and reach into a bucket of "body parts" and "blood". feed the plant, and be escorted off to the side to clean up before returning to their seat.
                                              though i still have concerns for my costumes (and the rented plant...but that's not MY problem)...i'm more comfortable with the situation.

                                              and while we're on the subject...does anyone have any suggestions on how to deal with getting stage blood out of white lab coats, that can be executed by theatre students that cant seem to pick their costumes up off the floor?
                                              maybe a giant bottle of OXY CLEAN back stage?

                                              again, thank you all for your wonderful emails.
                                              i cant tell you what a help you've all been.

                                              blessings,
                                              paula

                                              "THE TIME HAS COME", THE WALRUS SAID,"TO TALK OF MANY THINGS.
                                              OF SHOES, AND SHIPS AND SEALING WAX, OF CABBAGES AND KINGS.
                                              AND WHY THE SEA IS BOILING HOT, AND WHETHER PIGS HAVE WINGS."


                                              --- On Wed, 2/18/09, Catherine Leeson <dragonleeson@...> wrote:

                                              > From: Catherine Leeson <dragonleeson@...>
                                              > Subject: [TheCostumersManifesto] Re: audience getting blood on their hands...
                                              > To: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 2:08 PM
                                              > Could be dangerous, could be interesting.
                                              >
                                              > There was a professional stage show done in toronto
                                              > recently that
                                              > involved the audience and blood. I think it was the texas
                                              > chainsaw
                                              > masacre. I didn't go - I remember something about
                                              > blood and a
                                              > chainsaw.
                                              >
                                              > To get to my point - when people were sold their seats they
                                              > could
                                              > book the splatter or non-spatter zones. If you were in the
                                              > spaltter
                                              > zone when the chainsaw started you would get doused - a
                                              > friend's
                                              > brother went and sat in that area. Apprently he got some
                                              > weird
                                              > looks on the subway afterwards as his white tshirt was
                                              > covered.
                                              >
                                              > Personally, I like you am very frightened of the idea.
                                              >
                                              > If the director can't be talked out of his insane idea
                                              > the only
                                              > suggestion I can offer is to modify it. If possible have a
                                              > sign up
                                              > place where people can volunteer to do this .... [then they
                                              > can be
                                              > warned and they know what is going on]
                                              >
                                              > I can still see disaster as there will be stage blood
                                              > everywhere -
                                              > how easily can the carpet and seats in the theatre be
                                              > cleaned. Has
                                              > this insane idea been discussed with the management - one
                                              > thing
                                              > stage blood on a stage that can be scrubbed but in the
                                              > seats....
                                              > Theatre management might be a strong ally in killing the
                                              > idea.
                                              >
                                              > Cathy Leeson
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ------------------------------------
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              > (Yahoo! ID required)
                                              >
                                              > mailto:TheCostumersManifesto-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                                              >
                                            • bonnie carter
                                              Is the theatre management aware of what the director is wanting to do and to the extent that he s described to you?  If this were our theatre, I can t imagine
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Feb 19, 2009
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                                                Is the theatre management aware of what the director is wanting to do and to the extent that he's described to you?  If this were our theatre, I can't imagine our management would allow this idea to foster past the conceptual phase.  I'd think they'd need some sort of release for the audience to sign beforehand and it does sound like it could be costly. 


                                                Bonnie Dalager
                                                www.dramaticallycorrect.com

                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • history_lady25
                                                The only way I can see you avoiding lawsuits is to arrange with an audience member ahead of time, for them to be the blood person, or to hide an actor in the
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Feb 19, 2009
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                                                  The only way I can see you avoiding lawsuits is to arrange with an
                                                  audience member ahead of time, for them to be the "blood person," or
                                                  to hide an actor in the audience, and pick them every night to be
                                                  the "blood person" to make it look -- to the actual audience -- that
                                                  you're dragging an innocent bystander in.

                                                  When I was in high school one of my classes made us do these group
                                                  projects that involved the possibility of splashing water on someone
                                                  in the class; one student got a splash of *water* on her shoes and
                                                  freaked out. I did "King Lear" a few years back and had to do the
                                                  bloody costume laundry, and was able to get the blood out only with
                                                  long soaking in cold water, and I'm still not sure I got it all out
                                                  every night. To be responsible for getting the stuff out of theater
                                                  upholstery and carpet, along with the clothes of an irate (very
                                                  likely) audience member, is not something that I would agree to do!

                                                  If there will be considerable amounts of blood splashed on the first
                                                  few rows of seating, I think you should do what someone else
                                                  suggested, and sell "blood zone" seats and "dry zone" seats, and even
                                                  get plastic seat covers for the seats in the first few rows. Tell
                                                  the audience to bring umbrellas and clear plastic bags, etc. like you
                                                  see at Gallagher shows. You can't just spring that kind of thing on
                                                  people and expect them to understand and appreciate the effect; I
                                                  think it's approaching too closely to the line between "realistic
                                                  audience participation" and "bullying and terrorizing" people.

                                                  Elizabeth Urbach

                                                  --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, Paula McWhirter-Buck
                                                  <keridwyn_98@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > hey y'all,
                                                  >
                                                  > i'm costuming LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS, see...
                                                  > and this director wants "the audience to literally get blood on
                                                  their hands" by having someone come up and feed the dentist's body
                                                  parts to the plant (and he insists they actually leave the stage
                                                  with stage blood on them).
                                                  > now, my concern is getting the "blood" on an audience member's
                                                  clothes.
                                                  > i dont have the budget to clean someone's vintage silk blouse, or
                                                  good wool suit...or...or...
                                                  >
                                                  > i'm talking as fast as i can to talk him out of this little
                                                  adventure.
                                                  >
                                                  > he's sent me some recipes for "washable" stage blood, but, i dont
                                                  intend to wash some random person's clothes after each performance,
                                                  nor ask them to.
                                                  >
                                                  > how realistic am i in my unwillingness to budge on this?
                                                  > how realistic is he to ask me to?
                                                  >
                                                  > he's sent me all kinds of "documentation" from stage blood
                                                  manufacturers about how washable their product is. but, i've been in
                                                  costuming for a pretty long time, and i've sold all the products he's
                                                  told me about, and used most of them. and i have yet to see one that
                                                  i'd be comfortable splashing on an unsuspecting audience member. and
                                                  i'm very wary of trying a concoction of dish detergent and whatever...
                                                  > i'm freaked out, enough about having to get the stuff out of my own
                                                  costumes every day, between performances....not to mention a rented
                                                  plant...and how housekeeping reacts to this idea...well....
                                                  >
                                                  > i'd love to go to him with a list of "WHAT ARE YOU....CRAZY???"
                                                  responses from costumers around the globe...or even the state...
                                                  >
                                                  > can you help me out?
                                                  >
                                                  > brightest of blessings,
                                                  > paula mcwhirter-buck
                                                  > costume designer/shop supervisor
                                                  > mars hill college theatre arts department
                                                  > &
                                                  > southern appalachian repertory theatre
                                                  > mars hill, nc
                                                  > 828-689-1385
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > "THE TIME HAS COME", THE WALRUS SAID,"TO TALK OF MANY THINGS.
                                                  > OF SHOES, AND SHIPS AND SEALING WAX, OF CABBAGES AND KINGS.
                                                  > AND WHY THE SEA IS BOILING HOT, AND WHETHER PIGS HAVE WINGS."
                                                  >
                                                • bonnie carter
                                                  I m glad you re having a meeting and hope that you re all able to come to a conclusion that you re happy with.  I was taken aback to read that the plant is
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Feb 20, 2009
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                                                    I'm glad you're having a meeting and hope that you're all able to come to a conclusion that you're happy with.  I was taken aback to read that the plant is rented--I rent out one of these prop packages and I would be horrified if someone got stage blood on our plant that stained the surfaces.  That's probably the most complicated rental I have to work with, and expensive to build to say the least. 


                                                    Bonnie Dalager
                                                    www.dramaticallycorrect.com

                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  • Curtis
                                                    As someone who s not only looking at this from the costuming side of the show, but also the directing side, I ve got to ask myself if this director lacks
                                                    Message 25 of 25 , Feb 21, 2009
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                                                      As someone who's not only looking at this from the costuming side of
                                                      the show, but also the directing side, I've got to ask myself if this
                                                      director lacks confidence in his concept of the show, to feel the need
                                                      to resort to what is essentially a cheap ploy at audience
                                                      participation in order to involve them in the show. That's my initial
                                                      reaction when I read about this...then I go into other issues like
                                                      blood on the audience, blood on the plant, blood on the floor (that
                                                      your actors are going to be walking back and forth across for the rest
                                                      of the show, which means blood tracked EVERYWHERE on stage, blood that
                                                      will likely be crusted over by the end of the show if the stage crew
                                                      is going to stick around to mop then, or definitely caked over by the
                                                      next day when the crew would normally mop...not to mention potential
                                                      issues with footing and making the stage surface slick...)

                                                      Directors have to understand that theater is different from movies,
                                                      and there is NO WAY to establish the same degree of realism in the
                                                      effects. They also need to understand that, unless you have the kind
                                                      of budget that shows like Evil Dead have on Broadway, you can't afford
                                                      to splatter the entire theater with stuff and pay a crew to clean it
                                                      up every night. Any boost the theater would get in attendance for the
                                                      show would be lost in paying the cleaning crew (and that before we get
                                                      into the potential lawsuits from irate audience members, the potential
                                                      increased insurance payments due to injured actors, and the
                                                      more-than-likely extra cleaning fees charged by the company renting
                                                      the plant.) People don't go to see Little Shop expecting a
                                                      splatter-fest...it's a dark comedy. Unless you can find a funny way
                                                      to incorporate something like that, it doesn't fit the show. Besides,
                                                      it also defeats the scene...the dentist is supposed to be SECRETLY fed
                                                      to the plant, Seymour is trying to cover up the fact that he killed
                                                      the dentist (well, was going to kill him, at least--but he dismembered
                                                      him) and is also trying to keep the secret of the plant's growth--so,
                                                      logically, the LAST thing he would want is somebody (even an anonymous
                                                      stranger from the audience) helping him feed the dentist to the plant.
                                                      Nothing like throwing the premise of the show out the window for a
                                                      cheap ten-second gimmick...
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