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RE: [TheCostumersManifesto] early 18th century man's coat.

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  • Judith Cataldo
    From: http://www.18cnewenglandlife.org/18cnel/frockcoat.htm written by Henry Cooke The Frock Coat was a less formal coat suited for riding, walking, or
    Message 1 of 9 , Jan 25, 2009
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      From: http://www.18cnewenglandlife.org/18cnel/frockcoat.htm written by Henry
      Cooke
      The Frock Coat was a less formal coat suited for riding, walking, or
      informal wear at home. For outdoor or sporting use it was often worn with a
      double-breasted waistcoat. The Frock Coat generally had a front lap over
      with functional buttonholes from the neck to the waist. Pockets were
      functional, and pocket flaps could be made with or with buttons and
      buttonholes. The cuffs were frequently non-functional, and could be without
      buttonholes and buttons. The neck was finished with a collar that could be
      either peaked or round at the center back. Because of its informal nature,
      the frock coat was less constructed, with fewer layers of canvas and
      stiffening in the front. Although it was more loosely fitted than the dress
      coat, it was still fitted close to the body, especially in the arms and
      chest, with a looser fit in the shoulders and back to permit freedom of
      movement (within the limits of social decency). The Frock Coat could be made
      of fine linen, but was generally made of good wool broadcloth or camlet.

      Henry is running a workshop on the making of such a coat this winter
      http://www.thehiveonline.org/2009workshops.htm#frockcoat I'm not sure when
      the first class will actually be as the January class was cancelled due to
      weather.

      I think the JP Ryan frockcoat and/or sleeved waistcoat would work. I used
      the pattern supplied in the class. I don't know if Henry sells them
      separately.

      Judy

      judycat@...
      http://home.earthlink.net/~judycat/id2.html

      -----Original Message-----
      From: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith
      Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 9:56 PM
      To: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [TheCostumersManifesto] early 18th century man's coat.

      I am looking for a pattern for an early 18th century man's work coat,
      much like the later frock coat, but without cuffs, and it appears to
      button all down the front. I have no idea what this coat is called.

      Can anyone advise please. Regards, Keith.
    • kinyaplay
      ... Hello, I am a professional cutter/tailor of over 30 years, and have a website where patterns are available for purchase. Feel free to have a look:
      Message 2 of 9 , Jan 25, 2009
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        --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, "Keith"
        <historicaltrekker@...> wrote:
        >
        > I am looking for a pattern for an early 18th century man's work coat,
        > much like the later frock coat, but without cuffs, and it appears to
        > button all down the front. I have no idea what this coat is called.
        >
        > Can anyone advise please. Regards, Keith.

        Hello,

        I am a professional cutter/tailor of over 30 years, and have a website
        where patterns are available for purchase. Feel free to have a look:

        http://zedemel.tripod.com/

        PS....is the coat you need the pattern for a coat that someone has
        designed, or from a reference?

        Kind regards,
        Zed
      • Keith Burgess
        Thanks Judy, unfortunately this does not sound like the coat I am looking ... As to the workshop, I am in New England Australia, so I doubt I could attend.
        Message 3 of 9 , Jan 25, 2009
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          Thanks Judy, unfortunately this does not sound like the coat I am looking
          > for, I will add a picture if I can which will serve better than any
          > description I can give.
          >

          As to the workshop, I am in New England Australia, so I doubt I could
          attend.
          Regards, Keith.


          >
          >



          --
          "I went to woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the
          essential facts of life and see if I could not learn what it had to teach,
          and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived." Henry David
          Thoreau.


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Renee Schmutz-Sowards
          Hello,  I have been researching information and patterns for the 12Th/13Th century women s gown called the Bliaut (or bliuad, depending on who your
          Message 4 of 9 , Jan 26, 2009
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            Hello,
             I have been researching information and patterns for the 12Th/13Th century women's gown called the "Bliaut" (or bliuad, depending on who your reading.)

            I have come across a  few references and images of a garment sometimes worn with the bliuat called a "Corsage". It seems to be a close fitting, sleeveless vest, or bodice, that laces up the back, worn over the bliaut allowing the sleeves and skirt of the bliaut to show.

            I really like the concept, and would kind of like to make one for an upcoming SCA event. However I can't seem to find any better information about these "corsages".

            What I'm most interested in is how period correct are they? Were they an actual period garment, or is this yet another case of  a miss-understood  Victorian idea of medieval clothing.

            Any help or direction to resources about corsages would be greatly appreciated.

            Thanks in advance,
             Renee

            Looking for info on bliauts and especially corsages






















            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Keith Burgess
            Thanks Zed, it is a sketch of an original. Regards, Keith. ... -- I went to woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of
            Message 5 of 9 , Jan 26, 2009
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              Thanks Zed, it is a sketch of an original. Regards, Keith.
              >
              >



              --
              "I went to woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the
              essential facts of life and see if I could not learn what it had to teach,
              and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived." Henry David
              Thoreau.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Trim Fairy
              There is much heated debate about the bliaut. There are no extant examples to look at, so all construction details are speculations based on period texts and
              Message 6 of 9 , Jan 26, 2009
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                There is much heated debate about the bliaut. There are no extant examples to look at, so all construction details are speculations based on period texts and what the finished product looks like on statues and in art.

                The corsage and oriental surcotes that are shown frequently in more modern depictions are likely to be misinterpretations of what was actually worn.

                I don't know if you've found these articles in your current searching, but they have a wealth of information AND a LOT of references for where to continue your search.

                http://www.chateau-michel.org/belle_bliaut.htm
                http://www.chateau-michel.org/bliaut_class.htm
                http://www.chateau-michel.org/bliaut_layout.htm
                http://camelot-treasures.com/aenor/



                --- On Mon, 1/26/09, Renee Schmutz-Sowards <janejr_2000@...> wrote:
                From: Renee Schmutz-Sowards <janejr_2000@...>
                Subject: [TheCostumersManifesto] Looking for info on bliauts/corsages
                To: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Monday, January 26, 2009, 8:05 AM











                Hello,

                 I have been researching information and patterns for the 12Th/13Th century women's gown called the "Bliaut" (or bliuad, depending on who your reading.)



                I have come across a  few references and images of a garment sometimes worn with the bliuat called a "Corsage". It seems to be a close fitting, sleeveless vest, or bodice, that laces up the back, worn over the bliaut allowing the sleeves and skirt of the bliaut to show.



                I really like the concept, and would kind of like to make one for an upcoming SCA event. However I can't seem to find any better information about these "corsages".



                What I'm most interested in is how period correct are they? Were they an actual period garment, or is this yet another case of  a miss-understood  Victorian idea of medieval clothing.



                Any help or direction to resources about corsages would be greatly appreciated.



                Thanks in advance,

                 Renee



                Looking for info on bliauts and especially corsages























                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





























                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Suzan Kathleen
                There is a website called Reconstructing History that has a lot of Kass McGowan (I think is her name). She is an historical costumer/pattern maker with many
                Message 7 of 9 , Jan 27, 2009
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                  There is a website called Reconstructing History that has a lot of
                  Kass McGowan (I think is her name). She is an historical
                  costumer/pattern maker with many 17-18th century patterns. I have the
                  Frock Coat pattern, I think if you leave the cuffs off and narrow the
                  wrist end of the sleeve you'll get the effect you want. Kass is also
                  very helpful with answering emails about her patterns and also
                  costuming questions like yours. Good luck!
                • Keith Burgess
                  Suzan, many thanks, much appreciated. Keith. ... -- I went to woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life and see
                  Message 8 of 9 , Feb 1 10:42 AM
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                    Suzan, many thanks, much appreciated. Keith.
                    >
                    >



                    --
                    "I went to woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the
                    essential facts of life and see if I could not learn what it had to teach,
                    and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived." Henry David
                    Thoreau.


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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