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early 18th century man's coat.

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  • Keith
    I am looking for a pattern for an early 18th century man s work coat, much like the later frock coat, but without cuffs, and it appears to button all down the
    Message 1 of 9 , Jan 24, 2009
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      I am looking for a pattern for an early 18th century man's work coat,
      much like the later frock coat, but without cuffs, and it appears to
      button all down the front. I have no idea what this coat is called.

      Can anyone advise please. Regards, Keith.
    • Judith Cataldo
      From: http://www.18cnewenglandlife.org/18cnel/frockcoat.htm written by Henry Cooke The Frock Coat was a less formal coat suited for riding, walking, or
      Message 2 of 9 , Jan 25, 2009
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        From: http://www.18cnewenglandlife.org/18cnel/frockcoat.htm written by Henry
        Cooke
        The Frock Coat was a less formal coat suited for riding, walking, or
        informal wear at home. For outdoor or sporting use it was often worn with a
        double-breasted waistcoat. The Frock Coat generally had a front lap over
        with functional buttonholes from the neck to the waist. Pockets were
        functional, and pocket flaps could be made with or with buttons and
        buttonholes. The cuffs were frequently non-functional, and could be without
        buttonholes and buttons. The neck was finished with a collar that could be
        either peaked or round at the center back. Because of its informal nature,
        the frock coat was less constructed, with fewer layers of canvas and
        stiffening in the front. Although it was more loosely fitted than the dress
        coat, it was still fitted close to the body, especially in the arms and
        chest, with a looser fit in the shoulders and back to permit freedom of
        movement (within the limits of social decency). The Frock Coat could be made
        of fine linen, but was generally made of good wool broadcloth or camlet.

        Henry is running a workshop on the making of such a coat this winter
        http://www.thehiveonline.org/2009workshops.htm#frockcoat I'm not sure when
        the first class will actually be as the January class was cancelled due to
        weather.

        I think the JP Ryan frockcoat and/or sleeved waistcoat would work. I used
        the pattern supplied in the class. I don't know if Henry sells them
        separately.

        Judy

        judycat@...
        http://home.earthlink.net/~judycat/id2.html

        -----Original Message-----
        From: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith
        Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 9:56 PM
        To: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [TheCostumersManifesto] early 18th century man's coat.

        I am looking for a pattern for an early 18th century man's work coat,
        much like the later frock coat, but without cuffs, and it appears to
        button all down the front. I have no idea what this coat is called.

        Can anyone advise please. Regards, Keith.
      • kinyaplay
        ... Hello, I am a professional cutter/tailor of over 30 years, and have a website where patterns are available for purchase. Feel free to have a look:
        Message 3 of 9 , Jan 25, 2009
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          --- In TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, "Keith"
          <historicaltrekker@...> wrote:
          >
          > I am looking for a pattern for an early 18th century man's work coat,
          > much like the later frock coat, but without cuffs, and it appears to
          > button all down the front. I have no idea what this coat is called.
          >
          > Can anyone advise please. Regards, Keith.

          Hello,

          I am a professional cutter/tailor of over 30 years, and have a website
          where patterns are available for purchase. Feel free to have a look:

          http://zedemel.tripod.com/

          PS....is the coat you need the pattern for a coat that someone has
          designed, or from a reference?

          Kind regards,
          Zed
        • Keith Burgess
          Thanks Judy, unfortunately this does not sound like the coat I am looking ... As to the workshop, I am in New England Australia, so I doubt I could attend.
          Message 4 of 9 , Jan 25, 2009
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            Thanks Judy, unfortunately this does not sound like the coat I am looking
            > for, I will add a picture if I can which will serve better than any
            > description I can give.
            >

            As to the workshop, I am in New England Australia, so I doubt I could
            attend.
            Regards, Keith.


            >
            >



            --
            "I went to woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the
            essential facts of life and see if I could not learn what it had to teach,
            and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived." Henry David
            Thoreau.


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Renee Schmutz-Sowards
            Hello,  I have been researching information and patterns for the 12Th/13Th century women s gown called the Bliaut (or bliuad, depending on who your
            Message 5 of 9 , Jan 26, 2009
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              Hello,
               I have been researching information and patterns for the 12Th/13Th century women's gown called the "Bliaut" (or bliuad, depending on who your reading.)

              I have come across a  few references and images of a garment sometimes worn with the bliuat called a "Corsage". It seems to be a close fitting, sleeveless vest, or bodice, that laces up the back, worn over the bliaut allowing the sleeves and skirt of the bliaut to show.

              I really like the concept, and would kind of like to make one for an upcoming SCA event. However I can't seem to find any better information about these "corsages".

              What I'm most interested in is how period correct are they? Were they an actual period garment, or is this yet another case of  a miss-understood  Victorian idea of medieval clothing.

              Any help or direction to resources about corsages would be greatly appreciated.

              Thanks in advance,
               Renee

              Looking for info on bliauts and especially corsages






















              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Keith Burgess
              Thanks Zed, it is a sketch of an original. Regards, Keith. ... -- I went to woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of
              Message 6 of 9 , Jan 26, 2009
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                Thanks Zed, it is a sketch of an original. Regards, Keith.
                >
                >



                --
                "I went to woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the
                essential facts of life and see if I could not learn what it had to teach,
                and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived." Henry David
                Thoreau.


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Trim Fairy
                There is much heated debate about the bliaut. There are no extant examples to look at, so all construction details are speculations based on period texts and
                Message 7 of 9 , Jan 26, 2009
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                  There is much heated debate about the bliaut. There are no extant examples to look at, so all construction details are speculations based on period texts and what the finished product looks like on statues and in art.

                  The corsage and oriental surcotes that are shown frequently in more modern depictions are likely to be misinterpretations of what was actually worn.

                  I don't know if you've found these articles in your current searching, but they have a wealth of information AND a LOT of references for where to continue your search.

                  http://www.chateau-michel.org/belle_bliaut.htm
                  http://www.chateau-michel.org/bliaut_class.htm
                  http://www.chateau-michel.org/bliaut_layout.htm
                  http://camelot-treasures.com/aenor/



                  --- On Mon, 1/26/09, Renee Schmutz-Sowards <janejr_2000@...> wrote:
                  From: Renee Schmutz-Sowards <janejr_2000@...>
                  Subject: [TheCostumersManifesto] Looking for info on bliauts/corsages
                  To: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Monday, January 26, 2009, 8:05 AM











                  Hello,

                   I have been researching information and patterns for the 12Th/13Th century women's gown called the "Bliaut" (or bliuad, depending on who your reading.)



                  I have come across a  few references and images of a garment sometimes worn with the bliuat called a "Corsage". It seems to be a close fitting, sleeveless vest, or bodice, that laces up the back, worn over the bliaut allowing the sleeves and skirt of the bliaut to show.



                  I really like the concept, and would kind of like to make one for an upcoming SCA event. However I can't seem to find any better information about these "corsages".



                  What I'm most interested in is how period correct are they? Were they an actual period garment, or is this yet another case of  a miss-understood  Victorian idea of medieval clothing.



                  Any help or direction to resources about corsages would be greatly appreciated.



                  Thanks in advance,

                   Renee



                  Looking for info on bliauts and especially corsages























                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





























                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Suzan Kathleen
                  There is a website called Reconstructing History that has a lot of Kass McGowan (I think is her name). She is an historical costumer/pattern maker with many
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jan 27, 2009
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                    There is a website called Reconstructing History that has a lot of
                    Kass McGowan (I think is her name). She is an historical
                    costumer/pattern maker with many 17-18th century patterns. I have the
                    Frock Coat pattern, I think if you leave the cuffs off and narrow the
                    wrist end of the sleeve you'll get the effect you want. Kass is also
                    very helpful with answering emails about her patterns and also
                    costuming questions like yours. Good luck!
                  • Keith Burgess
                    Suzan, many thanks, much appreciated. Keith. ... -- I went to woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life and see
                    Message 9 of 9 , Feb 1, 2009
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                      Suzan, many thanks, much appreciated. Keith.
                      >
                      >



                      --
                      "I went to woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the
                      essential facts of life and see if I could not learn what it had to teach,
                      and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived." Henry David
                      Thoreau.


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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