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Re: [sbicitizen] Re: The Political and Corporate Democracy

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  • Nirmal S. Nilvi
    Devinder Singh This
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 1, 2011
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      <Money is essentially a creation of Mind.
      Money is a vital force, mentally organized, spiritually sanctioned acting in the material plane> Devinder Singh

      This is a profound statement, but only in narrow emotional realm. In our approach to Holistic thoughts, may I know which idea is real and not a creation of human mind. Is God a reality or another mind's creation with a Holy label.
      Just like you, we all encounter manipulative ways money is used, but at least money serves as a vital conduit to our survival, brain nurturing and keeping us alive to have this exchange.
      Devinder Ji, with due respect and as humans, can we get closer to truth. Money is an essential and perhaps the most clever/brilliant creation of human mind to support nearly 7 billion of us on the planet. This planet cannot support that many of us in any other known ways. It is not the money that is a problem, It our scheming and manipulative mind and its ways that gives it a bad name. In my view, whatever human mind creates for its benefit, a few smart Alex find screwy ways to misuse it. And organized religious minds have turned out to be among the worst. Let us not bad mouth many gifted and useful creations of human mind, let us work on ever shifting, ignoble and scheming human mind condition that remains our unmet challenge. How about working on that material/holistic plane you are alluding to in your missive. With happy and holistic wishes. Nirmal S. Nilvi, Texas.

      Moderator: "may I know which idea is real and not a creation of human mind"...

      Real Ideas are the Truths the Conscious Being wills to manifest in creation; what the Divine conceives it wants to accomplish. Real Ideas are thus the ultimate blueprint of creation.
      The Idea is not a reflection of the external fact which it so much exceeds; rather the fact is only a partial reflection of the Idea which has created it.
      The human intellect, in proportion as it limits itself by the phenomena of self-releasing Force, fails to catch the creative Idea until after we have seen the external fact it has created; but this order of our sense-enslaved consciousness is not the real order of the universe. God pre-exists before the world can come into being, but to our experience in which the senses act first and only then the finer workings of consciousness, the world seems to come first and God to emerge out of it, so much so that it costs us an effort to rise out of the mechanical, pluralistic and pantheistic conceptions of Him to a truer and higher idea of the Divine Reality. That which to us is the ultimate is in truth the primary reality. So, too, the Idea which seems to us to rise out of the fact, really precedes it and out of it the fact has arisen. Our vulgar contrast of the ideal and the real is therefore a sensuous error, for that which we call real is only a phenomenon of force working out something that stands behind the phenomenon and that is pre-existent and greater than it. The Real, the Idea, the phenomenon, this is the true order of the creative Divinity.

      "working on that material/holistic plane you are alluding to"...

      Money has exhibited this capacity to evolve with the times. Sharing the characteristics of this physical stage of development, early money was itself a physical commodity, grain, gold or silver. Only gradually did representative forms of money appear, but these too were full-bodied commodity money, convertible at any time into the commodity that they represented. During the vital stage, more symbolic forms of money such as certificates of deposit, bank notes, checks, letters of credit, bonds and other forms of negotiable securities came into prominence. The complete separation of money from its physical roots came at a much later stage of social development with the appearance of fiat money that does not have a commodity value and cannot be redeemed for a commodity.
      Money is itself an organization. Money is a commodity such as gold or an officially issued coin or paper note that is legally established as an exchangeable equivalent of other commodities and is used as a measure of their comparative values on the market. It is an abstract unit of account in terms of which the value of goods, services and obligations can be measured. The systems of exchange, valuation, issuance and conversion of one form of money into another constitute elements of that organization. The value of money depends directly on the level of this organization. The more developed it becomes, the greater the productive power of money.
      It could be the revolution that America needs to propel her out of her materiality and the rebellious part of individuality.
      The essential value of money is it is an ORGANISATION. It organises the various powers of the society with itself as the centre.
      Higher levels of organization enables the energy to gather into a power for new and higher levels of manifestation. This mimics the organizing power of the Absolute that enabled the material universe.
      The original functions of money were revolutionary in character and evolutionary in purpose.
      In modern times, the role of money has been expanded enormously by the development of complex mental infrastructures consisting of an intricate web of technology, organization and information. Systems for international banking, telecommunications, and computerized financial transactions serve as essential infrastructure for the rapid movement of money around the world.
      Economics, considered on its own as economics for economics' sake, will lead one astray, away from the truth. The centre of economics [now] is Money for the monetarists. It is Man [however] who created money. Money is there to serve man. Man should be the centre of economics, not money.

      On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 1:38 AM, devindersingh <devgulati@...>wrote:

      > > The monetary system with interest at its base and debt as its collateral
      > theme strikes at the base of democracy. Since we have this system, there is
      > no democracy in the world.
      > Money is essentially a creation of Mind.
      > Money is a vital force, mentally organized, spiritually sanctioned acting
      > in the material plane.
      > If we can widen ourselves and see money related to us as related to the
      > wider social collective, we are part of, money will flood all the
      > participants.
      > The more we perceive the social power of money and align ourselves with
      > that wider social movement in a given moment, the more we become
      > instruments for its arrival, both for ourselves and the collectives we are
      > part of.
      > Every human organism will have something which others don't have,
      > and lack something which others possess. This creates the need for
      > interchange. This constant and repeated interchange driven by this law of
      > interdependence creates a circulating force in the vital life of humanity.
      > A fluid force of circulating interchange is the essential nature of the
      > money-force. Thus we can see that money is a universal force proceeding
      > from a universal law of life.
      > No one seeks money, except a few foolish misers, for its own sake. We seek
      > money because it fulfills some human need or desire. The nature of this
      > need or desire changes as we progress in the path of human evolution.
      > Thus, Money or the financial force has three dimensions. First is the
      > material dimension, which is the currency note or dollar; second is the
      > vital dimension, which is the circulating force, created by the interchange
      > of goods and services; third is the psychological dimension made of desire
      > for fulfillment. In a quantitative sense, the
      > velocity of circulation of the vital force behind money is an important
      > factor in the prosperity of a community.
      > The more it circulates, and faster, the more it grows. But for a balanced
      > prosperity it must be a productive circulation which adds tangible wealth
      > to the community or fulfill legitimate human needs and not a speculative
      > circulation which fills the pockets of a few financial manipulators. When
      > the needs are predominantly physical, as in most of the tribal communities
      > the economy is simple and primitive. If the desires are mainly material or
      > sensuous enjoyment and the driving motives are the greed for wealth, power,
      > enjoyment or self-interest of individual and collective ego, the quality of
      > the economic life still remains gross, though less primitive and simple. If
      > the technological and pragmatic mind of the community is well-developed,
      > the economy may be more efficient and productive, but if the desires and
      > motives of people are material, sensuous and exclusively centered around
      > the competitive self-interest and greed of the individual and collective
      > ego of the vital being in man, then it will not lead to any qualitative
      > improvement in the economic life; it will also be subjected to all the
      > turmoil, turbulence and instability of this part of our human nature, full
      > of scams, meltdown, depressions, swings in "sentiments" leading to
      > irrational booms and busts in the stock-market.
      > And truly Money has no value unless it circulates. For each and every one,
      > money is valuable only when one has spent it.... But the most generous man
      > in the world could give nothing if he had nothing to begin with.... One
      > must have the power to accumulate in order to have the power of spreading.
      > If you have only one of the two, that causes an imbalance. One must have
      > both in a balanced, rhythmic movement-the equilibrium we just spoke about.
      > http://fdi.sasociety.in/cms/pdf/fdi_issue10.pdf
      > What is the motivation fueling this circulation?
      > http://www.khanacademy.org/video/velocity-of-money-rather-than-quantity-driving-prices?playlist=Finance
      > It is the motivation that needs to be addressed to produce better money.
      > --- In sbicitizen@yahoogroups.com, "devindersingh" <devgulati@...> wrote:
      > > The monetary system with interest at its base and debt as its collateral
      > > theme strikes at the base of democracy. Since we have this system, there
      > > is no democracy in the world.
      > > Inflation is collateral damage for growth, say our economists. Need it
      > > be so? But the truth is that the United States has only had a major,
      > > ongoing problem with inflation since the Federal Reserve was created
      > > <
      > http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/10-things-that-would-be-dif\
      > <http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/10-things-that-would-be-dif>>
      > ferent-if-the-federal-reserve-had-never-been-created> back in 1913. If
      > > the Federal Reserve did not exist, it is theoretically conceivable that
      > > we could have an economy with little to no inflation. Of course that
      > > would greatly depend on the discipline of our government officials, but
      > > the sad truth is that our current system is always going to produce
      > > inflation. In fact, the Federal Reserve system was originally designed
      > > to be inflationary. Just check out the inflation chart posted below.
      > > The U.S. never had massive problems with inflation before the Fed was
      > > created, but now it is just wildly out of
      > >
      > control....http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/19-reasons-why-th\
      > > e-federal-reserve-is-at-the-heart-of-our-economic-problems
      > > <
      > http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/19-reasons-why-the-federal-\
      > <http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/19-reasons-why-the-federal->>
      > reserve-is-at-the-heart-of-our-economic-problems>
      > > "But real progress of the (Anna) movement would be when it begins to
      > > tackle inflationcontrol and the monetary system, which is the natural
      > > progression of the line of
      > > agitation."
      > > http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/sbicitizen/message/1567
      > > <http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/sbicitizen/message/1567>
      > > So was there no growth in America prior to 1913? When did America become
      > > a world power?Did the creation of the Federal Reserve aid it in the
      > > great war of 1914-18?
      > > Coming off the gold standard has little to do with it (inflation).
      > > Inflation is primarily linked to the dollar becoming a reserve currency
      > > from 1925 0nward with the reinstation of the briefly lived Gold
      > > Exchange Standard from 1925 to 1931 after the original Gold Standard of
      > > 1819 broke down during the great war. Under this new standard, countries
      > > could hold gold or dollars or pounds as reserves, except for the United
      > > States and the United Kingdom, which held reserves only in gold. This
      > > version broke down in 1931 following Britain's departure from gold
      > > in the face of massive gold and capital outflows. In 1933, President
      > > Franklin D. Roosevelt nationalized gold owned by private citizens and
      > > abrogated contracts in which payment was specified in gold. Between 1946
      > > and 1971, countries operated under the Bretton Woods system. Under this
      > > further modification of the gold standard, most countries settled their
      > > international balances in U.S. dollars, but the U.S. government promised
      > > to redeem other central banks' holdings of dollars for gold at a
      > > fixed rate of thirty-five dollars per ounce. Persistent U.S.
      > > balance-of-payments deficits steadily reduced U.S. gold reserves,
      > > however, reducing confidence in the ability of the United States to
      > > redeem its currency in gold. Finally, on August 15, 1971, President
      > > Richard M. Nixon announced that the United States would no longer redeem
      > > currency for gold. This was the final step in abandoning the gold
      > > standard.
      > > What the monetary system needs is a medium that serves as a store of
      > > value for exchange. Gold is a commodity that is following the same arc
      > > as all the other commodities: demand and supply. Global production
      > > peaked in 2000 or 2001 and is now in decline despite higher prices. The
      > > current value of all the world's gold ever mined is something like five
      > > trillion--a fraction of the total value of global GDP for even a year,
      > > let alone all the stored wealth in real estate, etc. The use of such a
      > > thing--which is a fraction of all the real wealth in the world--as a
      > > representation of all the rest of the world's value rips it entirely out
      > > of its context as a commodity and makes it a fetish.
      > > Our current banking system can be described somewhat like
      > > this:
      > http://www.khanacademy.org/video/banking-18--big-picture-discussion\
      > <http://www.khanacademy.org/video/banking-18--big-picture-discussion>>
      > ?playlist=Banking+and+Money
      > > <
      > http://www.khanacademy.org/video/banking-18--big-picture-discussion?pla\
      > <http://www.khanacademy.org/video/banking-18--big-picture-discussion?pla>>
      > ylist=Banking+and+Money> It is the multiplier fractional reserve system
      > > for creation of money that seems to be the problem.
      > > --- In sbicitizen@yahoogroups.com, "devindersingh" <devgulati@>
      > > wrote:
      > > > The video lifting-the-veil documents why America is no democracy. It
      > > is an oligarchy of business interests that control the political system.
      > > The American Supreme court has legalised corruption in allowing
      > > political funding by corporates. These are but bribes by another name.
      > > > Occupy wall street is a movement for equality - a basic cornerstone of
      > > democracy. How pernicious the business interest is in America,
      > > particularly the financial system?
      > > > Let's go back to some finance basics. Money is created when somebody
      > > takes out a loan from a bank. A debt is a promise to pay
      > > > money in the future in order to buy something today; in other words,
      > > borrowing money is a form of delayed trading. Any time you use money If
      > > the money is borrowed money, you are saying that you will provide an
      > > equivalent good/service in the future.
      > > > What motivates a bank to lend anyone money in the first place?
      > > Interest. Any time money is created through debt, a need to create even
      > > more money in the future is also created. The amount of money must grow
      > > over time, which means that the volume of goods and services must grow
      > > over time as well.
      > > > The whole system of interest-bearing money works fine as long as the
      > > volume of goods and services exchanged for money keeps growing. The
      > > crisis we are seeing today is in part because new money has been created
      > > much faster than goods and services have, and much faster than has been
      > > historically sustainable.
      > > > So in order to survive, the global economy is compelled to keep
      > > growing like a cancer, at an unsustainable rate that will kill its host.
      > > This here explains it very well:
      > > > http://www.eveoftheapoc.com.au/Downloads/DebtVsGrowth.html
      > > > In the video format this explains it exceedingly well:
      > > > http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/money-as-debt-promises-unleashed/
      > > > The Occupy-wall-street movement is asking to address this issue. The
      > > Indian movement against corruption and for democracy cannot afford to
      > > ignore the root of inequality, the nexus between business and politics
      > > with politicians serving as handmaidens of the business oligarchy.
      > > > The Anna movement will have to get down to tackling the monetary
      > > system eventually, in its next widening phase from anti-corruption it began with.
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