Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [The-Dark-Moon] Melodee Wants to Know -- What About Grammar?

Expand Messages
  • Jim Hartley
    Sorry, I am not a Grammar Nazi, and I will fight to the death an editor who comes on like one. First, I will note that I consider good grammar irrelevant in
    Message 1 of 9 , Jul 24, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      Sorry, I am not a Grammar Nazi, and I will fight to the death an editor who comes on like one.

      First, I will note that I consider good grammar irrelevant in dialog. People do not speak with perfect grammar, and establishing a speech pattern for a character is important ... your "ain't" example is a good one. Another place I have had problems is with characters who speak in run-on sentences. I removed the editor's so-called corrections, put it back the way it was, and told the editor, "That's the way she said it. I was there listening to her." I have a space-opera book, Beverly Bronte, Space Chick, due out in November. There is a section in which I am doing dialog in the language of an alien race, where the idea is to make it sound alien but remain intelligible to readers. Some of this is likely to cause a Grammar Nazi to have a brain meltdown: He said, "We go in meeting room to meet High Pandleer. Politeness is military do salute--your salute is known to High Pandleer, knows you cannot do our salute. Politeness is non-military do small bow. He salute our way to all. Comply?"

      Another problem I have is that English is an evolving language, but most grammar texts (and on-line grammar sites) are the same as they were in 1913. One of my pet examples (and there are one or two on-line sites that back me up, but not many) is the use of "then" as a conjunction: "He ran, then he fell down." This is perfectly OK in current speech patterns, but the century-old rules flag it as an error.

      When I write, I listen in my mind to the words, and if it sounds OK, I use it. I will do my best to use good grammar, but the demands of the story override the rules of grammar.

      Jim Hartley
      (And don't get me started on the Chicago Mangle of Style!)

      On 07/24/2013 06:00 AM, Melodee Aaron wrote:
       


      I admit it...I'm a Grammar Nazi. Just ask my kids.

      Maybe it's from nearly 25 years of writing professionally. Maybe it's from being deaf and the written word being my main form of communications. Maybe, as has been suggested more times than I can count, I'm just a bitch.

      Bad grammar and spelling irritate me to no end...especially when it comes from so-called professionals. The reason really doesn't matter all that much.

      Have a look at this article: http://news.yahoo.com/ny-school-issues-reading-list-riddled-errors-105330935.html

      That's right...professional educators screwed it up royally. And some say the education system is just fine. But I digress...

      For the readers...does bad grammar and/or poor spelling in a story bug you? Do you just toss the book aside in disgust, or do you even care? I suspect most readers fall someplace between the two extremes.

      Authors...how much do you focus on grammar and spelling? This is really two questions in one, and I would love to hear how much you worry about it as you write, and how important it is to you in the final release.

      And, authors, what about editors you have worked with...how much emphasis do they put on such matters?

      As you can probably guess, both are important to me, and I try to get it right from the first draft. But let me tell you a story about an editor at a major house I hooked up with many years ago...

      The story was set in rural Arkansas during the depression, and the leading man was a poor farmer with almost no education. He used the word "ain't" in almost every sentence. The misguided copy editor assigned to the book insisted that I remove this "...offensive and non-existent word..." from the entire manuscript or he would tell the acquisitions editor to drop the book. My representative and I talked about it. She contacted the chief editor and made it clear they would publish the story with the dialog as written. If they wanted to muck around with dialog, another publisher would be more than happy to leave it alone. The chief agreed, and pulled the copy editor from the project. By the way, the book spent 17 weeks on the NY Times Best Seller List.

      The moral to the story is not to fear the editors.

      What say you?


      --
    • Paul McDermott
      Dear Melodee! *sharpens claws* Coming to you from a fully-paid-up Lifetime Member [co-Founder?] of the Grammar Gestapo AND the Punctuation Police ... England
      Message 2 of 9 , Jul 24, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Dear Melodee!
        *sharpens claws*
        Coming to you from a fully-paid-up Lifetime Member [co-Founder?] of
        the Grammar Gestapo AND the Punctuation Police ...

        "England and America: two countries separated by a common language."

        I could have written every word of your post myself (apart from the
        OBVIOUS spelling mistake "dialog" which everyone of course knows ought
        to be "dialogue" - at least on THIS side of The Pond!) LOL

        Here's another quote to back up my [intractable!] point of view on this subject:
        "Reading maketh a full man; conference a ready man; and writing an
        exact man." (Francis Bacon)

        I'd go as far as to say that Correct Grammar & Punctuation is little
        more than literary Good Manners. I sailed through eight years of a
        grammar school under the guidance of the Jesuits. Good grammar &
        punctuation (in a VARIETY of languages!!) becomes second nature! :)

        On 24/07/2013, Jim Hartley <linuxjim@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Sorry, I am not a Grammar Nazi, and I will fight to the death an editor who
        > comes on like one.
        >
        > First, I will note that I consider good grammar irrelevant in dialog. People
        > do not speak with perfect grammar, and establishing a speech pattern for a
        > character is important ... your "ain't" example is a good one. Another place
        > I have had problems is with characters who speak in run-on sentences. I
        > removed the editor's so-called corrections, put it back the way it was, and
        > told the editor, "That's the way she said it. I was there listening to her."
        > I have a space-opera book, Beverly Bronte, Space Chick, due out in November.
        > There is a section in which I am doing dialog in the language of an alien
        > race, where the idea is to make it sound alien but remain intelligible to
        > readers. Some of this is likely to cause a Grammar Nazi to have a brain
        > meltdown: He said, "We go in meeting room to meet High Pandleer. Politeness
        > is military do salute--your salute is known to High Pandleer, knows you
        > cannot do our salute. Politeness is non-military do small bow. He salute our
        > way to all. Comply?"
        >
        > Another problem I have is that English is an evolving language, but most
        > grammar texts (and on-line grammar sites) are the same as they were in 1913.
        > One of my pet examples (and there are one or two on-line sites that back me
        > up, but not many) is the use of "then" as a conjunction: "He ran, then he
        > fell down." This is perfectly OK in current speech patterns, but the
        > century-old rules flag it as an error.
        >
        > When I write, I listen in my mind to the words, and if it sounds OK, I use
        > it. I will do my best to use good grammar, but the demands of the story
        > override the rules of grammar.
        >
        > Jim Hartley
        > (And don't get me started on the Chicago Mangle of Style!)
        >
        > On 07/24/2013 06:00 AM, Melodee Aaron wrote:
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> I admit it...I'm a Grammar Nazi. Just ask my kids.
        >>
        >> Maybe it's from nearly 25 years of writing professionally. Maybe it's from
        >> being deaf and the written word being my main form of communications.
        >> Maybe, as has been suggested more times than I can count, I'm just a
        >> bitch.
        >>
        >> Bad grammar and spelling irritate me to no end...especially when it comes
        >> from so-called professionals. The reason really doesn't matter all that
        >> much.
        >>
        >> Have a look at this article:
        >> http://news.yahoo.com/ny-school-issues-reading-list-riddled-errors-105330935.html
        >>
        >>
        >> That's right...professional educators screwed it up royally. And some say
        >> the education system is just fine. But I digress...
        >>
        >> For the readers...does bad grammar and/or poor spelling in a story bug
        >> you? Do you just toss the book aside in disgust, or do you even care? I
        >> suspect most readers fall someplace between the two extremes.
        >>
        >> Authors...how much do you focus on grammar and spelling? This is really
        >> two questions in one, and I would love to hear how much you worry about it
        >> as you write, and how important it is to you in the final release.
        >>
        >> And, authors, what about editors you have worked with...how much emphasis
        >> do they put on such matters?
        >>
        >> As you can probably guess, both are important to me, and I try to get it
        >> right from the first draft. But let me tell you a story about an editor at
        >> a major house I hooked up with many years ago...
        >>
        >> The story was set in rural Arkansas during the depression, and the leading
        >> man was a poor farmer with almost no education. He used the word "ain't"
        >> in almost every sentence. The misguided copy editor assigned to the book
        >> insisted that I remove this "...offensive and non-existent word..." from
        >> the entire manuscript or he would tell the acquisitions editor to drop the
        >> book. My representative and I talked about it. She contacted the chief
        >> editor and made it clear they would publish the story with the dialog as
        >> written. If they wanted to muck around with dialog, another publisher
        >> would be more than happy to leave it alone. The chief agreed, and pulled
        >> the copy editor from the project. By the way, the book spent 17 weeks on
        >> the NY Times Best Seller List.
        >>
        >> The moral to the story is not to fear the editors.
        >>
        >> What say you?
        >>
        >> --
        >>
        >> Keep Loving!
        >> Melodee Aaron, Erotica Romance with No Boundaries
        >> Melodee's Books at BookStrand
        >> Melodee's MySpace, Twitter, FaceBook, Google+, and Yahoo! Group.
        >
        >
        > --
        > [image]
        >
        >
      • Adrianne Brennan
        I spell it dialogue too, and I m a bloody American! LOL Completely agreed that there are some differences between American and British English, however. ~
        Message 3 of 9 , Jul 24, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          I spell it dialogue too, and I'm a bloody American! LOL

          Completely agreed that there are some differences between American and British English, however.



          ~ "Where love and magic meet" ~
          http://www.adriannebrennan.com
          Experience the magic of the Dark Moon series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#darkmoon
          Dare to take The Oath in this erotic fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath
          The future of psychic sex - Dawn of the Seraphs (m/m): http://www.adriannebrennan.com/dawnoftheseraphs.html


          On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 1:29 PM, Paul McDermott <pmcder@...> wrote:
          Dear Melodee!
          *sharpens claws*
          Coming to you from a fully-paid-up Lifetime Member [co-Founder?] of
          the Grammar Gestapo AND the Punctuation Police ...

          "England and America: two countries separated by a common language."

          I could have written every word of your post myself (apart from the
          OBVIOUS spelling mistake "dialog" which everyone of course knows ought
          to be "dialogue" - at least on THIS side of The Pond!)    LOL

          Here's another quote to back up my [intractable!] point of view on this subject:
          "Reading maketh a full man; conference a ready man; and writing an
          exact man." (Francis Bacon)

          I'd go as far as to say that Correct Grammar & Punctuation is little
          more than literary Good Manners. I sailed through eight years of a
          grammar school under the guidance of the Jesuits. Good grammar &
          punctuation (in a VARIETY of languages!!) becomes second nature!   :)

          On 24/07/2013, Jim Hartley <linuxjim@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Sorry, I am not a Grammar Nazi, and I will fight to the death an editor who
          > comes on like one.
          >
          > First, I will note that I consider good grammar irrelevant in dialog. People
          > do not speak with perfect grammar, and establishing a speech pattern for a
          > character is important ... your "ain't" example is a good one. Another place
          > I have had problems is with characters who speak in run-on sentences. I
          > removed the editor's so-called corrections, put it back the way it was, and
          > told the editor, "That's the way she said it. I was there listening to her."
          > I have a space-opera book, Beverly Bronte, Space Chick, due out in November.
          > There is a section in which I am doing dialog in the language of an alien
          > race, where the idea is to make it sound alien but remain intelligible to
          > readers. Some of this is likely to cause a Grammar Nazi to have a brain
          > meltdown: He said, "We go in meeting room to meet High Pandleer. Politeness
          > is military do salute--your salute is known to High Pandleer, knows you
          > cannot do our salute. Politeness is non-military do small bow. He salute our
          > way to all. Comply?"
          >
          > Another problem I have is that English is an evolving language, but most
          > grammar texts (and on-line grammar sites) are the same as they were in 1913.
          > One of my pet examples (and there are one or two on-line sites that back me
          > up, but not many) is the use of "then" as a conjunction: "He ran, then he
          > fell down." This is perfectly OK in current speech patterns, but the
          > century-old rules flag it as an error.
          >
          > When I write, I listen in my mind to the words, and if it sounds OK, I use
          > it. I will do my best to use good grammar, but the demands of the story
          > override the rules of grammar.
          >
          > Jim Hartley
          > (And don't get me started on the Chicago Mangle of Style!)
          >
          > On 07/24/2013 06:00 AM, Melodee Aaron wrote:
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> I admit it...I'm a Grammar Nazi. Just ask my kids.
          >>
          >> Maybe it's from nearly 25 years of writing professionally. Maybe it's from
          >> being deaf and the written word being my main form of communications.
          >> Maybe, as has been suggested more times than I can count, I'm just a
          >> bitch.
          >>
          >> Bad grammar and spelling irritate me to no end...especially when it comes
          >> from so-called professionals. The reason really doesn't matter all that
          >> much.
          >>
          >> Have a look at this article:
          >> http://news.yahoo.com/ny-school-issues-reading-list-riddled-errors-105330935.html
          >>
          >>
          >> That's right...professional educators screwed it up royally. And some say
          >> the education system is just fine. But I digress...
          >>
          >> For the readers...does bad grammar and/or poor spelling in a story bug
          >> you? Do you just toss the book aside in disgust, or do you even care? I
          >> suspect most readers fall someplace between the two extremes.
          >>
          >> Authors...how much do you focus on grammar and spelling? This is really
          >> two questions in one, and I would love to hear how much you worry about it
          >> as you write, and how important it is to you in the final release.
          >>
          >> And, authors, what about editors you have worked with...how much emphasis
          >> do they put on such matters?
          >>
          >> As you can probably guess, both are important to me, and I try to get it
          >> right from the first draft. But let me tell you a story about an editor at
          >> a major house I hooked up with many years ago...
          >>
          >> The story was set in rural Arkansas during the depression, and the leading
          >> man was a poor farmer with almost no education. He used the word "ain't"
          >> in almost every sentence. The misguided copy editor assigned to the book
          >> insisted that I remove this "...offensive and non-existent word..." from
          >> the entire manuscript or he would tell the acquisitions editor to drop the
          >> book. My representative and I talked about it. She contacted the chief
          >> editor and made it clear they would publish the story with the dialog as
          >> written. If they wanted to muck around with dialog, another publisher
          >> would be more than happy to leave it alone. The chief agreed, and pulled
          >> the copy editor from the project. By the way, the book spent 17 weeks on
          >> the NY Times Best Seller List.
          >>
          >> The moral to the story is not to fear the editors.
          >>
          >> What say you?
          >>
          >> --
          >>
          >> Keep Loving!
          >> Melodee Aaron, Erotica Romance with No Boundaries
          >> Melodee's Books at BookStrand
          >> Melodee's MySpace, Twitter, FaceBook, Google+, and Yahoo! Group.
          >
          >
          > --
          > [image]
          >
          >


          ------------------------------------
          Yahoo! Groups Links

          <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The-Dark-Moon/

          <*> Your email settings:
              Individual Email | Traditional

          <*> To change settings online go to:
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The-Dark-Moon/join
              (Yahoo! ID required)

          <*> To change settings via email:
              The-Dark-Moon-digest@yahoogroups.com
              The-Dark-Moon-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

          <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              The-Dark-Moon-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

          <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


        • Melodee Aaron
          heh! Don t get me started on ANY style manual! But there is one VERY important thing to remember about dictionaries and style manuals... They are, effectively,
          Message 4 of 9 , Jul 25, 2013
          • 0 Attachment

            heh! Don't get me started on ANY style manual!

            But there is one VERY important thing to remember about dictionaries and style manuals...

            They are, effectively, written by authors.

            It is we authors who decide what is and is not acceptable in grammar, style, and even the words themselves.

            On 7/24/2013 7:27 AM, Jim Hartley wrote:
            Sorry, I am not a Grammar Nazi, and I will fight to the death an editor who comes on like one.

            First, I will note that I consider good grammar irrelevant in dialog. People do not speak with perfect grammar, and establishing a speech pattern for a character is important ... your "ain't" example is a good one. Another place I have had problems is with characters who speak in run-on sentences. I removed the editor's so-called corrections, put it back the way it was, and told the editor, "That's the way she said it. I was there listening to her." I have a space-opera book, Beverly Bronte, Space Chick, due out in November. There is a section in which I am doing dialog in the language of an alien race, where the idea is to make it sound alien but remain intelligible to readers. Some of this is likely to cause a Grammar Nazi to have a brain meltdown: He said, "We go in meeting room to meet High Pandleer. Politeness is military do salute--your salute is known to High Pandleer, knows you cannot do our salute. Politeness is non-military do small bow. He salute our way to all. Comply?"

            Another problem I have is that English is an evolving language, but most grammar texts (and on-line grammar sites) are the same as they were in 1913. One of my pet examples (and there are one or two on-line sites that back me up, but not many) is the use of "then" as a conjunction: "He ran, then he fell down." This is perfectly OK in current speech patterns, but the century-old rules flag it as an error.

            When I write, I listen in my mind to the words, and if it sounds OK, I use it. I will do my best to use good grammar, but the demands of the story override the rules of grammar.

            Jim Hartley
            (And don't get me started on the Chicago Mangle of Style!)

            On 07/24/2013 06:00 AM, Melodee Aaron wrote:
             


            I admit it...I'm a Grammar Nazi. Just ask my kids.

            Maybe it's from nearly 25 years of writing professionally. Maybe it's from being deaf and the written word being my main form of communications. Maybe, as has been suggested more times than I can count, I'm just a bitch.

            Bad grammar and spelling irritate me to no end...especially when it comes from so-called professionals. The reason really doesn't matter all that much.

            Have a look at this article: http://news.yahoo.com/ny-school-issues-reading-list-riddled-errors-105330935.html

            That's right...professional educators screwed it up royally. And some say the education system is just fine. But I digress...

            For the readers...does bad grammar and/or poor spelling in a story bug you? Do you just toss the book aside in disgust, or do you even care? I suspect most readers fall someplace between the two extremes.

            Authors...how much do you focus on grammar and spelling? This is really two questions in one, and I would love to hear how much you worry about it as you write, and how important it is to you in the final release.

            And, authors, what about editors you have worked with...how much emphasis do they put on such matters?

            As you can probably guess, both are important to me, and I try to get it right from the first draft. But let me tell you a story about an editor at a major house I hooked up with many years ago...

            The story was set in rural Arkansas during the depression, and the leading man was a poor farmer with almost no education. He used the word "ain't" in almost every sentence. The misguided copy editor assigned to the book insisted that I remove this "...offensive and non-existent word..." from the entire manuscript or he would tell the acquisitions editor to drop the book. My representative and I talked about it. She contacted the chief editor and made it clear they would publish the story with the dialog as written. If they wanted to muck around with dialog, another publisher would be more than happy to leave it alone. The chief agreed, and pulled the copy editor from the project. By the way, the book spent 17 weeks on the NY Times Best Seller List.

            The moral to the story is not to fear the editors.

            What say you?


            --

          • Melodee Aaron
            Oh, there s a difference between American and Hillbilly, too. Keep Loving! Melodee Aaron, Erotica Romance with No Boundaries
            Message 5 of 9 , Jul 25, 2013
            • 0 Attachment

              Oh, there's a difference between American and Hillbilly, too.

              On 7/24/2013 11:34 AM, Adrianne Brennan wrote:
              I spell it dialogue too, and I'm a bloody American! LOL

              Completely agreed that there are some differences between American and British English, however.



              ~ "Where love and magic meet" ~
              http://www.adriannebrennan.com
              Experience the magic of the Dark Moon series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#darkmoon
              Dare to take The Oath in this erotic fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath
              The future of psychic sex - Dawn of the Seraphs (m/m): http://www.adriannebrennan.com/dawnoftheseraphs.html


              On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 1:29 PM, Paul McDermott <pmcder@...> wrote:
              Dear Melodee!
              *sharpens claws*
              Coming to you from a fully-paid-up Lifetime Member [co-Founder?] of
              the Grammar Gestapo AND the Punctuation Police ...

              "England and America: two countries separated by a common language."

              I could have written every word of your post myself (apart from the
              OBVIOUS spelling mistake "dialog" which everyone of course knows ought
              to be "dialogue" - at least on THIS side of The Pond!)    LOL

              Here's another quote to back up my [intractable!] point of view on this subject:
              "Reading maketh a full man; conference a ready man; and writing an
              exact man." (Francis Bacon)

              I'd go as far as to say that Correct Grammar & Punctuation is little
              more than literary Good Manners. I sailed through eight years of a
              grammar school under the guidance of the Jesuits. Good grammar &
              punctuation (in a VARIETY of languages!!) becomes second nature!   :)

              On 24/07/2013, Jim Hartley <linuxjim@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Sorry, I am not a Grammar Nazi, and I will fight to the death an editor who
              > comes on like one.
              >
              > First, I will note that I consider good grammar irrelevant in dialog. People
              > do not speak with perfect grammar, and establishing a speech pattern for a
              > character is important ... your "ain't" example is a good one. Another place
              > I have had problems is with characters who speak in run-on sentences. I
              > removed the editor's so-called corrections, put it back the way it was, and
              > told the editor, "That's the way she said it. I was there listening to her."
              > I have a space-opera book, Beverly Bronte, Space Chick, due out in November.
              > There is a section in which I am doing dialog in the language of an alien
              > race, where the idea is to make it sound alien but remain intelligible to
              > readers. Some of this is likely to cause a Grammar Nazi to have a brain
              > meltdown: He said, "We go in meeting room to meet High Pandleer. Politeness
              > is military do salute--your salute is known to High Pandleer, knows you
              > cannot do our salute. Politeness is non-military do small bow. He salute our
              > way to all. Comply?"
              >
              > Another problem I have is that English is an evolving language, but most
              > grammar texts (and on-line grammar sites) are the same as they were in 1913.
              > One of my pet examples (and there are one or two on-line sites that back me
              > up, but not many) is the use of "then" as a conjunction: "He ran, then he
              > fell down." This is perfectly OK in current speech patterns, but the
              > century-old rules flag it as an error.
              >
              > When I write, I listen in my mind to the words, and if it sounds OK, I use
              > it. I will do my best to use good grammar, but the demands of the story
              > override the rules of grammar.
              >
              > Jim Hartley
              > (And don't get me started on the Chicago Mangle of Style!)
              >
              > On 07/24/2013 06:00 AM, Melodee Aaron wrote:
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> I admit it...I'm a Grammar Nazi. Just ask my kids.
              >>
              >> Maybe it's from nearly 25 years of writing professionally. Maybe it's from
              >> being deaf and the written word being my main form of communications.
              >> Maybe, as has been suggested more times than I can count, I'm just a
              >> bitch.
              >>
              >> Bad grammar and spelling irritate me to no end...especially when it comes
              >> from so-called professionals. The reason really doesn't matter all that
              >> much.
              >>
              >> Have a look at this article:
              >> http://news.yahoo.com/ny-school-issues-reading-list-riddled-errors-105330935.html
              >>
              >>
              >> That's right...professional educators screwed it up royally. And some say
              >> the education system is just fine. But I digress...
              >>
              >> For the readers...does bad grammar and/or poor spelling in a story bug
              >> you? Do you just toss the book aside in disgust, or do you even care? I
              >> suspect most readers fall someplace between the two extremes.
              >>
              >> Authors...how much do you focus on grammar and spelling? This is really
              >> two questions in one, and I would love to hear how much you worry about it
              >> as you write, and how important it is to you in the final release.
              >>
              >> And, authors, what about editors you have worked with...how much emphasis
              >> do they put on such matters?
              >>
              >> As you can probably guess, both are important to me, and I try to get it
              >> right from the first draft. But let me tell you a story about an editor at
              >> a major house I hooked up with many years ago...
              >>
              >> The story was set in rural Arkansas during the depression, and the leading
              >> man was a poor farmer with almost no education. He used the word "ain't"
              >> in almost every sentence. The misguided copy editor assigned to the book
              >> insisted that I remove this "...offensive and non-existent word..." from
              >> the entire manuscript or he would tell the acquisitions editor to drop the
              >> book. My representative and I talked about it. She contacted the chief
              >> editor and made it clear they would publish the story with the dialog as
              >> written. If they wanted to muck around with dialog, another publisher
              >> would be more than happy to leave it alone. The chief agreed, and pulled
              >> the copy editor from the project. By the way, the book spent 17 weeks on
              >> the NY Times Best Seller List.
              >>
              >> The moral to the story is not to fear the editors.
              >>
              >> What say you?
              >>
              >> --
              >>
              >> Keep Loving!
              >> Melodee Aaron, Erotica Romance with No Boundaries
              >> Melodee's Books at BookStrand
              >> Melodee's MySpace, Twitter, FaceBook, Google+, and Yahoo! Group.
              >
              >
              > --
              > [image]
              >
              >


              ------------------------------------
              Yahoo! Groups Links

              <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The-Dark-Moon/

              <*> Your email settings:
                  Individual Email | Traditional

              <*> To change settings online go to:
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The-Dark-Moon/join
                  (Yahoo! ID required)

              <*> To change settings via email:
                  The-Dark-Moon-digest@yahoogroups.com
                  The-Dark-Moon-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

              <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  The-Dark-Moon-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

              <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



            • Adrianne Brennan
              I m one of those damn Yankees so I wouldn t know. But there s also some other distinctive dialects that are Southern. ~ Where love and magic meet ~
              Message 6 of 9 , Jul 25, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                I'm one of those "damn Yankees" so I wouldn't know. But there's also some other distinctive dialects that are Southern.

                ~ "Where love and magic meet" ~
                http://www.adriannebrennan.com
                Experience the magic of the Dark Moon series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#darkmoon
                Dare to take The Oath in this erotic fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath
                The future of psychic sex - Dawn of the Seraphs (m/m): http://www.adriannebrennan.com/dawnoftheseraphs.html


                On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 7:06 AM, Melodee Aaron <melodeeaaron@...> wrote:



                Oh, there's a difference between American and Hillbilly, too.
                On 7/24/2013 11:34 AM, Adrianne Brennan wrote:
                I spell it dialogue too, and I'm a bloody American! LOL

                Completely agreed that there are some differences between American and British English, however.



                ~ "Where love and magic meet" ~
                http://www.adriannebrennan.com
                Experience the magic of the Dark Moon series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#darkmoon
                Dare to take The Oath in this erotic fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath
                The future of psychic sex - Dawn of the Seraphs (m/m): http://www.adriannebrennan.com/dawnoftheseraphs.html


                On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 1:29 PM, Paul McDermott <pmcder@...> wrote:
                Dear Melodee!
                *sharpens claws*
                Coming to you from a fully-paid-up Lifetime Member [co-Founder?] of
                the Grammar Gestapo AND the Punctuation Police ...

                "England and America: two countries separated by a common language."

                I could have written every word of your post myself (apart from the
                OBVIOUS spelling mistake "dialog" which everyone of course knows ought
                to be "dialogue" - at least on THIS side of The Pond!)    LOL

                Here's another quote to back up my [intractable!] point of view on this subject:
                "Reading maketh a full man; conference a ready man; and writing an
                exact man." (Francis Bacon)

                I'd go as far as to say that Correct Grammar & Punctuation is little
                more than literary Good Manners. I sailed through eight years of a
                grammar school under the guidance of the Jesuits. Good grammar &
                punctuation (in a VARIETY of languages!!) becomes second nature!   :)

                On 24/07/2013, Jim Hartley <linuxjim@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > Sorry, I am not a Grammar Nazi, and I will fight to the death an editor who
                > comes on like one.
                >
                > First, I will note that I consider good grammar irrelevant in dialog. People
                > do not speak with perfect grammar, and establishing a speech pattern for a
                > character is important ... your "ain't" example is a good one. Another place
                > I have had problems is with characters who speak in run-on sentences. I
                > removed the editor's so-called corrections, put it back the way it was, and
                > told the editor, "That's the way she said it. I was there listening to her."
                > I have a space-opera book, Beverly Bronte, Space Chick, due out in November.
                > There is a section in which I am doing dialog in the language of an alien
                > race, where the idea is to make it sound alien but remain intelligible to
                > readers. Some of this is likely to cause a Grammar Nazi to have a brain
                > meltdown: He said, "We go in meeting room to meet High Pandleer. Politeness
                > is military do salute--your salute is known to High Pandleer, knows you
                > cannot do our salute. Politeness is non-military do small bow. He salute our
                > way to all. Comply?"
                >
                > Another problem I have is that English is an evolving language, but most
                > grammar texts (and on-line grammar sites) are the same as they were in 1913.
                > One of my pet examples (and there are one or two on-line sites that back me
                > up, but not many) is the use of "then" as a conjunction: "He ran, then he
                > fell down." This is perfectly OK in current speech patterns, but the
                > century-old rules flag it as an error.
                >
                > When I write, I listen in my mind to the words, and if it sounds OK, I use
                > it. I will do my best to use good grammar, but the demands of the story
                > override the rules of grammar.
                >
                > Jim Hartley
                > (And don't get me started on the Chicago Mangle of Style!)
                >
                > On 07/24/2013 06:00 AM, Melodee Aaron wrote:
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> I admit it...I'm a Grammar Nazi. Just ask my kids.
                >>
                >> Maybe it's from nearly 25 years of writing professionally. Maybe it's from
                >> being deaf and the written word being my main form of communications.
                >> Maybe, as has been suggested more times than I can count, I'm just a
                >> bitch.
                >>
                >> Bad grammar and spelling irritate me to no end...especially when it comes
                >> from so-called professionals. The reason really doesn't matter all that
                >> much.
                >>
                >> Have a look at this article:
                >> http://news.yahoo.com/ny-school-issues-reading-list-riddled-errors-105330935.html
                >>
                >>
                >> That's right...professional educators screwed it up royally. And some say
                >> the education system is just fine. But I digress...
                >>
                >> For the readers...does bad grammar and/or poor spelling in a story bug
                >> you? Do you just toss the book aside in disgust, or do you even care? I
                >> suspect most readers fall someplace between the two extremes.
                >>
                >> Authors...how much do you focus on grammar and spelling? This is really
                >> two questions in one, and I would love to hear how much you worry about it
                >> as you write, and how important it is to you in the final release.
                >>
                >> And, authors, what about editors you have worked with...how much emphasis
                >> do they put on such matters?
                >>
                >> As you can probably guess, both are important to me, and I try to get it
                >> right from the first draft. But let me tell you a story about an editor at
                >> a major house I hooked up with many years ago...
                >>
                >> The story was set in rural Arkansas during the depression, and the leading
                >> man was a poor farmer with almost no education. He used the word "ain't"
                >> in almost every sentence. The misguided copy editor assigned to the book
                >> insisted that I remove this "...offensive and non-existent word..." from
                >> the entire manuscript or he would tell the acquisitions editor to drop the
                >> book. My representative and I talked about it. She contacted the chief
                >> editor and made it clear they would publish the story with the dialog as
                >> written. If they wanted to muck around with dialog, another publisher
                >> would be more than happy to leave it alone. The chief agreed, and pulled
                >> the copy editor from the project. By the way, the book spent 17 weeks on
                >> the NY Times Best Seller List.
                >>
                >> The moral to the story is not to fear the editors.
                >>
                >> What say you?
                >>
                >> --
                >>
                >> Keep Loving!
                >> Melodee Aaron, Erotica Romance with No Boundaries
                >> Melodee's Books at BookStrand
                >> Melodee's MySpace, Twitter, FaceBook, Google+, and Yahoo! Group.
                >
                >
                > --
                > [image]
                >
                >


                ------------------------------------
                Yahoo! Groups Links

                <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The-Dark-Moon/

                <*> Your email settings:
                    Individual Email | Traditional

                <*> To change settings online go to:
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The-Dark-Moon/join
                    (Yahoo! ID required)

                <*> To change settings via email:
                    The-Dark-Moon-digest@yahoogroups.com
                    The-Dark-Moon-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

                <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    The-Dark-Moon-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/






              • Melodee Aaron
                Um...honey? There are some distinctive dialects that are down east, too. :) Keep Loving! Melodee Aaron, Erotica Romance with No Boundaries
                Message 7 of 9 , Jul 26, 2013
                • 0 Attachment

                  Um...honey?

                  There are some distinctive dialects that are down east, too. :)

                  On 7/25/2013 6:27 AM, Adrianne Brennan wrote:
                  I'm one of those "damn Yankees" so I wouldn't know. But there's also some other distinctive dialects that are Southern.

                  ~ "Where love and magic meet" ~
                  http://www.adriannebrennan.com
                  Experience the magic of the Dark Moon series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#darkmoon
                  Dare to take The Oath in this erotic fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath
                  The future of psychic sex - Dawn of the Seraphs (m/m): http://www.adriannebrennan.com/dawnoftheseraphs.html


                  On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 7:06 AM, Melodee Aaron <melodeeaaron@...> wrote:



                  Oh, there's a difference between American and Hillbilly, too.
                  On 7/24/2013 11:34 AM, Adrianne Brennan wrote:
                  I spell it dialogue too, and I'm a bloody American! LOL

                  Completely agreed that there are some differences between American and British English, however.



                  ~ "Where love and magic meet" ~
                  http://www.adriannebrennan.com
                  Experience the magic of the Dark Moon series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#darkmoon
                  Dare to take The Oath in this erotic fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath
                  The future of psychic sex - Dawn of the Seraphs (m/m): http://www.adriannebrennan.com/dawnoftheseraphs.html


                  On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 1:29 PM, Paul McDermott <pmcder@...> wrote:
                  Dear Melodee!
                  *sharpens claws*
                  Coming to you from a fully-paid-up Lifetime Member [co-Founder?] of
                  the Grammar Gestapo AND the Punctuation Police ...

                  "England and America: two countries separated by a common language."

                  I could have written every word of your post myself (apart from the
                  OBVIOUS spelling mistake "dialog" which everyone of course knows ought
                  to be "dialogue" - at least on THIS side of The Pond!)    LOL

                  Here's another quote to back up my [intractable!] point of view on this subject:
                  "Reading maketh a full man; conference a ready man; and writing an
                  exact man." (Francis Bacon)

                  I'd go as far as to say that Correct Grammar & Punctuation is little
                  more than literary Good Manners. I sailed through eight years of a
                  grammar school under the guidance of the Jesuits. Good grammar &
                  punctuation (in a VARIETY of languages!!) becomes second nature!   :)

                  On 24/07/2013, Jim Hartley <linuxjim@...>wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Sorry, I am not a Grammar Nazi, and I will fight to the death an editor who
                  > comes on like one.
                  >
                  > First, I will note that I consider good grammar irrelevant in dialog. People
                  > do not speak with perfect grammar, and establishing a speech pattern for a
                  > character is important ... your "ain't" example is a good one. Another place
                  > I have had problems is with characters who speak in run-on sentences. I
                  > removed the editor's so-called corrections, put it back the way it was, and
                  > told the editor, "That's the way she said it. I was there listening to her."
                  > I have a space-opera book, Beverly Bronte, Space Chick, due out in November.
                  > There is a section in which I am doing dialog in the language of an alien
                  > race, where the idea is to make it sound alien but remain intelligible to
                  > readers. Some of this is likely to cause a Grammar Nazi to have a brain
                  > meltdown: He said, "We go in meeting room to meet High Pandleer. Politeness
                  > is military do salute--your salute is known to High Pandleer, knows you
                  > cannot do our salute. Politeness is non-military do small bow. He salute our
                  > way to all. Comply?"
                  >
                  > Another problem I have is that English is an evolving language, but most
                  > grammar texts (and on-line grammar sites) are the same as they were in 1913.
                  > One of my pet examples (and there are one or two on-line sites that back me
                  > up, but not many) is the use of "then" as a conjunction: "He ran, then he
                  > fell down." This is perfectly OK in current speech patterns, but the
                  > century-old rules flag it as an error.
                  >
                  > When I write, I listen in my mind to the words, and if it sounds OK, I use
                  > it. I will do my best to use good grammar, but the demands of the story
                  > override the rules of grammar.
                  >
                  > Jim Hartley
                  > (And don't get me started on the Chicago Mangle of Style!)
                  >
                  > On 07/24/2013 06:00 AM, Melodee Aaron wrote:
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> I admit it...I'm a Grammar Nazi. Just ask my kids.
                  >>
                  >> Maybe it's from nearly 25 years of writing professionally. Maybe it's from
                  >> being deaf and the written word being my main form of communications.
                  >> Maybe, as has been suggested more times than I can count, I'm just a
                  >> bitch.
                  >>
                  >> Bad grammar and spelling irritate me to no end...especially when it comes
                  >> from so-called professionals. The reason really doesn't matter all that
                  >> much.
                  >>
                  >> Have a look at this article:
                  >> http://news.yahoo.com/ny-school-issues-reading-list-riddled-errors-105330935.html
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> That's right...professional educators screwed it up royally. And some say
                  >> the education system is just fine. But I digress...
                  >>
                  >> For the readers...does bad grammar and/or poor spelling in a story bug
                  >> you? Do you just toss the book aside in disgust, or do you even care? I
                  >> suspect most readers fall someplace between the two extremes.
                  >>
                  >> Authors...how much do you focus on grammar and spelling? This is really
                  >> two questions in one, and I would love to hear how much you worry about it
                  >> as you write, and how important it is to you in the final release.
                  >>
                  >> And, authors, what about editors you have worked with...how much emphasis
                  >> do they put on such matters?
                  >>
                  >> As you can probably guess, both are important to me, and I try to get it
                  >> right from the first draft. But let me tell you a story about an editor at
                  >> a major house I hooked up with many years ago...
                  >>
                  >> The story was set in rural Arkansas during the depression, and the leading
                  >> man was a poor farmer with almost no education. He used the word "ain't"
                  >> in almost every sentence. The misguided copy editor assigned to the book
                  >> insisted that I remove this "...offensive and non-existent word..." from
                  >> the entire manuscript or he would tell the acquisitions editor to drop the
                  >> book. My representative and I talked about it. She contacted the chief
                  >> editor and made it clear they would publish the story with the dialog as
                  >> written. If they wanted to muck around with dialog, another publisher
                  >> would be more than happy to leave it alone. The chief agreed, and pulled
                  >> the copy editor from the project. By the way, the book spent 17 weeks on
                  >> the NY Times Best Seller List.
                  >>
                  >> The moral to the story is not to fear the editors.
                  >>
                  >> What say you?
                  >>
                  >> --
                  >>
                  >> Keep Loving!
                  >> Melodee Aaron, Erotica Romance with No Boundaries
                  >> Melodee's Books at BookStrand
                  >> Melodee's MySpace, Twitter, FaceBook, Google+, and Yahoo! Group.
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > [image]
                  >
                  >


                  ------------------------------------
                  Yahoo! Groups Links

                  <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The-Dark-Moon/

                  <*> Your email settings:
                      Individual Email | Traditional

                  <*> To change settings online go to:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The-Dark-Moon/join
                      (Yahoo! ID required)

                  <*> To change settings via email:
                      The-Dark-Moon-digest@yahoogroups.com
                      The-Dark-Moon-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

                  <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      The-Dark-Moon-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                  <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/







                • Adrianne Brennan
                  I m sorry honey, but I just got back from the packie for a frappe, explain to this Bostonian what down east means because I m wicked confused. ~ Where love
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jul 26, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I'm sorry honey, but I just got back from the packie for a frappe, explain to this Bostonian what "down east" means because I'm wicked confused.


                    ~ "Where love and magic meet" ~
                    http://www.adriannebrennan.com
                    Experience the magic of the Dark Moon series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#darkmoon
                    Dare to take The Oath in this erotic fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath
                    The future of psychic sex - Dawn of the Seraphs (m/m): http://www.adriannebrennan.com/dawnoftheseraphs.html


                    On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 7:57 AM, Melodee Aaron <melodeeaaron@...> wrote:



                    Um...honey?

                    There are some distinctive dialects that are down east, too. :)
                    On 7/25/2013 6:27 AM, Adrianne Brennan wrote:
                    I'm one of those "damn Yankees" so I wouldn't know. But there's also some other distinctive dialects that are Southern.

                    ~ "Where love and magic meet" ~
                    http://www.adriannebrennan.com
                    Experience the magic of the Dark Moon series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#darkmoon
                    Dare to take The Oath in this erotic fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath
                    The future of psychic sex - Dawn of the Seraphs (m/m): http://www.adriannebrennan.com/dawnoftheseraphs.html


                    On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 7:06 AM, Melodee Aaron <melodeeaaron@...> wrote:



                    Oh, there's a difference between American and Hillbilly, too.
                    On 7/24/2013 11:34 AM, Adrianne Brennan wrote:
                    I spell it dialogue too, and I'm a bloody American! LOL

                    Completely agreed that there are some differences between American and British English, however.



                    ~ "Where love and magic meet" ~
                    http://www.adriannebrennan.com
                    Experience the magic of the Dark Moon series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#darkmoon
                    Dare to take The Oath in this erotic fantasy series: http://www.adriannebrennan.com/books.html#the_oath
                    The future of psychic sex - Dawn of the Seraphs (m/m): http://www.adriannebrennan.com/dawnoftheseraphs.html


                    On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 1:29 PM, Paul McDermott <pmcder@...> wrote:
                    Dear Melodee!
                    *sharpens claws*
                    Coming to you from a fully-paid-up Lifetime Member [co-Founder?] of
                    the Grammar Gestapo AND the Punctuation Police ...

                    "England and America: two countries separated by a common language."

                    I could have written every word of your post myself (apart from the
                    OBVIOUS spelling mistake "dialog" which everyone of course knows ought
                    to be "dialogue" - at least on THIS side of The Pond!)    LOL

                    Here's another quote to back up my [intractable!] point of view on this subject:
                    "Reading maketh a full man; conference a ready man; and writing an
                    exact man." (Francis Bacon)

                    I'd go as far as to say that Correct Grammar & Punctuation is little
                    more than literary Good Manners. I sailed through eight years of a
                    grammar school under the guidance of the Jesuits. Good grammar &
                    punctuation (in a VARIETY of languages!!) becomes second nature!   :)

                    On 24/07/2013, Jim Hartley <linuxjim@...>wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Sorry, I am not a Grammar Nazi, and I will fight to the death an editor who
                    > comes on like one.
                    >
                    > First, I will note that I consider good grammar irrelevant in dialog. People
                    > do not speak with perfect grammar, and establishing a speech pattern for a
                    > character is important ... your "ain't" example is a good one. Another place
                    > I have had problems is with characters who speak in run-on sentences. I
                    > removed the editor's so-called corrections, put it back the way it was, and
                    > told the editor, "That's the way she said it. I was there listening to her."
                    > I have a space-opera book, Beverly Bronte, Space Chick, due out in November.
                    > There is a section in which I am doing dialog in the language of an alien
                    > race, where the idea is to make it sound alien but remain intelligible to
                    > readers. Some of this is likely to cause a Grammar Nazi to have a brain
                    > meltdown: He said, "We go in meeting room to meet High Pandleer. Politeness
                    > is military do salute--your salute is known to High Pandleer, knows you
                    > cannot do our salute. Politeness is non-military do small bow. He salute our
                    > way to all. Comply?"
                    >
                    > Another problem I have is that English is an evolving language, but most
                    > grammar texts (and on-line grammar sites) are the same as they were in 1913.
                    > One of my pet examples (and there are one or two on-line sites that back me
                    > up, but not many) is the use of "then" as a conjunction: "He ran, then he
                    > fell down." This is perfectly OK in current speech patterns, but the
                    > century-old rules flag it as an error.
                    >
                    > When I write, I listen in my mind to the words, and if it sounds OK, I use
                    > it. I will do my best to use good grammar, but the demands of the story
                    > override the rules of grammar.
                    >
                    > Jim Hartley
                    > (And don't get me started on the Chicago Mangle of Style!)
                    >
                    > On 07/24/2013 06:00 AM, Melodee Aaron wrote:
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> I admit it...I'm a Grammar Nazi. Just ask my kids.
                    >>
                    >> Maybe it's from nearly 25 years of writing professionally. Maybe it's from
                    >> being deaf and the written word being my main form of communications.
                    >> Maybe, as has been suggested more times than I can count, I'm just a
                    >> bitch.
                    >>
                    >> Bad grammar and spelling irritate me to no end...especially when it comes
                    >> from so-called professionals. The reason really doesn't matter all that
                    >> much.
                    >>
                    >> Have a look at this article:
                    >> http://news.yahoo.com/ny-school-issues-reading-list-riddled-errors-105330935.html
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> That's right...professional educators screwed it up royally. And some say
                    >> the education system is just fine. But I digress...
                    >>
                    >> For the readers...does bad grammar and/or poor spelling in a story bug
                    >> you? Do you just toss the book aside in disgust, or do you even care? I
                    >> suspect most readers fall someplace between the two extremes.
                    >>
                    >> Authors...how much do you focus on grammar and spelling? This is really
                    >> two questions in one, and I would love to hear how much you worry about it
                    >> as you write, and how important it is to you in the final release.
                    >>
                    >> And, authors, what about editors you have worked with...how much emphasis
                    >> do they put on such matters?
                    >>
                    >> As you can probably guess, both are important to me, and I try to get it
                    >> right from the first draft. But let me tell you a story about an editor at
                    >> a major house I hooked up with many years ago...
                    >>
                    >> The story was set in rural Arkansas during the depression, and the leading
                    >> man was a poor farmer with almost no education. He used the word "ain't"
                    >> in almost every sentence. The misguided copy editor assigned to the book
                    >> insisted that I remove this "...offensive and non-existent word..." from
                    >> the entire manuscript or he would tell the acquisitions editor to drop the
                    >> book. My representative and I talked about it. She contacted the chief
                    >> editor and made it clear they would publish the story with the dialog as
                    >> written. If they wanted to muck around with dialog, another publisher
                    >> would be more than happy to leave it alone. The chief agreed, and pulled
                    >> the copy editor from the project. By the way, the book spent 17 weeks on
                    >> the NY Times Best Seller List.
                    >>
                    >> The moral to the story is not to fear the editors.
                    >>
                    >> What say you?
                    >>
                    >> --
                    >>
                    >> Keep Loving!
                    >> Melodee Aaron, Erotica Romance with No Boundaries
                    >> Melodee's Books at BookStrand
                    >> Melodee's MySpace, Twitter, FaceBook, Google+, and Yahoo! Group.
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > [image]
                    >
                    >


                    ------------------------------------
                    Yahoo! Groups Links

                    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The-Dark-Moon/

                    <*> Your email settings:
                        Individual Email | Traditional

                    <*> To change settings online go to:
                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The-Dark-Moon/join
                        (Yahoo! ID required)

                    <*> To change settings via email:
                        The-Dark-Moon-digest@yahoogroups.com
                        The-Dark-Moon-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

                    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        The-Dark-Moon-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/










                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.