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Notes in baptism record

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  • vmichna
    I found an interesting baptism record. It has all of the usual info like child s name, birthdate, baptismal date, parents, sponsors, and the priest s name,
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 19, 2013
      I found an interesting baptism record. It has all of the usual info like child's name, birthdate, baptismal date, parents, sponsors, and the priest's name, but it has a note that appears to be in latin.

      I cannot make out the words completely, but it looks like "Pr_ _ _ illigitiu_."

      This child was born in 1894, the year after her mother bought land in the Granger area (I have a digital copy of the deed). I was also under the belief that the mother's husband died in 1889 and is buried in St Mary's Cemetery in Taylor. So here is my question:

      If this child were illigitimate, why would the woman's dead husband be listed in the record?

      As the internment records from this time period from St Mary's have been lost, I cannot confirm the death of her husband, but a cemetery marker says that a man with his name died in 1889. And that marker is near other markers with the same name.

      Also, the obit for the mother (who died in 1928) says that she died at the home of this particular daughter, so I am sure that I have the right people.

      I do have to admit that I have not seen evidence of illigitimate births in the Catholic baptismal records since they all look complete and neat, so any insight into this topic would be helpful.

      Valorie Michna
    • Allen Livanec
       The words are spelled: Puer Illegitimus. Which means Illegitimate Child in Latin. ________________________________ From: vmichna To:
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 19, 2013
         The words are spelled: Puer Illegitimus. Which means "Illegitimate Child" in Latin.


        From: vmichna <vmichna@...>
        To: TexasCzechs@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tue, February 19, 2013 4:32:25 PM
        Subject: [TexasCzechs] Notes in baptism record

         

        I found an interesting baptism record. It has all of the usual info like child's name, birthdate, baptismal date, parents, sponsors, and the priest's name, but it has a note that appears to be in latin.

        I cannot make out the words completely, but it looks like "Pr_ _ _ illigitiu_."

        This child was born in 1894, the year after her mother bought land in the Granger area (I have a digital copy of the deed). I was also under the belief that the mother's husband died in 1889 and is buried in St Mary's Cemetery in Taylor. So here is my question:

        If this child were illigitimate, why would the woman's dead husband be listed in the record?

        As the internment records from this time period from St Mary's have been lost, I cannot confirm the death of her husband, but a cemetery marker says that a man with his name died in 1889. And that marker is near other markers with the same name.

        Also, the obit for the mother (who died in 1928) says that she died at the home of this particular daughter, so I am sure that I have the right people.

        I do have to admit that I have not seen evidence of illigitimate births in the Catholic baptismal records since they all look complete and neat, so any insight into this topic would be helpful.

        Valorie Michna

      • Regina Janak
        I am transcribing some baptismal records for a Catholic Church and I asked the priest about the words Illegitimate Child and he told me it just means that
        Message 3 of 4 , Feb 20, 2013
          I am transcribing some baptismal records for a Catholic Church and I
          asked the priest about the words "Illegitimate Child" and he told me
          it just means that the parents were married but just not in the
          Catholic Church. And if they were married in the Catholic Church next
          to were it says it is a boy or a girl in latin it would say in latin
          "Legitimate".

          Regina

          On 2/19/13, vmichna <vmichna@...> wrote:
          > I found an interesting baptism record. It has all of the usual info like
          > child's name, birthdate, baptismal date, parents, sponsors, and the priest's
          > name, but it has a note that appears to be in latin.
          >
          > I cannot make out the words completely, but it looks like "Pr_ _ _
          > illigitiu_."
          >
          > This child was born in 1894, the year after her mother bought land in the
          > Granger area (I have a digital copy of the deed). I was also under the
          > belief that the mother's husband died in 1889 and is buried in St Mary's
          > Cemetery in Taylor. So here is my question:
          >
          > If this child were illigitimate, why would the woman's dead husband be
          > listed in the record?
          >
          > As the internment records from this time period from St Mary's have been
          > lost, I cannot confirm the death of her husband, but a cemetery marker says
          > that a man with his name died in 1889. And that marker is near other
          > markers with the same name.
          >
          > Also, the obit for the mother (who died in 1928) says that she died at the
          > home of this particular daughter, so I am sure that I have the right
          > people.
          >
          > I do have to admit that I have not seen evidence of illigitimate births in
          > the Catholic baptismal records since they all look complete and neat, so any
          > insight into this topic would be helpful.
          >
          > Valorie Michna
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • David Crider
          Valerie,   It appears to me that your illegible phrase must be one of the following or variant thereof, depending upon whether the priest was using Classical
          Message 4 of 4 , Feb 20, 2013
            Valerie,
             
            It appears to me that your illegible phrase must be one of the following or variant thereof, depending upon whether the priest was using Classical Latin, Late Latin, Church Latin, or the so-called "American Latin," and also upon how well educated he was in it.
            "Puer illegitimus" [illegitimate boy]
            "Puella illegitima" [illegitimate girl]
            "Puellum illegitimum" [illegitimate child]
             

            Better yet, if you wish, you may send me a scan of the document (or any other documents) and I will try to decipher the handwriting and translate.  Latin, German, Czech, Slovak, Polish, it does not matter.

             

            David

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