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Austria, Czechoslovakia, or Czech Republic?

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  • Robert and Nancy
    When you record the place of birth of your ancestors, do you use Austria, Czechslovakia or Czech Republic? I have seen each of those used in research from
    Message 1 of 20 , Feb 23 7:42 PM
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      When you record the place of birth of your ancestors, do you use Austria, Czechslovakia or Czech Republic?  I have seen each of those used in research from other people and was just wondering if there is a "proper" method. 
       
      I would lean toward using Austria since that was the country at the time that most of my ancestors were born.  But I can see the case for using Czech Republic since that is currently the name of the country and if someone was taking my research and looking on a map to find the villages, they would find them in the Czech Republic rather than in Austria.
       
      Call me confused...LOL!  Just curious to know how everyone else records the place of birth.
       
      Nancy Schmidt
    • ginwill62@sbcglobal.net
      Because all the official papers I ve seen use Austria that s what I use.In the family tree I put the village, province (state) Moravia then Austria. ... From:
      Message 2 of 20 , Feb 23 8:06 PM
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        Because all the official papers I've seen use Austria that's what I use.In the family tree I put the village, province (state) Moravia then Austria.

        --- On Tue, 2/23/10, Robert and Nancy <rschmidt@...> wrote:

        From: Robert and Nancy <rschmidt@...>
        Subject: [TexasCzechs] Austria, Czechoslovakia, or Czech Republic?
        To: TexasCzechs@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, February 23, 2010, 9:42 PM

         
        When you record the place of birth of your ancestors, do you use Austria, Czechslovakia or Czech Republic?  I have seen each of those used in research from other people and was just wondering if there is a "proper" method. 
         
        I would lean toward using Austria since that was the country at the time that most of my ancestors were born.  But I can see the case for using Czech Republic since that is currently the name of the country and if someone was taking my research and looking on a map to find the villages, they would find them in the Czech Republic rather than in Austria.
         
        Call me confused...LOL!  Just curious to know how everyone else records the place of birth.
         
        Nancy Schmidt
      • Matt Cross
        I try to use the location at the time of the event, so I have Austria, Bohemia, Moravia, and Czechoslovakia in my files. Matt Cross lennonluv@hotmail.com
        Message 3 of 20 , Feb 23 8:37 PM
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          I try to use the location at the time of the event, so I have Austria, Bohemia, Moravia, and Czechoslovakia in my files.

          Matt Cross
          lennonluv@...
          "Madness is the first sign of dandruff." -- John Lennon


          When you record the place of birth of your ancestors, do you use Austria, Czechslovakia or Czech Republic?  I have seen each of those used in research from other people and was just wondering if there is a "proper" method. 
           
          I would lean toward using Austria since that was the country at the time that most of my ancestors were born.  But I can see the case for using Czech Republic since that is currently the name of the country and if someone was taking my research and looking on a map to find the villages, they would find them in the Czech Republic rather than in Austria.
           
          Call me confused...LOL!  Just curious to know how everyone else records the place of birth.
           
          Nancy Schmidt


          Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. Get it now.
        • vmichna
          Like Matt I use the name of the location at the time of the event so I have the names of the province, followed by the name of the country at the time (usually
          Message 4 of 20 , Feb 24 6:21 AM
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            Like Matt I use the name of the location at the time of the event so I have the names of the province, followed by the name of the country at the time (usually Austria). I like to be consistant and historically accurate if possible. So my convention is address, town/village, province, country.

            Also, if you document your sources this may clear up some of the potential confusion, because it gives that fact a frame of reference.

            Valorie Michna

            --- In TexasCzechs@yahoogroups.com, Matt Cross <lennonluv@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > I try to use the location at the time of the event, so I have Austria, Bohemia, Moravia, and Czechoslovakia in my files.
            >
            >
            > Matt Cross
            > lennonluv@...
            > "Madness is the first sign of dandruff." -- John Lennon
            >
            >
            > When you record the place of birth of your ancestors, do you use Austria, Czechslovakia or Czech Republic? I have seen each of those used in research from other people and was just wondering if there is a "proper" method.
            >
            > I would lean toward using Austria since that was the country at the time that most of my ancestors were born. But I can see the case for using Czech Republic since that is currently the name of the country and if someone was taking my research and looking on a map to find the villages, they would find them in the Czech Republic rather than in Austria.
            >
            > Call me confused...LOL! Just curious to know how everyone else records the place of birth.
            >
            > Nancy Schmidt
            > _________________________________________________________________
            > Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
            > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/
            >
          • Buster Mitchell
            How about putting what ever they claimed - Austrian Empire, Bohemia, Moravia, etc.. and then in parenthesis put what ever it is called now... just my opinion.
            Message 5 of 20 , Feb 24 7:13 AM
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              How about putting what ever they claimed - Austrian Empire, Bohemia, Moravia, etc.. and then in parenthesis put what ever it is called now... just my opinion.
               
              buster


              From: Robert and Nancy <rschmidt@...>
              To: TexasCzechs@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tue, February 23, 2010 9:42:56 PM
              Subject: [TexasCzechs] Austria, Czechoslovakia, or Czech Republic?

               

              When you record the place of birth of your ancestors, do you use Austria, Czechslovakia or Czech Republic?  I have seen each of those used in research from other people and was just wondering if there is a "proper" method. 
               
              I would lean toward using Austria since that was the country at the time that most of my ancestors were born.  But I can see the case for using Czech Republic since that is currently the name of the country and if someone was taking my research and looking on a map to find the villages, they would find them in the Czech Republic rather than in Austria.
               
              Call me confused...LOL!  Just curious to know how everyone else records the place of birth.
               
              Nancy Schmidt

            • vmichna
              The problem I found with that was that sometimes the place recorded was wrong. For example, you would know a person was from a village in Moravia, but another
              Message 6 of 20 , Feb 24 12:27 PM
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                The problem I found with that was that sometimes the place recorded was wrong. For example, you would know a person was from a village in Moravia, but another record would record Bohemia, for example.

                Also, records aren't perfect, so there has to be compromises in this area. The fact is that not everyone knew where their family or relative was from and either they got it wrong or were unsure.

                That is why I chose to be consitant across the board and go with historical accuaracy.

                Valorie

                --- In TexasCzechs@yahoogroups.com, Buster Mitchell <bmit1313@...> wrote:
                >
                > How about putting what ever they claimed - Austrian Empire, Bohemia, Moravia, etc.. and then in parenthesis put what ever it is called now... just my opinion.
                >
                > buster
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: Robert and Nancy <rschmidt@...>
                > To: TexasCzechs@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Tue, February 23, 2010 9:42:56 PM
                > Subject: [TexasCzechs] Austria, Czechoslovakia, or Czech Republic?
                >
                >  
                > When you record the place of birth of your ancestors, do you use Austria, Czechslovakia or Czech Republic?  I have seen each of those used in research from other people and was just wondering if there is a "proper" method. 
                >  
                > I would lean toward using Austria since that was the country at the time that most of my ancestors were born.  But I can see the case for using Czech Republic since that is currently the name of the country and if someone was taking my research and looking on a map to find the villages, they would find them in the Czech Republic rather than in Austria.
                >  
                > Call me confused...LOL!  Just curious to know how everyone else records the place of birth.
                >  
                > Nancy Schmidt
                >
              • FayeLee39@aol.com
                But the census takers would put down Bohemia, Moravia, Czech or Austria for anyone that came from that entire area. And there methods changed from census to
                Message 7 of 20 , Feb 24 7:40 PM
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                  But the census takers would put down Bohemia, Moravia, Czech or Austria for anyone that came from that entire area.  And there methods changed from census to census.  So if they listed Moravia for a person, that person or family could well have been from Bohemia. US census takers most likely lived the area of census work.  If the area had many Czech's he or she would just group them all into Bohemia, or Moravian etc.  The census' are surely not very accurate for pin pointing a difference in the area we are talking about. 

                  Cullis Holub



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: vmichna <vmichna@...>
                  To: TexasCzechs@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:27 pm
                  Subject: [TexasCzechs] Re: Austria, Czechoslovakia, or Czech Republic?

                   
                  The problem I found with that was that sometimes the place recorded was wrong. For example, you would know a person was from a village in Moravia, but another record would record Bohemia, for example.

                  Also, records aren't perfect, so there has to be compromises in this area. The fact is that not everyone knew where their family or relative was from and either they got it wrong or were unsure.

                  That is why I chose to be consitant across the board and go with historical accuaracy.

                  Valorie

                  --- In TexasCzechs@ yahoogroups. com, Buster Mitchell <bmit1313@.. .> wrote:
                  >
                  > How about putting what ever they claimed - Austrian Empire, Bohemia, Moravia, etc.. and then in parenthesis put what ever it is called now... just my opinion.
                  >
                  > buster
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ____________ _________ _________ __
                  > From: Robert and Nancy <rschmidt@.. .>
                  > To: TexasCzechs@ yahoogroups. com
                  > Sent: Tue, February 23, 2010 9:42:56 PM
                  > Subject: [TexasCzechs] Austria, Czechoslovakia, or Czech Republic?
                  >
                  >  
                  > When you record the place of birth of your ancestors, do you use Austria, Czechslovakia or Czech Republic?  I have seen each of those used in research from other people and was just wondering if there is a "proper" method. 
                  >  
                  > I would lean toward using Austria since that was the country at the time that most of my ancestors were born.  But I can see the case for using Czech Republic since that is currently the name of the country and if someone was taking my research and looking on a map to find the villages, they would find them in the Czech Republic rather than in Austria.
                  >  
                  > Call me confused...LOL!  Just curious to know how everyone else records the place of birth.
                  >  
                  > Nancy Schmidt
                  >

                • Paula Foster
                  I have also found wrong birthdays and years in the 1900s, misspelled names, people listed as hired hands (but were actual) family members, wrong immigration
                  Message 8 of 20 , Feb 25 3:10 AM
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                    I have also found wrong birthdays and years in the 1900s, misspelled names, people listed as hired hands (but were actual) family members, wrong immigration years, and remember if the family was not there they may have went to a neighbor for the information.  I swear some of the census workers must have had a pivo or two on some of the information listed I have found.  The bottom line is you have to back-up what you get from the census with other resources.  paulasmaggie

                    --- On Wed, 2/24/10, FayeLee39@... <FayeLee39@...> wrote:

                    From: FayeLee39@... <FayeLee39@...>
                    Subject: Re: [TexasCzechs] Re: Austria, Czechoslovakia, or Czech Republic?
                    To: TexasCzechs@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 9:40 PM

                     

                    But the census takers would put down Bohemia, Moravia, Czech or Austria for anyone that came from that entire area.  And there methods changed from census to census.  So if they listed Moravia for a person, that person or family could well have been from Bohemia. US census takers most likely lived the area of census work.  If the area had many Czech's he or she would just group them all into Bohemia, or Moravian etc.  The census' are surely not very accurate for pin pointing a difference in the area we are talking about. 


                    Cullis Holub



                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: vmichna <vmichna@yahoo. com>
                    To: TexasCzechs@ yahoogroups. com
                    Sent: Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:27 pm
                    Subject: [TexasCzechs] Re: Austria, Czechoslovakia, or Czech Republic?

                     
                    The problem I found with that was that sometimes the place recorded was wrong. For example, you would know a person was from a village in Moravia, but another record would record Bohemia, for example.

                    Also, records aren't perfect, so there has to be compromises in this area. The fact is that not everyone knew where their family or relative was from and either they got it wrong or were unsure.

                    That is why I chose to be consitant across the board and go with historical accuaracy.

                    Valorie

                    --- In TexasCzechs@ yahoogroups. com, Buster Mitchell <bmit1313@.. .> wrote:
                    >
                    > How about putting what ever they claimed - Austrian Empire, Bohemia, Moravia, etc.. and then in parenthesis put what ever it is called now... just my opinion.
                    >
                    > buster
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ____________ _________ _________ __
                    > From: Robert and Nancy <rschmidt@.. .>
                    > To: TexasCzechs@ yahoogroups. com
                    > Sent: Tue, February 23, 2010 9:42:56 PM
                    > Subject: [TexasCzechs] Austria, Czechoslovakia, or Czech Republic?
                    >
                    >  
                    > When you record the place of birth of your ancestors, do you use Austria, Czechslovakia or Czech Republic?  I have seen each of those used in research from other people and was just wondering if there is a "proper" method. 
                    >  
                    > I would lean toward using Austria since that was the country at the time that most of my ancestors were born.  But I can see the case for using Czech Republic since that is currently the name of the country and if someone was taking my research and looking on a map to find the villages, they would find them in the Czech Republic rather than in Austria.
                    >  
                    > Call me confused...LOL!  Just curious to know how everyone else records the place of birth.
                    >  
                    > Nancy Schmidt
                    >

                  • Paula Foster
                    Yes, I agree with Matt list the name of the village and if possible the actual region the family came from.  How many researches have yall done, thought you
                    Message 9 of 20 , Feb 25 3:28 AM
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                      Yes, I agree with Matt list the name of the village and if possible the actual region the family came from.  How many researches have yall done, thought you were finished, and found out the family actually came from a different village and region especially if it that family had a common name say like ours Orsak and it was not the Orsak you spent weeks looking for.  That and the fact most of families used the same first name generation after generation to pay homage to a brother, grandfather, grandmother etc.  Also, after WWI the map changed so some regions that were there before the War no longer exit or have been absolved into other regions (Matt, hope I have this right, if not correct me please).  paulasmaggie

                      --- On Wed, 2/24/10, vmichna <vmichna@...> wrote:

                      From: vmichna <vmichna@...>
                      Subject: [TexasCzechs] Re: Austria, Czechoslovakia, or Czech Republic?
                      To: TexasCzechs@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 2:27 PM

                       

                      The problem I found with that was that sometimes the place recorded was wrong. For example, you would know a person was from a village in Moravia, but another record would record Bohemia, for example.

                      Also, records aren't perfect, so there has to be compromises in this area. The fact is that not everyone knew where their family or relative was from and either they got it wrong or were unsure.

                      That is why I chose to be consitant across the board and go with historical accuaracy.

                      Valorie

                      --- In TexasCzechs@ yahoogroups. com, Buster Mitchell <bmit1313@.. .> wrote:
                      >
                      > How about putting what ever they claimed - Austrian Empire, Bohemia, Moravia, etc.. and then in parenthesis put what ever it is called now... just my opinion.
                      >
                      > buster
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ____________ _________ _________ __
                      > From: Robert and Nancy <rschmidt@.. .>
                      > To: TexasCzechs@ yahoogroups. com
                      > Sent: Tue, February 23, 2010 9:42:56 PM
                      > Subject: [TexasCzechs] Austria, Czechoslovakia, or Czech Republic?
                      >
                      >  
                      > When you record the place of birth of your ancestors, do you use Austria, Czechslovakia or Czech Republic?  I have seen each of those used in research from other people and was just wondering if there is a "proper" method. 
                      >  
                      > I would lean toward using Austria since that was the country at the time that most of my ancestors were born.  But I can see the case for using Czech Republic since that is currently the name of the country and if someone was taking my research and looking on a map to find the villages, they would find them in the Czech Republic rather than in Austria.
                      >  
                      > Call me confused...LOL!  Just curious to know how everyone else records the place of birth.
                      >  
                      > Nancy Schmidt
                      >

                    • Robert and Nancy
                      Thanks everyone for the input! It helps to know how everyone else handles this. Nancy Schmidt ... From: Paula Foster To: TexasCzechs@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                      Message 10 of 20 , Feb 25 6:33 AM
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                        Thanks everyone for the input!  It helps to know how everyone else handles this.
                         
                        Nancy Schmidt
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 5:28 AM
                        Subject: Re: [TexasCzechs] Re: Austria, Czechoslovakia, or Czech Republic?

                        Yes, I agree with Matt list the name of the village and if possible the actual region the family came from.  How many researches have yall done, thought you were finished, and found out the family actually came from a different village and region especially if it that family had a common name say like ours Orsak and it was not the Orsak you spent weeks looking for.  That and the fact most of families used the same first name generation after generation to pay homage to a brother, grandfather, grandmother etc.  Also, after WWI the map changed so some regions that were there before the War no longer exit or have been absolved into other regions (Matt, hope I have this right, if not correct me please).  paulasmaggie

                        --- On Wed, 2/24/10, vmichna <vmichna@...> wrote:

                        From: vmichna <vmichna@...>
                        Subject: [TexasCzechs] Re: Austria, Czechoslovakia, or Czech Republic?
                        To: TexasCzechs@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 2:27 PM

                         

                        The problem I found with that was that sometimes the place recorded was wrong. For example, you would know a person was from a village in Moravia, but another record would record Bohemia, for example.

                        Also, records aren't perfect, so there has to be compromises in this area. The fact is that not everyone knew where their family or relative was from and either they got it wrong or were unsure.

                        That is why I chose to be consitant across the board and go with historical accuaracy.

                        Valorie

                        --- In TexasCzechs@ yahoogroups. com, Buster Mitchell <bmit1313@.. .> wrote:
                        >
                        > How about putting what ever they claimed - Austrian Empire, Bohemia, Moravia, etc.. and then in parenthesis put what ever it is called now... just my opinion.
                        >
                        > buster
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ____________ _________ _________ __
                        > From: Robert and Nancy <rschmidt@.. .>
                        > To: TexasCzechs@ yahoogroups. com
                        > Sent: Tue, February 23, 2010 9:42:56 PM
                        > Subject: [TexasCzechs] Austria, Czechoslovakia, or Czech Republic?
                        >
                        >  
                        > When you record the place of birth of your ancestors, do you use Austria, Czechslovakia or Czech Republic?  I have seen each of those used in research from other people and was just wondering if there is a "proper" method. 
                        >  
                        > I would lean toward using Austria since that was the country at the time that most of my ancestors were born.  But I can see the case for using Czech Republic since that is currently the name of the country and if someone was taking my research and looking on a map to find the villages, they would find them in the Czech Republic rather than in Austria.
                        >  
                        > Call me confused...LOL!  Just curious to know how everyone else records the place of birth.
                        >  
                        > Nancy Schmidt
                        >

                      • Danny Leshikar
                        Nancy, FYI: I know everyone has their own way of doing this, here is what I do. The entire area was under Austrian Rule, but the people were not Austrians. If
                        Message 11 of 20 , Feb 25 5:29 PM
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                          Nancy,
                           
                          FYI: I know everyone has their own way of doing this, here is what I do.
                           
                          The entire area was under Austrian Rule, but the people were not Austrians.
                           
                          If you know the village they came from, for Example:
                          Horni Cermna, Bohemia or Vsetin, Moravia.
                           
                          If you don't know the village but do know the region I use:
                          Bohemia or Moravia.
                           
                          If you don't know either, the generalization I use is: Czech lands.
                           
                          Using the term Czechoslovakia is actually inaccurate, unless they immigrated after 1918.
                           
                          The term Czech Republic is obviously only used for individuals presently living there.
                           
                           
                          Danny

                           

                          To: TexasCzechs@yahoogroups.com
                          From: rschmidt@...
                          Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:33:07 -0600
                          Subject: Re: [TexasCzechs] Re: Austria, Czechoslovakia, or Czech Republic?

                           
                          
                          Thanks everyone for the input!  It helps to know how everyone else handles this.
                           
                          Nancy Schmidt
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 5:28 AM
                          Subject: Re: [TexasCzechs] Re: Austria, Czechoslovakia, or Czech Republic?

                          Yes, I agree with Matt list the name of the village and if possible the actual region the family came from.  How many researches have yall done, thought you were finished, and found out the family actually came from a different village and region especially if it that family had a common name say like ours Orsak and it was not the Orsak you spent weeks looking for.  That and the fact most of families used the same first name generation after generation to pay homage to a brother, grandfather, grandmother etc.  Also, after WWI the map changed so some regions that were there before the War no longer exit or have been absolved into other regions (Matt, hope I have this right, if not correct me please).  paulasmaggie

                          --- On Wed, 2/24/10, vmichna <vmichna@yahoo. com> wrote:

                          From: vmichna <vmichna@yahoo. com>
                          Subject: [TexasCzechs] Re: Austria, Czechoslovakia, or Czech Republic?
                          To: TexasCzechs@ yahoogroups. com
                          Date: Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 2:27 PM

                           

                          The problem I found with that was that sometimes the place recorded was wrong. For example, you would know a person was from a village in Moravia, but another record would record Bohemia, for example.

                          Also, records aren't perfect, so there has to be compromises in this area. The fact is that not everyone knew where their family or relative was from and either they got it wrong or were unsure.

                          That is why I chose to be consitant across the board and go with historical accuaracy.

                          Valorie

                          --- In TexasCzechs@ yahoogroups. com, Buster Mitchell <bmit1313@.. .> wrote:
                          >
                          > How about putting what ever they claimed - Austrian Empire, Bohemia, Moravia, etc.. and then in parenthesis put what ever it is called now... just my opinion.
                          >
                          > buster
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ____________ _________ _________ __
                          > From: Robert and Nancy <rschmidt@.. .>
                          > To: TexasCzechs@ yahoogroups. com
                          > Sent: Tue, February 23, 2010 9:42:56 PM
                          > Subject: [TexasCzechs] Austria, Czechoslovakia, or Czech Republic?
                          >
                          >  
                          > When you record the place of birth of your ancestors, do you use Austria, Czechslovakia or Czech Republic?  I have seen each of those used in research from other people and was just wondering if there is a "proper" method. 
                          >  
                          > I would lean toward using Austria since that was the country at the time that most of my ancestors were born.  But I can see the case for using Czech Republic since that is currently the name of the country and if someone was taking my research and looking on a map to find the villages, they would find them in the Czech Republic rather than in Austria.
                          >  
                          > Call me confused...LOL!  Just curious to know how everyone else records the place of birth.
                          >  
                          > Nancy Schmidt
                          >





                          Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. Get it now.
                        • Laura
                          Allow me to throw one more log on the fire: :-) I always record the village name, followed by either Moravia (or Bohemia, when I know this), followed by the
                          Message 12 of 20 , Feb 26 1:42 PM
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                            Allow me to throw one more log on the fire: :-)

                            I always record the village name, followed by either Moravia (or Bohemia, when I know this), followed by the words Empire of Austria-Hungary, if they were born or lived there before 1918. If I don't know any other facts, I just put Empire of Austria-Hungary.

                            Lolly Petter Pilgrim
                            Houston, TX

                            --- In TexasCzechs@yahoogroups.com, "Robert and Nancy" <rschmidt@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > When you record the place of birth of your ancestors, do you use Austria, Czechslovakia or Czech Republic? I have seen each of those used in research from other people and was just wondering if there is a "proper" method.
                            >
                            > I would lean toward using Austria since that was the country at the time that most of my ancestors were born. But I can see the case for using Czech Republic since that is currently the name of the country and if someone was taking my research and looking on a map to find the villages, they would find them in the Czech Republic rather than in Austria.
                            >
                            > Call me confused...LOL! Just curious to know how everyone else records the place of birth.
                            >
                            > Nancy Schmidt
                            >
                          • Mike
                            Nancy, Thinking much like Danny Lesikar (a probable cousin), here are examples of what I usually tell someone: For my Hejl great-great-grandparents, I say that
                            Message 13 of 20 , Feb 26 5:56 PM
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                              Nancy,

                              Thinking much like Danny Lesikar (a probable cousin), here are examples of what I usually tell someone:

                              For my Hejl great-great-grandparents, I say that they immigrated from the village of Horni Cermna in Bohemia (Cechy) in what is now the Czech Republic.  For my Blaha great-grandparents, I say that they immigrated from the village of Hovezi (now Huslenky) in Moravia (Morava) in what is now the Czech Republic.  As an addendum, I sometimes point-out that both Bohemia and Moravia were part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire when my ancestors immigrated.  In spite of this fact, I strongly suspect that my immigrant ancestors would have been highly offended at being called Austrians, even though they were (mostly unwilling) subjects of the Emperor of Austria-Hungary.  That's not to say, for example, that my great-grandfather Josef Blaha didn't have to fore swear allegiance to Emperor (and King of Bohemia) Franz Josef in 1891 when he became a citizen of the United States of America. 

                              I never initially say that my ancestors immigrated from Austria, for that would obscure and come close to denigrating their true Bohemian or Moravian ethnicity.  I never say that any of my ancestors immigrated from Czechoslovakia, which would be historically incorrect because all of them immigrated before 1918 when Czechoslovakia was formed.  For the same reason, I never say that my ancestors immigrated from the Czech Republic, which was not formed until 1993.  The key question that must be answered by genealogical researchers is what was the situation when their ancestors were alive?  That's the starting point, not what was temporarily controlling their lives at that time or what has happened since that time period.  

                              One thing I continue to encounter is a lack of adequate knowledge of the history and geography of the Czech lands (a good term used by Danny Lesikar) by almost all of my non-Czech-descended friends and acquaintances and even some of my Czech-descended friends and acquaintances.  It gets pretty frustrating trying to explain my Bohemian and Moravian ancestry and the history and geography of the Czech lands to these kinds of individuals, so I usually just give-up.

                              My suggestion to all individuals researching their Bohemian and/or Moravian ancestry is to first become familiar with the history and geography of the Czech lands.  This can be done fairly easily by using on-line resources such as Wikipedia and Mapy.cz.  This will take time and patience.  Also, pay particular attention to how your Czech ancestors spelled and pronounced their own names and places of origin during their lifetimes.   Resist changing such things believing that you are doing a later generation a favor so that they can better understand and pronounce them.  As it was, too much of this sort of thing was inflicted by immigration officials (Austrian, German, and American) and/or was almost forced upon the newly-arrived immigrants to be accepted into the existing American culture.  I'm not suggesting that you alter the current spelling or pronunciation of your own Czech surname to match your ancestor's, but you need to know the differences and to be especially proud of your Czech heritage. :)

                              Mike Hejl

                              Hejl-Šilar  Dušek-Kotrla  Blaha-Kotrla  Hejtmančik-Batla



                              --- In TexasCzechs@yahoogroups.com, "Robert and Nancy" <rschmidt@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > When you record the place of birth of your ancestors, do you use Austria, Czechslovakia or Czech Republic? I have seen each of those used in research from other people and was just wondering if there is a "proper" method.
                              >
                              > I would lean toward using Austria since that was the country at the time that most of my ancestors were born. But I can see the case for using Czech Republic since that is currently the name of the country and if someone was taking my research and looking on a map to find the villages, they would find them in the Czech Republic rather than in Austria.
                              >
                              > Call me confused...LOL! Just curious to know how everyone else records the place of birth.
                              >
                              > Nancy Schmidt
                              >
                            • jamesermis@aol.com
                              Way to go Mike, you covered it like a blanket, not much room from error after your very accurate response.
                              Message 14 of 20 , Feb 27 8:19 PM
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                                Way to go Mike, you covered it like a blanket, not much room from error after your very accurate response.
                              • Mike
                                James - I appreciate the compliment; however, I later realized that I left out something that Albert Blaha and Edmond Hejl stressed many years ago. That is
                                Message 15 of 20 , Feb 28 10:57 AM
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                                  James - I appreciate the compliment; however, I later realized that I
                                  left out something that Albert Blaha and Edmond Hejl stressed many years
                                  ago. That is the need to establish the "Village of Origin" of your
                                  Czech immigrant ancestors. Without that, it is almost impossible to
                                  find information in archives in the Czech Republic. I realize that some
                                  beginning researchers only know from immigration records, ship
                                  manifests, or other records that their Czech ancestor immigrated from
                                  "Austria," or Bohemia, or Moravia, etc. I would recommend that
                                  researchers search for the exact village of origin in old family
                                  documents such as Bibles and baptismal certificates, in family
                                  histories, in obituaries, in church ministerial records, etc. Also,
                                  visit the cemetery where the ancestor is buried (if you know where the
                                  person was buried). It's been my experience that many of the tombstones
                                  of Czech immigrants buried in Texas are inscribed with the immigrant's
                                  village of origin, and that the inscription is often in the Czech
                                  language with the proper diacritical marks. Go equipped with some
                                  knowledge of common Czech words used as tombstone inscriptions or find
                                  someone that can translate the words. I think that the tombstone
                                  inscriptions are prone to be very accurate, perhaps just as accurate as
                                  records of a Czech-speaking minister.

                                  Albert Blaha and Edmond Hejl used the term "Village of Origin" because
                                  the vast majority of the Czech immigrants to Texas immigrated from
                                  villages in Bohemia and Moravia. Yes, they knew that some immigrants
                                  came from "towns" such as Vsetin in Moravia, but decided to use the
                                  "Village of Origin" term as all-encompassing. Also, a few people have
                                  have made disparaging remarks about Albert and Edmond's use of circles
                                  to indicate the primary areas where the immigrants came from. These
                                  circles were intended to be diagrammatic; that is, they were constructed
                                  so as to encompass the majority of the villages of origins of our
                                  immigrant ancestors based on their somewhat limited data base developed
                                  well over 20 years ago. Yes, they realized that some villages of origin
                                  do not fall within the circles (and additional villages of origin have
                                  been discovered since their pioneering research).

                                  Mike Hejl


                                  --- In TexasCzechs@yahoogroups.com, jamesermis@... wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Way to go Mike, you covered it like a blanket, not much room from
                                  error
                                  > after your very accurate response.
                                  >
                                • jamesermis@aol.com
                                  Mike, Are you relate to Milady?
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Feb 28 8:43 PM
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                                    Mike,
                                    Are you relate to Milady?
                                  • Mike
                                    James - Yes, Milady Blaha Hejl is my mother. On April 21st, she will celebrate her 97th birthday. Milady resides in an assisted living facility in Keene,
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Mar 1, 2010
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                                      James - Yes, Milady Blaha Hejl is my mother. On April 21st, she will celebrate her 97th birthday. Milady resides in an assisted living facility in Keene, Texas near her daughter Susan's home in Cleburne. As you probably know, Milady is the the elder sister of Albert J. Blaha (CHS founder) and is the only Lifetime Honorary Trustee of the CHS. Milady's much younger sister Jean Blaha Davis recently served four years as CHS President.

                                      Although Milady is wheelchair-bound and has memory problems, her health is very good considering her age. She is the only living person that had remembrances of her immigrant Blaha and Hejtmancik grandparents

                                      Mike Hejl


                                      --- In TexasCzechs@yahoogroups.com, jamesermis@... wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Mike,
                                      > Are you relate to Milady?
                                      >
                                    • jamesermis@aol.com
                                      Mike, Thanks for the reply. I have met your MOM on several ocassions while I was Treasurer for CHS under Anna Krpec tenure as Pres. I am glad to hear she is
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Mar 2, 2010
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                                        Mike,
                                        Thanks for the reply. I have met your MOM on several ocassions while I was Treasurer for CHS under Anna Krpec tenure as Pres.
                                         
                                        I am glad to hear she is still with us, you are very lucky.  My cousin Melvin Post was a good friend of Albert's and worked with them ot get CHS started. 
                                        I thought Jean was still Pres.  Who is now?
                                      • Cindy Neal
                                        Phyllis Tykel is the new president. ... From: jamesermis@aol.com To: TexasCzechs@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:16 PM Subject: Re:
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Mar 2, 2010
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                                          Phyllis Tykel is the new president.
                                           
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:16 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [TexasCzechs] Re: Austria, Czechoslovakia, or Czech Republic?

                                           

                                          Mike,
                                          Thanks for the reply. I have met your MOM on several ocassions while I was Treasurer for CHS under Anna Krpec tenure as Pres.
                                           
                                          I am glad to hear she is still with us, you are very lucky.  My cousin Melvin Post was a good friend of Albert's and worked with them ot get CHS started. 
                                          I thought Jean was still Pres.  Who is now?



                                          No virus found in this incoming message.
                                          Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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                                        • George Patrick
                                          Morning Cindy, Just a note to put your address in my address book for my new computer. Have a good day. George ... From: Cindy Neal To:
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Mar 3, 2010
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                                            Morning Cindy,
                                            Just a note to put your address in my address book for my new computer.  Have a good day.
                                             
                                            George
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 10:44 PM
                                            Subject: [TexasCzechs] CHS President

                                             

                                            Phyllis Tykel is the new president.
                                             
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:16 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [TexasCzechs] Re: Austria, Czechoslovakia, or Czech Republic?

                                             

                                            Mike,
                                            Thanks for the reply. I have met your MOM on several ocassions while I was Treasurer for CHS under Anna Krpec tenure as Pres.
                                             
                                            I am glad to hear she is still with us, you are very lucky.  My cousin Melvin Post was a good friend of Albert's and worked with them ot get CHS started. 
                                            I thought Jean was still Pres.  Who is now?



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                                            Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2719 - Release Date: 03/02/10 13:34:00

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