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Graves and Headstones

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  • MommaSpag@aol.com
    I am not so sure about this country...my grandpa Dusek bought a number of grave sities in Dardanelle, AR when his mother died in 1929. He and grandma Dusek
    Message 1 of 9 , Jan 1, 2008
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      I am not so sure about this country...my grandpa Dusek bought a number of grave sities in Dardanelle, AR when his mother died in 1929.  He and grandma Dusek as well as great-grandma Betlach are buried there   and my living 87 year old mom was left some sort of ambiguous deed. We have figured out that at least six or eight graves sites are available but not identifiable by plot numbers.  This Bohemian cemetery has graves going back to before 1875.
       
      This is the bizarre thing.  I visited Petrovice and Cermna in 2005.  My great-great grandmother and her oldest son died in a fire in Petrovice on July 24, 1874.  I so much wanted to pay my respects...I wrote the current priest at St. Jiri's before my visit to see if I could find her their graves.  He did graciously write back that the cemetery had been "renovated" several times since then and their graves were no longer there.  When I actually did visit the cemetery, I saw how small it was to have accommodated centuries of burials...but do wonder where the headstones went.
       
      Frances



    • Bea Rost
      I have not been following very closely the emails that have been going back and forth. BUT, in present day northern Germany where some of my relatives came
      Message 2 of 9 , Jan 2, 2008
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        I have not been following very closely the emails that have been going back and forth.

        BUT, in present day northern Germany where some of my relatives came from and where I still go back to sometime to visit relatives, the graves are "current" for 20 years and then available to resale back to the original owner or to a new owner to use for burial.  The previous family owns the headstone thus they can take them to their home/garden and I do see in the family's gardens these headstones.   If they do not want them the department of highways/roads will accept them and grind them up to use as roadbase.

        Bea


        On Jan 1, 2008, at 7:19 PM, MommaSpag@... wrote:

        I am not so sure about this country...my grandpa Dusek bought a number of grave sities in Dardanelle, AR when his mother died in 1929.  He and grandma Dusek as well as great-grandma Betlach are buried there   and my living 87 year old mom was left some sort of ambiguous deed. We have figured out that at least six or eight graves sites are available but not identifiable by plot numbers.  This Bohemian cemetery has graves going back to before 1875.
         
        This is the bizarre thing.  I visited Petrovice and Cermna in 2005.  My great-great grandmother and her oldest son died in a fire in Petrovice on July 24, 1874.  I so much wanted to pay my respects...I wrote the current priest at St. Jiri's before my visit to see if I could find her their graves.  He did graciously write back that the cemetery had been "renovated" several times since then and their graves were no longer there.  When I actually did visit the cemetery, I saw how small it was to have accommodated centuries of burials...but do wonder where the headstones went.
         
        Frances





      • charles kretzschmar
        dear bea--- i have questions on the graves. do you buy or rent the grave space? if you rent it--is it for 20 years only and some one has to renew the lease
        Message 3 of 9 , Jan 3, 2008
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          dear bea---
           
          i have questions on the graves. 
          do you "buy" or "rent" the grave space?
          if you rent it--is it for 20 years only and
          some one has to renew the lease for
          another 20 years?  how do they get
          more bodies in these used graves?
          do they use wood coffins only?
           
          only one time in the united states i
          heard from a priest that they plan to
          "rent" the grave space.  but it has not
          occurred.  the spaces are still free.
           
          angelina genzer kretzschmar


          Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
        • Bea Rost
          Angelina, I do not know the legal specifics of burials in Germany. BUT having visited there with family over the years I do know that at the end of a specific
          Message 4 of 9 , Jan 3, 2008
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            Angelina,

            I do not know the legal specifics of burials in Germany.

            BUT having visited there with family over the years I do know that at the end of a specific number of years, generally 20 years, the status of a burial site is such that you must procure it again if you wish to retain it.  I do not know how you legally become in possession of a burial plot.

            My cousin Ursel's family has owned a plot for four burials for many years.  Her parents and the generations before them are buried in that plot and in 2004 Ursel's husband, Died, died and was also buried in that family plot.   

            An elderly aunt of mine, and this is also in Delmenhorst, Germany, lived to be a 100 and wanted to be buried next to her husband.  Unbeknownst to her in her last years is that her children had not re-purchased their family's burial site, had let their father's headstone go for road base, and her burial wishes could not and were not carried out according to her wishes.

            We were told that bodies are buried on top of previously buried bodies.  I do remember being told that taking into consideration the climate and soil conditions in that country the bodies have essentially returned to dust and the site is ready to receive another body.

            This certainly causes bad feelings and understandably so.  BUT when you are looking for the burial plots of your ancestors keep in mind where they lived and how many cemeteries are in that area.  Refer back to paragraph three above....the family plot has a large stone marker with the name of Ursel's family on it.  Died is buried there but his family name is not the same as that of his father-in-law which is the name that shows on the big marker.   Died has but a small plaque at the his burial site.  It helps to keep in mind the family history and thus one can possibly determine where your family is buried but you might not find their name there. 

            Having said that, my husband's family lived for many years in a very small community in Germany named Wellingerode.   We found his family's history in the church in that community but the cemetery there revealed nothing but one had to assume that my husband's relatives are buried there.

            I have been to a funeral in Germany and yes, that coffin was wooden.  I don't remember ever having asked about the requirements regarding the coffin.  I know that pallbearers are not chosen by the family.   The funeral parlor provides "professional"  pallbearers.   And so customs do differ!

            Bea 

            On Jan 3, 2008, at 1:44 PM, charles kretzschmar wrote:


            dear bea---
             
            i have questions on the graves. 
            do you "buy" or "rent" the grave space?
            if you rent it--is it for 20 years only and
            some one has to renew the lease for
            another 20 years?  how do they get
            more bodies in these used graves?
            do they use wood coffins only?
             
            only one time in the united states i
            heard from a priest that they plan to
            "rent" the grave space.  but it has not
            occurred.  the spaces are still free.
             
            angelina genzer kretzschmar


            Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.


          • pfoster
            I am also curious, if you bought the plot, can they still move someone without the family knowing or can they put another casket in the same grave without the
            Message 5 of 9 , Jan 3, 2008
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              I am also curious, if you bought the plot, can they still move someone without the family knowing or can they put another casket in the same grave without the family permission.  Quite frankly I never heard of renting a plot.  paulasmaggie
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 1:44 PM
              Subject: [TexasCzechs] Re: Graves and Headstones

              dear bea---
               
              i have questions on the graves. 
              do you "buy" or "rent" the grave space?
              if you rent it--is it for 20 years only and
              some one has to renew the lease for
              another 20 years?  how do they get
              more bodies in these used graves?
              do they use wood coffins only?
               
              only one time in the united states i
              heard from a priest that they plan to
              "rent" the grave space.  but it has not
              occurred.  the spaces are still free.
               
              angelina genzer kretzschmar


              Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.


              No virus found in this incoming message.
              Checked by AVG Free Edition.
              Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008 11:29 AM
            • Bea Rost
              Please note, you all, that I am responding to these questions with the info I have gathered as a visitor there. I really am hoping that someone who really
              Message 6 of 9 , Jan 3, 2008
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                Please note, you all, that I am responding to these questions with the info I have gathered as a visitor there.   I really am hoping that someone who "really" knows all the answers gives us some input.   Surely there is someone who was born in Europe that really knows all the answers to the questions being asked.   Let us hear from you.   Bea
                On Jan 3, 2008, at 3:45 PM, pfoster wrote:


                I am also curious, if you bought the plot, can they still move someone without the family knowing or can they put another casket in the same grave without the family permission.  Quite frankly I never heard of renting a plot.  paulasmaggie
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 1:44 PM
                Subject: [TexasCzechs] Re: Graves and Headstones


                dear bea---
                 
                i have questions on the graves. 
                do you "buy" or "rent" the grave space?
                if you rent it--is it for 20 years only and
                some one has to renew the lease for
                another 20 years?  how do they get
                more bodies in these used graves?
                do they use wood coffins only?
                 
                only one time in the united states i
                heard from a priest that they plan to
                "rent" the grave space.  but it has not
                occurred.  the spaces are still free.
                 
                angelina genzer kretzschmar


                Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.




                No virus found in this incoming message.
                Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008 11:29 AM


              • hankn34
                I returned from a visit to the Czech Republic in August visiting my Czech cousins. They told me that families reuse the family grave plots over and over. For
                Message 7 of 9 , Jan 3, 2008
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                  I returned from a visit to the Czech Republic in August visiting my
                  Czech cousins. They told me that families reuse the family grave plots
                  over and over. For example, I wanted to see where my great
                  grandparents were buried. They showed me the family plot but the
                  tombstone was new as a son (my great uncle)and his wife and their son
                  were buried in the same spot. My cousin told me that the undecayed
                  bones of my great grandparents and any other bones from their parents
                  if there were undecayed were neatly bundled and placed along side the
                  new burial. For the life of me I never did ask what the family did
                  with the old tombstones.

                  If there were no family members left, then the plot was resold. This
                  is what happened to my paternal great great grandfather's grave. As
                  after he died great great grandmother and all her children emigrated
                  to the Fayette County. No church record exists to even identify the
                  grave site.

                  Hank Naizer


                  --- In TexasCzechs@yahoogroups.com, Bea Rost <danbea@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Please note, you all, that I am responding to these questions with
                  > the info I have gathered as a visitor there. I really am hoping
                  > that someone who "really" knows all the answers gives us some
                  > input. Surely there is someone who was born in Europe that really
                  > knows all the answers to the questions being asked. Let us hear
                  > from you. Bea
                  > On Jan 3, 2008, at 3:45 PM, pfoster wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  > > I am also curious, if you bought the plot, can they still move
                  > > someone without the family knowing or can they put another casket
                  > > in the same grave without the family permission. Quite frankly I
                  > > never heard of renting a plot. paulasmaggie
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: charles kretzschmar
                  > > To: TexasCzechs@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 1:44 PM
                  > > Subject: [TexasCzechs] Re: Graves and Headstones
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > dear bea---
                  > >
                  > > i have questions on the graves.
                  > > do you "buy" or "rent" the grave space?
                  > > if you rent it--is it for 20 years only and
                  > > some one has to renew the lease for
                  > > another 20 years? how do they get
                  > > more bodies in these used graves?
                  > > do they use wood coffins only?
                  > >
                  > > only one time in the united states i
                  > > heard from a priest that they plan to
                  > > "rent" the grave space. but it has not
                  > > occurred. the spaces are still free.
                  > >
                  > > angelina genzer kretzschmar
                  > >
                  > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo!
                  > > Search.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                  > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                  > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date:
                  > > 1/2/2008 11:29 AM
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Julie Matus
                  Wow, that is interesting! I never knew that. Here the cemetery plots are quite expensive and by the time you put the casket and all the burial fees, that is
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jan 3, 2008
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                    Wow, that is interesting!  I never knew that.  Here the cemetery plots are quite expensive and by the time you put the casket and all the burial fees, that is really a very expensive tiny piece of land.  We were shocked at how much it all cost even back in '92 when we buried our 14 year old son outside Tomball.  I can only imagine it's all much more now.
                     
                    Julie

                    Julie & Wes Matus
                     
                    Researching:
                    Herzik, Korenek, Toman, Dybala
                    Matus, Kubala, Grossman, Krenek
                     
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: hankn34
                    Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 5:03 PM
                    Subject: [TexasCzechs] Re: Graves and Headstones

                    I returned from a visit to the Czech Republic in August visiting my
                    Czech cousins. They told me that families reuse the family grave plots
                    over and over. For example, I wanted to see where my great
                    grandparents were buried. They showed me the family plot but the
                    tombstone was new as a son (my great uncle)and his wife and their son
                    were buried in the same spot. My cousin told me that the undecayed
                    bones of my great grandparents and any other bones from their parents
                    if there were undecayed were neatly bundled and placed along side the
                    new burial. For the life of me I never did ask what the family did
                    with the old tombstones.

                    If there were no family members left, then the plot was resold. This
                    is what happened to my paternal great great grandfather' s grave. As
                    after he died great great grandmother and all her children emigrated
                    to the Fayette County. No church record exists to even identify the
                    grave site.

                    Hank Naizer

                    --- In TexasCzechs@ yahoogroups. com, Bea Rost <danbea@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Please note, you all, that I am responding to these questions with
                    > the info I have gathered as a visitor there. I really am hoping
                    > that someone who "really" knows all the answers gives us some
                    > input. Surely there is someone who was born in Europe that really
                    > knows all the answers to the questions being asked. Let us hear
                    > from you. Bea
                    > On Jan 3, 2008, at 3:45 PM, pfoster wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    > > I am also curious, if you bought the plot, can they still move
                    > > someone without the family knowing or can they put another casket
                    > > in the same grave without the family permission. Quite frankly I
                    > > never heard of renting a plot. paulasmaggie
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: charles kretzschmar
                    > > To: TexasCzechs@ yahoogroups. com
                    > > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 1:44 PM
                    > > Subject: [TexasCzechs] Re: Graves and Headstones
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > dear bea---
                    > >
                    > > i have questions on the graves.
                    > > do you "buy" or "rent" the grave space?
                    > > if you rent it--is it for 20 years only and
                    > > some one has to renew the lease for
                    > > another 20 years? how do they get
                    > > more bodies in these used graves?
                    > > do they use wood coffins only?
                    > >
                    > > only one time in the united states i
                    > > heard from a priest that they plan to
                    > > "rent" the grave space. but it has not
                    > > occurred. the spaces are still free.
                    > >
                    > > angelina genzer kretzschmar
                    > >
                    > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo!
                    > > Search.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                    > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                    > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date:
                    > > 1/2/2008 11:29 AM
                    > >
                    > >
                    >


                    No virus found in this incoming message.
                    Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                    Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1208 - Release Date: 1/3/2008 3:52 PM
                  • Bea Rost
                    Julie, The cost...I was last in Germany in September of 2006 and at that time I did talk price comparison on just basic funeral costs. My Dan died in Dec 2005
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jan 3, 2008
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                      Julie,

                      The cost...I was last in Germany in September of 2006 and at that time I did talk price comparison on just basic funeral costs.  My Dan died in Dec 2005 and the person I was speaking with also had a recent loss in the family.  On the basics of the funeral the pricing was very comparable ..   Bea
                      On Jan 3, 2008, at 6:58 PM, Julie Matus wrote:


                      Wow, that is interesting!  I never knew that.  Here the cemetery plots are quite expensive and by the time you put the casket and all the burial fees, that is really a very expensive tiny piece of land.  We were shocked at how much it all cost even back in '92 when we buried our 14 year old son outside Tomball.  I can only imagine it's all much more now.
                       
                      Julie

                      Julie & Wes Matus
                       
                      Researching:
                      Herzik, Korenek, Toman, Dybala
                      Matus, Kubala, Grossman, Krenek
                       
                       
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: hankn34
                      Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 5:03 PM
                      Subject: [TexasCzechs] Re: Graves and Headstones

                      I returned from a visit to the Czech Republic in August visiting my
                      Czech cousins. They told me that families reuse the family grave plots
                      over and over. For example, I wanted to see where my great
                      grandparents were buried. They showed me the family plot but the
                      tombstone was new as a son (my great uncle)and his wife and their son
                      were buried in the same spot. My cousin told me that the undecayed
                      bones of my great grandparents and any other bones from their parents
                      if there were undecayed were neatly bundled and placed along side the
                      new burial. For the life of me I never did ask what the family did
                      with the old tombstones.

                      If there were no family members left, then the plot was resold. This
                      is what happened to my paternal great great grandfather's grave. As
                      after he died great great grandmother and all her children emigrated
                      to the Fayette County. No church record exists to even identify the
                      grave site.

                      Hank Naizer

                      --- In TexasCzechs@yahoogroups.com, Bea Rost <danbea@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Please note, you all, that I am responding to these questions with
                      > the info I have gathered as a visitor there. I really am hoping
                      > that someone who "really" knows all the answers gives us some
                      > input. Surely there is someone who was born in Europe that really
                      > knows all the answers to the questions being asked. Let us hear
                      > from you. Bea
                      > On Jan 3, 2008, at 3:45 PM, pfoster wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      > > I am also curious, if you bought the plot, can they still move
                      > > someone without the family knowing or can they put another casket
                      > > in the same grave without the family permission. Quite frankly I
                      > > never heard of renting a plot. paulasmaggie
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: charles kretzschmar
                      > > To: TexasCzechs@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 1:44 PM
                      > > Subject: [TexasCzechs] Re: Graves and Headstones
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > dear bea---
                      > >
                      > > i have questions on the graves.
                      > > do you "buy" or "rent" the grave space?
                      > > if you rent it--is it for 20 years only and
                      > > some one has to renew the lease for
                      > > another 20 years? how do they get
                      > > more bodies in these used graves?
                      > > do they use wood coffins only?
                      > >
                      > > only one time in the united states i
                      > > heard from a priest that they plan to
                      > > "rent" the grave space. but it has not
                      > > occurred. the spaces are still free.
                      > >
                      > > angelina genzer kretzschmar
                      > >
                      > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo!
                      > > Search.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                      > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                      > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date:
                      > > 1/2/2008 11:29 AM
                      > >
                      > >
                      >




                      No virus found in this incoming message.
                      Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                      Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1208 - Release Date: 1/3/2008 3:52 PM


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