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Re: [TeslaTurbine] Digest Number 227

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  • neil mackay
    Mike, The CD S will be hard to drill accurately as the drill bit will garb on the plastic plus also the height of the angle on the drill will greater than
    Message 1 of 4 , Jan 5, 1988
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      Mike,
      The CD'S will be hard to drill accurately as the drill bit will garb
      on the plastic plus also the height of the angle on the drill will greater
      than the thickness of the CD. If you clamp all of them to gether real firm
      [ watch out they crack] between two plates ie 2-3mm thick aluminium and
      use the plates as a drill guide. Try "backing off the drill" so as to stop
      the grab.

      Tesla mentioned that the rivets will give additional "lift " on start up
      and this is my experience so far as well. They will also support the discs.
      On my stack I used 3mm nylon washers fro spacers. Nylon because they are
      cheap [ about $1 per 50] but also very light, metal washers would have
      added more weight than the actual stack it self [ my power source is low]
      If you are using compressed air for motivation, try brass or bronze bushing
      drill it and ream it for accuracy, you will have to drill a small hole on
      top of the bush to for oil, something light weight like sowing machine oil.
      If you make the bush with a thick wall you can counter bore the oil slightly
      larger to act as a reservoir.

      Also consider plastic, glass fibre filled teflon would be excellent,
      although I have achieved reasonable results with PVC and water as the
      lubricant. It will work fine you just have to keep the water up to the
      bearing to reduce any heat build up, other wise stand back , the melt down
      can be spectacular but only from a distance.
      PVC and brass, bronze not very expensive and very easy to work with. The
      catch is they are long term ideas but they will get you up and running for a
      very reasonable price.
      I also found the discs are thin/flexible, then bring the air inlet closer to
      90 degrees to the centre, mine is about 100 degrees at present and to seems
      to work ok. My stack is made from 2mm aluminium end plates and 1mm PVC discs
      with perimeter rivets. On air testing the sudden burst of air would push
      the PVC all over but settled down as the TT got going, still though I needed
      the rivets, very few in the centre and the majority on the perimeter.

      Hope this is of some help.
      Neil
    • Sean Payne
      As far as bearings for a model goes, I used a set of bearings made for a router bit. They re available in the hardware store, possibly made by
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 28, 2002
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        As far as bearings for a model goes, I used a set of bearings made for a
        router bit. They're available in the hardware store, possibly made by
        Vermont-American (they also make drill bits), and they aren't too expensive.
        Plus, they're made to spin at high speeds, which they seem to do with ease
        in my own CD-TT.

        Sean Payne

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com>
        To: <TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 6:25 AM
        Subject: [TeslaTurbine] Digest Number 227


        > There is 1 message in this issue.
        >
        > Topics in this digest:
        >
        > 1. my first
        > From: Mike Passerotti <mpasserotti@...>
        >
        >
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >
        > Message: 1
        > Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:14:46 -0500
        > From: Mike Passerotti <mpasserotti@...>
        > Subject: my first
        >
        > I made my first runner this week. I made it out of CDs. Spacers between
        > disks are hubs cut from other CDs. I mounted a piece of 1/2" cpvc pipe in
        a
        > drill press and sanded it down so it would fit inside the CD center. That
        > was the first bad idea. To mount the cpvc in the chuck I had to put a
        dowel
        > rod in the cpvc, which didn't fit right. So I had to mount the dowel rod
        in
        > the drill press and sand it down a little. Then the cpvc slipped onto the
        > dowel rod so I could sand down the cpvc. I had some trouble with wobble
        but
        > the cpvc seemed to do well enough. I cut pvc schedule 40 to press the
        > runner layers together, which is a bad idea because the cpvc was sanded
        down
        > too small to make a tight fit with the pvc. And the pvc cut wasn't
        square.
        > I glued the disk pack to the cpvc with super glue (CA) and the pvc pressed
        > onto the ends glued with super glue also. All seemed to be pretty usable
        so
        > I mounted the dowel rod in the drill press in order to cut it down for the
        > ID on the bearings. Bad idea. The dowel was too soft and wobled. So I
        > have a wobly, unusable, piece of junk, learned much from it, disk pack on
        my
        > desk for discussion with my coworkers.
        >
        > I know whats already published and all the examples given from this list.
        I
        > have limited resources and limited funding so I'm having to make do. I
        > really believe I can build a runner out of CDs so I'll keep going.
        >
        > #1 Gotta have a lathe to cut the shaft. I have a friend with one so I'll
        be
        > going over there soon.
        >
        > #2 If you build it, you will know more than all you can read about it.
        >
        > I plan on using roller blade ball bearings. They won't likely last long.
        >
        > When blowing air between the disks on the runner, will disk spreading
        become
        > a problem? Should I put pins and washers like Tesla's orginal design?
        >
        > Mike Passerotti
        >
        >
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
      • Mike Passerotti
        I investigated the router bearings. They out priced me for the time. I m extremely low budget. My main question is: Does the CD-TT require rivets and
        Message 3 of 4 , Feb 28, 2002
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          I investigated the router bearings. They out priced me for the time. I'm
          extremely low budget.

          My main question is: Does the CD-TT require rivets and washers along the
          outer rim? I believe they do because a preliminary test with an air hose
          using only 80 psi made major disk warping. I intend to use 120 psi on the
          disks reguarly.

          Mike Passerotti


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Sean Payne [mailto:ultimas@...]
          Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 10:25 AM
          To: TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [TeslaTurbine] Digest Number 227


          As far as bearings for a model goes, I used a set of bearings made for a
          router bit. They're available in the hardware store, possibly made by
          Vermont-American (they also make drill bits), and they aren't too expensive.
          Plus, they're made to spin at high speeds, which they seem to do with ease
          in my own CD-TT.

          Sean Payne

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: <TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com>
          To: <TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 6:25 AM
          Subject: [TeslaTurbine] Digest Number 227


          > There is 1 message in this issue.
          >
          > Topics in this digest:
          >
          > 1. my first
          > From: Mike Passerotti <mpasserotti@...>
          >
          >
          > ________________________________________________________________________
          > ________________________________________________________________________
          >
          > Message: 1
          > Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:14:46 -0500
          > From: Mike Passerotti <mpasserotti@...>
          > Subject: my first
          >
          > I made my first runner this week. I made it out of CDs. Spacers between
          > disks are hubs cut from other CDs. I mounted a piece of 1/2" cpvc pipe in
          a
          > drill press and sanded it down so it would fit inside the CD center. That
          > was the first bad idea. To mount the cpvc in the chuck I had to put a
          dowel
          > rod in the cpvc, which didn't fit right. So I had to mount the dowel rod
          in
          > the drill press and sand it down a little. Then the cpvc slipped onto the
          > dowel rod so I could sand down the cpvc. I had some trouble with wobble
          but
          > the cpvc seemed to do well enough. I cut pvc schedule 40 to press the
          > runner layers together, which is a bad idea because the cpvc was sanded
          down
          > too small to make a tight fit with the pvc. And the pvc cut wasn't
          square.
          > I glued the disk pack to the cpvc with super glue (CA) and the pvc pressed
          > onto the ends glued with super glue also. All seemed to be pretty usable
          so
          > I mounted the dowel rod in the drill press in order to cut it down for the
          > ID on the bearings. Bad idea. The dowel was too soft and wobled. So I
          > have a wobly, unusable, piece of junk, learned much from it, disk pack on
          my
          > desk for discussion with my coworkers.
          >
          > I know whats already published and all the examples given from this list.
          I
          > have limited resources and limited funding so I'm having to make do. I
          > really believe I can build a runner out of CDs so I'll keep going.
          >
          > #1 Gotta have a lathe to cut the shaft. I have a friend with one so I'll
          be
          > going over there soon.
          >
          > #2 If you build it, you will know more than all you can read about it.
          >
          > I plan on using roller blade ball bearings. They won't likely last long.
          >
          > When blowing air between the disks on the runner, will disk spreading
          become
          > a problem? Should I put pins and washers like Tesla's orginal design?
          >
          > Mike Passerotti
          >
          >
          > ________________________________________________________________________
          > ________________________________________________________________________
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >





          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • Mike Passerotti
          Thanks all! My friend with the lathe helped me turn a shaft with Corian. What a difference a lathe makes! Everything is so smooth now. I m not going to
          Message 4 of 4 , Mar 1, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            Thanks all!

            My friend with the lathe helped me turn a shaft with Corian. What a
            difference a lathe makes! Everything is so smooth now. I'm not going to
            rivet the disks, but I am going to super glue washers near the perimeter.
            I'll cut the washers out of CDs. Thanks for the tips on cutting holes in
            stacks of CDs. I have to cut the exhaust ports. I'm likely to try laser
            cutting at a local store, in the future, when I have cash. Until then, I'll
            use a CAD drawn paper template and a plate for bit control. I have many
            friends who can't wait for this TT to be running. They all pretty much have
            a wait and see attitude.

            Eventually I'll have to calculate work in and work out (P.E. in and K.E.
            out). Has anyone used an electric motor from radio control race cars as a
            generator? I figure on TT - geared down - drive electric generator -
            current to light bulbs in parallel. Can control load by how many light
            bulbs in parallel, then find a load where the TT can maximize power output
            without slowing too much.

            Anyone have the formula for the amount of stored energy (P.E.) in compressed
            air?

            Has anyone created a disk setup on the TT that is the generator? Tesla
            invented a flat disk generator having the magnets at the edge of the disk.
            I believe he had in mind useing the TT make electricity directly saving
            energy on gear reductions to drive a generator. I couldn't find any reading
            material on the use of his flat disk generator. He has a patent though.

            Mike Passerotti

            -----Original Message-----
            From: neil mackay [mailto:wyzed@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 1988 1:38 AM
            To: TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [TeslaTurbine] Digest Number 227


            Mike,
            The CD'S will be hard to drill accurately as the drill bit will garb
            on the plastic plus also the height of the angle on the drill will greater
            than the thickness of the CD. If you clamp all of them to gether real firm
            [ watch out they crack] between two plates ie 2-3mm thick aluminium and
            use the plates as a drill guide. Try "backing off the drill" so as to stop
            the grab.

            Tesla mentioned that the rivets will give additional "lift " on start up
            and this is my experience so far as well. They will also support the discs.
            On my stack I used 3mm nylon washers fro spacers. Nylon because they are
            cheap [ about $1 per 50] but also very light, metal washers would have
            added more weight than the actual stack it self [ my power source is low]
            If you are using compressed air for motivation, try brass or bronze bushing
            drill it and ream it for accuracy, you will have to drill a small hole on
            top of the bush to for oil, something light weight like sowing machine oil.
            If you make the bush with a thick wall you can counter bore the oil slightly
            larger to act as a reservoir.

            Also consider plastic, glass fibre filled teflon would be excellent,
            although I have achieved reasonable results with PVC and water as the
            lubricant. It will work fine you just have to keep the water up to the
            bearing to reduce any heat build up, other wise stand back , the melt down
            can be spectacular but only from a distance.
            PVC and brass, bronze not very expensive and very easy to work with. The
            catch is they are long term ideas but they will get you up and running for a
            very reasonable price.
            I also found the discs are thin/flexible, then bring the air inlet closer to
            90 degrees to the centre, mine is about 100 degrees at present and to seems
            to work ok. My stack is made from 2mm aluminium end plates and 1mm PVC discs
            with perimeter rivets. On air testing the sudden burst of air would push
            the PVC all over but settled down as the TT got going, still though I needed
            the rivets, very few in the centre and the majority on the perimeter.

            Hope this is of some help.
            Neil




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