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RE: [TeslaTurbine] Re: How Can We Help

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  • AE Hill
    Have we got any thoughts? Some of us are blessed [cursed] with as many thoughts as there are seconds in our lives… [smiles]. The question is, “Are any of
    Message 1 of 18 , Apr 13, 2005
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      Have we got any thoughts? Some of us are blessed
      [cursed] with as many thoughts as there are seconds in
      our lives� [smiles].

      The question is, �Are any of our thoughts of any
      value to what you are trying to do?� It would seem
      you do think some of the ideas on this site are of
      value. [smiles] Well, since you are weighing that
      one out for yourself, here are my contributions:

      --- NOTE: for lack of tabs on most blogs, I am using
      the following outline format, sorry if it is a bit
      hard to get used to� :{

      1 Design the blades out of ceramics.
      1.1 Lightweight, ultra-high temp, easy to shape, like
      the infamous Shuttle tiles.
      2 Design the motor to run at �One RPM� and load.
      (higher RPM=smaller diameter and higher torque [or
      lower breaking horsepower])
      2.1 �One RPM� will allow you to maximize efficiency
      while higher RPMs will make the whine or bearing drag
      an important factor [but no air bearings, see 4.4.1
      2.2 �One RPM� is practical because the motor will only
      drive an electric generator.
      3 If you think you will use electrolysis, look before
      you leap, but if you do go that route, you can use
      both the O2 and the H2. Electrolysis is a teaching
      demonstration that is not generally used in industry
      for H2 production for some good reasons.
      3.1 One alternative method is to use the electricity
      to make steam [using preheated water from a
      solar-water-heater?]. Pass the steam over catalysts,
      which will break steam into O2 and H2. To research
      more details for that method, look for documentation
      of the common industrial production methods for H2.
      3.2 Another alternative is to just charge batteries
      with your hydropower electricity, forget the H2 part�
      Oops, that�s right, charging car batteries creates H2
      and I guess you really did have your heart set on
      hearing the Tesla Turbine whine a bit.
      3.3 To get really far out, I think Dr. Tesla would
      have designed a high frequency, high voltage generator
      for your micro-hydro-power-plant and beamed the power
      to the car. I have no idea how to design a microwave
      or X-Ray frequency hydro-generator. I would
      experiment with microwave ovens, but that could be
      quite hazardous for any but the real Dr. Tesla types,
      I am not that qualified. Again, this idea gets away
      from the turbine idea unless the water is used to
      drive a high-speed turbine that in turn, drives a
      high-frequency and high-voltage generator.
      4 If you like the idea of using an existing car
      chassis, and throw away the wheels, drive shafts,
      rear-end and transmission, ditch the suspension as
      well, see the Hummer thought below. This will leave
      the steering and brakes hanging!
      4.1 You might also get rid of the back seat, use that
      area for heavy batteries in order to keep them as
      close to the center of car as is practical. You
      should also put special attention to lowering the
      center of gravity with the battery placement. The
      reason you probably want
      configuration is that you can then have very high
      torques for when the light first turns green, while
      critically tuning the main motor for the average power
      needs and then the batteries have to be just large
      enough amps to do the power averaging.
      4.1.1 100hp=75kw for our calculations [100hp =
      74570.10335416 volt-amperes]. [1/2 motor rating] � [average target hp] =
      [battery size in hp] but� you also want the motor rating and the
      battery rating [in hp] to be to be equal so that the
      other half of the motor rating [in hp] can recharge
      the batteries. A plot of �normal� hp usage over time would
      probably not be a bell-shaped curve. The curve may
      have substantial kurtosis [plot table one] and table
      one still has an average hp of about 100hp. For that
      reason you may have to consider another battery
      specification, technically known as internal
      resistance, but generally spec�ed as cranking amps for
      car batteries. The battery may well have 10k
      amp-hours [X coulombs] but you generally cannot get
      all them electrons out of the battery in one second!
      Therefore, this factor will effectively limit your
      peak hp [or fun factor]. The limit of electrons per
      second [amps] that a battery will supply at a working
      voltage recalculates to an effective internal
      resistance - according to Ohm�s Law:
      E [voltage] / I [amps] = R [ohms] or, for example:
      12volts / 100amps = 0.12ohms
      [or sometimes spec�ed in terms of conductance:
      1/R=G, 8 1/3 Mhos] Yet another, but similar sounding, concern is
      that you cannot put all the electrons back into a
      battery in one second. The example battery may not be
      able to be charged at a rate of 100 amps, even with an
      additional 2 volts [14v total] of charging pressure
      [too much pressure, in volts, can cause a battery to
      melt, rupture or explode]. A typical battery charger
      will control the charge rate via a current [amp]
      limiting feature. This will also factor into your
      calculations of how many batteries and what kind of
      batteries you think you need.
      4.2 You may need to check that the efficiency loss due
      to the weight of the batteries will be less than the
      increased efficiency effect of the tuned motor design.
      My intuition would say that is true by a considerable
      margin, but in reality, many design factors affect
      that answer! The smaller or no battery compromised
      design would have to compromise main-motor efficiency
      for increased maximum power and the ability to operate
      reliably over some range of RPMs and loads.
      4.3 Perhaps you can use small stock tires, but thin
      hard rubber tires would be more efficient. Long-haul
      trucks use �highway� tires, hard rubber treads, for
      both increased tire mileage and better fuel economy
      with the design sacrifice of longer stopping
      distances. Make sure that the tires you choose, will
      stop you safely as well as provide some desired
      fun-factors [acceleration, road conditions, usage,
      etc.]: slicks, mud treads, aircraft tires, monster
      tires, mini-spare-tires, etc.
      4.4 Design a new wheel with 25 to 100 hp electric
      motors in the center. You did say fun, right? The
      power actually transferred to the wheels will be
      outstanding compared to a �normal� car. Vettes and
      Hummers beware! They are able to transmit some
      percentage of the engine power to the wheels. Your
      four 25hp motors may be able to propel you faster than
      a Vette and get more air time than Bigfoot, let alone
      the pricey Hummer [albeit your buggy will not be cheap
      in its one-off version].
      4.4.1 Design the bearings to allow the car to be
      suspended from the four motors [not only the weight of
      the car, but the weight times the maximum forces,
      i.e., stopping, starting and centrifugal]. This will
      translate to very heavy-duty bearings, notice that all
      �normal� car wheel bearings look like the same design
      because that design is an inherently very heavy-duty
      4.4.2 Standard practice would use permanent-magnet DC
      motors, but I would design a Tesla style [brushless]
      high-frequency �Polyphase� motor [much like an
      oversized stepper motor] then bring out all the leads
      to the motor-control, which will be able to control
      the motor [effectively re-wiring the motor] for high
      torque and smoothly transition it [with several
      in-between modes] into high-speed [low-torque] mode.
      Lots of wires going to many different motor windings
      will have the added advantage of making the finial
      wire gauge and the motor control elements, much more
      practical, i.e., affordable, as well as increasing the
      reliability via semi-redundant elements [one wire
      breaks and you still go, if less efficiently]. The
      idea of using electric motor control instead of a
      mechanical transmission is from the well-proven
      diesel-electric locomotive designs [this means
      enormous and efficient torque by design].
      4.4.3 Do not forget to include a braking system in the
      wheel design, regenerative breaking will help, but the
      overall design should be able to stop about as fast as
      it starts. It seems wrong to use electric power for
      stopping, but that could be done by designing the
      motor-control with some special heavy-duty braking
      algorithm [thus you would not need the hydraulic
      braking system from the stock car]. I think I would
      stick with the old system just for the time proven
      safety factor. Hah yes, you will also want a parking brake,
      with all of the electricity off, you would not want
      your creation to seek a lower level all by itself.
      4.4.4 As you design the suspension system which
      connects the motor/wheels to the chassis, do not
      forget to allow for re-connecting the steering. Hummer idea: since the mechanical drivelines
      are gone, the suspension design can be rather radical.
      It will be much easier to design far greater
      up-and-down-travel with variable shock absorption. I
      would use an air-assisted shock system controlled by
      added circuits in the main motor control box. The
      motor-control will have some type of anti-slip control
      for each wheel; to add independent suspension control
      will enhance that performance. I could see this thing
      able to transverse a course of boulders while
      remaining level owing to a radical suspension design
      and controller with level sensing. As I envision it,
      this design could work better than a Hummer for rugged
      terrain demonstrations, i.e. during and after
      Armageddon, DARPA grant money anyone?
      5 If you simply want a novelty gadget, you might get
      some limited utility out of designing the Tesla
      turbines into the wheels [instead of Tesla�s Polyphase
      electric motors].

      Want more� ?

      Table one:
      A fictitious typical hp usage chart with substantial
      kurtosis [and double nodes]
      power [hp] time [percentage]
      ======== =============
      20 7.0%
      40 10.0%
      60 15.0%
      80 20.0%
      100 20.0%
      120 10.0%
      140 6.0%
      160 3.0%
      180 2.0%
      200 1.0%
      220 0.8%
      240 0.6%
      260 0.5%
      280 0.4%
      300 0.3%
      320 0.2%
      340 0.2%
      360 0.5%
      380 0.7%
      400 1.8%

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