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Tesla Turbine as a Compressor?

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  • wmgeorge2002
    First post. BTW Spammers the email address is just for you. I read my mail here!! A little background. I m a more or less self taught machinist with a pretty
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 15, 2004
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      First post. BTW Spammers the email address is just for you. I read my
      mail here!!

      A little background. I'm a more or less self taught machinist with a
      pretty complete home machine shop and a CNC plasmacutter. Electrician
      at first, but worked past 30 years or so in commercial refrigeration
      field. Has any work been done in using the TT as a compressor for
      refrigeration systems? This would need to compress a cool vapor into
      a high pressure and temperature, max 200 degrees F gas. If someone would
      point me to some practical links or books, would really help. Bill G.
    • Jim Dooley
      Bill, I think it must have been considered at one time or other for a replacement for a centrifugal chiller, using whatever is the replacement refrigerant for
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 15, 2004
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        Bill,
         
        I think it must have been considered at one time or other for a replacement for a centrifugal chiller, using whatever is the replacement refrigerant for Freon 11.  The concern that i would have is that for it to work effectively and cause enough compression to cause the refrigerant to condense after removal of the heat of compression, it woul dhave to operate at veryhigh RPMs.  I don't think the average 3450 RPM elcecric motor drive is going to cut it.  It would either have to be overdriven by a gearing mechanism, or the drive motor would have to be supplied with electricity at a much higher frequency than 60 hz.
         
        Jim Dooley
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 1:17 PM
        Subject: [TeslaTurbine] Tesla Turbine as a Compressor?

        First post. BTW Spammers the email address is just for you. I read my
        mail here!!

        A little background. I'm a more or less self taught machinist with a
        pretty complete home machine shop and a CNC plasmacutter. Electrician
        at first, but worked past 30 years or so in commercial refrigeration
        field. Has any work been done in using the TT as a compressor for
        refrigeration systems?  This would need to compress a cool vapor into
        a high pressure and temperature, max 200 degrees F gas. If someone would
        point me to some practical links or books, would really help. Bill G.


      • wmgeorge2002
        Jim most centrifugals (not all) use a gearbox to run the impeller at 20,000 to 30,000 rpm. My thought was a TT could be used as a low cost compressor. I think
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 16, 2004
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          Jim most centrifugals (not all) use a gearbox to run the impeller at
          20,000 to 30,000 rpm. My thought was a TT could be used as a low cost
          compressor. I think some people have used as a methane compressor?
          B.G.


          -- In TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Dooley" <LSUman@m...> wrote:
          > Bill,
          >
          > I think it must have been considered at one time or other for a
          replacement for a centrifugal chiller, using whatever is the
          replacement refrigerant for Freon 11. The concern that i would have
          is that for it to work effectively and cause enough compression to
          cause the refrigerant to condense after removal of the heat of
          compression, it woul dhave to operate at veryhigh RPMs. I don't
          think the average 3450 RPM elcecric motor drive is going to cut it.
          It would either have to be overdriven by a gearing mechanism, or the
          drive motor would have to be supplied with electricity at a much
          higher frequency than 60 hz.
          >
          > Jim Dooley
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: wmgeorge2002
          > To: TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 1:17 PM
          > Subject: [TeslaTurbine] Tesla Turbine as a Compressor?
          >
          >
          > First post. BTW Spammers the email address is just for you. I
          read my
          > mail here!!
          >
          > A little background. I'm a more or less self taught machinist
          with a
          > pretty complete home machine shop and a CNC plasmacutter.
          Electrician
          > at first, but worked past 30 years or so in commercial
          refrigeration
          > field. Has any work been done in using the TT as a compressor for
          > refrigeration systems? This would need to compress a cool vapor
          into
          > a high pressure and temperature, max 200 degrees F gas. If
          someone would
          > point me to some practical links or books, would really help.
          Bill G.
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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          > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TeslaTurbine/
          >
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          > TeslaTurbine-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          Service.
        • Jim Dooley
          Bill, At those RPMs, I would think that a Tesla compressor would probably work reasonably well. It remains to be seen exactly how well in a single stage. It
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 16, 2004
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            Bill,

             

            At those RPMs, I would think that a Tesla compressor would probably work reasonably well.  It remains to be seen exactly how well in a single stage.  It may take stage compounding to accomplish sufficient compression for a refrigeration system using the common refrigerants in use today, such as R134a, R-22 and replacements such as Puron.

             

            Jim

             

            -----Original Message-----
            From: wmgeorge2002 [mailto:machineshop@...]
            Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 10:46 AM
            To: TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [TeslaTurbine] Re: Tesla Turbine as a Compressor?

             

            Jim most centrifugals (not all) use a gearbox to run the impeller at
            20,000 to 30,000 rpm. My thought was a TT could be used as a low cost
            compressor. I think some people have used as a methane compressor?
            B.G.


            -- In TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Dooley" <LSUman@m...> wrote:

            > Bill,
            >
            > I think it must have been considered at one time or other for a
            replacement for a centrifugal chiller, using whatever is the
            replacement refrigerant for Freon 11.  The concern that i would have
            is that for it to work effectively and cause enough compression to
            cause the refrigerant to condense after removal of the heat of
            compression, it woul dhave to operate at veryhigh RPMs.  I don't
            think the average 3450 RPM elcecric motor drive is going to cut it. 
            It would either have to be overdriven by a gearing mechanism, or the
            drive motor would have to be supplied with electricity at a much
            higher frequency than 60 hz.
            >
            > Jim Dooley
            >   ----- Original Message -----
            >   From: wmgeorge2002
            >   To: TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com
            >   Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 1:17 PM
            >   Subject: [TeslaTurbine] Tesla Turbine as a Compressor?
            >
            >
            >   First post. BTW Spammers the email address is just for
            you. I
            read my
            >   mail here!!
            >
            >   A little background. I'm a more or less self taught
            machinist
            with a
            >   pretty complete home machine shop and a CNC plasmacutter.
            Electrician
            >   at first, but worked past 30 years or so in commercial
            refrigeration
            >   field. Has any work been done in using the TT as a
            compressor for
            >   refrigeration systems?  This would need to compress a
            cool vapor
            into
            >   a high pressure and temperature, max 200 degrees F gas. If

            someone would
            >   point me to some practical links or books, would really
            help.
            Bill G.
            >
            >
            >         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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            ADVERTISEMENT
            >             

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            href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TeslaTurbine/">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TeslaTurbine/
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            email to:
            >     TeslaTurbine-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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            the Yahoo! Terms of
            Service.



          • McGalliard, Frederick B
            ... From: Jim Dooley [mailto:LSUman@msis.net] ... At those RPMs, I would think that a Tesla compressor would probably work reasonably well. It remains to be
            Message 5 of 10 , Sep 16, 2004
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              Message
               
              -----Original Message-----
              From: Jim Dooley [mailto:LSUman@...] 
               ...
               At those RPMs, I would think that a Tesla compressor would probably work reasonably well.  It remains to be seen exactly how well in a single stage.  It may take stage compounding to accomplish sufficient compression for a refrigeration system using the common refrigerants in use today, such as R134a, R-22 and replacements such as Puron.

               

              Jim. I would recommend using a two turbine system. A compressor stage, running a power turbine, with the power fed back to the compressor through shaft and possibly gears. The compressed and heated gas runs through a heat exchanger to outside air, then when it works on the power turbine it cools off. The working gas can be air. This kind of heat engine is a bit more complex than a simple refrigerator, but it can be more efficient. And for a home built, no need to charge it with some expensive gas.

            • Jim Dooley
              MessageFred, I like the way you think, especially the part about no refrigerant. Although this would be ok for a direct A/C refrigeration/blower system, it
              Message 6 of 10 , Sep 16, 2004
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                Message
                Fred,
                 
                I like the way you think, especially the part about no refrigerant.  Although this would be ok for a direct A/C refrigeration/blower system, it would not be likely to work for other types of refrigeration where a high velocity stream of cold air is not desired, such as a food freezer.  I would think such a system would cause lots of "freezer burn" to the food.  Also, you'd have to find some way of removing condensate from the air stream when the output temperature falls below the dew point of the compressed air in the system.  However, I think this concept warrants investigation.  Does anyone on this list or the regular turbine list know of the results of Dr. Tom Edwards of Florida, who did some work with this concept in the early to mid 1970s?  I vaguely remember something about a problem with ice pellets forming in the discharge air stream.
                 
                Jim Dooley
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 5:16 PM
                Subject: RE: [TeslaTurbine] Re: Tesla Turbine as a Compressor?

                 
                -----Original Message-----
                From: Jim Dooley [mailto:LSUman@...] 
                 ...
                 At those RPMs, I would think that a Tesla compressor would probably work reasonably well.  It remains to be seen exactly how well in a single stage.  It may take stage compounding to accomplish sufficient compression for a refrigeration system using the common refrigerants in use today, such as R134a, R-22 and replacements such as Puron.

                 

                Jim. I would recommend using a two turbine system. A compressor stage, running a power turbine, with the power fed back to the compressor through shaft and possibly gears. The compressed and heated gas runs through a heat exchanger to outside air, then when it works on the power turbine it cools off. The working gas can be air. This kind of heat engine is a bit more complex than a simple refrigerator, but it can be more efficient. And for a home built, no need to charge it with some expensive gas.


              • wmgeorge2002
                Well I dug out last night all my Home Machinist Workshop magazines that had series on building a Tesla turbine. I m going to look through what I have and get
                Message 7 of 10 , Sep 17, 2004
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                  Well I dug out last night all my Home Machinist Workshop magazines
                  that had series on building a Tesla turbine. I'm going to look
                  through what I have and get some ideas, and maybe use those plans. I
                  know it will need some tweeking to make it pump a gas, two stage with
                  a check valve might be one way. B.G.


                  --- In TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Dooley" <LSUman@m...> wrote:
                  > MessageFred,
                  >
                  > I like the way you think, especially the part about no refrigerant.
                  Although this would be ok for a direct A/C refrigeration/blower
                  system, it would not be likely to work for other types of
                  refrigeration where a high velocity stream of cold air is not desired,
                  such as a food freezer. I would think such a system would cause lots
                  of "freezer burn" to the food. Also, you'd have to find some way of
                  removing condensate from the air stream when the output temperature
                  falls below the dew point of the compressed air in the system.
                  However, I think this concept warrants investigation. Does anyone on
                  this list or the regular turbine list know of the results of Dr. Tom
                  Edwards of Florida, who did some work with this concept in the early
                  to mid 1970s? I vaguely remember something about a problem with ice
                  pellets forming in the discharge air stream.
                  >
                  > Jim Dooley
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: McGalliard, Frederick B
                  > To: TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 5:16 PM
                  > Subject: RE: [TeslaTurbine] Re: Tesla Turbine as a Compressor?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Jim Dooley [mailto:LSUman@m...]
                  > ...
                  > At those RPMs, I would think that a Tesla compressor would
                  probably work reasonably well. It remains to be seen exactly how well
                  in a single stage. It may take stage compounding to accomplish
                  sufficient compression for a refrigeration system using the common
                  refrigerants in use today, such as R134a, R-22 and replacements such
                  as Puron.
                  >
                  >
                  > Jim. I would recommend using a two turbine system. A compressor
                  stage, running a power turbine, with the power fed back to the
                  compressor through shaft and possibly gears. The compressed and heated
                  gas runs through a heat exchanger to outside air, then when it works
                  on the power turbine it cools off. The working gas can be air. This
                  kind of heat engine is a bit more complex than a simple refrigerator,
                  but it can be more efficient. And for a home built, no need to charge
                  it with some expensive gas.
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  > ADVERTISEMENT
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TeslaTurbine/
                  >
                  > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > TeslaTurbine-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                  Service.
                • Welsh James E Contr 21SOPS/MCOM
                  would you be willing to scan those and post them here in the files section? I d like to see that. ... From: wmgeorge2002 [mailto:machineshop@hotmail.com] Sent:
                  Message 8 of 10 , Sep 17, 2004
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                    would you be willing to scan those and post them here in the files section? I'd like to see that.
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: wmgeorge2002 [mailto:machineshop@...]
                    Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 8:20 AM
                    To: TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [TeslaTurbine] Re: Tesla Turbine as a Compressor?

                    Well I dug out last night all my Home Machinist Workshop magazines
                    that had series on building a Tesla turbine.  I'm going to look
                    through what I have and get some ideas, and maybe use those plans. I
                    know it will need some tweeking to make it pump a gas, two stage with
                    a check valve might be one way. B.G.


                    --- In TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Dooley" <LSUman@m...> wrote:
                    > MessageFred,
                    >
                    > I like the way you think, especially the part about no refrigerant.
                    Although this would be ok for a direct A/C refrigeration/blower
                    system, it would not be likely to work for other types of
                    refrigeration where a high velocity stream of cold air is not desired,
                    such as a food freezer.  I would think such a system would cause lots
                    of "freezer burn" to the food.  Also, you'd have to find some way of
                    removing condensate from the air stream when the output temperature
                    falls below the dew point of the compressed air in the system.
                    However, I think this concept warrants investigation.  Does anyone on
                    this list or the regular turbine list know of the results of Dr. Tom
                    Edwards of Florida, who did some work with this concept in the early
                    to mid 1970s?  I vaguely remember something about a problem with ice
                    pellets forming in the discharge air stream.
                    >
                    > Jim Dooley
                    >
                    >   ----- Original Message -----
                    >   From: McGalliard, Frederick B
                    >   To: TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com
                    >   Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 5:16 PM
                    >   Subject: RE: [TeslaTurbine] Re: Tesla Turbine as a Compressor?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >     -----Original Message-----
                    >     From: Jim Dooley [mailto:LSUman@m...]
                    >      ...
                    >      At those RPMs, I would think that a Tesla compressor would
                    probably work reasonably well.  It remains to be seen exactly how well
                    in a single stage.  It may take stage compounding to accomplish
                    sufficient compression for a refrigeration system using the common
                    refrigerants in use today, such as R134a, R-22 and replacements such
                    as Puron.
                    >
                    >
                    >   Jim. I would recommend using a two turbine system. A compressor
                    stage, running a power turbine, with the power fed back to the
                    compressor through shaft and possibly gears. The compressed and heated
                    gas runs through a heat exchanger to outside air, then when it works
                    on the power turbine it cools off. The working gas can be air. This
                    kind of heat engine is a bit more complex than a simple refrigerator,
                    but it can be more efficient. And for a home built, no need to charge
                    it with some expensive gas.
                    >
                    >
                    >         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    >               ADVERTISEMENT
                    >             
                    >       
                    >       
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    >   Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TeslaTurbine/
                    >      
                    >     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    >     TeslaTurbine-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >      
                    >     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                    Service.


                  • Ed Ivory
                    you may want to look into combining a tesla turbine and a vortex cooler. I have a vortex cooler and it seems to work quiet well. ...
                    Message 9 of 10 , Sep 17, 2004
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                      you may want to look into combining a tesla turbine
                      and a vortex cooler. I have a vortex cooler and it
                      seems to work quiet well.
                      --- Jim Dooley <LSUman@...> wrote:

                      > MessageFred,
                      >
                      > I like the way you think, especially the part about
                      > no refrigerant. Although this would be ok for a
                      > direct A/C refrigeration/blower system, it would not
                      > be likely to work for other types of refrigeration
                      > where a high velocity stream of cold air is not
                      > desired, such as a food freezer. I would think such
                      > a system would cause lots of "freezer burn" to the
                      > food. Also, you'd have to find some way of removing
                      > condensate from the air stream when the output
                      > temperature falls below the dew point of the
                      > compressed air in the system. However, I think this
                      > concept warrants investigation. Does anyone on this
                      > list or the regular turbine list know of the results
                      > of Dr. Tom Edwards of Florida, who did some work
                      > with this concept in the early to mid 1970s? I
                      > vaguely remember something about a problem with ice
                      > pellets forming in the discharge air stream.
                      >
                      > Jim Dooley
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: McGalliard, Frederick B
                      > To: TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 5:16 PM
                      > Subject: RE: [TeslaTurbine] Re: Tesla Turbine as a
                      > Compressor?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Jim Dooley [mailto:LSUman@...]
                      > ...
                      > At those RPMs, I would think that a Tesla
                      > compressor would probably work reasonably well. It
                      > remains to be seen exactly how well in a single
                      > stage. It may take stage compounding to accomplish
                      > sufficient compression for a refrigeration system
                      > using the common refrigerants in use today, such as
                      > R134a, R-22 and replacements such as Puron.
                      >
                      >
                      > Jim. I would recommend using a two turbine system.
                      > A compressor stage, running a power turbine, with
                      > the power fed back to the compressor through shaft
                      > and possibly gears. The compressed and heated gas
                      > runs through a heat exchanger to outside air, then
                      > when it works on the power turbine it cools off. The
                      > working gas can be air. This kind of heat engine is
                      > a bit more complex than a simple refrigerator, but
                      > it can be more efficient. And for a home built, no
                      > need to charge it with some expensive gas.
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                      > ADVERTISEMENT
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TeslaTurbine/
                      >
                      > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
                      > email to:
                      > TeslaTurbine-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                      > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                      >
                      >




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                    • wmgeorge2002
                      Well I m missing a issue, I ll need to get it. It would be lots and lots of scanning, plus the stuff is still in print and copyrighted. They use all alumminum
                      Message 10 of 10 , Sep 20, 2004
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                        Well I'm missing a issue, I'll need to get it. It would be lots and
                        lots of scanning, plus the stuff is still in print and copyrighted.
                        They use all alumminum construction and I'm thinking of steel and
                        stainless steel. Not sure what I'm going to do at this point. I do
                        have a CNC plasma cutter that I might try to see if I can cut the
                        runners out of stainless. B.G.


                        --- In TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com, Welsh James E Contr 21SOPS/MCOM
                        <james.welsh@o...> wrote:
                        > would you be willing to scan those and post them here in the files
                        section?
                        > I'd like to see that.
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: wmgeorge2002 [mailto:machineshop@h...]
                        > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 8:20 AM
                        > To: TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [TeslaTurbine] Re: Tesla Turbine as a Compressor?
                        >
                        >
                        > Well I dug out last night all my Home Machinist Workshop magazines
                        > that had series on building a Tesla turbine. I'm going to look
                        > through what I have and get some ideas, and maybe use those plans. I
                        > know it will need some tweeking to make it pump a gas, two stage with
                        > a check valve might be one way. B.G.
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Dooley" <LSUman@m...> wrote:
                        > > MessageFred,
                        > >
                        > > I like the way you think, especially the part about no refrigerant.
                        > Although this would be ok for a direct A/C refrigeration/blower
                        > system, it would not be likely to work for other types of
                        > refrigeration where a high velocity stream of cold air is not desired,
                        > such as a food freezer. I would think such a system would cause lots
                        > of "freezer burn" to the food. Also, you'd have to find some way of
                        > removing condensate from the air stream when the output temperature
                        > falls below the dew point of the compressed air in the system.
                        > However, I think this concept warrants investigation. Does anyone on
                        > this list or the regular turbine list know of the results of Dr. Tom
                        > Edwards of Florida, who did some work with this concept in the early
                        > to mid 1970s? I vaguely remember something about a problem with ice
                        > pellets forming in the discharge air stream.
                        > >
                        > > Jim Dooley
                        > >
                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > From: McGalliard, Frederick B
                        > > To: TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 5:16 PM
                        > > Subject: RE: [TeslaTurbine] Re: Tesla Turbine as a Compressor?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > From: Jim Dooley [mailto:LSUman@m...]
                        > > ...
                        > > At those RPMs, I would think that a Tesla compressor would
                        > probably work reasonably well. It remains to be seen exactly how well
                        > in a single stage. It may take stage compounding to accomplish
                        > sufficient compression for a refrigeration system using the common
                        > refrigerants in use today, such as R134a, R-22 and replacements such
                        > as Puron.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Jim. I would recommend using a two turbine system. A compressor
                        > stage, running a power turbine, with the power fed back to the
                        > compressor through shaft and possibly gears. The compressed and heated
                        > gas runs through a heat exchanger to outside air, then when it works
                        > on the power turbine it cools off. The working gas can be air. This
                        > kind of heat engine is a bit more complex than a simple refrigerator,
                        > but it can be more efficient. And for a home built, no need to charge
                        > it with some expensive gas.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        > > ADVERTISEMENT
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        > --
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TeslaTurbine/
                        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TeslaTurbine/>
                        > >
                        > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > > TeslaTurbine-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > >
                        > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                        > Service.
                        >
                        >
                        >
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