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Re: [TeslaTurbine] new questions

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  • Drew Marinich
    Here s a funding site for new vehicle technologies http://www.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/financial/index.shtml Andy Jim Dooley wrote:
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 28, 2004
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      Here's a funding site for new vehicle technologies http://www.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/financial/index.shtml
       
      Andy

      Jim Dooley <LSUman@...> wrote:
      Mathew,
       
      The University of Louisiana at Lafayette.  BTW, air is just a mixture of gases, very little of which have any fuel value at all.  Thus a system using only air, while an admiral goal, seems to me to be without the possibility of ever working.  You can't get something for nothing.  To run a gas turbine, you have to burn some sort of fuel, and the exhaust gases from that combustion process are what is used to spin the turbine.  I see no other way for this to occur.  Remember, this hybrid concept is only a stopgap measure because battery technology does not yet have enough power density for adequate vehicle range.  When the batteries can hold enough power for 300-500 miles on a charge and can be recharged in the same time that it takes to fill a gas tank, then the onboard charger will cease to be needed.  When that time comes, I feel we need to invest heavily in nuclear power generation and use oil as a lubricant and a raw material for petrochemicals only.  There will no longer be a large need for oil as a motor fuel.
       
      Jim Dooley
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 9:10 PM
      Subject: [TeslaTurbine] new questions

      I've been reading the current posts and it sound like most of the
      turbines your talking about still require fossil fuels to run.  Is
      it not possible to develope a self sustaining system that uses the
      air that is all around us and will always be available unlike fossil
      fuels?  A system that has the turbine, power storage, a way to
      charge it, a compressor and a tank to hold the compressed air, all
      in one.  I have heard many reports saying that the oil's going to
      dry up in the next few years.  Also, wouldn't it be great to have a
      small contained system that doesn't put out any harmful chemicals
      into the air.

      Jim Dooly, I read you post on how you are working on a turbine with
      the chemical, and mechanical engineering department at the
      University you work at.  I was curious, what University to you work
      at?

      Mathew




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    • Drew Marinich
      Everyone should check out this site http://www.cheniere.org/toc.html Is it real or BS? Andy Jim Dooley wrote: Mathew, The University of
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 28, 2004
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        Everyone should check out this site http://www.cheniere.org/toc.html
          Is it real or BS?
        Andy
        Jim Dooley <LSUman@...> wrote:
        Mathew,
         
        The University of Louisiana at Lafayette.  BTW, air is just a mixture of gases, very little of which have any fuel value at all.  Thus a system using only air, while an admiral goal, seems to me to be without the possibility of ever working.  You can't get something for nothing.  To run a gas turbine, you have to burn some sort of fuel, and the exhaust gases from that combustion process are what is used to spin the turbine.  I see no other way for this to occur.  Remember, this hybrid concept is only a stopgap measure because battery technology does not yet have enough power density for adequate vehicle range.  When the batteries can hold enough power for 300-500 miles on a charge and can be recharged in the same time that it takes to fill a gas tank, then the onboard charger will cease to be needed.  When that time comes, I feel we need to invest heavily in nuclear power generation and use oil as a lubricant and a raw material for petrochemicals only.  There will no longer be a large need for oil as a motor fuel.
         
        Jim Dooley
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 9:10 PM
        Subject: [TeslaTurbine] new questions

        I've been reading the current posts and it sound like most of the
        turbines your talking about still require fossil fuels to run.  Is
        it not possible to develope a self sustaining system that uses the
        air that is all around us and will always be available unlike fossil
        fuels?  A system that has the turbine, power storage, a way to
        charge it, a compressor and a tank to hold the compressed air, all
        in one.  I have heard many reports saying that the oil's going to
        dry up in the next few years.  Also, wouldn't it be great to have a
        small contained system that doesn't put out any harmful chemicals
        into the air.

        Jim Dooly, I read you post on how you are working on a turbine with
        the chemical, and mechanical engineering department at the
        University you work at.  I was curious, what University to you work
        at?

        Mathew




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      • Welsh James E Contr 21SOPS/MCOM
        Mathew, As Jim said, we have not created a way to use Air as a fuel. However, you may have seen my recent post regarding hydrogen gas from water. There is
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 30, 2004
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          Mathew,
           
          As Jim said, we have not created a way to use Air as a fuel.
           
          However, you may have seen my recent post regarding hydrogen gas from water. There is technology out there to derive hydrogen from water and utilize the hydrogen as fuel. If you are interested in a fossil fuel replacement, perhaps you may be interested in looking into that sort of technology.
           
          Jimmy
          -----Original Message-----
          From: what_to_build_next [mailto:what_to_build_next@...]
          Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 7:10 PM
          To: TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [TeslaTurbine] new questions

          I've been reading the current posts and it sound like most of the
          turbines your talking about still require fossil fuels to run.  Is
          it not possible to develope a self sustaining system that uses the
          air that is all around us and will always be available unlike fossil
          fuels?  A system that has the turbine, power storage, a way to
          charge it, a compressor and a tank to hold the compressed air, all
          in one.  I have heard many reports saying that the oil's going to
          dry up in the next few years.  Also, wouldn't it be great to have a
          small contained system that doesn't put out any harmful chemicals
          into the air.

          Jim Dooly, I read you post on how you are working on a turbine with
          the chemical, and mechanical engineering department at the
          University you work at.  I was curious, what University to you work
          at?

          Mathew


        • Fred Sorenson
          ... Not so fast... http://www.mtsc.unt.edu/CooLN2Car.html These folks are achieving battery-scale energy densities by fueling a heat sink with liquid
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 30, 2004
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            --- Welsh James E Contr 21SOPS/MCOM <james.welsh@...> wrote:

            > Mathew,
            >
            > As Jim said, we have not created a way to use Air as a fuel.

            Not so fast...
            http://www.mtsc.unt.edu/CooLN2Car.html

            These folks are achieving battery-scale energy densities by "fueling" a heat
            sink with liquid nitgrogen which they boil using ambient heat.

            They have built a car that leaves nothing in its wake but a puff of cool
            nitrogen :)

            They say they are "examining ways to use solar powered gas liquefaction
            technologies"- but a request for further information went unanswered.

            Tesla muttered something in the stuff I've found on the web about running his
            turbine backwards as a compressor to drive "marvelous refrigerating plants"
            (http://my.execpc.com/~teba/main.html)- but I've yet to find any performance
            data...

            Battery-scale energy density may not be all that exciting- but if those 80%
            efficient solar cells ever see the light of day and suitable current densities
            in high-temperature superconducting cables are ever achieved, having whole
            bunches of liquid nitrogen around to cool them might be kinda handy to support
            a global superconducting grid :)

            > However, you may have seen my recent post regarding hydrogen gas from water.
            > There is technology out there to derive hydrogen from water and utilize the
            > hydrogen as fuel.

            Are you talking about electrolysis- or something more exotic?





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          • Welsh James E Contr 21SOPS/MCOM
            A 30 second scrub on yahoo yielded these links. I m sure you can find more info out there... It s been about a year since I was reading up on it.
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 30, 2004
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              A 30 second scrub on yahoo yielded these links. I"m sure you can find more info out there... It's been about a year since I was reading up on it.
               
               
               
               
               
              (from memory) The technology I was looking at utilizes an electronic excitation that causes a breakdown in the molecular bonds. That sounds like electrolysis to me, but like I said... it's been a while
               
              Good luck!
               
               
              -----Original Message-----
              From: Fred Sorenson [mailto:sea2fresh@...]
              Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 1:52 PM
              To: TeslaTurbine@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [TeslaTurbine] new questions

              --- Welsh James E Contr 21SOPS/MCOM <james.welsh@...> wrote:

              >
              Mathew,

              > As Jim said, we have not created a way to use Air
              as a fuel.

              Not so fast...
              http://www.mtsc.unt.edu/CooLN2Car.html

              These folks are achieving battery-scale energy densities by "fueling" a heat
              sink with liquid nitgrogen which they boil using ambient heat.

              They have built a car that leaves nothing in its wake but a puff of cool
              nitrogen :)

              They say they are "examining ways to use solar powered gas liquefaction
              technologies"- but a request for further information went unanswered.

              Tesla muttered something in the stuff I've found on the web about running his
              turbine backwards as a compressor to drive "marvelous refrigerating plants"
              (http://my.execpc.com/~teba/main.html)- but I've yet to find any performance
              data...

              Battery-scale energy density may not be all that exciting- but if those 80%
              efficient solar cells ever see the light of day and suitable current densities
              in high-temperature superconducting cables are ever achieved, having whole
              bunches of liquid nitrogen around to cool them might be kinda handy to support
              a global superconducting grid :)

              > However, you may have seen my recent post
              regarding hydrogen gas from water.
              > There is technology out there to
              derive hydrogen from water and utilize the
              > hydrogen as fuel.

              Are you talking about electrolysis- or something more exotic?




                         
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