Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

New Here

Expand Messages
  • Julia Maisen
    Hello, I work for an aquarium, managing their photo archive and DAM system. We don t really have a set taxonomy so I m looking to learn more about how to
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 5, 2012
    • 0 Attachment

      Hello,

      I work for an aquarium, managing their photo archive and DAM system.  We don’t really have a set taxonomy so I’m looking to learn more about how to create one.

       

      Julia

    • Lisa Grundy
      Hi Julia (and all), I work for a public agency based in Los Angeles; we are embarking on creating a taxonomy (from scratch!) which will be used to aid search
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 5, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Julia (and all),

        I work for a public agency based in Los Angeles; we are embarking on creating a taxonomy (from scratch!) which will be used to aid search and navigation in our being-built SharePoint suite of websites and later grow to inform our to-be records-management tool.  In addition, we are struggling with whether or not we should retain OnBase as our document management tool (users do not like it) AND we plan to create/buy a DAM.  All of this, of course, on next to zero dollars because we're a public agency and give new meaning to the word "frugal".

        Julia, if you would like to see how we are getting our taxonomy started and "look over my shoulder" as I engage with the users etc, I would be more than happy to talk/write.  It is an interesting journey, one that keeps wanting to have pitstops in Analysis-Paralysis-Land, but one that will be so worthwhile when we are done.

        To start:
        We tried out a Taxonomy visualization tool (open source) called Tematres.  Great tool for visually explaining to people what we're doing - but for actual work our users prefer Excel.
        Our websites are being rewritten in SharePoint (one done, one other nearly and a third in the early stages).  I gathered these website owners and, using some cool content from the web, explained what we are doing, why we are doing it, and brought up websites that implemented taxonomies that helped the site visitor find content.
        Over the course of a few meetings we hashed out basic termsets (groups of terms each of which feeds a metadata field) we would need and we are now working out how, using our chosen tool, to solve certain relational challenges.
        The trick has been to keep everybody focused on the idea that our taxonomy is a tool to help site visitors find content, NOT to inform them about our ever-changing organizational structure.
        We expect to have our Proof-of-concept termsets ready for the first website in about 2-3 weeks.  Once we have at least 2 sites tagged (probably end of October because the second one won't be done until mid October), we can examine them for search and for navigation.  If the POC is a success, the foundational users will teach and train others.  If not, we have a small enough group and body of content to go back and tweak.

        Best,
        Lisa

        On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Julia Maisen <jmaisen@...> wrote:
         

        Hello,

        I work for an aquarium, managing their photo archive and DAM system.  We don’t really have a set taxonomy so I’m looking to learn more about how to create one.

         

        Julia


      • David Riecks
        ... Julia: What DAM are you using? Are you familiar with embedded photo metadata? Most photo oriented DAM systems will recognize one of two IPTC
        Message 3 of 9 , Sep 5, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          At 05:58 PM 9/5/2012, Julia Maisen wrote:
          I work for an aquarium, managing their photo archive and DAM system.  We don�t really have a set taxonomy so I�m looking to learn more about how to create one.

          Julia:

          What DAM are you using?  Are you familiar with embedded photo metadata? 

          Most photo oriented DAM systems will recognize one of two IPTC (International Press Telecommunications Council http://www.iptc.org/) standards and extract that info when images are ingested/imported.

          The older IPTC standard is the Information Interchange Model or IIM ( http://www.photometadata.org/META-Resources-metadata-types-standards-IPTC-IIM ). The newer version is written using XMP, and is called IPTC Core ( http://www.photometadata.org/META-Resources-metadata-types-standards-IPTC-Core-and-extensions ) and the latest set include IPTC Extension (though only a handful of the multi-user / Enterprise DAMS support the IPTC Extension).

          Information on how to add this info prior to adding to your DAM with tools like Adobe Photoshop & Bridge, Expression Media, and Photo Mechanic are at http://www.photometadata.org/META-Tutorials

          Information on creating Controlled Vocabularies or Taxonomies for use with image collections can be found on my ControlledVocabulary site ( http://controlledvocabulary.com/).  There is a forum for discussing how to go about embedding information in your photos and working with interoperable metadata on the site as well.

          I was a guest on a webinar last week that might be of interest to you and others on this forum.  This was an hour long Q & A between David Diamond (Author of "The DAM Survival Guide") and myself titled "DAM & the Tao of Taxonomy." The recording is now up (as well as the questions from the audience that we didn't get to).  Access to the recording is FREE (no signup required).

          http://w4.picturepark.com/resources/webinars/dam-and-the-tao-of-taxonomy/
          or
          http://bit.ly/ORwM1U

          Hope that gives you a bit to get started.

          David

          --
          David Riecks  (that's "i" before "e", but the "e" is silent)
          Need Keywords for your database? Get the Controlled Vocabulary Solution
          http://controlledvocabulary.com/products/ support for a dozen of the
          most popular imaging applications from Adobe Bridge to Photo Mechanic.

        • drbogue
          So two things... First, Julia - If you re interested I ve gathered up some of the web casts and other information that I ve published and linked it from a blog
          Message 4 of 9 , Sep 6, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            So two things...

            First, Julia - If you're interested I've gathered up some of the web casts and other information that I've published and linked it from a blog post. It's at https://www.thorprojects.com/blog/archive/2011/11/28/information-architecture-resources-and-questions.aspx

            I believe the thing unique to your situation will be the idea of specificity. That is when I look outside I see trees. An arborist sees a silver maple. As a result tagging happens at different levels of specificity. You'll want to consider who the consumers are and how familiar they are with the space that you're in.

            Second, Lisa - Depending upon the size of your OnBase implementation SharePoint may be a great fit. It's great that you're focused on the consumption part of the problem (findability) -- however, I'd be sensitive to how difficult you make the content creation process (putability) because you may be able to get a pilot going but if it's too difficult users won't maintain it long term. Minimally sufficient is a good principle here.

            -Rob
            --- In TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com, Lisa Grundy <lisabgrundy@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Julia (and all),
            >
            > I work for a public agency based in Los Angeles; we are embarking on
            > creating a taxonomy (from scratch!) which will be used to aid search and
            > navigation in our being-built SharePoint suite of websites and later grow
            > to inform our to-be records-management tool. In addition, we are
            > struggling with whether or not we should retain OnBase as our document
            > management tool (users do not like it) AND we plan to create/buy a DAM.
            > All of this, of course, on next to zero dollars because we're a public
            > agency and give new meaning to the word "frugal".
            >
            > Julia, if you would like to see how we are getting our taxonomy started and
            > "look over my shoulder" as I engage with the users etc, I would be more
            > than happy to talk/write. It is an interesting journey, one that keeps
            > wanting to have pitstops in Analysis-Paralysis-Land, but one that will be
            > so worthwhile when we are done.
            >
            > To start:
            > We tried out a Taxonomy visualization tool (open source) called Tematres.
            > Great tool for visually explaining to people what we're doing - but for
            > actual work our users prefer Excel.
            > Our websites are being rewritten in SharePoint (one done, one other nearly
            > and a third in the early stages). I gathered these website owners and,
            > using some cool content from the web, explained what we are doing, why we
            > are doing it, and brought up websites that implemented taxonomies that
            > helped the site visitor find content.
            > Over the course of a few meetings we hashed out basic termsets (groups of
            > terms each of which feeds a metadata field) we would need and we are now
            > working out how, using our chosen tool, to solve certain relational
            > challenges.
            > The trick has been to keep everybody focused on the idea that our taxonomy
            > is a tool to help site visitors find content, NOT to inform them about our
            > ever-changing organizational structure.
            > We expect to have our Proof-of-concept termsets ready for the first website
            > in about 2-3 weeks. Once we have at least 2 sites tagged (probably end of
            > October because the second one won't be done until mid October), we can
            > examine them for search and for navigation. If the POC is a success, the
            > foundational users will teach and train others. If not, we have a small
            > enough group and body of content to go back and tweak.
            >
            > Best,
            > Lisa
            >
            > On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Julia Maisen <jmaisen@...> wrote:
            >
            > > **
            > >
            > >
            > > Hello,****
            > >
            > > I work for an aquarium, managing their photo archive and DAM system. We
            > > don't really have a set taxonomy so I'm looking to learn more about how to
            > > create one.****
            > >
            > > ** **
            > >
            > > Julia****
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
          • Julia Maisen
            Thanks for all the comments, here s a bit more about my situation. Right now we use Adobe Bridge to add metadata to all our images and a program called
            Message 5 of 9 , Sep 6, 2012
            • 0 Attachment

              Thanks for all the comments, here’s a bit more about my situation.

               

              Right now we use Adobe Bridge to add metadata to all our images and a program called SecureDAM (Also called BizSecure, I don’t recommend it, and in fact we’re currently looking for a new DAM system).  We have three admins tagging and uploading photos but there isn’t much consistency in keyword choice, which I’d like to change.  I’m interested in maybe setting up a taxonomy through Adobe Bridge’s keyword panel, but I’m not sure where to start, our keywords can be pretty specific as they deal with scientific names and exhibits. We also have Lightroom, but I don’t know a lot about that program and whether it’s better taxonomy wise than Bridge.

               

              If you’re starting from scratch is there a good way to go about setting up your own taxonomy?

               

              Thanks.

               

              From: TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Riecks
              Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 8:59 PM
              To: TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [TaxoCoP] New Here

               

               

              At 05:58 PM 9/5/2012, Julia Maisen wrote:

              I work for an aquarium, managing their photo archive and DAM system.  We don?t really have a set taxonomy so I?m looking to learn more about how to create one.


              Julia:

              What DAM are you using?  Are you familiar with embedded photo metadata? 

              Most photo oriented DAM systems will recognize one of two IPTC (International Press Telecommunications Council http://www.iptc.org/) standards and extract that info when images are ingested/imported.

              The older IPTC standard is the Information Interchange Model or IIM ( http://www.photometadata.org/META-Resources-metadata-types-standards-IPTC-IIM ). The newer version is written using XMP, and is called IPTC Core ( http://www.photometadata.org/META-Resources-metadata-types-standards-IPTC-Core-and-extensions ) and the latest set include IPTC Extension (though only a handful of the multi-user / Enterprise DAMS support the IPTC Extension).

              Information on how to add this info prior to adding to your DAM with tools like Adobe Photoshop & Bridge, Expression Media, and Photo Mechanic are at http://www.photometadata.org/META-Tutorials

              Information on creating Controlled Vocabularies or Taxonomies for use with image collections can be found on my ControlledVocabulary site ( http://controlledvocabulary.com/).  There is a forum for discussing how to go about embedding information in your photos and working with interoperable metadata on the site as well.

              I was a guest on a webinar last week that might be of interest to you and others on this forum.  This was an hour long Q & A between David Diamond (Author of "The DAM Survival Guide") and myself titled "DAM & the Tao of Taxonomy." The recording is now up (as well as the questions from the audience that we didn't get to).  Access to the recording is FREE (no signup required).

              http://w4.picturepark.com/resources/webinars/dam-and-the-tao-of-taxonomy/
              or
              http://bit.ly/ORwM1U

              Hope that gives you a bit to get started.

              David

              --
              David Riecks  (that's "i" before "e", but the "e" is silent)
              Need Keywords for your database? Get the Controlled Vocabulary Solution
              http://controlledvocabulary.com/products/ support for a dozen of the
              most popular imaging applications from Adobe Bridge to Photo Mechanic.

            • David Riecks
              ... Julia: There are lots of them out there, and most have carved out niches where their uniqueness serves them well. The problem for those starting out, is
              Message 6 of 9 , Sep 6, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                At 11:32 AM 9/6/2012, Julia Maisen wrote:
                Right now we use Adobe Bridge to add metadata to all our images and a program called SecureDAM (Also called BizSecure, I don�t recommend it, and in fact we�re currently looking for a new DAM system).

                Julia:

                There are lots of them out there, and most have carved out niches where their uniqueness serves them well. The problem for those starting out, is figuring out what their requirements are, and going through the "dating" process in order to find the one with the right fit. 

                Starting with Embedded Metadata can be very useful in this instance, as you can evaluate a number of them by simply "ingesting"(importing) these tagged assets.

                 We have three admins tagging and uploading photos but there isn�t much consistency in keyword choice, which I�d like to change.  I�m interested in maybe setting up a taxonomy through Adobe Bridge�s keyword panel, but I�m not sure where to start, our keywords can be pretty specific as they deal with scientific names and exhibits.

                The keyword field in Bridge accepts a fairly simple "plain vanilla" file format that is a variation used by Lightroom.  It's best to think of these as hierarchically arranged controlled vocabularies, rather than taxonomies or thesauri, since you are limited, essentially to branching out from a broad term higher order to more narrow terms.

                You can request a sample from my website, http://www.controlledvocabulary.com/products/bridge.html
                That will give you a taste of what the format needed looks like for importing into Bridge. 

                More detailed info on how to import/export/use controlled vocabularies with Adobe Bridge can be found here: http://www.controlledvocabulary.com/help/cvkc-bridge.html

                 We also have Lightroom, but I don�t know a lot about that program and whether it�s better taxonomy wise than Bridge.

                The controlled vocabulary keyword catalogs for Lightroom are more complex, but whether or not it's a good fit for your operation is hard to say.  One downside to using Lightroom is that any terms that are designated as "synonyms" will only be assigned to images when they are "exported" from Lightroom.  See http://www.controlledvocabulary.com/help/cvkc-lightroom.html#hierarchicalkeywords for details on that issue.

                It's possible to share keyword catalogs between Lightroom and Bridge, but only if you are using the simpler format used by Bridge. See http://www.controlledvocabulary.com/help/cvkc-faq.html#q10 for more details.

                 If you�re starting from scratch is there a good way to go about setting up your own taxonomy?

                I have a long list of examples on my site: http://www.controlledvocabulary.com/examples.html that may be useful, if your subject matter area is represented.  Typically these aren't something you'll be able to use directly, but you'll need to "wrangle" into a format that Bridge can use.

                As a first step, I usually recommend "card sorting" as a first step.  It's also possible to do with Excel spreadsheets.  I believe there was a thread on this process discussed earlier this spring that Donna Spencer was involved with.  http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/TaxoCoP/message/4252
                This earlier post might be useful as well. http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/TaxoCoP/message/3818

                One of the questions on the webinar I mentioned yesterday also touched on this issue, and someone mentioned the name of an application that David Diamond mentioned towards the end of the presentation (sorry, but don't recall is offhand, it is mentioned in the webinar... which is free to view/hear at: http://w4.picturepark.com/resources/webinars/dam-and-the-tao-of-taxonomy/
                or
                http://bit.ly/ORwM1U

                Hope that helps.

                David

                --
                David Riecks  (that's "i" before "e", but the "e" is silent)
                Need Keywords for your database? Get the Controlled Vocabulary Solution
                http://controlledvocabulary.com/products/ support for a dozen of the
                most popular imaging applications from Adobe Bridge to Photo Mechanic.

              • Alice
                Julia, Welcome to taxonomyworld! Since you re asking about basic how to create a taxonomy, several suggestions come to mind. --Heather Hedden s book The
                Message 7 of 9 , Sep 6, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  Julia,
                  Welcome to taxonomyworld! Since you're asking about basic "how to create" a taxonomy, several suggestions come to mind.

                  --Heather Hedden's book "The Accidental Taxonomist" is a solid and practical foundation.
                  --www.TaxoDiary.com has been running a series by Margie Hlava on basic steps in taxonomy creation, starting (I think) with July 23 "General Approaches to Creating a Taxonomy" and continuing each Monday since then.
                  --Marcia Zeng's "Construction of Controlled Vocabularies: A Primer" online
                  --Upcoming Taxonomy Boot Camp, starting Oct. 16 and always a wonderful kick-starter, will have a basic and advanced track. May be a stretch but very worthwhile.

                  Those are just a few good places to start learning. Since you're working with images, if news-oriented, the IPTC is also a good place to start and build on to customize for your purposes.

                  Looking forward to a progress report!
                  Alice

                  --- In TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com, Julia Maisen <jmaisen@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello,
                  > I work for an aquarium, managing their photo archive and DAM system. We don't really have a set taxonomy so I'm looking to learn more about how to create one.
                  >
                  > Julia
                  >
                • Claude Baudoin
                  Julia, Others have already replied authoritatively about your questions, but I’ll pitch in too. I spent 10 months (July 2011 to April 2012) helping a
                  Message 8 of 9 , Sep 7, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment

                    Julia,

                     

                    Others have already replied authoritatively about your questions, but I’ll pitch in too.

                     

                    I spent 10 months (July 2011 to April 2012) helping a multinational technical company complete, clean up, improve and integrate a taxonomy (which was in draft stage when I started) aimed at SharePoint content classification/search, as well as organizing content in several legacy document management systems and other web-based applications. The “finished” taxonomy (it’s never finished, but by April it had reached the “maintenance” stage in terms of content) has 12 facets and about 4000 terms. So if you want to pick my brains, even in a “frugal” way, we can talk.

                     

                    In terms of starting from scratch, here’s what I would recommend:

                    ·         Beg, borrow or steal what you can, both from existing internal systems, which often have a de facto list of keywords, menu structures, etc., that all represent seeds for a taxonomy, and from outside sources. It’s funny how sometimes just a Wikipedia article on a subject has a table of contents that gives you ideas about a taxonomy!

                    ·         Involve users and stakeholders through interviews and workshops.

                    ·         They will invariably start any discussion with “what the heck is this, why do we need to spend time on it, and how will it improve our life?” so you need to have a clear, concise, consistent and supported message about what a taxonomy is, what real problems it solves, what’s expected of them, when will they see results, etc., and they need to be routinely informed of the progress.

                    ·         For that reason, I would really recommend that the taxonomy be developed in such a way that it is visible to everyone in the organization in a read-only Web page. There are tools that will do that. Then you can show everyone the progress you’re making, in almost real time.

                     

                    Feel free to contact me for more brainstorming if you want.

                     

                    I second Alice’s recommendation about Heather Hedden’s book, which I found very valuable (I think Alice may have been the one recommending it to me in the first place), and also about the Taxonomy Boot Camp, which is the key annual event in this field (but it requires travel funding, obviously, and I have a client who was planning to go and had to cancel when budgets were cut; if you can get approval, you should definitely try to go).

                     

                    Claude Baudoin

                    cébé IT & Knowledge Management

                    Austin, TX

                  • Alice
                    Julia, You write that you have 3 admins tagging already, though without a consistent, controlled vocabulary. Appreciate the value of what you have. Pull
                    Message 9 of 9 , Sep 8, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Julia,
                      You write that you have 3 admins tagging already, though without a consistent, controlled vocabulary. Appreciate the value of what you have. Pull together all the terms that have been used in the past ~3 yrs and review that list for repeating patterns and trends (e.g. related to the exhibits), similar tags, duplicate meanings, etc.

                      I once worked with a TV network with a somewhat similar situation--editors wrote descriptions of video and then tagged them. It took a while to help them realize that all 15 of their commonly used variations on a concept were really all about the same concept, leaving one valid term and 14 nonpreferred terms. But the editors made the cognitive and practical leap and now get the work done much faster and can retrieve fast and accurately.

                      The lesson is to work with what you have, shape it up, and then build on it. No one has a vocabulary more suited to your work than you do!
                      --alice

                      --- In TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com, Julia Maisen <jmaisen@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Thanks for all the comments, here's a bit more about my situation.
                      >
                      > Right now we use Adobe Bridge to add metadata to all our images and a program called SecureDAM (Also called BizSecure, I don't recommend it, and in fact we're currently looking for a new DAM system). We have three admins tagging and uploading photos but there isn't much consistency in keyword choice, which I'd like to change. I'm interested in maybe setting up a taxonomy through Adobe Bridge's keyword panel, but I'm not sure where to start, our keywords can be pretty specific as they deal with scientific names and exhibits. We also have Lightroom, but I don't know a lot about that program and whether it's better taxonomy wise than Bridge.
                      >
                      > If you're starting from scratch is there a good way to go about setting up your own taxonomy?
                      >
                      > Thanks.
                      >
                      > From: TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Riecks
                      > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 8:59 PM
                      > To: TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [TaxoCoP] New Here
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > At 05:58 PM 9/5/2012, Julia Maisen wrote:
                      > I work for an aquarium, managing their photo archive and DAM system. We don?t really have a set taxonomy so I?m looking to learn more about how to create one.
                      >
                      > Julia:
                      >
                      > What DAM are you using? Are you familiar with embedded photo metadata?
                      >
                      > Most photo oriented DAM systems will recognize one of two IPTC (International Press Telecommunications Council http://www.iptc.org/) standards and extract that info when images are ingested/imported.
                      >
                      > The older IPTC standard is the Information Interchange Model or IIM ( http://www.photometadata.org/META-Resources-metadata-types-standards-IPTC-IIM ). The newer version is written using XMP, and is called IPTC Core ( http://www.photometadata.org/META-Resources-metadata-types-standards-IPTC-Core-and-extensions ) and the latest set include IPTC Extension (though only a handful of the multi-user / Enterprise DAMS support the IPTC Extension).
                      >
                      > Information on how to add this info prior to adding to your DAM with tools like Adobe Photoshop & Bridge, Expression Media, and Photo Mechanic are at http://www.photometadata.org/META-Tutorials
                      >
                      > Information on creating Controlled Vocabularies or Taxonomies for use with image collections can be found on my ControlledVocabulary site ( http://controlledvocabulary.com/). There is a forum for discussing how to go about embedding information in your photos and working with interoperable metadata on the site as well.
                      >
                      > I was a guest on a webinar last week that might be of interest to you and others on this forum. This was an hour long Q & A between David Diamond (Author of "The DAM Survival Guide") and myself titled "DAM & the Tao of Taxonomy." The recording is now up (as well as the questions from the audience that we didn't get to). Access to the recording is FREE (no signup required).
                      >
                      > http://w4.picturepark.com/resources/webinars/dam-and-the-tao-of-taxonomy/
                      > or
                      > http://bit.ly/ORwM1U
                      >
                      > Hope that gives you a bit to get started.
                      >
                      > David
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      > David Riecks (that's "i" before "e", but the "e" is silent)
                      > Need Keywords for your database? Get the Controlled Vocabulary Solution
                      > http://controlledvocabulary.com/products/ support for a dozen of the
                      > most popular imaging applications from Adobe Bridge to Photo Mechanic.
                      >
                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.