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Re: What ever happened to folksonomies?

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  • deddy205ar
    Matt - ... Excellent point. What s the use of having my tags buried inside a single application? That s like having your spell checker/dictionary buried
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 31, 2011
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      Matt -

      >
      > A common issue is that a lot of applications don't aggregate or share tags
      > but keep them in silos - which defeats the point to an extent.
      >

      Excellent point.

      What's the use of having "my" tags buried inside a single application? That's like having
      your spell checker/dictionary buried inside MSOffice.

      What if I want to use that term in another, non MSOffice, application?


      A tagger, like a spellchecker/dictionary MUST be outside any individual application.

      Seems obvious, but I certainly haven't seen anyone do it yet.

      - David



      --- In TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com, Matt Moore <innotecture@...> wrote:
      >
      > Jordan, Glenda, Lee & Gary - Many thanks for responding.
      >
      > Jordan:
      >
      > "I'd agree that you don't hear the term too often anymore though user generated tags to categorize content are still a primary way to navigate flickr and delicious, two sites that were prime examples of folksonomies in use"
      >
      >
      > Indeed, but delicious isn't doing so good at the moment. There's less talk about folksonomy on the web powerhouses of today - e.g. Facebook.
      >
      > Glenda:
      >
      > While the AGLIN presso is interesting (and their efforts are to be applauded), tagging/folksonomies seemed very much like an afterthought - "...oh, I guess we'd better do that too..."
      >
      > Lee:
      >
      > I guess it's no longer "hot" but I think we've passed through the "trough of disillusionment" (to use a Gartner Hype Cycle term) for many social software approaches and we're now reaching the "plateau of productivity" for some of them. Wikis (and their writeable kin) made it through. Community/conservation spaces did. Prediction markets didn't. Blogs are kinda touch and go. Various vendors are still pitching to be "Facebook for the Enterprise" and I don't think the outcome from that is clear yet (I'm not convinced that concept makes sense for many businesses). I'm still unsure as to whether folksonomies have made it to the plateau of productivity.
      >
      > BTW The "hot" thing now is mobile apps (social media, how last decade).
      >
      > "it doesn't seem to get as much uptake as you might hope based on the intent of empowering users to influence search, taxonomy, etc.  I still don't really know why - maybe it's still "too technical" for the bulk of users to really care to do tagging??"
      >
      > Organising content (e.g. through folders) is a widespread behaviour. Doing it through tagging in a work context is a less common behaviour. As well as posting to this list, I also dropped a line to Thomas Vander Wal and received a considered and interesting response that touches of some of these issues. I have asked him to post a version of this response on his blog if he has time. A common issue is that a lot of applications don't aggregate or share tags but keep them in silos - which defeats the point to an extent.
      >
      > Lee - What would you change to make tagging more widespread? Is that a worthwhile goal in itself?
      >
      > Gary:
      >
      > "I am not sure if there has been a whole lot of value derived from them otherwise, at least behind the firewall."
      >
      >
      > That's interesting - why do you come to that conclusion?
      >
      > "I'd also argue that twitter hashtags and hashtags used in similar corporate feeds serve a very similar role of folksonomies and offer the same benefits for end users and taxonomists looking for trends."
      >
      > This is another interesting point. From an information perspective, Twitter and delicious both associate URLs, keywords and people so there's no difference between them. However, the user experience is very different. Twitter is conversational and ephemeral in a way that delicious isn't. The conversational piece boosts usage and can also provide context but the ephemeral bit makes it hard to use as an information organisation tool.
      >
      > In a corporate environment, you should be able to link your microblogging, your long-form content (e.g. intranet or wikipages) and your tagging. The aforementioned siloing of applications limits the opportunity to make this happen.
      >
      > Cheers,
      >
      > Matt
      >
    • Suz
      I am interested to hear Gary s note referring to having a taxonomist review trends on a scheduled basis . I recently asked for an export of the Enterprise
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 1, 2011
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        I am interested to hear Gary's note referring to having a "taxonomist review trends on a scheduled basis". I recently asked for an export of the Enterprise Keywords from our SharePoint farm and got a spreadsheet of 3,693 keywords. Some were pretty nasty, e.g. full sentences, full stops (i.e. the keyword was ".") but others could be valuable. If only I had a dedicated taxonomist to review it for me.

        Gary also mentioned metrics on usage - I assume that means in Sharepoint? Would you care to share more on metrics for keywords/social tagging in detail?

        Best Regards,
        Suzanne Edwards (nee Sheppard)

        --- In TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com, Gary Carlson <garyecarlson@...> wrote:
        >
        > Some notion of "folksonomy" has definitely shed its long hair and anarchist tendencies for a suit and respectability. As mentioned, SharePoint now has the Enterprise Keywords and there are plenty of other apps taking advantage of user generated tags. However, despite the decrease in buzz I am finding them to be excellent sources of emerging taxonomy terms/trends. However, on most of my projects we have been able to put some metrics on their usage or have a taxonomist review trends on a scheduled basis. I am not sure if there has been a whole lot of value derived from them otherwise, at least behind the firewall.
        >
        > I'd also argue that twitter hashtags and hashtags used in similar corporate feeds serve a very similar role of folksonomies and offer the same benefits for end users and taxonomists looking for trends.
        >
        >
        > On Aug 30, 2011, at 3:47 AM, Lee Romero wrote:
        >
        > > I suspect that part of it is that it's a functionality that has now "gone corporate". So it was the kind of topic that seemed exciting but now that it's "been done" it's not so exciting any more.
        > >
        > > It is even in SharePoint now, so how much less exciting could it be, right? :)
        > >
        > > Where I have seen it implemented internally, it doesn't seem to get as much uptake as you might hope based on the intent of empowering users to influence search, taxonomy, etc. I still don't really know why - maybe it's still "too technical" for the bulk of users to really care to do tagging??
        > >
        > > Regards
        > > Lee
        > >
        > >
        > > On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 9:32 PM, Matt Moore <innotecture@...> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > Hello,
        > >
        > > I'm writing a presentation for the Australian Society of Indexers and they want me to talk about folksonomies. There are a few case studies that I can almost recite in my sleep now (e.g. Mitre's onomi) but folksonomy as an area of interest seemed to peak at the end of last decade and it's been a bit quiet for the last couple of years.
        > >
        > > What are other people's perspectives? Do you disagree?
        > >
        > > Regards,
        > >
        > > Matt
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
      • Gary Carlson
        Hello Suzanne, In my latest project for a very large SP 2010 implementation we were able to get the list of Enterprise Keywords (over 100,000) and the number
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 1, 2011
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          Hello Suzanne,

          In my latest project for a very large SP 2010 implementation we were able to get the list of Enterprise Keywords (over 100,000) and the number of times they were used in the user profile pages.  Obviously there was a lot of noise, but when we looked at keywords that had been used 5 or more times the number came down significantly and we were able to identify a number of potential terms as well as synonyms for existing terms in the term store.  

          This proved to be a great way to clean up the Enterprise Keywords list.  We did a few other things using the promote and merge functions in SP to clean things up and reduce the creation of keyword that had the same label as terms that were in existing term sets.

          Obviously, in this scenario, access to a taxonomist and some SP 2010 technical resources was quite helpful.  

          Gary Carlson



          On Sep 1, 2011, at 9:13 AM, Suz wrote:

           

          I am interested to hear Gary's note referring to having a "taxonomist review trends on a scheduled basis". I recently asked for an export of the Enterprise Keywords from our SharePoint farm and got a spreadsheet of 3,693 keywords. Some were pretty nasty, e.g. full sentences, full stops (i.e. the keyword was ".") but others could be valuable. If only I had a dedicated taxonomist to review it for me.

          Gary also mentioned metrics on usage - I assume that means in Sharepoint? Would you care to share more on metrics for keywords/social tagging in detail?

          Best Regards,
          Suzanne Edwards (nee Sheppard)

          --- In TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com, Gary Carlson <garyecarlson@...> wrote:
          >
          > Some notion of "folksonomy" has definitely shed its long hair and anarchist tendencies for a suit and respectability. As mentioned, SharePoint now has the Enterprise Keywords and there are plenty of other apps taking advantage of user generated tags. However, despite the decrease in buzz I am finding them to be excellent sources of emerging taxonomy terms/trends. However, on most of my projects we have been able to put some metrics on their usage or have a taxonomist review trends on a scheduled basis. I am not sure if there has been a whole lot of value derived from them otherwise, at least behind the firewall.
          >
          > I'd also argue that twitter hashtags and hashtags used in similar corporate feeds serve a very similar role of folksonomies and offer the same benefits for end users and taxonomists looking for trends.
          >
          >
          > On Aug 30, 2011, at 3:47 AM, Lee Romero wrote:
          >
          > > I suspect that part of it is that it's a functionality that has now "gone corporate". So it was the kind of topic that seemed exciting but now that it's "been done" it's not so exciting any more.
          > >
          > > It is even in SharePoint now, so how much less exciting could it be, right? :)
          > >
          > > Where I have seen it implemented internally, it doesn't seem to get as much uptake as you might hope based on the intent of empowering users to influence search, taxonomy, etc. I still don't really know why - maybe it's still "too technical" for the bulk of users to really care to do tagging??
          > >
          > > Regards
          > > Lee
          > >
          > >
          > > On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 9:32 PM, Matt Moore <innotecture@...> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > Hello,
          > >
          > > I'm writing a presentation for the Australian Society of Indexers and they want me to talk about folksonomies. There are a few case studies that I can almost recite in my sleep now (e.g. Mitre's onomi) but folksonomy as an area of interest seemed to peak at the end of last decade and it's been a bit quiet for the last couple of years.
          > >
          > > What are other people's perspectives? Do you disagree?
          > >
          > > Regards,
          > >
          > > Matt
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >


        • deddy205ar
          Suz - ... And I thought I was getting out of control with 800 keywords. (Granted I m only a single person.) Do those keywords come with definitions or
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 1, 2011
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            Suz -

            --- In TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com, "Suz" <suzzywuzzy@...> wrote:
            >
            > I recently asked for an export of the Enterprise Keywords from our SharePoint
            > farm and got a spreadsheet of 3,693 keywords.
            >

            And I thought I was getting out of control with 800 keywords. (Granted I'm only a
            single person.)

            Do those keywords come with definitions or descriptions?

            - David
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