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RE: [TaxoCoP] New Members

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  • Seth Earley
    Hi Susan, How are you auto populating your metadata? That is always a challenge. Too many fields and it becomes too cumbersome. Other than date and author
    Message 1 of 12 , Oct 2, 2005
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      Hi Susan,

      How are you auto populating your metadata? That is always a challenge. Too
      many fields and it becomes too cumbersome. Other than date and author and
      the easy ones, what else have you populated metadata?

      How are you finding the content and data requirements differing? I have
      been talking to data modelers and taxo people about the need to collaborate.
      Have you been pulling those types of teams together or are you finding
      separate initiatives?

      I know there have been others facing the same challenges here. Other
      experiences?

      Seth

      -----Original Message-----
      From: TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
      Of Susan Hensley
      Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 1:19 PM
      To: TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [TaxoCoP] New Members


      Hi Seth and all,

      I am working on creating a metadata and content model
      to support content reuse across a financial web site.

      This implies a "vocabulary" for our xml document
      structure, as well as a real controlled vocab of
      products, services and topics that we'd like to be
      able to build to serve our content model use cases.
      Right now we have a few metadata fields with decent
      autopopulated values, and an implicit taxonomy in our
      folder structures.

      I am starting to become more of a "data modeler" as
      part of my Information Architect identity and it's
      very interesting - but requirements for *content* seem
      to me to be a little different than requirements for
      *data* and there is less information on how to
      translate those requirements into models, but then
      I've just begun to use UML models.

      Anyone else here working on similar issues?

      Tx,

      Susan

      --- Seth Earley <seth@...> wrote:

      > Try this again.
      >
      > My last note was cut off.
      >
      > As I said , we've had a number of new members join.
      >
      > When you join, you enter a short reason why you are
      > interested in the group
      > and some have told me who they are and what company
      > they are with.
      >
      > So perhaps I could encourage more of you to send a
      > brief introduction and
      > tell us something about the projects you are working
      > on.
      >
      > The goal is to know who our community is and to see
      > if people are working on
      > similar projects. This way we have a better chance
      > of stimulating dialog.
      >
      > A lot of people are new to this and may be hesitant
      > to post. I encourage
      > you to simply tell us who you are and why you are
      > interested in the topic.
      >
      > Thanks!
      >
      >
      > Seth
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com
      > [mailto:TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
      > Of seth_earley
      > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 11:58 PM
      > To: TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [TaxoCoP] New Members
      >
      >
      > We've had a number of new members join. Everyone
      > puts something in
      > the note to me in the list workpaced escribing what
      > they do. But I
      > don't actually post those here.
      >
      > Take a minute and put something along the lines
      > and part of the
      > project we worked
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >





      Yahoo! Groups Links
    • Seth Earley
      That is a really good question. In larger organizations there are many dependencies for controlled vocabularies. In some cases the change control is
      Message 2 of 12 , Oct 2, 2005
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        That is a really good question.  In larger organizations there are many dependencies for controlled vocabularies.  In some cases the change control is formalized and constituencies are at least apprised of updates and have a say in how those updates are deployed.  In others the process is less formalized and changes cause unintentional downstream effects. 
         
        Since your users are even more decentralized and potentially depend on your taxo in a variety of ways, it is more problematic - one process may not be suitable for all.
         
        Can you describe a specific user scenario?  Is that typical?  Are there variations on that usage?  Are there internal dependencies in your client's organization?  (Other applications that may apply your terms to search or navigation or applications that are dependant on your metadata?)
         
        Seth
         

        Seth Earley

        Earley & Associates, Inc

        781-444-0287

        781-820-8080 cell

        Next taxo conference call October 5th, 2 PM EDT
        "Auto Categorization and Automatic Taxonomy Generation"
        Registration and agenda at www.earley.com/events.htm

        Taxonomy Community of Practice

        http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/TaxoCoP/

        -----Original Message-----
        From: TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Beth G. Maser
        Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 1:43 PM
        To: TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [TaxoCoP] New Members

        Hi all-
         
        Yet another new member!  I am currently working on developing externally focused taxonomies.  We are a new recruiting website www.mkt10.com and our goal is to match job seekers to employers by skill sets and vice versa.  The skill sets are our taxonomies.  I would be very interested to see if anyone else is working on a project like this and how you are structuring it.
         
        Seth- How many people actually have taxonomies that are in use by thousands and deletions without proper mapping would influence at least that many outcomes?
         
        I look forward to hearing what everyone has to say!
         
        Beth Maser
        Taxonomist
         
      • Seth Earley
        On our last Taxonomy Community call, we had a couple of presenters from the data side. Danette McGilvray who spoke about data quality and R Todd Stephens who
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 2, 2005
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          On our last Taxonomy Community call, we had a couple of presenters from the data side.  Danette McGilvray who spoke about data quality and R Todd Stephens who spoke about metadata and taxonomies based on "consumer" behavior.  He also had a couple of slides that showed the relationship between metadata standards and taxonomy development.
           
          What was interesting to me was the diverse range of evaluations for the call.  Some people said it was great - just what they needed.  Others said it did not explain the relationship of taxonomies to enterprise metadata adequately. 
           
          I have never had so wide a range of feedback on a call.  I think part of this is due to the many interpretations of metadata and the role of metadata standards (or perhaps the broad range of definitions, applications, guidelines, etc).  And of course the term "taxonomy" is now substituting in people's minds for a wide range of problems and issues in an organization.  Content strategy and integration projects are now labeled "taxonomy" projects.  I think at their core they are taxonomy projects, but content strategy entails more than just taxonomy development. 
           
          So I think the challenge is we have two concepts that have a wide variety of interpretations by themselves and now we are asking how those  concepts are related.  The number of ways they are related are some factor of the number of ways they may each  be interpreted. 
           
          Does that make sense? 
           
          Seth
           

          Seth Earley

          Earley & Associates, Inc

          781-444-0287

          781-820-8080 cell

          Next taxo conference call October 5th, 2 PM EDT
          "Auto Categorization and Automatic Taxonomy Generation"
          Registration and agenda at www.earley.com/events.htm

          Taxonomy Community of Practice

          http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/TaxoCoP/

          -----Original Message-----
          From: TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of betty_farrell@...
          Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 11:16 AM
          To: TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [TaxoCoP] New Members

          Well, it is obvious to me that the two worlds do need to integrate somehow, but I haven’t had enough time yet to understand the unstructured arena.  Sadly, we continue to need to “sell” the need for information architecture even in the structured world.  That sales job is certainly being helped now by all the legal compliance that is required, but it still is a continual struggle that eats up valuable time...  

           

          Lately, I’ve been spending a lot of time with our Data Privacy Office.  I think we have made great progress there and feel confident that we have adequate controls on our structured information about individual employees, but I don’t believe that we can make the claim that we are totally in compliance if we don’t know whether there is sensitive data in unsecured files on PC and share drives, etc. (in violation of guidelines to managers…)  This is a major personal driver for me to understand more about the unstructured world, but I sure don’t have any answers yet about how it would all play together!

           


          From: TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Seth Earley
          Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 8:13 AM
          To: TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [TaxoCoP] New Members

           

          Hi Betty,

           

          Thanks and nice to have you. 

           

          Its god to see more data and information architecture people on the list.  Can you tell me how you  see the two worlds working together?  At the taxonomy Boot Camp in NY this week I asked if there were any information architects of data modelers and only one out of 200 people raised their hand.   At DAMA we are seeing more taxonomy interest.

           

          What are your thoughts?

           

          Seth

           

          Seth Earley

          Earley & Associates, Inc

          781-444-0287

          781-820-8080 cell

          Next taxo conference call October 5th, 2 PM EDT
          "Auto Categorization and Automatic Taxonomy Generation"
          Registration and agenda at www.earley.com/events.htm

          Taxonomy Community of Practice

          http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/TaxoCoP/

          -----Original Message-----
          From: TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of betty_farrell@...
          Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 9:24 AM
          To: TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [TaxoCoP] New Members

          Hi Seth,

           

          I am an Enterprise Architect for Agilent Technologies, with a main focus on data and metadata architecture.  I have spent the last few years implementing our Enterprise Architecture Repository, which describes the current state of our IT environment (applications, processes, technology, data).  We have really just reached a point where we can begin to look seriously at data architecture, concentrating first on areas that are required for legal compliance (i.e. Sarbanes-Oxley, HIPAA, Data Privacy, etc.).

           

          I attended the 1st Semantics Technology conference in San Francisco in March and got a very nice introduction to the “unstructured data world”, but I’m really still trying to come to grips with what is going on in a practical sense.  Listening in to these discussions is giving me some nice clues.

           

          Thanks,

          Betty

           


          From: TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of seth_earley
          Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 9:58 PM
          To: TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [TaxoCoP] New Members

           

          We've had a number of new members join.  Everyone puts something in
          the note to me in the list workpaced escribing what they do. But I
          don't actually post those here.

          Take a minute and put something along  the lines  and part of the
          project we worked
                                                                                
                                                                                
                               


           

        • Marcel van Mackelenbergh
          Hi Susan, I have tried to achieve reuse for many, many years. With very little success though. In summary, these directions have been successful: 1.
          Message 4 of 12 , Oct 3, 2005
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            Hi Susan,
             
            I have tried to achieve reuse for many, many years. With very little success though. In summary, these directions have been successful:
            1. Information Mapping: allows you to define information structures in a rigid way without losing author freedom
            2. DITA, (Darwin Information Typing Architecture, another Open Source project by IBM) seems to be made for implementing the Information Mapping concepts. For the fist time we have DTD's now with inheritance. Of course this greatly facilitates exchange of information and therefore reuse.
            3. Watch out with inlines (variables or domains in DITA). They are nice when you start but they are impossible to maintain
            4. Buy yourself a native XML DMS. Often DMS's require you to determine the chunk size before you reuse. However, what you need is to determine the chunk size when you reuse. There is a great dutch vendor X-Hive, that is now delivering the DMS for Boeing.
             
            Please let me know if you want on any of these issues a clarification.
             
            Marcel
             


            From: TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Susan Hensley
            Sent: vrijdag 30 september 2005 19:19
            To: TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [TaxoCoP] New Members

            Hi Seth and all,

            I am working on creating a metadata and content model
            to support content reuse across a financial web site.

            This implies a "vocabulary" for our xml document
            structure, as well as a real controlled vocab of
            products, services and topics that we'd like to be
            able to build to serve our content model use cases.
            Right now we have a few metadata fields with decent
            autopopulated values, and an implicit taxonomy in our
            folder structures.

            I am starting to become more of a "data modeler" as
            part of my Information Architect identity and it's
            very interesting - but requirements for *content* seem
            to me to be a little different than requirements for
            *data* and there is less information on how to
            translate those requirements into models, but then
            I've just begun to use UML models.

            Anyone else here working on similar issues?

            Tx,

            Susan

            --- Seth Earley <seth@...> wrote:

            > Try this again.
            >
            > My last note was cut off.
            >
            > As I said , we've had a number of new members join.
            >
            > When you join, you enter a short reason why you are
            > interested in the group
            > and some have told me who they are and what company
            > they are with.
            >
            > So perhaps I could encourage more of you to send a
            > brief introduction and
            > tell us something about the projects you are working
            > on.
            >
            > The goal is to know who our community is and to see
            > if people are working on
            > similar projects.  This way we have a better chance
            > of stimulating dialog.
            >
            > A lot of people are new to this and may be  hesitant
            > to post.  I encourage
            > you to simply tell us who you are and why you are
            > interested in the topic.
            >
            > Thanks!
            >
            >
            > Seth
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
            > Of seth_earley
            > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 11:58 PM
            > To: TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [TaxoCoP] New Members
            >
            >
            > We've had a number of new members join.  Everyone
            > puts something in
            > the note to me in the list workpaced escribing what
            > they do. But I
            > don't actually post those here.
            >
            >  Take a minute and put something along  the lines
            > and part of the
            > project we worked
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >

          • Marcel van Mackelenbergh
            Hi Beth, Personally I do not like when machines are thinking for me. I like it only when it is an extra possibility to see what the machine has found. For sure
            Message 5 of 12 , Oct 3, 2005
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              Hi Beth,
               
              Personally I do not like when machines are thinking for me. I like it only when it is an extra possibility to see what the machine has found.
               
              For sure I would recommend to use a faceted classification. This allows your target audience the freedom they need to browse through the data.
               
              I created a database with artists and companies. The purpose of the database was to bring the business and the artists into contact with each other. We used the database on a giant touch screen at a fair. Users could make a print of their selection and use the print to find each other.
               
              We were suprised by the categories that were important to most of the users. We thought that aspects of art (conflict or harmony, art as a means or art for its own sake, etc.) would be important. However, the location and the job role appeared to be much more important. So, don't think for your target audience, you're likely to be wrong.
               
              You can find the database (in dutch!!) on:
               
              cheers,
               
              Marcel
               
            • Susan Hensley
              Hi Seth, We are gleaning a certain amount of Metadata from the folder structure, which we have cleaned up quite a bit to reflect a basic level of product
              Message 6 of 12 , Oct 3, 2005
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                Hi Seth,

                We are gleaning a certain amount of Metadata from the
                folder structure, which we have cleaned up quite a bit
                to reflect a basic level of product information and
                groupings. This may not be extensible in the future
                however, as we need to start populating some content
                with multiple values.

                We also have only a general sense of what we want our
                end state to be, and figuring out the right level of
                granularity in content, and the right amount of reuse
                will be discovered only after we try things out, and
                that's always a difficult sell.

                My sense of how data differs from content rests on the
                complexity of how content can be consumed differently
                in different contexts. Those differences can be
                modeled, but at some point the complexity seems to
                require more work than seems reasonable to maintain.
                While you can build crosswalks and mappings to
                translate data into another schema, translating
                content doesn't really work that way.

                Narrative flow and language tuning are more difficult
                beasts to modify stategically than data formats or
                changing table structures. Content writers have more
                at stake than a mainframe repository; they also know
                more about why the content was built in a certain way.
                Information mapping, as Marcel suggested, is a good
                model, but we are a very de-centralized organization
                and its unlikely something that controlled could ever
                be fully implemented. We spend a lot of time trying
                to get people to voluntarily follow standards.

                Historically Metadata has not been respected by the
                business proponents, but now we have the developers
                clamoring for it as a solution to content reuse
                issues.
                There's an opportunity to finally start implementing
                useful taxonomies - and a danger that it will be
                oversold as a solution to any content issue.

                Susan

                --- Seth Earley <seth@...> wrote:

                > Hi Susan,
                >
                > How are you auto populating your metadata? That is
                > always a challenge. Too
                > many fields and it becomes too cumbersome. Other
                > than date and author and
                > the easy ones, what else have you populated
                > metadata?
                >
                > How are you finding the content and data
                > requirements differing? I have
                > been talking to data modelers and taxo people about
                > the need to collaborate.
                > Have you been pulling those types of teams together
                > or are you finding
                > separate initiatives?
                >
                > I know there have been others facing the same
                > challenges here. Other
                > experiences?
                >
                > Seth
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
                > Of Susan Hensley
                > Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 1:19 PM
                > To: TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [TaxoCoP] New Members
                >
                >
                > Hi Seth and all,
                >
                > I am working on creating a metadata and content
                > model
                > to support content reuse across a financial web
                > site.
                >
                > This implies a "vocabulary" for our xml document
                > structure, as well as a real controlled vocab of
                > products, services and topics that we'd like to be
                > able to build to serve our content model use cases.
                > Right now we have a few metadata fields with decent
                > autopopulated values, and an implicit taxonomy in
                > our
                > folder structures.
                >
                > I am starting to become more of a "data modeler" as
                > part of my Information Architect identity and it's
                > very interesting - but requirements for *content*
                > seem
                > to me to be a little different than requirements for
                > *data* and there is less information on how to
                > translate those requirements into models, but then
                > I've just begun to use UML models.
                >
                > Anyone else here working on similar issues?
                >
                > Tx,
                >
                > Susan
                >
                > --- Seth Earley <seth@...> wrote:
                >
                > > Try this again.
                > >
                > > My last note was cut off.
                > >
                > > As I said , we've had a number of new members
                > join.
                > >
                > > When you join, you enter a short reason why you
                > are
                > > interested in the group
                > > and some have told me who they are and what
                > company
                > > they are with.
                > >
                > > So perhaps I could encourage more of you to send a
                > > brief introduction and
                > > tell us something about the projects you are
                > working
                > > on.
                > >
                > > The goal is to know who our community is and to
                > see
                > > if people are working on
                > > similar projects. This way we have a better
                > chance
                > > of stimulating dialog.
                > >
                > > A lot of people are new to this and may be
                > hesitant
                > > to post. I encourage
                > > you to simply tell us who you are and why you are
                > > interested in the topic.
                > >
                > > Thanks!
                > >
                > >
                > > Seth
                > >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com
                > > [mailto:TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
                > > Of seth_earley
                > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 11:58 PM
                > > To: TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: [TaxoCoP] New Members
                > >
                > >
                > > We've had a number of new members join. Everyone
                > > puts something in
                > > the note to me in the list workpaced escribing
                > what
                > > they do. But I
                > > don't actually post those here.
                > >
                > > Take a minute and put something along the lines
                > > and part of the
                > > project we worked
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >


                ************************************
                Susan Hensley
                metta_4@...
                ************************************
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