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Re: {Disarmed} Non-text tagging [WAS Re: [TaxoCoP] Re: tagging done by content authors vs professional indexers]

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  • Christine Connors
    Hi - I m not quite sure we re talking apples to apples here. But I hear what you re saying; and for current retrieval mechanisms the text containers attached
    Message 1 of 24 , Mar 31, 2009
      Hi -

      I'm not quite sure we're talking apples to apples here. But I hear what you're saying; and for current retrieval mechanisms the text containers attached to non-text resources are critical. Indexing pixels, as it were is far from everyday technoglogy.

      It's always bugged me that we so often place the metadata in files separate from the resource being indexed - what happens if those links break? It's not like a book, where we could glue in or write in the metadata. Just another random thought.

      Regards,
      Christine


      From: David Riecks <david@...>
      To: TaxoCoP@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 2:13:16 AM
      Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Non-text tagging [WAS Re: [TaxoCoP] Re: tagging done by content authors vs professional indexers]

      At 08:41 AM 3/28/2009, Christine Connors wrote:

      >We all immediately presumed that we were talking about tagging with
      >WORDS. What if I want to tag with images or sounds (or, when the
      >technology is available to the masses, odors/aromas) ? We can do
      >geo-coding, but that's really just another form of tagging with a string.

      Christine:

      Actually I didn't presume text only.... but did assume their might be
      text within a container (PDF, Powerpoint, Illustrations) , in addition
      to images, video, and other things besides text documents.

      I work with software that understands that a WAV audio file that has
      the same name as a proprietary RAW or JPEG file from a digital camera
      needs to stay with that file, but haven't ever tried to create
      situations where I then tag that audio and images with a text document.

      There are specific needs (such as with model and property releases)
      where I like to be able to create a relationship between the release
      and the image file with those people or buildings within the frame.
      However that can usually be accomplished, by giving the printed
      release (or a digital facsimile of it) a number that either is the
      same as the image, or tied the number of the release to one of the
      metadata fields in the image.

      Embedding the GPS coordinates within the actual JPEG or in the RAW
      file (or a sidecar) isn't that difficult, however, it's much more
      useful if that information is translated (reverse geo-encoded) , to
      determine the precise location, city, state, country, etc., as those
      are much easier to search.

      Images, and other media objects that don't have lots of easily
      available text require a significantly different approach to tagging
      or indexing, as images aren't made of text, they are made of pixels.

      David

      --
      David Riecks (that's "i" before "e", but the "e" is silent)
      Need Keywords for your database? Get the Controlled Vocabulary Solution
      http://controlledvo cabulary. com/products/ support for a dozen of the
      most popular imaging applications from Adobe Bridge to Photo Mechanic.


    • David Riecks
      ... Christine: With many proprietary file formats, the use of sidecar files is a simple way to share textual information about a non-text resource. As you
      Message 2 of 24 , Apr 3, 2009
        At 07:42 PM 3/31/2009, Christine Connors wrote:
        It's always bugged me that we so often place the metadata in files separate from the resource being indexed - what happens if those links break? It's not like a book, where we could glue in or write in the metadata. Just another random thought.

        Christine:

        With many proprietary file formats, the use of sidecar files is a simple way to share textual information about a non-text resource. As you point out, there can be serious consequences if this is the only place the data is stored, and the sidecar file is lost. However, with some non-text resources or specific file formats, this isn't the only way.

        I have worked with digital images since the early 90's and use standards promoted by the International Press Telecommunication Council (IPTC) to store a wide variety of information within the file itself. There are a wide variety of professional image management tools that can both read and write metadata using two IPTC Standards, including Photoshop, Bridge, Lightroom, Expression Media, Photo Mechanic, Breeze Browser, IDimager, Extensis Portfolio, and Canto's MediaDex and Cumulus. In addition, there are freeware tools like Irfanview, XnView, and even Google's Picasa.

        There are limits to the number of fields in the older standard, but the new version is based on XMP and the latest version of the schema contains fields to represent information deemed essential by the Press, as well as Stock Photography, and Cultural Heritage communities.

        You can read more about these IPTC standards at: http://www.iptc.org/cms/site/index.html;jsessionid=aJ6G0by3_-Nc?channel=CH0089

        I am currently project leader for the Stock Artists Alliance, Photo Metadata Project ( http://www.stockartistsalliance.org/photometadata-project), which will be launching a website and a 10 city tour to promote the use of embedded photo metadata. I'll post information about that schedule as soon as it's availalble for those that may be interested.

        Hope that helps.

        David

        --
        David Riecks  (that's "i" before "e", but the "e" is silent)
        Need Keywords for your database? Get the Controlled Vocabulary Solution
        http://controlledvocabulary.com/products/ support for a dozen of the
        most popular imaging applications from Adobe Bridge to Photo Mechanic.

      • Torrie Hodgson
        Sometimes we need to index content that is owned by someone else that we can t force into using our indexing practices, or it resides on servers that don t
        Message 3 of 24 , Apr 6, 2009
          Sometimes we need to index content that is owned by someone else that we can't force into using our indexing practices, or it resides on servers that don't have room for additional metadata (schema or disk space). There are probably even more similar scenarios in addition to indexing non-textual content where the metadata needs to reside outside the indexed file itself.
           
          The tricky part is staying informed about where the indexed content resides, what the data schema is, and getting informed whenever there are changes planned. (The key word is "planned" so that the solution can be put into place before something breaks.)
           
          Thanks,
          Torrie Thomas

          On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 8:09 PM, David Riecks <david@...> wrote:

          At 07:42 PM 3/31/2009, Christine Connors wrote:

          It's always bugged me that we so often place the metadata in files separate from the resource being indexed - what happens if those links break? It's not like a book, where we could glue in or write in the metadata. Just another random thought.

          Christine:

          With many proprietary file formats, the use of sidecar files is a simple way to share textual information about a non-text resource. As you point out, there can be serious consequences if this is the only place the data is stored, and the sidecar file is lost. However, with some non-text resources or specific file formats, this isn't the only way.

          I have worked with digital images since the early 90's and use standards promoted by the International Press Telecommunication Council (IPTC) to store a wide variety of information within the file itself. There are a wide variety of professional image management tools that can both read and write metadata using two IPTC Standards, including Photoshop, Bridge, Lightroom, Expression Media, Photo Mechanic, Breeze Browser, IDimager, Extensis Portfolio, and Canto's MediaDex and Cumulus. In addition, there are freeware tools like Irfanview, XnView, and even Google's Picasa.

          There are limits to the number of fields in the older standard, but the new version is based on XMP and the latest version of the schema contains fields to represent information deemed essential by the Press, as well as Stock Photography, and Cultural Heritage communities.

          You can read more about these IPTC standards at: http://www.iptc.org/cms/site/index.html;jsessionid=aJ6G0by3_-Nc?channel=CH0089

          I am currently project leader for the Stock Artists Alliance, Photo Metadata Project ( http://www.stockartistsalliance.org/photometadata-project), which will be launching a website and a 10 city tour to promote the use of embedded photo metadata. I'll post information about that schedule as soon as it's availalble for those that may be interested.

          Hope that helps.

          David

          --
          David Riecks  (that's "i" before "e", but the "e" is silent)
          Need Keywords for your database? Get the Controlled Vocabulary Solution
          http://controlledvocabulary.com/products/ support for a dozen of the
          most popular imaging applications from Adobe Bridge to Photo Mechanic.




          --
          Torrie Thomas
          torriehodgson@...
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