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what would a taoist do?

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  • solitude4life
    Hello fellow Daoist! What would a daoist do in a situation like: 1. If he s in pain, like severe physical pain. For example, there is no cure in his sickness
    Message 1 of 7 , Nov 16, 2007
      Hello fellow Daoist!

      What would a daoist do in a situation like:

      1. If he's in pain, like severe physical pain. For example, there is
      no cure in his sickness and his organs are, bit by bit and one by
      one, painfully getting infected. And it will go on for 5 years until
      he finally dies?

      2. When his love one is being kidnapped by terrorist for 2 months
      let's say. Isn't that a mental torture for a person? How can a
      daoist apply non-worry or non-detachment during these times? how can
      he apply the non-action to save his love one?

      3. Energy sapping parents. For example, you are living in with your
      parents, but the problem is, they always saps your energy by
      discouraging you, not belieiving in you, talk shit about you and all
      those mentally stressing things. Does a daoist move to another
      house?
      or does he stay and just smile and endure every sharp word they say?

      Any reply will be highly appreciated and valued. Thank you so much!

      Ernest
    • zisixi
      ... Be there while he could. After a certain point, you can t, so you move on. ... Be there while you can. ... Be somewhere (else) that you can be (exist). In
      Message 2 of 7 , Nov 16, 2007
        --- In TaoTalk@yahoogroups.com, "solitude4life" <solitude4life@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello fellow Daoist!
        >
        > What would a daoist do in a situation like:
        >
        > 1. If he's in pain, like severe physical pain. For example, there is
        > no cure in his sickness and his organs are, bit by bit and one by
        > one, painfully getting infected. And it will go on for 5 years until
        > he finally dies?

        Be there while he could. After a certain point, you can't, so you
        move on.

        > 2. When his love one is being kidnapped by terrorist for 2 months
        > let's say. Isn't that a mental torture for a person? How can a
        > daoist apply non-worry or non-detachment during these times? how can
        > he apply the non-action to save his love one?

        Be there while you can.

        > 3. Energy sapping parents. For example, you are living in with your
        > parents, but the problem is, they always saps your energy by
        > discouraging you, not belieiving in you, talk shit about you and all
        > those mentally stressing things. Does a daoist move to another
        > house?
        > or does he stay and just smile and endure every sharp word they say?

        Be somewhere (else) that you can be (exist).

        In the Seven Immortals, many of them actually took flight to avoid the
        encumberment of their families. There are times (like the one
        described) when this might be appropriate.

        > Any reply will be highly appreciated and valued. Thank you so much!
        >
        > Ernest
        >
      • Stephanie
        Hi Ernest, 1. If he s in pain, like severe physical pain. For example, there is no cure in his sickness and his organs are, bit by bit and one by one,
        Message 3 of 7 , Nov 17, 2007
          Hi Ernest,
           
          1. If he's in pain, like severe physical pain. For example, there is
          no cure in his sickness and his organs are, bit by bit and one by
          one, painfully getting infected. And it will go on for 5 years until
          he finally dies?
           
          There is a difference between dealing with pain and dealing with incurable illness. Do what you can for the pain, but the goal is to accept change as inevitable and understand that you are simply evolving into something else. One of Chuang Tzu's stories is about a man who finds a branch growing out of his elbow. He accepts it as just another aspect of his ever changing life.
           
          2. When his love one is being kidnapped by terrorist for 2 months
          let's say. Isn't that a mental torture for a person? How can a
          daoist apply non-worry or non-detachment during these times? how can
          he apply the non-action to save his love one?
          In general the Daoist tries to live an unimportant life that would preclude attracting the attention of a terrorist.
           
          3. Energy sapping parents. For example, you are living in with your
          parents, but the problem is, they always saps your energy by
          discouraging you, not belieiving in you, talk shit about you and all
          those mentally stressing things. Does a daoist move to another
          house?
          or does he stay and just smile and endure every sharp word they say?
           
          How old is this Daoist? Under the age of majority the individual probably has to smile and endure until he is old enough to move on. If he is old enough, then certainly it is time to move on.
           
          Regards,
          Dobador

        • Patrick Burrows
          ... Be miserable and eventually die? What could anyone do in that situation? You d like to think someone would have the grace to appreciate the few remaining
          Message 4 of 7 , Nov 17, 2007
            On Nov 17, 2007 12:31 AM, solitude4life <solitude4life@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Hello fellow Daoist!
            >
            > What would a daoist do in a situation like:
            >
            > 1. If he's in pain, like severe physical pain. For example, there is
            > no cure in his sickness and his organs are, bit by bit and one by
            > one, painfully getting infected. And it will go on for 5 years until
            > he finally dies?

            Be miserable and eventually die? What could anyone do in that
            situation? You'd like to think someone would have the grace to
            appreciate the few remaining good days. You'd like to think they would
            maintain a positive attitude and be an inspiration to his friends and
            family.

            But that is more a thing of character than of being a daoist. If you
            are in severe physical pain you probably don't have any problem with
            being present in the moment and experiencing life to its fullest.
            Unfortunately, that experience will pretty much suck. There is
            sometimes a detachment of perspective or disassociation that comes
            through in much daoist writing. Almost an over analysis of a
            situation. And then a desire to get back to the point where they can
            stop analyzing and just experience the moment. Well... our friend in
            permanent pain probably doesn't have that problem.


            >
            > 2. When his love one is being kidnapped by terrorist for 2 months
            > let's say. Isn't that a mental torture for a person? How can a
            > daoist apply non-worry or non-detachment during these times? how can
            > he apply the non-action to save his love one?
            >

            Are you wondering if a daoist could be Rambo and bust in and kill all
            the kidnappers? What do you mean by trying to save his loved one? Odds
            are someone would neither be in a position to, nor have the training
            and skill to effect a rescue A daoist would leave something like that
            to the professionals.

            On the other hand, if there is some far fetched situation where a
            daoist could effect a rescue, there are many aspects of taoism that
            might be useful. You mention non-action. But non-action doesn't mean
            sitting there and doing nothing. It means acting naturally and
            correctly in accord with the situation. Letting any action flow from a
            place of stillness. And, often, knowing the right point to put forth
            the least amount of effort to acheive the maximum effect. So, those
            principles would give the daoist the patience necessary to not try and
            rush things to a conclusion, but to move with the situation and
            recognize its fluidity and changes from moment to moment. Knowing the
            I Ching here might even help a daoist try and guide events. Though
            probably not.


            > 3. Energy sapping parents. For example, you are living in with your
            > parents, but the problem is, they always saps your energy by
            > discouraging you, not belieiving in you, talk shit about you and all
            > those mentally stressing things. Does a daoist move to another
            > house?
            > or does he stay and just smile and endure every sharp word they say?
            >

            LOL! Parents are tough. They put a lot of their time and energy into
            raising you. Years and years and years of their life. They sacrificed
            a lot to give you a life. They didn't go out with their friends, they
            didn't travel when they wanted to. They couldn't afford the things
            they otherwise could have. And because of all that they sacrificed for
            you, they now have a great deal of expectations for what you will do.
            They want to see that enormous self-sacrificing investment they put
            into you pay off.

            But the only way it will pay off is if you become your own person and
            not simply a mirror of them. Because, despite what it may seem like,
            or what even they may know, what they really want to see is for you to
            become a well balanced, happy and fulfilled person. But if they don't
            see you becoming that, or they don't see it happening in the way they
            expect it to, imagine how disappointing that is to them. And
            disappointing is far too mild a word. Imagine the crushing depression
            they would feel thinking they wasted the last 20 or so years of their
            life and they aren't going to get the pay off they want.

            A daoist would understand this perspective and talk to his parents
            about it. He might want to try and help them understand the man he is
            right now and who he is becoming. ...but his parents won't care. Those
            will all just be words. So he will have to show them. And he has to
            show them by pushing them away and forcing them to give him some
            space. Let him screw up. Let him fix those mistakes himself. And
            eventually, over time, maybe as much as ten years or more, they will
            come to understand. If it means moving out, then move out. If it means
            ignoring them, then ignore it.

            But, above all, you cannot ever let their negative attitudes affect
            you. It isn't their problem that their attitude affects yours. It is
            your problem and you need to solve it. Move if you must, but having
            the inner calm and confidence to ignore those comments and do it
            anyway is even better.





            > Any reply will be highly appreciated and valued. Thank you so much!
            >
            > Ernest
            >
            >



            --
            --
            Patrick Burrows
            http://www.CleverHumans.com
          • Rick Matz
            Long ago, near the frontier lived an old man. One day he found his horse missing. It was said that the horse was seen running outside the border of the
            Message 5 of 7 , Nov 18, 2007
              Long ago, near the frontier lived an old man. One day he found his
              horse missing. It was said that the horse was seen running outside the
              border of the country. The neighbors came to comfort him for the
              unfortunate loss. But the old man was unexpectedly calm and said, "It
              doesn't matter; it may not be a bad event, on the contrary, I think it
              can be a good one."

              One night the old man heard some noise of horses and got up to see. To
              his surprise, he saw another beautiful horse as well as his own. It
              was clear that his horse had brought a companion home. Hearing the
              news, the neighbors all came to say congratulation on his good luck.
              At the greetings, however, the old man was very calm and thoughtful.
              He added, "It is true that I got a new horse for nothing, but it is
              hard to say whether it is good or bad. It may be an unlucky thing."

              What he said was testified right. The son of the old man was very fond
              of the horse brought home, and one day, when he was riding the horse,
              he fell down from the horseback and terribly hurt in his left leg.
              Since then he was never able to walk freely. "Nothing serious," the
              old man said, "perhaps it is going to be good."

              A year later, many of the youth there were recruited to fight in a war
              and most of them died. The son of the old man was absolved from the
              obligation for his disability, so he escaped death.

              -- An old Chinese folk story

              Chapter 50 of the Dao De Jing:

              50. Death
              Men flow into life, and ebb into death.

              Some are filled with life;
              Some are empty with death;
              Some hold fast to life, and thereby perish,
              For life is an abstraction.

              Those who are filled with life
              Need not fear tigers and rhinos in the wilds,
              Nor wear armour and shields in battle;
              The rhinoceros finds no place in them for its horn,
              The tiger no place for its claw,
              The soldier no place for a weapon,
              For death finds no place in them.

              Best Regards,

              Rick
              http://CookDingsKitchen.blogspot.com

              --- In TaoTalk@yahoogroups.com, "solitude4life" <solitude4life@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello fellow Daoist!
              >
              > What would a daoist do in a situation like:
              >
              > 1. If he's in pain, like severe physical pain. For example, there is
              > no cure in his sickness and his organs are, bit by bit and one by
              > one, painfully getting infected. And it will go on for 5 years until
              > he finally dies?
              >
              > 2. When his love one is being kidnapped by terrorist for 2 months
              > let's say. Isn't that a mental torture for a person? How can a
              > daoist apply non-worry or non-detachment during these times? how can
              > he apply the non-action to save his love one?
              >
              > 3. Energy sapping parents. For example, you are living in with your
              > parents, but the problem is, they always saps your energy by
              > discouraging you, not belieiving in you, talk shit about you and all
              > those mentally stressing things. Does a daoist move to another
              > house?
              > or does he stay and just smile and endure every sharp word they say?
              >
              > Any reply will be highly appreciated and valued. Thank you so much!
              >
              > Ernest
              >
            • bradford hatcher
              ... The source of that story is the Huainanzi, c 139 bce, soon (finally!!) to be translated in full. Other versions may be found by Googling Sei Weng, the name
              Message 6 of 7 , Nov 18, 2007
                >
                > -- An old Chinese folk story
                >

                The source of that story is the Huainanzi, c 139 bce,
                soon (finally!!) to be translated in full.
                Other versions may be found by Googling Sei Weng,
                the name of the farmer in the story
              • lisa
                ... Hello Ernest, ... Is this you? I know that there are several methods to reduce pain available. If this is you, or someone you love, seek pain relief.
                Message 7 of 7 , Nov 18, 2007
                  --- In TaoTalk@yahoogroups.com, "solitude4life" <solitude4life@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello fellow Daoist!

                  Hello Ernest,

                  >
                  > What would a daoist do in a situation like:
                  >
                  > 1. If he's in pain, like severe physical pain. For example, there is
                  > no cure in his sickness and his organs are, bit by bit and one by
                  > one, painfully getting infected. And it will go on for 5 years until
                  > he finally dies?

                  Is this you? I know that there are several methods to reduce pain
                  available. If this is you, or someone you love, seek pain relief.
                  Five years of agony is too long for any person to suffer.

                  >
                  > 2. When his love one is being kidnapped by terrorist for 2 months
                  > let's say. Isn't that a mental torture for a person? How can a
                  > daoist apply non-worry or non-detachment during these times? how can
                  > he apply the non-action to save his love one?

                  For the kidnapped loved one, try to keep your own energy strong, and
                  send some to the loved one.

                  >
                  > 3. Energy sapping parents. For example, you are living in with your
                  > parents, but the problem is, they always saps your energy by
                  > discouraging you, not belieiving in you, talk shit about you and all
                  > those mentally stressing things. Does a daoist move to another
                  > house?
                  > or does he stay and just smile and endure every sharp word they say?

                  Have you heard of where yin changes to yang and yang changes to yin?
                  A couple of things could happen with parents such as you describe.
                  One is that the child will get so sick of it it will become
                  intolerable and the child will leave. Another is that the child will
                  eventually begin to believe the parents and lose the spirit and energy
                  needed to break free. The way of things is to morph from this to that
                  in the wink of an eye. All it will take is an epiphany on the part of
                  the child to get the gears in motion. Things are poised for a change
                  I see. Miracles could happen too: the parents could realize they
                  need to help the child get a place of their own and act as a support
                  system, or they can realize they are lucky to have such a fine son or
                  daughter and start treating their child better.

                  rgds,
                  lisa

                  >
                  > Any reply will be highly appreciated and valued. Thank you so much!
                  >
                  > Ernest
                  >
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