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Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Antietam Magazine

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  • NJ Rebel
    James, Perryville did not really accomplish much but it _did_ keep Kentucky out of the Confederate camp permanently. However, the EP is what truly changed the
    Message 1 of 25 , Aug 22, 2002
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      James,

      Perryville did not really accomplish much but it _did_ keep
      Kentucky out of the Confederate camp permanently. However, the EP
      is what truly changed the entire strategic course of the war.

      The summer and early fall of 1862 was the true high water mark of
      the Confederate States of America.

      Gettysburg was merely the high water mark as far as
      offensive-defensive operations of the Army of Northern Virginia
      was to be concerned. To be fair to the CSA and ANV, at that point
      the war could still have gone in favor of the South in terms of a
      negotiated settlement. A victory for Lee and the ANV at
      Gettysburg on clearly Yankee soil following the disaster at
      Chancellorsville atop the disaster at Fredericksburg would have
      sent the Lincoln administration reeling, IMHO, and might even
      have brought the British Empire in to the fray as making it
      clearly known to the US Government that a negotiated settlement
      of peace in favor of the Confederate States was now in order.

      Your humble servant,
      Gerry Mayers
      Pvt., CS Signals,
      Longstreet's Corps

      A Proud American by Birth, Southern by Choice!

      "I know of no fitter resting-place for a soldier than the field
      on which he has nobly laid down his life." --General Robert
      Edward Lee

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "james2044" <james2044@...>
      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 8:52 PM
      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Antietam Magazine


      > IMHO, Antietam is the start of the AOP putting together an
      effective
      > command group and the docturn to use it's weapons. Gettysburg
      is the
      > graduation battle.
      >
      > The CSA never seemed to grow but stayed with what had worked
      thru the
      > summer of '62. With Perryville and the Emancepation
      Proclamation the
      > war is lost.
      >
      >
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    • james2044
      Gary, Keeping Kentucky in the Union was IMHO much . Perryville, is just over looked as an important battle, as is most all of the Heartland . We see the
      Message 2 of 25 , Aug 23, 2002
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        Gary,

        Keeping Kentucky in the Union was IMHO "much". Perryville, is just
        over looked as an important battle, as is most all of
        the "Heartland". We see the East and Grant but little else.

        I don't know that a British goverment, comming in for the CSA, would
        had lasted after the EP. Britian had taken the lead in stopping the
        slave trade and that would have been a major change.

        James
      • TR Livesey
        Isn t Lincoln supposed to have said, I hope God is on my side --- but I must have Kentucky ? I don t know what the deal is, but there seems to be some kind of
        Message 3 of 25 , Aug 23, 2002
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          Isn't Lincoln supposed to have said, "I hope God is on my side --- but
          I must have Kentucky"?

          I don't know what the deal is, but there seems to be some kind of
          conspiracy to ignore Perryville. My own theory is that both sides
          screwed up so incredibly badly, there is a long standing desire
          to pretend it didn't happen.

          The leadership screwed up, that is. The foot solders fought well--
          given the circumstances--particually the Confederates. If you
          thought McClellan had problems, at least he never missed a battle
          sipping tea at his headquarters.

          I finally got out to Perryville this summer. As luck would have it,
          there was a pretty solid rain pouring when I got there, but I wasn't
          going to let that bother me. So, I left my wife in the visitor's center,
          and set out to do the battlefield 'double quick'. Now, I'm in pretty good
          shape, wasn't encumbered by equipment, so I didn't think it would
          be too difficult. Wrong! The first few stops of the tour route are
          laid out basically by the route of the Confederate attack. Let me
          say, after a short while I was huffing and puffing. What you have
          is a series of ridges, from which the Confederates drove the Union
          troops off the first, then off the next, etc. Quite an amazing
          feat of physical endurance.

          This is a great battlefield, in pristine condition. The major landmarks
          of the battle are basically these hills and ridges (called 'knobs'),
          and, unlike woodlots and cornfields, have not been removed, so
          the battlefield can be explored today in almost the same condition
          it was in at the time. Highly recommended.

          Regards,
          TR Livesey
          tlivesey@...

          james2044 wrote:
          >
          > Gary,
          >
          > Keeping Kentucky in the Union was IMHO "much". Perryville, is just
          > over looked as an important battle, as is most all of
          > the "Heartland". We see the East and Grant but little else.
          >
          > I don't know that a British goverment, comming in for the CSA, would
          > had lasted after the EP. Britian had taken the lead in stopping the
          > slave trade and that would have been a major change.
          >
          > James
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • rotbaron@aol.com
          For those interested in the current Antietam Commemorative Issue that I mentioned, here are some of the articles: To Antietam Creek - D. Scott Hartwig Lost
          Message 4 of 25 , Aug 23, 2002
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            For those interested in the current "Antietam Commemorative Issue" that I
            mentioned, here are some of the articles:

            To Antietam Creek - D. Scott Hartwig
            Lost and Found: SO No. 191 - Stephen Sears
            War on South Mountain - Mark Grimsley
            Carnage in a Cornfield - Robert Cheeks
            'Dear Union:' A Federal Artilleryman at Antietam - John Hennessy
            Readers' Guide To Antietam - Thomas Clemens
            Horrors of Bloody Lane - B. Keith Toney
            Whay Did Burnside Cross the Bridge - Thomas Clemens
            They Never Had a Chance (16th Conn Inf) - Lesley Gordon
            Defeat or Victory? (South perspectives on Antietam) - Gary Gallagher
            An Interview with John Howard (Superintendent of battlefield)
            Preservation (SHAF's great efforts) - Robert Hodge

            Tom Clemens' article notes that readers can anticipate (in future) Scott
            Hartwig's multivolume study of the Maryland Campaign.

            If you are desperate to find a copy, my local store has several on shelf. For
            cost (4.99 + .30 tax) plus US postage, I get you a copy and send it off ASAP.

            Tom Shay
            rotbaron@...


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • NJ Rebel
            James; I believe your post was to me; my nickname can be seen below. As to Perryville, yes, it was equally an important battle in the Western theater at almost
            Message 5 of 25 , Aug 25, 2002
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              James;

              I believe your post was to me; my nickname can be seen below.

              As to Perryville, yes, it was equally an important battle in the
              Western theater at almost the same time as Confederate forces
              were attempting to carve out a Confederate Southwest (Arizona,
              New Mexico and Southern California areas).

              1862 between August and October was the true High Tide of the
              Confederacy!

              As to the British Government, etc. had Lee won at Antietam,
              Lincoln would have been unable to issue the EP and the British
              Government might have been able to use its not inconsiderable
              influence to arrange a negotiated peace. (Which is what the
              Confederacy really wanted after all!)

              Your humble servant,
              Gerry Mayers
              Pvt., CS Signals,
              Longstreet's Corps

              A Proud American by Birth, Southern by Choice!

              "I know of no fitter resting-place for a soldier than the field
              on which he has nobly laid down his life." --General Robert
              Edward Lee

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "james2044" <james2044@...>
              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 5:05 AM
              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Antietam Magazine


              > Gary,
              >
              > Keeping Kentucky in the Union was IMHO "much". Perryville, is
              just
              > over looked as an important battle, as is most all of
              > the "Heartland". We see the East and Grant but little else.
              >
              > I don't know that a British goverment, comming in for the CSA,
              would
              > had lasted after the EP. Britian had taken the lead in
              stopping the
              > slave trade and that would have been a major change.
              >
              > James
              >
              >
              > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
              Sponsor ---------------------~-->
              > 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now
              > http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/mG3HAA/GmiolB/TM
              > ---------------------------------------------------------------
              ------~->
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >
            • james2044
              Gerry, I agree if Lee had won , when he didn t and the EP was issued the British Goverment could/would not work for the CSA. James
              Message 6 of 25 , Aug 26, 2002
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                Gerry,
                I agree if "Lee had won", when he didn't and the EP was issued the
                British Goverment could/would not work for the CSA.

                James
              • Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                If you thought McClellan had problems, at least he never missed a battle sipping tea at his headquarters. Ahem....
                Message 7 of 25 , Aug 26, 2002
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                  If you
                  thought McClellan had problems, at least he never missed a battle
                  sipping tea at his headquarters.


                  Ahem....
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