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Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield's route

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  • TR Livesey
    If you mean their commander to be Mansfield, whatever problems he may have encountered on Sept 17, lack of training was not one of them. Mansfield graduated
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 12, 2002
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      If you mean 'their commander' to be Mansfield, whatever
      problems he may have encountered on Sept 17, lack of
      training was not one of them. Mansfield graduated 2nd
      in his class at West Point, served in the Mexican
      War and earned three brevets.

      It is rather unfortunate that his last act - mistaking
      enemy troops for his own - has come to be what he is
      most remembered for. The truth is he was coming on to
      a very chaotic battlefield, and Hooker apparently
      made little or no attempt to give any information or
      direction to the XII Corps commander.

      TR Livesey

      tlivesey@...
      http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam

      Ron Church wrote:
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "NJ Rebel" <gerry1952@...>
      > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 11:31 PM
      > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield's route
      >
      > > Ron,
      > >
      > > The XII Corps was largely composed of nine month regiments which
      > > had been hurriedly raised to meet the move of the ANV into
      > > Maryland.
      > >
      > > There realistically wasn't enough time for them to be properly
      > > drilled and etc. Some units, IIRC, the 13th NJ had to learn how
      > > to load while fighting!!!!!!
      > >
      > > Your humble servant,
      > > Gerry Mayers
      > > Pvt., CS Signals,
      > > Longstreet's Corps
      >
      > Gerry,
      >
      > All true. It might also be said there wasn't enough time to train their
      > commander either.
      >
      > Ron
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    • NJ Rebel
      Todd, Paula, Ron and all, Correct me if I am mistaken, but I seem to recall reading at one point or another that by the time Mansfield actually had his XII
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 14, 2002
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        Todd, Paula, Ron and all,

        Correct me if I am mistaken, but I seem to recall reading at one
        point or another that by the time Mansfield actually had his XII
        Corps on the field Joe Hooker had already been wounded and was,
        unfortunately, out of the tactical situation and thereby unable
        to inform Mansfield of the actual situation.

        Your humble servant,
        Gerry Mayers
        Pvt., CS Signals,
        Longstreet's Corps

        A Proud American by Birth, Southern by Choice!

        "I know of no fitter resting-place for a soldier than the field
        on which he has nobly laid down his life." --General Robert
        Edward Lee

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "TR Livesey" <tlivesey@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 12:08 AM
        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield's route


        > If you mean 'their commander' to be Mansfield, whatever
        > problems he may have encountered on Sept 17, lack of
        > training was not one of them. Mansfield graduated 2nd
        > in his class at West Point, served in the Mexican
        > War and earned three brevets.
        >
        > It is rather unfortunate that his last act - mistaking
        > enemy troops for his own - has come to be what he is
        > most remembered for. The truth is he was coming on to
        > a very chaotic battlefield, and Hooker apparently
        > made little or no attempt to give any information or
        > direction to the XII Corps commander.
        >
        > TR Livesey
        >
        > tlivesey@...
        > http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam
        >
        > Ron Church wrote:
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: "NJ Rebel" <gerry1952@...>
        > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        > > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 11:31 PM
        > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield's route
        > >
        > > > Ron,
        > > >
        > > > The XII Corps was largely composed of nine month regiments
        which
        > > > had been hurriedly raised to meet the move of the ANV into
        > > > Maryland.
        > > >
        > > > There realistically wasn't enough time for them to be
        properly
        > > > drilled and etc. Some units, IIRC, the 13th NJ had to learn
        how
        > > > to load while fighting!!!!!!
        > > >
        > > > Your humble servant,
        > > > Gerry Mayers
        > > > Pvt., CS Signals,
        > > > Longstreet's Corps
        > >
        > > Gerry,
        > >
        > > All true. It might also be said there wasn't enough time to
        train their
        > > commander either.
        > >
        > > Ron
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
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      • Ron Church
        Gerry, I m not sure just how much information Hooker had conveyed to Mansfield, perhaps some of the others can shed more light on this. But I do have some
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 14, 2002
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          Gerry,

          I'm not sure just how much information Hooker had conveyed to Mansfield,
          perhaps some of the others can shed more light on this. But I do have some
          information regarding timing that might be of interest; BG Alpheus Williams
          (now commanding XII Corps) states in his report "While the deployment was
          going on, and before the leading regiments were fully engaged, it was
          reported to me that the veteran and distinguished commander of the corps was
          mortally wounded. I at once reported to Major-General Hooker on the field,
          took from him such direction as the pressing exigencies would permit, and
          hastened to make a disposition of the corps to meet them".

          Williams doesn't mention anything about Hooker having been wounded. From the
          NPS maps, Mansfield reached the "deployment" area at about 8:00 so
          Mansfield's wounding may have happened between 8:00 and 8:30.

          Hooker in his report states, "While my wound was being examined by the
          surgeon, Sumner's corps appeared on the field on my immediate right, and I
          have an indistinct recollection of having seen Sedgwick's division pass to
          the front." Since Sumner entered the West Woods at about 9:00 it would be
          possible that the two commanders were wounded within the same half hour.

          Given the "exigencies" Williams referred to, unless Hooker and Mansfield met
          or communicated earlier, it doesn't look like there was much time for
          coordination at the corps level once the battle started.

          Ron Church
          Manchester MD


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "NJ Rebel" <gerry1952@...>
          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 9:06 PM
          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield's route


          > Todd, Paula, Ron and all,
          >
          > Correct me if I am mistaken, but I seem to recall reading at one
          > point or another that by the time Mansfield actually had his XII
          > Corps on the field Joe Hooker had already been wounded and was,
          > unfortunately, out of the tactical situation and thereby unable
          > to inform Mansfield of the actual situation.
          >
          > Your humble servant,
          > Gerry Mayers
          > Pvt., CS Signals,
          > Longstreet's Corps
        • NJ Rebel
          Ron: IIRC, once Hooker s units reached the area of The Cornfield, the orchestrated plan that Mac wanted Hooker to perform on the left flank of the Confedere
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 14, 2002
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            Ron:

            IIRC, once Hooker's units reached the area of The Cornfield, the
            orchestrated "plan" that Mac wanted Hooker to perform on the left
            flank of the Confedere line went to pieces. The battle started to
            take on a life of its own.......

            Your humble servant,
            Gerry Mayers
            Pvt., CS Signals,
            Longstreet's Corps

            A Proud American by Birth, Southern by Choice!

            "I know of no fitter resting-place for a soldier than the field
            on which he has nobly laid down his life." --General Robert
            Edward Lee

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Ron Church" <rchurch@...>
            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 11:27 PM
            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield's route


            > Gerry,
            >
            > I'm not sure just how much information Hooker had conveyed to
            Mansfield,
            > perhaps some of the others can shed more light on this. But I
            do have some
            > information regarding timing that might be of interest; BG
            Alpheus Williams
            > (now commanding XII Corps) states in his report "While the
            deployment was
            > going on, and before the leading regiments were fully engaged,
            it was
            > reported to me that the veteran and distinguished commander of
            the corps was
            > mortally wounded. I at once reported to Major-General Hooker
            on the field,
            > took from him such direction as the pressing exigencies would
            permit, and
            > hastened to make a disposition of the corps to meet them".
            >
            > Williams doesn't mention anything about Hooker having been
            wounded. From the
            > NPS maps, Mansfield reached the "deployment" area at about 8:00
            so
            > Mansfield's wounding may have happened between 8:00 and 8:30.
            >
            > Hooker in his report states, "While my wound was being examined
            by the
            > surgeon, Sumner's corps appeared on the field on my immediate
            right, and I
            > have an indistinct recollection of having seen Sedgwick's
            division pass to
            > the front." Since Sumner entered the West Woods at about 9:00
            it would be
            > possible that the two commanders were wounded within the same
            half hour.
            >
            > Given the "exigencies" Williams referred to, unless Hooker and
            Mansfield met
            > or communicated earlier, it doesn't look like there was much
            time for
            > coordination at the corps level once the battle started.
            >
            > Ron Church
            > Manchester MD
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "NJ Rebel" <gerry1952@...>
            > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 9:06 PM
            > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield's route
            >
            >
            > > Todd, Paula, Ron and all,
            > >
            > > Correct me if I am mistaken, but I seem to recall reading at
            one
            > > point or another that by the time Mansfield actually had his
            XII
            > > Corps on the field Joe Hooker had already been wounded and
            was,
            > > unfortunately, out of the tactical situation and thereby
            unable
            > > to inform Mansfield of the actual situation.
            > >
            > > Your humble servant,
            > > Gerry Mayers
            > > Pvt., CS Signals,
            > > Longstreet's Corps
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
            Sponsor ---------------------~-->
            > Save on REALTOR Fees
            > http://us.click.yahoo.com/Xw80LD/h1ZEAA/Ey.GAA/GmiolB/TM
            > ---------------------------------------------------------------
            ------~->
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
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