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Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield's route

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  • Ron Church
    ... From: NJ Rebel To: Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 11:31 PM Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield s
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 11, 2002
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "NJ Rebel" <gerry1952@...>
      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 11:31 PM
      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield's route


      > Ron,
      >
      > The XII Corps was largely composed of nine month regiments which
      > had been hurriedly raised to meet the move of the ANV into
      > Maryland.
      >
      > There realistically wasn't enough time for them to be properly
      > drilled and etc. Some units, IIRC, the 13th NJ had to learn how
      > to load while fighting!!!!!!
      >
      > Your humble servant,
      > Gerry Mayers
      > Pvt., CS Signals,
      > Longstreet's Corps

      Gerry,

      All true. It might also be said there wasn't enough time to train their
      commander either.

      Ron
    • TR Livesey
      If you mean their commander to be Mansfield, whatever problems he may have encountered on Sept 17, lack of training was not one of them. Mansfield graduated
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 12, 2002
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        If you mean 'their commander' to be Mansfield, whatever
        problems he may have encountered on Sept 17, lack of
        training was not one of them. Mansfield graduated 2nd
        in his class at West Point, served in the Mexican
        War and earned three brevets.

        It is rather unfortunate that his last act - mistaking
        enemy troops for his own - has come to be what he is
        most remembered for. The truth is he was coming on to
        a very chaotic battlefield, and Hooker apparently
        made little or no attempt to give any information or
        direction to the XII Corps commander.

        TR Livesey

        tlivesey@...
        http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam

        Ron Church wrote:
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "NJ Rebel" <gerry1952@...>
        > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 11:31 PM
        > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield's route
        >
        > > Ron,
        > >
        > > The XII Corps was largely composed of nine month regiments which
        > > had been hurriedly raised to meet the move of the ANV into
        > > Maryland.
        > >
        > > There realistically wasn't enough time for them to be properly
        > > drilled and etc. Some units, IIRC, the 13th NJ had to learn how
        > > to load while fighting!!!!!!
        > >
        > > Your humble servant,
        > > Gerry Mayers
        > > Pvt., CS Signals,
        > > Longstreet's Corps
        >
        > Gerry,
        >
        > All true. It might also be said there wasn't enough time to train their
        > commander either.
        >
        > Ron
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • NJ Rebel
        Todd, Paula, Ron and all, Correct me if I am mistaken, but I seem to recall reading at one point or another that by the time Mansfield actually had his XII
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 14, 2002
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          Todd, Paula, Ron and all,

          Correct me if I am mistaken, but I seem to recall reading at one
          point or another that by the time Mansfield actually had his XII
          Corps on the field Joe Hooker had already been wounded and was,
          unfortunately, out of the tactical situation and thereby unable
          to inform Mansfield of the actual situation.

          Your humble servant,
          Gerry Mayers
          Pvt., CS Signals,
          Longstreet's Corps

          A Proud American by Birth, Southern by Choice!

          "I know of no fitter resting-place for a soldier than the field
          on which he has nobly laid down his life." --General Robert
          Edward Lee

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "TR Livesey" <tlivesey@...>
          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 12:08 AM
          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield's route


          > If you mean 'their commander' to be Mansfield, whatever
          > problems he may have encountered on Sept 17, lack of
          > training was not one of them. Mansfield graduated 2nd
          > in his class at West Point, served in the Mexican
          > War and earned three brevets.
          >
          > It is rather unfortunate that his last act - mistaking
          > enemy troops for his own - has come to be what he is
          > most remembered for. The truth is he was coming on to
          > a very chaotic battlefield, and Hooker apparently
          > made little or no attempt to give any information or
          > direction to the XII Corps commander.
          >
          > TR Livesey
          >
          > tlivesey@...
          > http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam
          >
          > Ron Church wrote:
          > >
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: "NJ Rebel" <gerry1952@...>
          > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          > > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 11:31 PM
          > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield's route
          > >
          > > > Ron,
          > > >
          > > > The XII Corps was largely composed of nine month regiments
          which
          > > > had been hurriedly raised to meet the move of the ANV into
          > > > Maryland.
          > > >
          > > > There realistically wasn't enough time for them to be
          properly
          > > > drilled and etc. Some units, IIRC, the 13th NJ had to learn
          how
          > > > to load while fighting!!!!!!
          > > >
          > > > Your humble servant,
          > > > Gerry Mayers
          > > > Pvt., CS Signals,
          > > > Longstreet's Corps
          > >
          > > Gerry,
          > >
          > > All true. It might also be said there wasn't enough time to
          train their
          > > commander either.
          > >
          > > Ron
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
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          >
          >
          >
        • Ron Church
          Gerry, I m not sure just how much information Hooker had conveyed to Mansfield, perhaps some of the others can shed more light on this. But I do have some
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 14, 2002
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            Gerry,

            I'm not sure just how much information Hooker had conveyed to Mansfield,
            perhaps some of the others can shed more light on this. But I do have some
            information regarding timing that might be of interest; BG Alpheus Williams
            (now commanding XII Corps) states in his report "While the deployment was
            going on, and before the leading regiments were fully engaged, it was
            reported to me that the veteran and distinguished commander of the corps was
            mortally wounded. I at once reported to Major-General Hooker on the field,
            took from him such direction as the pressing exigencies would permit, and
            hastened to make a disposition of the corps to meet them".

            Williams doesn't mention anything about Hooker having been wounded. From the
            NPS maps, Mansfield reached the "deployment" area at about 8:00 so
            Mansfield's wounding may have happened between 8:00 and 8:30.

            Hooker in his report states, "While my wound was being examined by the
            surgeon, Sumner's corps appeared on the field on my immediate right, and I
            have an indistinct recollection of having seen Sedgwick's division pass to
            the front." Since Sumner entered the West Woods at about 9:00 it would be
            possible that the two commanders were wounded within the same half hour.

            Given the "exigencies" Williams referred to, unless Hooker and Mansfield met
            or communicated earlier, it doesn't look like there was much time for
            coordination at the corps level once the battle started.

            Ron Church
            Manchester MD


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "NJ Rebel" <gerry1952@...>
            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 9:06 PM
            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield's route


            > Todd, Paula, Ron and all,
            >
            > Correct me if I am mistaken, but I seem to recall reading at one
            > point or another that by the time Mansfield actually had his XII
            > Corps on the field Joe Hooker had already been wounded and was,
            > unfortunately, out of the tactical situation and thereby unable
            > to inform Mansfield of the actual situation.
            >
            > Your humble servant,
            > Gerry Mayers
            > Pvt., CS Signals,
            > Longstreet's Corps
          • NJ Rebel
            Ron: IIRC, once Hooker s units reached the area of The Cornfield, the orchestrated plan that Mac wanted Hooker to perform on the left flank of the Confedere
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 14, 2002
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              Ron:

              IIRC, once Hooker's units reached the area of The Cornfield, the
              orchestrated "plan" that Mac wanted Hooker to perform on the left
              flank of the Confedere line went to pieces. The battle started to
              take on a life of its own.......

              Your humble servant,
              Gerry Mayers
              Pvt., CS Signals,
              Longstreet's Corps

              A Proud American by Birth, Southern by Choice!

              "I know of no fitter resting-place for a soldier than the field
              on which he has nobly laid down his life." --General Robert
              Edward Lee

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Ron Church" <rchurch@...>
              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 11:27 PM
              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield's route


              > Gerry,
              >
              > I'm not sure just how much information Hooker had conveyed to
              Mansfield,
              > perhaps some of the others can shed more light on this. But I
              do have some
              > information regarding timing that might be of interest; BG
              Alpheus Williams
              > (now commanding XII Corps) states in his report "While the
              deployment was
              > going on, and before the leading regiments were fully engaged,
              it was
              > reported to me that the veteran and distinguished commander of
              the corps was
              > mortally wounded. I at once reported to Major-General Hooker
              on the field,
              > took from him such direction as the pressing exigencies would
              permit, and
              > hastened to make a disposition of the corps to meet them".
              >
              > Williams doesn't mention anything about Hooker having been
              wounded. From the
              > NPS maps, Mansfield reached the "deployment" area at about 8:00
              so
              > Mansfield's wounding may have happened between 8:00 and 8:30.
              >
              > Hooker in his report states, "While my wound was being examined
              by the
              > surgeon, Sumner's corps appeared on the field on my immediate
              right, and I
              > have an indistinct recollection of having seen Sedgwick's
              division pass to
              > the front." Since Sumner entered the West Woods at about 9:00
              it would be
              > possible that the two commanders were wounded within the same
              half hour.
              >
              > Given the "exigencies" Williams referred to, unless Hooker and
              Mansfield met
              > or communicated earlier, it doesn't look like there was much
              time for
              > coordination at the corps level once the battle started.
              >
              > Ron Church
              > Manchester MD
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "NJ Rebel" <gerry1952@...>
              > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 9:06 PM
              > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield's route
              >
              >
              > > Todd, Paula, Ron and all,
              > >
              > > Correct me if I am mistaken, but I seem to recall reading at
              one
              > > point or another that by the time Mansfield actually had his
              XII
              > > Corps on the field Joe Hooker had already been wounded and
              was,
              > > unfortunately, out of the tactical situation and thereby
              unable
              > > to inform Mansfield of the actual situation.
              > >
              > > Your humble servant,
              > > Gerry Mayers
              > > Pvt., CS Signals,
              > > Longstreet's Corps
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
              Sponsor ---------------------~-->
              > Save on REALTOR Fees
              > http://us.click.yahoo.com/Xw80LD/h1ZEAA/Ey.GAA/GmiolB/TM
              > ---------------------------------------------------------------
              ------~->
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >
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