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Mansfield's route

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  • Pa128th@aol.com
    In a message dated 7/10/02 11:30:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rchurch@qis.net ... Ron: You can buy it in book format: The CW Journals of John Mead Gould, ed
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 10, 2002
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      In a message dated 7/10/02 11:30:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rchurch@...
      writes:


      > I am not familiar with "... J.M.Gould" Do you know where I
      > might find them?
      >

      Ron:

      You can buy it in book format: The CW Journals of John Mead Gould, ed by Wm.
      B. Jordan. ISBN: 0-935523-63-4 It is a pricy book - IIRC I paid $50.00 a
      couple of years ago - but for my research on the 128th, it was worth it.

      Paula






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ron Church
      ... From: NJ Rebel To: Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 11:31 PM Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield s
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 11, 2002
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        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "NJ Rebel" <gerry1952@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 11:31 PM
        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield's route


        > Ron,
        >
        > The XII Corps was largely composed of nine month regiments which
        > had been hurriedly raised to meet the move of the ANV into
        > Maryland.
        >
        > There realistically wasn't enough time for them to be properly
        > drilled and etc. Some units, IIRC, the 13th NJ had to learn how
        > to load while fighting!!!!!!
        >
        > Your humble servant,
        > Gerry Mayers
        > Pvt., CS Signals,
        > Longstreet's Corps

        Gerry,

        All true. It might also be said there wasn't enough time to train their
        commander either.

        Ron
      • TR Livesey
        If you mean their commander to be Mansfield, whatever problems he may have encountered on Sept 17, lack of training was not one of them. Mansfield graduated
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 12, 2002
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          If you mean 'their commander' to be Mansfield, whatever
          problems he may have encountered on Sept 17, lack of
          training was not one of them. Mansfield graduated 2nd
          in his class at West Point, served in the Mexican
          War and earned three brevets.

          It is rather unfortunate that his last act - mistaking
          enemy troops for his own - has come to be what he is
          most remembered for. The truth is he was coming on to
          a very chaotic battlefield, and Hooker apparently
          made little or no attempt to give any information or
          direction to the XII Corps commander.

          TR Livesey

          tlivesey@...
          http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam

          Ron Church wrote:
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "NJ Rebel" <gerry1952@...>
          > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 11:31 PM
          > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield's route
          >
          > > Ron,
          > >
          > > The XII Corps was largely composed of nine month regiments which
          > > had been hurriedly raised to meet the move of the ANV into
          > > Maryland.
          > >
          > > There realistically wasn't enough time for them to be properly
          > > drilled and etc. Some units, IIRC, the 13th NJ had to learn how
          > > to load while fighting!!!!!!
          > >
          > > Your humble servant,
          > > Gerry Mayers
          > > Pvt., CS Signals,
          > > Longstreet's Corps
          >
          > Gerry,
          >
          > All true. It might also be said there wasn't enough time to train their
          > commander either.
          >
          > Ron
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • NJ Rebel
          Todd, Paula, Ron and all, Correct me if I am mistaken, but I seem to recall reading at one point or another that by the time Mansfield actually had his XII
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 14, 2002
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            Todd, Paula, Ron and all,

            Correct me if I am mistaken, but I seem to recall reading at one
            point or another that by the time Mansfield actually had his XII
            Corps on the field Joe Hooker had already been wounded and was,
            unfortunately, out of the tactical situation and thereby unable
            to inform Mansfield of the actual situation.

            Your humble servant,
            Gerry Mayers
            Pvt., CS Signals,
            Longstreet's Corps

            A Proud American by Birth, Southern by Choice!

            "I know of no fitter resting-place for a soldier than the field
            on which he has nobly laid down his life." --General Robert
            Edward Lee

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "TR Livesey" <tlivesey@...>
            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 12:08 AM
            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield's route


            > If you mean 'their commander' to be Mansfield, whatever
            > problems he may have encountered on Sept 17, lack of
            > training was not one of them. Mansfield graduated 2nd
            > in his class at West Point, served in the Mexican
            > War and earned three brevets.
            >
            > It is rather unfortunate that his last act - mistaking
            > enemy troops for his own - has come to be what he is
            > most remembered for. The truth is he was coming on to
            > a very chaotic battlefield, and Hooker apparently
            > made little or no attempt to give any information or
            > direction to the XII Corps commander.
            >
            > TR Livesey
            >
            > tlivesey@...
            > http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam
            >
            > Ron Church wrote:
            > >
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: "NJ Rebel" <gerry1952@...>
            > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            > > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 11:31 PM
            > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield's route
            > >
            > > > Ron,
            > > >
            > > > The XII Corps was largely composed of nine month regiments
            which
            > > > had been hurriedly raised to meet the move of the ANV into
            > > > Maryland.
            > > >
            > > > There realistically wasn't enough time for them to be
            properly
            > > > drilled and etc. Some units, IIRC, the 13th NJ had to learn
            how
            > > > to load while fighting!!!!!!
            > > >
            > > > Your humble servant,
            > > > Gerry Mayers
            > > > Pvt., CS Signals,
            > > > Longstreet's Corps
            > >
            > > Gerry,
            > >
            > > All true. It might also be said there wasn't enough time to
            train their
            > > commander either.
            > >
            > > Ron
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
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            >
            >
            >
          • Ron Church
            Gerry, I m not sure just how much information Hooker had conveyed to Mansfield, perhaps some of the others can shed more light on this. But I do have some
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 14, 2002
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              Gerry,

              I'm not sure just how much information Hooker had conveyed to Mansfield,
              perhaps some of the others can shed more light on this. But I do have some
              information regarding timing that might be of interest; BG Alpheus Williams
              (now commanding XII Corps) states in his report "While the deployment was
              going on, and before the leading regiments were fully engaged, it was
              reported to me that the veteran and distinguished commander of the corps was
              mortally wounded. I at once reported to Major-General Hooker on the field,
              took from him such direction as the pressing exigencies would permit, and
              hastened to make a disposition of the corps to meet them".

              Williams doesn't mention anything about Hooker having been wounded. From the
              NPS maps, Mansfield reached the "deployment" area at about 8:00 so
              Mansfield's wounding may have happened between 8:00 and 8:30.

              Hooker in his report states, "While my wound was being examined by the
              surgeon, Sumner's corps appeared on the field on my immediate right, and I
              have an indistinct recollection of having seen Sedgwick's division pass to
              the front." Since Sumner entered the West Woods at about 9:00 it would be
              possible that the two commanders were wounded within the same half hour.

              Given the "exigencies" Williams referred to, unless Hooker and Mansfield met
              or communicated earlier, it doesn't look like there was much time for
              coordination at the corps level once the battle started.

              Ron Church
              Manchester MD


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "NJ Rebel" <gerry1952@...>
              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 9:06 PM
              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield's route


              > Todd, Paula, Ron and all,
              >
              > Correct me if I am mistaken, but I seem to recall reading at one
              > point or another that by the time Mansfield actually had his XII
              > Corps on the field Joe Hooker had already been wounded and was,
              > unfortunately, out of the tactical situation and thereby unable
              > to inform Mansfield of the actual situation.
              >
              > Your humble servant,
              > Gerry Mayers
              > Pvt., CS Signals,
              > Longstreet's Corps
            • NJ Rebel
              Ron: IIRC, once Hooker s units reached the area of The Cornfield, the orchestrated plan that Mac wanted Hooker to perform on the left flank of the Confedere
              Message 6 of 11 , Jul 14, 2002
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                Ron:

                IIRC, once Hooker's units reached the area of The Cornfield, the
                orchestrated "plan" that Mac wanted Hooker to perform on the left
                flank of the Confedere line went to pieces. The battle started to
                take on a life of its own.......

                Your humble servant,
                Gerry Mayers
                Pvt., CS Signals,
                Longstreet's Corps

                A Proud American by Birth, Southern by Choice!

                "I know of no fitter resting-place for a soldier than the field
                on which he has nobly laid down his life." --General Robert
                Edward Lee

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Ron Church" <rchurch@...>
                To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 11:27 PM
                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield's route


                > Gerry,
                >
                > I'm not sure just how much information Hooker had conveyed to
                Mansfield,
                > perhaps some of the others can shed more light on this. But I
                do have some
                > information regarding timing that might be of interest; BG
                Alpheus Williams
                > (now commanding XII Corps) states in his report "While the
                deployment was
                > going on, and before the leading regiments were fully engaged,
                it was
                > reported to me that the veteran and distinguished commander of
                the corps was
                > mortally wounded. I at once reported to Major-General Hooker
                on the field,
                > took from him such direction as the pressing exigencies would
                permit, and
                > hastened to make a disposition of the corps to meet them".
                >
                > Williams doesn't mention anything about Hooker having been
                wounded. From the
                > NPS maps, Mansfield reached the "deployment" area at about 8:00
                so
                > Mansfield's wounding may have happened between 8:00 and 8:30.
                >
                > Hooker in his report states, "While my wound was being examined
                by the
                > surgeon, Sumner's corps appeared on the field on my immediate
                right, and I
                > have an indistinct recollection of having seen Sedgwick's
                division pass to
                > the front." Since Sumner entered the West Woods at about 9:00
                it would be
                > possible that the two commanders were wounded within the same
                half hour.
                >
                > Given the "exigencies" Williams referred to, unless Hooker and
                Mansfield met
                > or communicated earlier, it doesn't look like there was much
                time for
                > coordination at the corps level once the battle started.
                >
                > Ron Church
                > Manchester MD
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "NJ Rebel" <gerry1952@...>
                > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 9:06 PM
                > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Mansfield's route
                >
                >
                > > Todd, Paula, Ron and all,
                > >
                > > Correct me if I am mistaken, but I seem to recall reading at
                one
                > > point or another that by the time Mansfield actually had his
                XII
                > > Corps on the field Joe Hooker had already been wounded and
                was,
                > > unfortunately, out of the tactical situation and thereby
                unable
                > > to inform Mansfield of the actual situation.
                > >
                > > Your humble servant,
                > > Gerry Mayers
                > > Pvt., CS Signals,
                > > Longstreet's Corps
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
                Sponsor ---------------------~-->
                > Save on REALTOR Fees
                > http://us.click.yahoo.com/Xw80LD/h1ZEAA/Ey.GAA/GmiolB/TM
                > ---------------------------------------------------------------
                ------~->
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
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