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RE: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March

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  • Thomas G. Clemens
    Thanks Mike. I am always skeptical of regimental histories, too much post-war influence on the writes. I do not doubt that some guys were wearing captured
    Message 1 of 13 , Jun 27 4:10 PM
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      Thanks Mike. I am always skeptical of regimental histories, too much post-war influence on the writes. I do not doubt that some guys were wearing captured clothing, but I doubt enough of them to fool anyone to think they were a Union unit. I recall somewhere, no time to look now, a CS soldier saying unlike others, he only took underclothing, not wanting to be shot mistakenly. Good stuff!

      ________________________________
      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Jim Rosebrock [pointsalines@...]
      Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 5:55 AM
      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March



      Michael,
      Are William Morris's letters found in a book on the 27th North Carolina?
      Regards
      Jim Rosebrock

      ________________________________
      From: Michael Hardy <mchardy@...<mailto:mchardy%40michaelchardy.com>>
      To: "TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com<mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>" <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com<mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>>
      Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 10:25 AM
      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March



      Teej - Capt.
      William Morris, commanding the 37th North Carolina Troops, Branch's brigade,
      Light Division, writes home on September 23, 1862: ��we went to harpers Ferry & captured
      Twelve Thousand yankeys and all of there arms & stores. they surrendered without Much fighting. We had a fine time at harpers fery. Got Plenty Shugar & Coffee, in fact all
      most any thing we could wish, clothing, etc.�
      He writes again
      on September 28, 1862: �I have Clothes plenty to Doo Me all winter as we all
      Got what we wanted at Harpers Ferry.�
      There are
      probably other examples in other letter sets. I just happen to be more familiar
      with the 37th NCT.
      Kindest Regards,
      Michael
      North Carolina and the Civil War blog
      2010-11 North Carolina Historian of the Year

      ________________________________

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • MikeL49NYVI@aol.com
      I have a semi-related story: We have been researching the 1st Texas for a CSA impression, and have ben getting a lot of background material from the 1st Texas
      Message 2 of 13 , Jun 27 7:19 PM
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        I have a semi-related story:
        We have been researching the 1st Texas for a CSA impression, and have
        ben getting a lot of background material from the 1st Texas in Houston. While
        discussing uniform coats, he told me that the 1st received new Richmond
        Depot III coats from England, which were cadet gray, after Gettysburg. It
        seems that there was so much blue in them, that at Chickamaugua, their own
        friends from Longstreet's Corps mistook them for Federals, and fired a couple
        volleys at them.
        So, it was not uncommon to mistake friend from foe, in any battle. Even
        when wearing the right uniform.

        Mike Lavis


        In a message dated 6/27/2012 7:12:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
        tgclemens@... writes:

        Thanks Mike. I am always skeptical of regimental histories, too much
        post-war influence on the writes. I do not doubt that some guys were wearing
        captured clothing, but I doubt enough of them to fool anyone to think they
        were a Union unit. I recall somewhere, no time to look now, a CS soldier
        saying unlike others, he only took underclothing, not wanting to be shot
        mistakenly. Good stuff!

        ________________________________
        From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] on
        behalf of Jim Rosebrock [pointsalines@...]
        Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 5:55 AM
        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March



        Michael,
        Are William Morris's letters found in a book on the 27th North Carolina?
        Regards
        Jim Rosebrock

        ________________________________
        From: Michael Hardy
        <mchardy@...<mailto:mchardy%40michaelchardy.com>>
        To: "TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com<mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>"
        <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com<mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>>
        Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 10:25 AM
        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March



        Teej - Capt.
        William Morris, commanding the 37th North Carolina Troops, Branch's
        brigade,
        Light Division, writes home on September 23, 1862: “…we went to harpers
        Ferry & captured
        Twelve Thousand yankeys and all of there arms & stores. they surrendered
        without Much fighting. We had a fine time at harpers fery. Got Plenty
        Shugar & Coffee, in fact all
        most any thing we could wish, clothing, etc.”
        He writes again
        on September 28, 1862: “I have Clothes plenty to Doo Me all winter as we
        all
        Got what we wanted at Harpers Ferry.”
        There are
        probably other examples in other letter sets. I just happen to be more
        familiar
        with the 37th NCT.
        Kindest Regards,
        Michael
        North Carolina and the Civil War blog
        2010-11 North Carolina Historian of the Year

        ________________________________

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        ------------------------------------


        Yahoo! Groups Links





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Thomas G. Clemens
        This is exactly how Longstreet got wounded. Micah Jenkins SC brigade had new dark gray jackets at Wilderness. Coming with Longstreet s flank attack they
        Message 3 of 13 , Jun 27 7:20 PM
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          This is exactly how Longstreet got wounded. Micah Jenkins' SC brigade had new dark gray jackets at Wilderness. Coming with Longstreet's flank attack they were fired into by their own men, who mistook them for Yankees. Longstreet was wounded severely, but Micah Jenkins was killed.
          ________________________________
          From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of MikeL49NYVI@... [MikeL49NYVI@...]
          Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 10:19 PM
          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March



          I have a semi-related story:
          We have been researching the 1st Texas for a CSA impression, and have
          ben getting a lot of background material from the 1st Texas in Houston. While
          discussing uniform coats, he told me that the 1st received new Richmond
          Depot III coats from England, which were cadet gray, after Gettysburg. It
          seems that there was so much blue in them, that at Chickamaugua, their own
          friends from Longstreet's Corps mistook them for Federals, and fired a couple
          volleys at them.
          So, it was not uncommon to mistake friend from foe, in any battle. Even
          when wearing the right uniform.

          Mike Lavis


          In a message dated 6/27/2012 7:12:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
          tgclemens@...<mailto:tgclemens%40hagerstowncc.edu> writes:

          Thanks Mike. I am always skeptical of regimental histories, too much
          post-war influence on the writes. I do not doubt that some guys were wearing
          captured clothing, but I doubt enough of them to fool anyone to think they
          were a Union unit. I recall somewhere, no time to look now, a CS soldier
          saying unlike others, he only took underclothing, not wanting to be shot
          mistakenly. Good stuff!

          ________________________________
          From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com<mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com> [TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com<mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>] on
          behalf of Jim Rosebrock [pointsalines@...<mailto:pointsalines%40yahoo.com>]
          Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 5:55 AM
          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com<mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March

          Michael,
          Are William Morris's letters found in a book on the 27th North Carolina?
          Regards
          Jim Rosebrock

          ________________________________
          From: Michael Hardy
          <mchardy@...<mailto:mchardy%40michaelchardy.com><mailto:mchardy%40michaelchardy.com>>
          To: "TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com<mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>"
          <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com<mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>>
          Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 10:25 AM
          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March

          Teej - Capt.
          William Morris, commanding the 37th North Carolina Troops, Branch's
          brigade,
          Light Division, writes home on September 23, 1862: ��we went to harpers
          Ferry & captured
          Twelve Thousand yankeys and all of there arms & stores. they surrendered
          without Much fighting. We had a fine time at harpers fery. Got Plenty
          Shugar & Coffee, in fact all
          most any thing we could wish, clothing, etc.�
          He writes again
          on September 28, 1862: �I have Clothes plenty to Doo Me all winter as we
          all
          Got what we wanted at Harpers Ferry.�
          There are
          probably other examples in other letter sets. I just happen to be more
          familiar
          with the 37th NCT.
          Kindest Regards,
          Michael
          North Carolina and the Civil War blog
          2010-11 North Carolina Historian of the Year

          ________________________________

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • G E Mayers
          Mike; I thought Depot III uniforms were not issued until 1864 at the earliest? Gerry ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          Message 4 of 13 , Jun 27 8:17 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            Mike;

            I thought Depot III uniforms were not issued until 1864 at the earliest?

            Gerry

            -----Original Message-----
            From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of MikeL49NYVI@...
            Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 10:19 PM
            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March



            I have a semi-related story:
            We have been researching the 1st Texas for a CSA impression, and have
            ben getting a lot of background material from the 1st Texas in Houston. While
            discussing uniform coats, he told me that the 1st received new Richmond
            Depot III coats from England, which were cadet gray, after Gettysburg. It
            seems that there was so much blue in them, that at Chickamaugua, their own
            friends from Longstreet's Corps mistook them for Federals, and fired a couple
            volleys at them.
            So, it was not uncommon to mistake friend from foe, in any battle. Even
            when wearing the right uniform.

            Mike Lavis


            In a message dated 6/27/2012 7:12:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
            tgclemens@... writes:

            Thanks Mike. I am always skeptical of regimental histories, too much
            post-war influence on the writes. I do not doubt that some guys were wearing
            captured clothing, but I doubt enough of them to fool anyone to think they
            were a Union unit. I recall somewhere, no time to look now, a CS soldier
            saying unlike others, he only took underclothing, not wanting to be shot
            mistakenly. Good stuff!

            ________________________________
            From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] on
            behalf of Jim Rosebrock [pointsalines@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 5:55 AM
            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March

            Michael,
            Are William Morris's letters found in a book on the 27th North Carolina?
            Regards
            Jim Rosebrock

            ________________________________
            From: Michael Hardy
            <mchardy@...<mailto:mchardy%40michaelchardy.com>>
            To: "TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com<mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>"
            <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com<mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>>
            Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 10:25 AM
            Subject: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March

            Teej - Capt.
            William Morris, commanding the 37th North Carolina Troops, Branch's
            brigade,
            Light Division, writes home on September 23, 1862: “…we went to harpers
            Ferry & captured
            Twelve Thousand yankeys and all of there arms & stores. they surrendered
            without Much fighting. We had a fine time at harpers fery. Got Plenty
            Shugar & Coffee, in fact all
            most any thing we could wish, clothing, etc.”
            He writes again
            on September 28, 1862: “I have Clothes plenty to Doo Me all winter as we
            all
            Got what we wanted at Harpers Ferry.”
            There are
            probably other examples in other letter sets. I just happen to be more
            familiar
            with the 37th NCT.
            Kindest Regards,
            Michael
            North Carolina and the Civil War blog
            2010-11 North Carolina Historian of the Year

            ________________________________

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            ------------------------------------

            Yahoo! Groups Links

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • troyacool@yahoo.com
            Gerry, I don t want to put words in anyone s mouth but I recall Jerry Coates regretting (in a way) creating that nomenclature as the whole thing was a lot more
            Message 5 of 13 , Jun 27 8:28 PM
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              Gerry,
              I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth but I recall Jerry Coates regretting (in a way) creating that nomenclature as the whole thing was a lot more fluid than the "type" system has become in modern ideas.
              "Blue Grey English" cloth starts coming in the spring of 63.
              And I believe there are extant sample of Blue trowsers, both Kersey and jeans, cut in the "Richmond style". But Ikd have to check with better sources.
              Troy
              Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

              -----Original Message-----
              From: "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
              Sender: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 23:17:05
              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              Reply-To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March

              Mike;

              I thought Depot III uniforms were not issued until 1864 at the earliest?

              Gerry

              -----Original Message-----
              From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of MikeL49NYVI@...
              Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 10:19 PM
              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March



              I have a semi-related story:
              We have been researching the 1st Texas for a CSA impression, and have
              ben getting a lot of background material from the 1st Texas in Houston. While
              discussing uniform coats, he told me that the 1st received new Richmond
              Depot III coats from England, which were cadet gray, after Gettysburg. It
              seems that there was so much blue in them, that at Chickamaugua, their own
              friends from Longstreet's Corps mistook them for Federals, and fired a couple
              volleys at them.
              So, it was not uncommon to mistake friend from foe, in any battle. Even
              when wearing the right uniform.

              Mike Lavis


              In a message dated 6/27/2012 7:12:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
              tgclemens@... writes:

              Thanks Mike. I am always skeptical of regimental histories, too much
              post-war influence on the writes. I do not doubt that some guys were wearing
              captured clothing, but I doubt enough of them to fool anyone to think they
              were a Union unit. I recall somewhere, no time to look now, a CS soldier
              saying unlike others, he only took underclothing, not wanting to be shot
              mistakenly. Good stuff!

              ________________________________
              From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] on
              behalf of Jim Rosebrock [pointsalines@...]
              Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 5:55 AM
              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March

              Michael,
              Are William Morris's letters found in a book on the 27th North Carolina?
              Regards
              Jim Rosebrock

              ________________________________
              From: Michael Hardy
              <mchardy@...<mailto:mchardy%40michaelchardy.com>>
              To: "TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com<mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>"
              <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com<mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>>
              Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 10:25 AM
              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March

              Teej - Capt.
              William Morris, commanding the 37th North Carolina Troops, Branch's
              brigade,
              Light Division, writes home on September 23, 1862: “…we went to harpers
              Ferry & captured
              Twelve Thousand yankeys and all of there arms & stores. they surrendered
              without Much fighting. We had a fine time at harpers fery. Got Plenty
              Shugar & Coffee, in fact all
              most any thing we could wish, clothing, etc.”
              He writes again
              on September 28, 1862: “I have Clothes plenty to Doo Me all winter as we
              all
              Got what we wanted at Harpers Ferry.”
              There are
              probably other examples in other letter sets. I just happen to be more
              familiar
              with the 37th NCT.
              Kindest Regards,
              Michael
              North Carolina and the Civil War blog
              2010-11 North Carolina Historian of the Year

              ________________________________

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              ------------------------------------

              Yahoo! Groups Links

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • MikeL49NYVI@aol.com
              Hi Gerry: While I am very new to the study of CSA coats, I believe that Troy has it correct. I have seen where the Stonewall Brigade got new English Uniforms
              Message 6 of 13 , Jun 28 4:16 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Gerry:

                While I am very new to the study of CSA coats, I believe that Troy has
                it correct. I have seen where the Stonewall Brigade got new English
                Uniforms in early '63 which would have been the Tait jackets, and a cadet gray.
                Some of this type of coat appears to have been issued without the shoulder
                straps, and some with them.

                Another place I looked says that the study and research is still going on,
                as far as when the Type III's were made. From what I have seen, it seems
                to depend upon the amount of available cloth, and how many uniforms they had
                to make.

                And someone else may know a lot more about this, but I do not see a
                labeling of the jackets being done, just producing what they could, with what
                they had to work with. The labels( I, II, III )is a more modern terminology
                way to distinguish them.

                Mike L



                In a message dated 6/27/2012 11:17:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                gerry1952@... writes:




                Mike;

                I thought Depot III uniforms were not issued until 1864 at the earliest?

                Gerry

                -----Original Message-----
                From: _TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
                [mailto:_TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_
                (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com) ]On Behalf Of _MikeL49NYVI@..._ (mailto:MikeL49NYVI@...)
                Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 10:19 PM
                To: _TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March

                I have a semi-related story:
                We have been researching the 1st Texas for a CSA impression, and have
                ben getting a lot of background material from the 1st Texas in Houston.
                While
                discussing uniform coats, he told me that the 1st received new Richmond
                Depot III coats from England, which were cadet gray, after Gettysburg. It
                seems that there was so much blue in them, that at Chickamaugua, their own
                friends from Longstreet's Corps mistook them for Federals, and fired a
                couple
                volleys at them.
                So, it was not uncommon to mistake friend from foe, in any battle. Even
                when wearing the right uniform.

                Mike Lavis

                In a message dated 6/27/2012 7:12:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                _tgclemens@..._ (mailto:tgclemens@...) writes:

                Thanks Mike. I am always skeptical of regimental histories, too much
                post-war influence on the writes. I do not doubt that some guys were
                wearing
                captured clothing, but I doubt enough of them to fool anyone to think they
                were a Union unit. I recall somewhere, no time to look now, a CS soldier
                saying unlike others, he only took underclothing, not wanting to be shot
                mistakenly. Good stuff!

                ________________________________
                From: _TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
                [_TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com) ]
                on
                behalf of Jim Rosebrock [_pointsalines@..._
                (mailto:pointsalines@...) ]
                Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 5:55 AM
                To: _TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March

                Michael,
                Are William Morris's letters found in a book on the 27th North Carolina?
                Regards
                Jim Rosebrock

                ________________________________
                From: Michael Hardy
                <_mchardy@..._ (mailto:mchardy@...)
                <mailto:mchardy%40michaelchardy.com>>
                To: "_TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
                <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>"
                <_TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
                <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>>
                Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 10:25 AM
                Subject: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March

                Teej - Capt.
                William Morris, commanding the 37th North Carolina Troops, Branch's
                brigade,
                Light Division, writes home on September 23, 1862: “…we went to harpers
                Ferry & captured
                Twelve Thousand yankeys and all of there arms & stores. they surrendered
                without Much fighting. We had a fine time at harpers fery. Got Plenty
                Shugar & Coffee, in fact all
                most any thing we could wish, clothing, etc.”
                He writes again
                on September 28, 1862: “I have Clothes plenty to Doo Me all winter as we
                all
                Got what we wanted at Harpers Ferry.”
                There are
                probably other examples in other letter sets. I just happen to be more
                familiar
                with the 37th NCT.
                Kindest Regards,
                Michael
                North Carolina and the Civil War blog
                2010-11 North Carolina Historian of the Year

                ________________________________

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                ------------------------------------

                Yahoo! Groups Links

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • G E Mayers
                Dear Mike, I agree... Troy could be right. Yes, Les Jensen is the one, IIRC, who actually put the labels of Richmond Deport I, II, III on the jackets.I find it
                Message 7 of 13 , Jun 28 5:03 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Dear Mike,

                  I agree... Troy could be right. Yes, Les Jensen is the one, IIRC, who actually put the labels of Richmond Deport I, II, III on the jackets.I find it very interesting that no surviving examples (so far as is known) of Type I remain, but plenty of the transitional style between I and II, and probably between II and III.

                  When it went to Chickamauga, the two divisions of Longstreet's Corps that went west were all outfitted with kersey blue trowsers according to research Don Troiani did for one of his paintings. The trowsers may have been appropriated from dead Yankees.

                  Hope this helps!

                  Gerry

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of MikeL49NYVI@...
                  Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 7:16 AM
                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March



                  Hi Gerry:

                  While I am very new to the study of CSA coats, I believe that Troy has
                  it correct. I have seen where the Stonewall Brigade got new English
                  Uniforms in early '63 which would have been the Tait jackets, and a cadet gray.
                  Some of this type of coat appears to have been issued without the shoulder
                  straps, and some with them.

                  Another place I looked says that the study and research is still going on,
                  as far as when the Type III's were made. From what I have seen, it seems
                  to depend upon the amount of available cloth, and how many uniforms they had
                  to make.

                  And someone else may know a lot more about this, but I do not see a
                  labeling of the jackets being done, just producing what they could, with what
                  they had to work with. The labels( I, II, III )is a more modern terminology
                  way to distinguish them.

                  Mike L



                  In a message dated 6/27/2012 11:17:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                  gerry1952@... writes:

                  Mike;

                  I thought Depot III uniforms were not issued until 1864 at the earliest?

                  Gerry

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: _TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
                  [mailto:_TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_
                  (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com) ]On Behalf Of _MikeL49NYVI@..._ (mailto:MikeL49NYVI@...)
                  Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 10:19 PM
                  To: _TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March

                  I have a semi-related story:
                  We have been researching the 1st Texas for a CSA impression, and have
                  ben getting a lot of background material from the 1st Texas in Houston.
                  While
                  discussing uniform coats, he told me that the 1st received new Richmond
                  Depot III coats from England, which were cadet gray, after Gettysburg. It
                  seems that there was so much blue in them, that at Chickamaugua, their own
                  friends from Longstreet's Corps mistook them for Federals, and fired a
                  couple
                  volleys at them.
                  So, it was not uncommon to mistake friend from foe, in any battle. Even
                  when wearing the right uniform.

                  Mike Lavis

                  In a message dated 6/27/2012 7:12:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                  _tgclemens@..._ (mailto:tgclemens@...) writes:

                  Thanks Mike. I am always skeptical of regimental histories, too much
                  post-war influence on the writes. I do not doubt that some guys were
                  wearing
                  captured clothing, but I doubt enough of them to fool anyone to think they
                  were a Union unit. I recall somewhere, no time to look now, a CS soldier
                  saying unlike others, he only took underclothing, not wanting to be shot
                  mistakenly. Good stuff!

                  ________________________________
                  From: _TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
                  [_TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com) ]
                  on
                  behalf of Jim Rosebrock [_pointsalines@..._
                  (mailto:pointsalines@...) ]
                  Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 5:55 AM
                  To: _TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March

                  Michael,
                  Are William Morris's letters found in a book on the 27th North Carolina?
                  Regards
                  Jim Rosebrock

                  ________________________________
                  From: Michael Hardy
                  <_mchardy@..._ (mailto:mchardy@...)
                  <mailto:mchardy%40michaelchardy.com>>
                  To: "_TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
                  <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>"
                  <_TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
                  <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>>
                  Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 10:25 AM
                  Subject: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March

                  Teej - Capt.
                  William Morris, commanding the 37th North Carolina Troops, Branch's
                  brigade,
                  Light Division, writes home on September 23, 1862: “…we went to harpers
                  Ferry & captured
                  Twelve Thousand yankeys and all of there arms & stores. they surrendered
                  without Much fighting. We had a fine time at harpers fery. Got Plenty
                  Shugar & Coffee, in fact all
                  most any thing we could wish, clothing, etc.”
                  He writes again
                  on September 28, 1862: “I have Clothes plenty to Doo Me all winter as we
                  all
                  Got what we wanted at Harpers Ferry.”
                  There are
                  probably other examples in other letter sets. I just happen to be more
                  familiar
                  with the 37th NCT.
                  Kindest Regards,
                  Michael
                  North Carolina and the Civil War blog
                  2010-11 North Carolina Historian of the Year

                  ________________________________

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  ------------------------------------

                  Yahoo! Groups Links

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • troyacool@yahoo.com
                  Sorry about that- yes it s Les Jensen and his articles in the CMH, that lays out the type system. Doubt they were Federal trousers, but could be captured. Sent
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jun 28 5:09 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Sorry about that- yes it's Les Jensen and his articles in the CMH, that lays out the type system.
                    Doubt they were Federal trousers, but could be captured.
                    Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
                    Sender: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 08:03:50
                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    Reply-To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March

                    Dear Mike,

                    I agree... Troy could be right. Yes, Les Jensen is the one, IIRC, who actually put the labels of Richmond Deport I, II, III on the jackets.I find it very interesting that no surviving examples (so far as is known) of Type I remain, but plenty of the transitional style between I and II, and probably between II and III.

                    When it went to Chickamauga, the two divisions of Longstreet's Corps that went west were all outfitted with kersey blue trowsers according to research Don Troiani did for one of his paintings. The trowsers may have been appropriated from dead Yankees.

                    Hope this helps!

                    Gerry

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of MikeL49NYVI@...
                    Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 7:16 AM
                    To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March



                    Hi Gerry:

                    While I am very new to the study of CSA coats, I believe that Troy has
                    it correct. I have seen where the Stonewall Brigade got new English
                    Uniforms in early '63 which would have been the Tait jackets, and a cadet gray.
                    Some of this type of coat appears to have been issued without the shoulder
                    straps, and some with them.

                    Another place I looked says that the study and research is still going on,
                    as far as when the Type III's were made. From what I have seen, it seems
                    to depend upon the amount of available cloth, and how many uniforms they had
                    to make.

                    And someone else may know a lot more about this, but I do not see a
                    labeling of the jackets being done, just producing what they could, with what
                    they had to work with. The labels( I, II, III )is a more modern terminology
                    way to distinguish them.

                    Mike L



                    In a message dated 6/27/2012 11:17:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                    gerry1952@... writes:

                    Mike;

                    I thought Depot III uniforms were not issued until 1864 at the earliest?

                    Gerry

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: _TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
                    [mailto:_TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_
                    (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com) ]On Behalf Of _MikeL49NYVI@..._ (mailto:MikeL49NYVI@...)
                    Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 10:19 PM
                    To: _TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March

                    I have a semi-related story:
                    We have been researching the 1st Texas for a CSA impression, and have
                    ben getting a lot of background material from the 1st Texas in Houston.
                    While
                    discussing uniform coats, he told me that the 1st received new Richmond
                    Depot III coats from England, which were cadet gray, after Gettysburg. It
                    seems that there was so much blue in them, that at Chickamaugua, their own
                    friends from Longstreet's Corps mistook them for Federals, and fired a
                    couple
                    volleys at them.
                    So, it was not uncommon to mistake friend from foe, in any battle. Even
                    when wearing the right uniform.

                    Mike Lavis

                    In a message dated 6/27/2012 7:12:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                    _tgclemens@..._ (mailto:tgclemens@...) writes:

                    Thanks Mike. I am always skeptical of regimental histories, too much
                    post-war influence on the writes. I do not doubt that some guys were
                    wearing
                    captured clothing, but I doubt enough of them to fool anyone to think they
                    were a Union unit. I recall somewhere, no time to look now, a CS soldier
                    saying unlike others, he only took underclothing, not wanting to be shot
                    mistakenly. Good stuff!

                    ________________________________
                    From: _TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
                    [_TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com) ]
                    on
                    behalf of Jim Rosebrock [_pointsalines@..._
                    (mailto:pointsalines@...) ]
                    Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 5:55 AM
                    To: _TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March

                    Michael,
                    Are William Morris's letters found in a book on the 27th North Carolina?
                    Regards
                    Jim Rosebrock

                    ________________________________
                    From: Michael Hardy
                    <_mchardy@..._ (mailto:mchardy@...)
                    <mailto:mchardy%40michaelchardy.com>>
                    To: "_TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
                    <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>"
                    <_TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
                    <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>>
                    Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 10:25 AM
                    Subject: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March

                    Teej - Capt.
                    William Morris, commanding the 37th North Carolina Troops, Branch's
                    brigade,
                    Light Division, writes home on September 23, 1862: “…we went to harpers
                    Ferry & captured
                    Twelve Thousand yankeys and all of there arms & stores. they surrendered
                    without Much fighting. We had a fine time at harpers fery. Got Plenty
                    Shugar & Coffee, in fact all
                    most any thing we could wish, clothing, etc.”
                    He writes again
                    on September 28, 1862: “I have Clothes plenty to Doo Me all winter as we
                    all
                    Got what we wanted at Harpers Ferry.”
                    There are
                    probably other examples in other letter sets. I just happen to be more
                    familiar
                    with the 37th NCT.
                    Kindest Regards,
                    Michael
                    North Carolina and the Civil War blog
                    2010-11 North Carolina Historian of the Year

                    ________________________________

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    ------------------------------------

                    Yahoo! Groups Links

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • G E Mayers
                    Mike; I do believe by 1863 it was an established practice pretty much across the armies of the CS that supply needs would be made up in part from captured
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jun 28 5:18 AM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Mike;

                      I do believe by 1863 it was an established practice pretty much across the armies of the CS that supply needs would be made up in part from captured stocks and taken from the bodies of the enemy. Trowsers were indeed taken and appropriated, as happened before the sunken road wall at Fredericksburg in December, 1862. And the troops there belonged to Longstreet's Corps.

                      BTW the painting I referenced that Don Troiani did is found on page 159 of his book "Don Troiani's Regiments & Uniforms of the Civil War." If you have that book, you can also take a peek at page 145 as well.

                      Gerry

                      Gerry

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of troyacool@...
                      Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 8:10 AM
                      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March



                      Sorry about that- yes it's Les Jensen and his articles in the CMH, that lays out the type system.
                      Doubt they were Federal trousers, but could be captured.
                      Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
                      Sender: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 08:03:50
                      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                      Reply-To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March

                      Dear Mike,

                      I agree... Troy could be right. Yes, Les Jensen is the one, IIRC, who actually put the labels of Richmond Deport I, II, III on the jackets.I find it very interesting that no surviving examples (so far as is known) of Type I remain, but plenty of the transitional style between I and II, and probably between II and III.

                      When it went to Chickamauga, the two divisions of Longstreet's Corps that went west were all outfitted with kersey blue trowsers according to research Don Troiani did for one of his paintings. The trowsers may have been appropriated from dead Yankees.

                      Hope this helps!

                      Gerry

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of MikeL49NYVI@...
                      Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 7:16 AM
                      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March



                      Hi Gerry:

                      While I am very new to the study of CSA coats, I believe that Troy has
                      it correct. I have seen where the Stonewall Brigade got new English
                      Uniforms in early '63 which would have been the Tait jackets, and a cadet gray.
                      Some of this type of coat appears to have been issued without the shoulder
                      straps, and some with them.

                      Another place I looked says that the study and research is still going on,
                      as far as when the Type III's were made. From what I have seen, it seems
                      to depend upon the amount of available cloth, and how many uniforms they had
                      to make.

                      And someone else may know a lot more about this, but I do not see a
                      labeling of the jackets being done, just producing what they could, with what
                      they had to work with. The labels( I, II, III )is a more modern terminology
                      way to distinguish them.

                      Mike L



                      In a message dated 6/27/2012 11:17:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                      gerry1952@... writes:

                      Mike;

                      I thought Depot III uniforms were not issued until 1864 at the earliest?

                      Gerry

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: _TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
                      [mailto:_TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_
                      (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com) ]On Behalf Of _MikeL49NYVI@..._ (mailto:MikeL49NYVI@...)
                      Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 10:19 PM
                      To: _TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March

                      I have a semi-related story:
                      We have been researching the 1st Texas for a CSA impression, and have
                      ben getting a lot of background material from the 1st Texas in Houston.
                      While
                      discussing uniform coats, he told me that the 1st received new Richmond
                      Depot III coats from England, which were cadet gray, after Gettysburg. It
                      seems that there was so much blue in them, that at Chickamaugua, their own
                      friends from Longstreet's Corps mistook them for Federals, and fired a
                      couple
                      volleys at them.
                      So, it was not uncommon to mistake friend from foe, in any battle. Even
                      when wearing the right uniform.

                      Mike Lavis

                      In a message dated 6/27/2012 7:12:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                      _tgclemens@..._ (mailto:tgclemens@...) writes:

                      Thanks Mike. I am always skeptical of regimental histories, too much
                      post-war influence on the writes. I do not doubt that some guys were
                      wearing
                      captured clothing, but I doubt enough of them to fool anyone to think they
                      were a Union unit. I recall somewhere, no time to look now, a CS soldier
                      saying unlike others, he only took underclothing, not wanting to be shot
                      mistakenly. Good stuff!

                      ________________________________
                      From: _TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
                      [_TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com) ]
                      on
                      behalf of Jim Rosebrock [_pointsalines@..._
                      (mailto:pointsalines@...) ]
                      Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 5:55 AM
                      To: _TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March

                      Michael,
                      Are William Morris's letters found in a book on the 27th North Carolina?
                      Regards
                      Jim Rosebrock

                      ________________________________
                      From: Michael Hardy
                      <_mchardy@..._ (mailto:mchardy@...)
                      <mailto:mchardy%40michaelchardy.com>>
                      To: "_TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
                      <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>"
                      <_TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
                      <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>>
                      Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 10:25 AM
                      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Hill's Light Division March

                      Teej - Capt.
                      William Morris, commanding the 37th North Carolina Troops, Branch's
                      brigade,
                      Light Division, writes home on September 23, 1862: “…we went to harpers
                      Ferry & captured
                      Twelve Thousand yankeys and all of there arms & stores. they surrendered
                      without Much fighting. We had a fine time at harpers fery. Got Plenty
                      Shugar & Coffee, in fact all
                      most any thing we could wish, clothing, etc.”
                      He writes again
                      on September 28, 1862: “I have Clothes plenty to Doo Me all winter as we
                      all
                      Got what we wanted at Harpers Ferry.”
                      There are
                      probably other examples in other letter sets. I just happen to be more
                      familiar
                      with the 37th NCT.
                      Kindest Regards,
                      Michael
                      North Carolina and the Civil War blog
                      2010-11 North Carolina Historian of the Year

                      ________________________________

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      ------------------------------------

                      Yahoo! Groups Links

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • DPowell334@AOL.COM
                      The trowsers were all part of the new uniform issue that most regiments in the two divisions received in late August or early September, just before the move.
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jun 28 6:14 AM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        The trowsers were all part of the new uniform issue that most regiments in
                        the two divisions received in late August or early September, just before
                        the move. There are numerous references to those issues in the letters and
                        diaries of Kershaw's Benning's, Robertson's, and other troops.

                        Dave Powell


                        In a message dated 6/28/2012 7:04:03 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
                        gerry1952@... writes:

                        When it went to Chickamauga, the two divisions of Longstreet's Corps that
                        went west were all outfitted with kersey blue trowsers according to
                        research Don Troiani did for one of his paintings. The trowsers may have been
                        appropriated from dead Yankees.

                        Hope this helps!




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Brett Bondurant
                        Thanks for all the great discussion on this. My reenactment unit and I plan to participate in the reenactment of the march of Hill s Light Division on Sept. 7
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jun 28 11:09 AM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Thanks for all the great discussion on this. My reenactment unit and I
                          plan to participate in the reenactment of the march of Hill's Light
                          Division on Sept. 7 and I just wanted to portray his men's attire as
                          closely as possible.


                          Thanks,

                          Brett Bondurant

                          On 6/28/2012 9:14 AM, DPowell334@... wrote:
                          >
                          > The trowsers were all part of the new uniform issue that most
                          > regiments in
                          > the two divisions received in late August or early September, just before
                          > the move. There are numerous references to those issues in the letters
                          > and
                          > diaries of Kershaw's Benning's, Robertson's, and other troops.
                          >
                          > Dave Powell
                          >
                          >
                          > In a message dated 6/28/2012 7:04:03 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
                          > gerry1952@... <mailto:gerry1952%40verizon.net> writes:
                          >
                          > When it went to Chickamauga, the two divisions of Longstreet's Corps that
                          > went west were all outfitted with kersey blue trowsers according to
                          > research Don Troiani did for one of his paintings. The trowsers may
                          > have been
                          > appropriated from dead Yankees.
                          >
                          > Hope this helps!
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >



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