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RE: [TalkAntietam] Antietam to be re-enacted twice in Sept 2012

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  • G E Mayers
    Mike; Great points all told in your response! Thanks for checking in with Chris. My living history organization (Civil War Heritage Foundation) members may go
    Message 1 of 13 , Dec 9, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      Mike;

      Great points all told in your response! Thanks for checking in with Chris. My living history organization (Civil War Heritage Foundation) members may go with the mainstream one (the one for September 14-16) as I sent to some of the members who live locally near me (greater Philadelphia and Lehigh Valley PA metro areas) information on it. This small group, which all belongs to CWHF, comprise Longstreet's HQ in the field.

      I do not think the members could do both events back to back, so we will have to see what Chris sends in the way of information etc.

      As to the reason many reenactors do not make the oft-termed "mega" events, I think you hit it on the head re the economy. People like yourselves (and people like me who changed jobs and could only find part time work) have larger problems with finances etc so the availability of being able to attend longer events is not there.

      Feel free to contact me directly on my regular email in the future re MMM rather than through the Talk Antietam board to save bandwidth.

      Yr. Obt. Svt.
      G E "Gerry" Mayers

      A Yankee by Birth but a Rebel by Choice!


      -----Original Message-----
      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of MikeL49NYVI@...
      Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 8:30 AM
      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Antietam to be re-enacted twice in Sept 2012



      Gary:

      Sure thing, I'll mention it to him when he responds to my last e-mail.
      I might even get down there (I live near Buffalo, NY) this weekend to look
      at the event site.

      Our event is the weekend after Labor Day, Sept 8-9th. Labor Day is on
      the 3rd next year, a lot get confused by that.

      MMM stands for Maryland My Maryland much easier to just use MMM each
      time. Plus we are doing some of South Mountain as well as Antietam.

      The actual numbers of reenactors has been a topic of discussion and
      debate for a few years now. At the Blue Gray Alliance meeting in St. Louis
      last January the subject came up once again.

      The general consensus there, considering the numbers at national,
      regional, and local events, plus the economy, was estimated at about 12000 for
      the Civil War all told.
      Now, there is no way to know for sure, but here is some food for thought:

      Most of the current Blue Gray Alliance leadership was around for much of
      the 125th cycle of events that started the major reenacting push. Gettysburg
      (of course) was the focal point. At the 125th GB, there was, for the first
      time, 10,000 reenactors in attendance.
      If memory serves, that mark was not hit again until the 130th
      Gettysburg, and the influx of new members that was spurred on by the Ken Burns
      series, and the movie "Glory" which happened about the same time.
      The reenacting hobby grew steadily, until the 135th Antietam, which saw
      close to 15,000, and the 135th Gettysburg that had close to 30,000 reenactors.

      Those were the high points, but getting 3000-5000 at events like Cedar
      Creek, Franklin, and others was a common occurrence for the next few years.

      At the afore mentioned St. Louis meeting, we all agreed that last year's
      1st Manassas would be a good indication of how large the hobby actually was
      anymore, since nearly every large organization was gong to be there, east
      and west.
      That event started out advertising 15,000 would be there, and they were
      going to cut if off at that number.
      But as registrations didn't pour in, that number was reduced to 12,000
      cut-off. And realistically the site was too small for even that number.

      However, the number of registered came in something like 8000. I do not
      have the exact figure, but that is what I was told, and the returns from
      the morning reports on Sat. were close to that. I got that 2nd hand from the
      commander of our brigade. But looking at the field, and comparing the
      numbers from our battalion, to the size of the others, it is a very reasonable
      estimate.


      Also organizations that used to have 200-300 in their regiments now
      only regularly bring close to 120 for the major events, and this is general
      all across the country.


      So, the actual results from the 1st large 150th anniversary event seem to
      bear out the 12000 estimate. It could be a bit higher, people are unable to
      travel across the country like they used to, and many (like me) have lost
      their jobs, so the money and vacation time is no longer there. But then
      again if these others are not making the long trips anymore, then they will not
      be at the main 150th events anyway, so the 12000 number still seems to fit.

      Sorry to go on so long, but there is no simple way to explain what many
      think is the condition of the hobby anymore. It is a good discussion, and I'd
      like to hear why others think it is much higher.

      Mike L




      In a message dated 12/8/2011 9:37:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
      gerry1952@... writes:

      Mike,

      I saw in the newspaper article the mention of Chris;s event but the story
      was incomplete. Is Chris's event the weekend before? If so, it could be
      Labor Day weekend (possibly).

      What is MMM?

      BTW I did contact Chris directly as per your earlier suggestion but have
      not yet heard back from him either way. Can you check in with him and ask
      him to respond soon to my note? I ask because I will need to submit the
      information on the event to my Civil War4 Heritage Foundation living history
      group for their 2012 schedule for insurance coverage.

      Thanks for the information; as to your comment on the CW reenacting
      community not being as large, that might be debatable. What can be agreed upon is
      the growth in smaller, more regional events than were happening ten to
      fifteen years ago.

      Yr. Obt. Svt.
      G E "Gerry" Mayers

      A Yankee by Birth but a Rebel by Choice!

      -----Original Message-----
      From: _TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
      [mailto:_TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_
      (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com) ]On Behalf Of _MikeL49NYVI@..._ (mailto:MikeL49NYVI@...)
      Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 1:19 PM
      To: _TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Antietam to be re-enacted twice in Sept 2012

      It is interesting, isn't it?

      In watching the video, I am amused to hear claims of "thousands of
      reenactors" at these events. The hobby just is simply not that large
      anymore.
      Plus the 2nd one which involves some of the people that put on the yearly
      Gettysburg event, is going to be the same weekend that the NPS is planning
      on their observance of the battle. In fact there is going to be 3
      observances of the anniversary of the battle.

      I know of some who have committed to the NPS event, and a few will go
      to the first reenactment, (Maryland My Maryland) and stay around for the
      NPS. I also know of 5 large Federal reenactment organizations, plus
      possibly
      some parts of others, that will be at MMM. Not to mention the CSA forces
      that have committed to it.

      And, a few weeks afterwards, there is the 150th Vicksburg Campaign in
      Mississippi, which most of the western groups will be supporting. Plus the
      150th Perryville is the first week in October..............................

      So all the potential forces that have been at the larger Antietam
      reenactments in years past are splitting up, or are just not reenacting
      the Civil
      War any longer. There will not be "thousands of reenactors" at any of
      these. We could very well get over 2000 for MMM but that will be the
      largest of
      the three.

      But this is not so unusal, there are actually two Shiloh events this
      March/April, both on the same weekend, and just down the road from each
      other.

      Yep, it is certainly interesting, and a bit amusing.
      Mike Lavis

      In a message dated 12/8/2011 11:54:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
      _RoteBaron@..._ (mailto:RoteBaron@...) writes:

      Two re-enactments of Battle of Antietam are planned — on back-to-back
      weekends in September 2012.

      Read the story at:

      __http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-battle-of-antietam-to-be-reenacted-twic
      e_
      (http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-battle-of-antietam-to-be-reenacted-twice)
      -in-september-2012-20111207,0,1047752.story_
      (_http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-battle-of-antietam-to-be-reenacted-twic
      e-in-september-2012-20111207,0,1_
      (http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-battle-of-antietam-to-be-reenacted-twice-in-september-2012-20111207,0,1)
      047752.story)

      Tom Shay

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • 128thpa@comcast.net
      Congrats to Gerry who was named Volunteer of the Year by the Bucks County CWRT.  Well deserved.   Paula [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 13 , Dec 18, 2011
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        Congrats to Gerry who was named Volunteer of the Year by the Bucks County CWRT.  Well deserved.

         

        Paula







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • G E Mayers
        Paula; Thank you. How did you know of it? Gerry ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of 128thpa@comcast.net
        Message 3 of 13 , Dec 18, 2011
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          Paula;

          Thank you. How did you know of it?

          Gerry

          -----Original Message-----
          From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of 128thpa@...
          Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2011 5:21 PM
          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Congrats Gerry





          Congrats to Gerry who was named Volunteer of the Year by the Bucks County CWRT. Well deserved.



          Paula

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • 128thpa@comcast.net
          I get the newsletter.  I am a  member, I just haven t been able to make meetings because of school or other obligations I have. Happy Holidays to everyone.
          Message 4 of 13 , Dec 18, 2011
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            I get the newsletter.  I am a  member, I just haven't been able to make meetings because of school or other obligations I have.



            Happy Holidays to everyone.



            Paula



            ----- Original Message -----


            From: "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2011 5:47:16 PM
            Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Congrats Gerry

            Paula;

            Thank you. How did you know of it?

            Gerry

              -----Original Message-----
              From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of 128thpa@...
              Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2011 5:21 PM
              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Congrats Gerry


                


              Congrats to Gerry who was named Volunteer of the Year by the Bucks County CWRT.  Well deserved.

                

              Paula

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • eighth_conn_inf
            Congratulations Gerry.
            Message 5 of 13 , Dec 18, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              Congratulations Gerry.

              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> wrote:
              >
              > Paula;
              >
              > Thank you. How did you know of it?
              >
              > Gerry
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of 128thpa@...
              > Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2011 5:21 PM
              > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Congrats Gerry
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Congrats to Gerry who was named Volunteer of the Year by the Bucks County CWRT. Well deserved.
              >
              >
              >
              > Paula
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Dave
              Same here, way to go Gerry. Volunteers are the best! Dave McGowan
              Message 6 of 13 , Dec 19, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Same here, way to go Gerry. Volunteers are the best!

                Dave McGowan


                On 12/18/2011 5:21 PM, 128thpa@... wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > Congrats to Gerry who was named Volunteer of the Year by the Bucks
                > County CWRT. Well deserved.
                >
                >
                >
                > Paula
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
              • G E Mayers
                Mike, I still have not yet heard back from Chris Anders. Am wondering if you have more information for me on the MMM event? Anything you can provide me with,
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 2, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  Mike,

                  I still have not yet heard back from Chris Anders. Am wondering if you have more information for me on the MMM event? Anything you can provide me with, especially a website or contact information, that I can put in to the Executive Committee of the Civil War Heritage Foundation for the 2012 Schedule will be greatly appreciated.

                  Thanks for your help!

                  Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  G E "Gerry" Mayers

                  A Yankee by Birth but a Rebel by Choice!



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of MikeL49NYVI@...
                  Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 8:30 AM
                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Antietam to be re-enacted twice in Sept 2012



                  Gary:

                  Sure thing, I'll mention it to him when he responds to my last e-mail.
                  I might even get down there (I live near Buffalo, NY) this weekend to look
                  at the event site.

                  Our event is the weekend after Labor Day, Sept 8-9th. Labor Day is on
                  the 3rd next year, a lot get confused by that.

                  MMM stands for Maryland My Maryland much easier to just use MMM each
                  time. Plus we are doing some of South Mountain as well as Antietam.

                  The actual numbers of reenactors has been a topic of discussion and
                  debate for a few years now. At the Blue Gray Alliance meeting in St. Louis
                  last January the subject came up once again.

                  The general consensus there, considering the numbers at national,
                  regional, and local events, plus the economy, was estimated at about 12000 for
                  the Civil War all told.
                  Now, there is no way to know for sure, but here is some food for thought:

                  Most of the current Blue Gray Alliance leadership was around for much of
                  the 125th cycle of events that started the major reenacting push. Gettysburg
                  (of course) was the focal point. At the 125th GB, there was, for the first
                  time, 10,000 reenactors in attendance.
                  If memory serves, that mark was not hit again until the 130th
                  Gettysburg, and the influx of new members that was spurred on by the Ken Burns
                  series, and the movie "Glory" which happened about the same time.
                  The reenacting hobby grew steadily, until the 135th Antietam, which saw
                  close to 15,000, and the 135th Gettysburg that had close to 30,000 reenactors.

                  Those were the high points, but getting 3000-5000 at events like Cedar
                  Creek, Franklin, and others was a common occurrence for the next few years.

                  At the afore mentioned St. Louis meeting, we all agreed that last year's
                  1st Manassas would be a good indication of how large the hobby actually was
                  anymore, since nearly every large organization was gong to be there, east
                  and west.
                  That event started out advertising 15,000 would be there, and they were
                  going to cut if off at that number.
                  But as registrations didn't pour in, that number was reduced to 12,000
                  cut-off. And realistically the site was too small for even that number.

                  However, the number of registered came in something like 8000. I do not
                  have the exact figure, but that is what I was told, and the returns from
                  the morning reports on Sat. were close to that. I got that 2nd hand from the
                  commander of our brigade. But looking at the field, and comparing the
                  numbers from our battalion, to the size of the others, it is a very reasonable
                  estimate.


                  Also organizations that used to have 200-300 in their regiments now
                  only regularly bring close to 120 for the major events, and this is general
                  all across the country.


                  So, the actual results from the 1st large 150th anniversary event seem to
                  bear out the 12000 estimate. It could be a bit higher, people are unable to
                  travel across the country like they used to, and many (like me) have lost
                  their jobs, so the money and vacation time is no longer there. But then
                  again if these others are not making the long trips anymore, then they will not
                  be at the main 150th events anyway, so the 12000 number still seems to fit.

                  Sorry to go on so long, but there is no simple way to explain what many
                  think is the condition of the hobby anymore. It is a good discussion, and I'd
                  like to hear why others think it is much higher.

                  Mike L




                  In a message dated 12/8/2011 9:37:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                  gerry1952@... writes:

                  Mike,

                  I saw in the newspaper article the mention of Chris;s event but the story
                  was incomplete. Is Chris's event the weekend before? If so, it could be
                  Labor Day weekend (possibly).

                  What is MMM?

                  BTW I did contact Chris directly as per your earlier suggestion but have
                  not yet heard back from him either way. Can you check in with him and ask
                  him to respond soon to my note? I ask because I will need to submit the
                  information on the event to my Civil War4 Heritage Foundation living history
                  group for their 2012 schedule for insurance coverage.

                  Thanks for the information; as to your comment on the CW reenacting
                  community not being as large, that might be debatable. What can be agreed upon is
                  the growth in smaller, more regional events than were happening ten to
                  fifteen years ago.

                  Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  G E "Gerry" Mayers

                  A Yankee by Birth but a Rebel by Choice!

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: _TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
                  [mailto:_TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_
                  (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com) ]On Behalf Of _MikeL49NYVI@..._ (mailto:MikeL49NYVI@...)
                  Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 1:19 PM
                  To: _TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Antietam to be re-enacted twice in Sept 2012

                  It is interesting, isn't it?

                  In watching the video, I am amused to hear claims of "thousands of
                  reenactors" at these events. The hobby just is simply not that large
                  anymore.
                  Plus the 2nd one which involves some of the people that put on the yearly
                  Gettysburg event, is going to be the same weekend that the NPS is planning
                  on their observance of the battle. In fact there is going to be 3
                  observances of the anniversary of the battle.

                  I know of some who have committed to the NPS event, and a few will go
                  to the first reenactment, (Maryland My Maryland) and stay around for the
                  NPS. I also know of 5 large Federal reenactment organizations, plus
                  possibly
                  some parts of others, that will be at MMM. Not to mention the CSA forces
                  that have committed to it.

                  And, a few weeks afterwards, there is the 150th Vicksburg Campaign in
                  Mississippi, which most of the western groups will be supporting. Plus the
                  150th Perryville is the first week in October..............................

                  So all the potential forces that have been at the larger Antietam
                  reenactments in years past are splitting up, or are just not reenacting
                  the Civil
                  War any longer. There will not be "thousands of reenactors" at any of
                  these. We could very well get over 2000 for MMM but that will be the
                  largest of
                  the three.

                  But this is not so unusal, there are actually two Shiloh events this
                  March/April, both on the same weekend, and just down the road from each
                  other.

                  Yep, it is certainly interesting, and a bit amusing.
                  Mike Lavis

                  In a message dated 12/8/2011 11:54:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                  _RoteBaron@..._ (mailto:RoteBaron@...) writes:

                  Two re-enactments of Battle of Antietam are planned — on back-to-back
                  weekends in September 2012.

                  Read the story at:

                  __http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-battle-of-antietam-to-be-reenacted-twic
                  e_
                  (http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-battle-of-antietam-to-be-reenacted-twice)
                  -in-september-2012-20111207,0,1047752.story_
                  (_http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-battle-of-antietam-to-be-reenacted-twic
                  e-in-september-2012-20111207,0,1_
                  (http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-battle-of-antietam-to-be-reenacted-twice-in-september-2012-20111207,0,1)
                  047752.story)

                  Tom Shay

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • MikeL49NYVI@aol.com
                  Gerry: Chris has been very busy with outside concerns, both holiday related and otherwise. Here is the web-site address _Maryland My Maryland :: Reenactment_
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jan 3, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Gerry:

                    Chris has been very busy with outside concerns, both holiday related
                    and otherwise. Here is the web-site address
                    _Maryland My Maryland :: Reenactment_ (http://www.marylandmymaryland.org/)


                    You can most likely get ahold of someone that way. I know they approved
                    at least one female reenactor who applied through it. I have two messages
                    concerning the Federal side of things on there as well, with more coming.

                    sincerely
                    Mike Lavis




                    In a message dated 1/2/2012 11:35:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                    gerry1952@... writes:




                    Mike,

                    I still have not yet heard back from Chris Anders. Am wondering if you
                    have more information for me on the MMM event? Anything you can provide me
                    with, especially a website or contact information, that I can put in to the
                    Executive Committee of the Civil War Heritage Foundation for the 2012
                    Schedule will be greatly appreciated.

                    Thanks for your help!

                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                    A Yankee by Birth but a Rebel by Choice!

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: _TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
                    [mailto:_TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_
                    (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com) ]On Behalf Of _MikeL49NYVI@..._ (mailto:MikeL49NYVI@...)
                    Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 8:30 AM
                    To: _TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Antietam to be re-enacted twice in Sept 2012

                    Gary:

                    Sure thing, I'll mention it to him when he responds to my last e-mail.
                    I might even get down there (I live near Buffalo, NY) this weekend to look
                    at the event site.

                    Our event is the weekend after Labor Day, Sept 8-9th. Labor Day is on
                    the 3rd next year, a lot get confused by that.

                    MMM stands for Maryland My Maryland much easier to just use MMM each
                    time. Plus we are doing some of South Mountain as well as Antietam.

                    The actual numbers of reenactors has been a topic of discussion and
                    debate for a few years now. At the Blue Gray Alliance meeting in St. Louis
                    last January the subject came up once again.

                    The general consensus there, considering the numbers at national,
                    regional, and local events, plus the economy, was estimated at about 12000
                    for
                    the Civil War all told.
                    Now, there is no way to know for sure, but here is some food for thought:

                    Most of the current Blue Gray Alliance leadership was around for much of
                    the 125th cycle of events that started the major reenacting push.
                    Gettysburg
                    (of course) was the focal point. At the 125th GB, there was, for the first
                    time, 10,000 reenactors in attendance.
                    If memory serves, that mark was not hit again until the 130th
                    Gettysburg, and the influx of new members that was spurred on by the Ken
                    Burns
                    series, and the movie "Glory" which happened about the same time.
                    The reenacting hobby grew steadily, until the 135th Antietam, which saw
                    close to 15,000, and the 135th Gettysburg that had close to 30,000
                    reenactors.

                    Those were the high points, but getting 3000-5000 at events like Cedar
                    Creek, Franklin, and others was a common occurrence for the next few years.

                    At the afore mentioned St. Louis meeting, we all agreed that last year's
                    1st Manassas would be a good indication of how large the hobby actually
                    was
                    anymore, since nearly every large organization was gong to be there, east
                    and west.
                    That event started out advertising 15,000 would be there, and they were
                    going to cut if off at that number.
                    But as registrations didn't pour in, that number was reduced to 12,000
                    cut-off. And realistically the site was too small for even that number.

                    However, the number of registered came in something like 8000. I do not
                    have the exact figure, but that is what I was told, and the returns from
                    the morning reports on Sat. were close to that. I got that 2nd hand from
                    the
                    commander of our brigade. But looking at the field, and comparing the
                    numbers from our battalion, to the size of the others, it is a very
                    reasonable
                    estimate.

                    Also organizations that used to have 200-300 in their regiments now
                    only regularly bring close to 120 for the major events, and this is
                    general
                    all across the country.

                    So, the actual results from the 1st large 150th anniversary event seem to
                    bear out the 12000 estimate. It could be a bit higher, people are unable
                    to
                    travel across the country like they used to, and many (like me) have lost
                    their jobs, so the money and vacation time is no longer there. But then
                    again if these others are not making the long trips anymore, then they
                    will not
                    be at the main 150th events anyway, so the 12000 number still seems to
                    fit.

                    Sorry to go on so long, but there is no simple way to explain what many
                    think is the condition of the hobby anymore. It is a good discussion, and
                    I'd
                    like to hear why others think it is much higher.

                    Mike L

                    In a message dated 12/8/2011 9:37:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                    _gerry1952@..._ (mailto:gerry1952@...) writes:

                    Mike,

                    I saw in the newspaper article the mention of Chris;s event but the story
                    was incomplete. Is Chris's event the weekend before? If so, it could be
                    Labor Day weekend (possibly).

                    What is MMM?

                    BTW I did contact Chris directly as per your earlier suggestion but have
                    not yet heard back from him either way. Can you check in with him and ask
                    him to respond soon to my note? I ask because I will need to submit the
                    information on the event to my Civil War4 Heritage Foundation living
                    history
                    group for their 2012 schedule for insurance coverage.

                    Thanks for the information; as to your comment on the CW reenacting
                    community not being as large, that might be debatable. What can be agreed
                    upon is
                    the growth in smaller, more regional events than were happening ten to
                    fifteen years ago.

                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                    A Yankee by Birth but a Rebel by Choice!

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: __TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_
                    (mailto:_TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com) _ (mailto:_TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_
                    (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com) )
                    [mailto:__TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_
                    (mailto:_TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com) _
                    (mailto:_TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_
                    (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com) ) ]On Behalf Of __MikeL49NYVI@..._ (mailto:_MikeL49NYVI@...) _
                    (mailto:_MikeL49NYVI@..._ (mailto:MikeL49NYVI@...) )
                    Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 1:19 PM
                    To: __TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:_TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
                    _ (mailto:_TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_
                    (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com) )
                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Antietam to be re-enacted twice in Sept 2012

                    It is interesting, isn't it?

                    In watching the video, I am amused to hear claims of "thousands of
                    reenactors" at these events. The hobby just is simply not that large
                    anymore.
                    Plus the 2nd one which involves some of the people that put on the yearly
                    Gettysburg event, is going to be the same weekend that the NPS is planning
                    on their observance of the battle. In fact there is going to be 3
                    observances of the anniversary of the battle.

                    I know of some who have committed to the NPS event, and a few will go
                    to the first reenactment, (Maryland My Maryland) and stay around for the
                    NPS. I also know of 5 large Federal reenactment organizations, plus
                    possibly
                    some parts of others, that will be at MMM. Not to mention the CSA forces
                    that have committed to it.

                    And, a few weeks afterwards, there is the 150th Vicksburg Campaign in
                    Mississippi, which most of the western groups will be supporting. Plus the
                    150th Perryville is the first week in October..............................

                    So all the potential forces that have been at the larger Antietam
                    reenactments in years past are splitting up, or are just not reenacting
                    the Civil
                    War any longer. There will not be "thousands of reenactors" at any of
                    these. We could very well get over 2000 for MMM but that will be the
                    largest of
                    the three.

                    But this is not so unusal, there are actually two Shiloh events this
                    March/April, both on the same weekend, and just down the road from each
                    other.

                    Yep, it is certainly interesting, and a bit amusing.
                    Mike Lavis

                    In a message dated 12/8/2011 11:54:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                    __RoteBaron@..._ (mailto:_RoteBaron@...) _
                    (mailto:_RoteBaron@..._ (mailto:RoteBaron@...) ) writes:

                    Two re-enactments of Battle of Antietam are planned — on back-to-back
                    weekends in September 2012.

                    Read the story at:

                    ___http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-battle-of-antietam-to-be-reenacted-twi
                    c_
                    (http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-battle-of-antietam-to-be-reenacted-twic)
                    e_
                    (_http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-battle-of-antietam-to-be-reenacted-twic
                    e_
                    (http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-battle-of-antietam-to-be-reenacted-twice) )
                    -in-september-2012-20111207,0,1047752.story_
                    (__http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-battle-of-antietam-to-be-reenacted-twi
                    c_
                    (http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-battle-of-antietam-to-be-reenacted-twic)
                    e-in-september-2012-20111207,0,1_
                    (_http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-battle-of-antietam-to-be-reenacted-twic
                    e-in-september-2012-20111207,0,1_
                    (http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-battle-of-antietam-to-be-reenacted-twice-in-september-2012-20111207,0,1) )
                    047752.story)

                    Tom Shay

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • G E Mayers
                    Mike; Thanks for the help. I just found out the mainstream 150th reenactment already has a Longstreet lined up so I do not want our particular living history
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jan 3, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Mike;

                      Thanks for the help. I just found out the mainstream 150th reenactment already has a Longstreet lined up so I do not want our particular living history group which has a Longstreet to get in the middle of something that could be "difficult".

                      Feel free to email me directly in the future about the MMM event.

                      Gerry

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of MikeL49NYVI@...
                      Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 8:58 PM
                      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Antietam to be re-enacted twice in Sept 2012



                      Gerry:

                      Chris has been very busy with outside concerns, both holiday related
                      and otherwise. Here is the web-site address
                      _Maryland My Maryland :: Reenactment_ (http://www.marylandmymaryland.org/)


                      You can most likely get ahold of someone that way. I know they approved
                      at least one female reenactor who applied through it. I have two messages
                      concerning the Federal side of things on there as well, with more coming.

                      sincerely
                      Mike Lavis

                      In a message dated 1/2/2012 11:35:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                      gerry1952@... writes:

                      Mike,

                      I still have not yet heard back from Chris Anders. Am wondering if you
                      have more information for me on the MMM event? Anything you can provide me
                      with, especially a website or contact information, that I can put in to the
                      Executive Committee of the Civil War Heritage Foundation for the 2012
                      Schedule will be greatly appreciated.

                      Thanks for your help!

                      Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      G E "Gerry" Mayers

                      A Yankee by Birth but a Rebel by Choice!

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: _TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
                      [mailto:_TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_
                      (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com) ]On Behalf Of _MikeL49NYVI@..._ (mailto:MikeL49NYVI@...)
                      Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 8:30 AM
                      To: _TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Antietam to be re-enacted twice in Sept 2012

                      Gary:

                      Sure thing, I'll mention it to him when he responds to my last e-mail.
                      I might even get down there (I live near Buffalo, NY) this weekend to look
                      at the event site.

                      Our event is the weekend after Labor Day, Sept 8-9th. Labor Day is on
                      the 3rd next year, a lot get confused by that.

                      MMM stands for Maryland My Maryland much easier to just use MMM each
                      time. Plus we are doing some of South Mountain as well as Antietam.

                      The actual numbers of reenactors has been a topic of discussion and
                      debate for a few years now. At the Blue Gray Alliance meeting in St. Louis
                      last January the subject came up once again.

                      The general consensus there, considering the numbers at national,
                      regional, and local events, plus the economy, was estimated at about 12000
                      for
                      the Civil War all told.
                      Now, there is no way to know for sure, but here is some food for thought:

                      Most of the current Blue Gray Alliance leadership was around for much of
                      the 125th cycle of events that started the major reenacting push.
                      Gettysburg
                      (of course) was the focal point. At the 125th GB, there was, for the first
                      time, 10,000 reenactors in attendance.
                      If memory serves, that mark was not hit again until the 130th
                      Gettysburg, and the influx of new members that was spurred on by the Ken
                      Burns
                      series, and the movie "Glory" which happened about the same time.
                      The reenacting hobby grew steadily, until the 135th Antietam, which saw
                      close to 15,000, and the 135th Gettysburg that had close to 30,000
                      reenactors.

                      Those were the high points, but getting 3000-5000 at events like Cedar
                      Creek, Franklin, and others was a common occurrence for the next few years.

                      At the afore mentioned St. Louis meeting, we all agreed that last year's
                      1st Manassas would be a good indication of how large the hobby actually
                      was
                      anymore, since nearly every large organization was gong to be there, east
                      and west.
                      That event started out advertising 15,000 would be there, and they were
                      going to cut if off at that number.
                      But as registrations didn't pour in, that number was reduced to 12,000
                      cut-off. And realistically the site was too small for even that number.

                      However, the number of registered came in something like 8000. I do not
                      have the exact figure, but that is what I was told, and the returns from
                      the morning reports on Sat. were close to that. I got that 2nd hand from
                      the
                      commander of our brigade. But looking at the field, and comparing the
                      numbers from our battalion, to the size of the others, it is a very
                      reasonable
                      estimate.

                      Also organizations that used to have 200-300 in their regiments now
                      only regularly bring close to 120 for the major events, and this is
                      general
                      all across the country.

                      So, the actual results from the 1st large 150th anniversary event seem to
                      bear out the 12000 estimate. It could be a bit higher, people are unable
                      to
                      travel across the country like they used to, and many (like me) have lost
                      their jobs, so the money and vacation time is no longer there. But then
                      again if these others are not making the long trips anymore, then they
                      will not
                      be at the main 150th events anyway, so the 12000 number still seems to
                      fit.

                      Sorry to go on so long, but there is no simple way to explain what many
                      think is the condition of the hobby anymore. It is a good discussion, and
                      I'd
                      like to hear why others think it is much higher.

                      Mike L

                      In a message dated 12/8/2011 9:37:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                      _gerry1952@..._ (mailto:gerry1952@...) writes:

                      Mike,

                      I saw in the newspaper article the mention of Chris;s event but the story
                      was incomplete. Is Chris's event the weekend before? If so, it could be
                      Labor Day weekend (possibly).

                      What is MMM?

                      BTW I did contact Chris directly as per your earlier suggestion but have
                      not yet heard back from him either way. Can you check in with him and ask
                      him to respond soon to my note? I ask because I will need to submit the
                      information on the event to my Civil War4 Heritage Foundation living
                      history
                      group for their 2012 schedule for insurance coverage.

                      Thanks for the information; as to your comment on the CW reenacting
                      community not being as large, that might be debatable. What can be agreed
                      upon is
                      the growth in smaller, more regional events than were happening ten to
                      fifteen years ago.

                      Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      G E "Gerry" Mayers

                      A Yankee by Birth but a Rebel by Choice!

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: __TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_
                      (mailto:_TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com) _ (mailto:_TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_
                      (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com) )
                      [mailto:__TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_
                      (mailto:_TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com) _
                      (mailto:_TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_
                      (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com) ) ]On Behalf Of __MikeL49NYVI@..._ (mailto:_MikeL49NYVI@...) _
                      (mailto:_MikeL49NYVI@..._ (mailto:MikeL49NYVI@...) )
                      Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 1:19 PM
                      To: __TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:_TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com)
                      _ (mailto:_TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com_
                      (mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com) )
                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Antietam to be re-enacted twice in Sept 2012

                      It is interesting, isn't it?

                      In watching the video, I am amused to hear claims of "thousands of
                      reenactors" at these events. The hobby just is simply not that large
                      anymore.
                      Plus the 2nd one which involves some of the people that put on the yearly
                      Gettysburg event, is going to be the same weekend that the NPS is planning
                      on their observance of the battle. In fact there is going to be 3
                      observances of the anniversary of the battle.

                      I know of some who have committed to the NPS event, and a few will go
                      to the first reenactment, (Maryland My Maryland) and stay around for the
                      NPS. I also know of 5 large Federal reenactment organizations, plus
                      possibly
                      some parts of others, that will be at MMM. Not to mention the CSA forces
                      that have committed to it.

                      And, a few weeks afterwards, there is the 150th Vicksburg Campaign in
                      Mississippi, which most of the western groups will be supporting. Plus the
                      150th Perryville is the first week in October..............................

                      So all the potential forces that have been at the larger Antietam
                      reenactments in years past are splitting up, or are just not reenacting
                      the Civil
                      War any longer. There will not be "thousands of reenactors" at any of
                      these. We could very well get over 2000 for MMM but that will be the
                      largest of
                      the three.

                      But this is not so unusal, there are actually two Shiloh events this
                      March/April, both on the same weekend, and just down the road from each
                      other.

                      Yep, it is certainly interesting, and a bit amusing.
                      Mike Lavis

                      In a message dated 12/8/2011 11:54:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                      __RoteBaron@..._ (mailto:_RoteBaron@...) _
                      (mailto:_RoteBaron@..._ (mailto:RoteBaron@...) ) writes:

                      Two re-enactments of Battle of Antietam are planned — on back-to-back
                      weekends in September 2012.

                      Read the story at:

                      ___http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-battle-of-antietam-to-be-reenacted-twi
                      c_
                      (http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-battle-of-antietam-to-be-reenacted-twic)
                      e_
                      (_http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-battle-of-antietam-to-be-reenacted-twic
                      e_
                      (http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-battle-of-antietam-to-be-reenacted-twice) )
                      -in-september-2012-20111207,0,1047752.story_
                      (__http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-battle-of-antietam-to-be-reenacted-twi
                      c_
                      (http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-battle-of-antietam-to-be-reenacted-twic)
                      e-in-september-2012-20111207,0,1_
                      (_http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-battle-of-antietam-to-be-reenacted-twic
                      e-in-september-2012-20111207,0,1_
                      (http://www.herald-mail.com/news/hm-battle-of-antietam-to-be-reenacted-twice-in-september-2012-20111207,0,1) )
                      047752.story)

                      Tom Shay

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