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RE: [TalkAntietam] Question re Width of Hagerstown Turnpike

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  • Thomas G. Clemens
    It was pretty narrow. Two wagons could pass, but not much more. The fences were close, much closer that the way they have it now. They fenced it keep out
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 30, 2011
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      It was pretty narrow. Two wagons could pass, but not much more. The fences were close, much closer that the way they have it now. They fenced it keep out animals as muh as to restrict usage.


      ________________________________________
      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of G E Mayers [gerry1952@...]
      Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 4:46 PM
      To: TalkAntietam Group
      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Question re Width of Hagerstown Turnpike

      Gang,

      The other evening while reading the chapter on Antietam in Ed
      Bears's book "Fields of Honor", it occurred to me that rarely do
      you see anything indicated in the literature as to the actual
      width (fence to fence) of the Hagerstown Turnpike in September
      1862. You see photos showing the Turnpike, most notably the dead
      of Starke's Louisiana Brigade, taken on September 19th by
      Alexander Gardner, and the six rail fences that bordered each
      side in the literature but nothing about the actual width.

      So my question becomes, How wide was the Turnpike actually? Could
      two wagons pass each other north to south or was the road space
      only about a wagon width wide? Could a column of infantry massed
      eight across have marched on the pike or would a traditional
      column of four been best?

      Thanks for the help!

      Yr. Obt. Svt.
      G E "Gerry" Mayers

      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
      on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
      Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
      the Almighty God. --Anonymous



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    • G E Mayers
      Thanks Tom! Dave McGowan shared some photos taken in the early 20th or very late 19th century which gave me an idea of overall width of road. I would imagine
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 31, 2011
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        Thanks Tom! Dave McGowan shared some photos taken in the early 20th or very
        late 19th century which gave me an idea of overall width of road. I would
        imagine the present day road bed which passes by the Visitor Center is wider
        than the original was? Same for width of span from fence to fence?
        Yr. Obt. Svt.
        G E "Gerry" Mayers

        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one's
        mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a passport to
        any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty God. --Anonymous

        -----Original Message-----
        From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On
        Behalf Of Thomas G. Clemens
        Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 10:20 PM
        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Question re Width of Hagerstown Turnpike



        It was pretty narrow. Two wagons could pass, but not much more. The fences
        were close, much closer that the way they have it now. They fenced it keep
        out animals as muh as to restrict usage.

        ________________________________________
        From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] on
        behalf of G E Mayers [gerry1952@...]
        Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 4:46 PM
        To: TalkAntietam Group
        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Question re Width of Hagerstown Turnpike

        Gang,

        The other evening while reading the chapter on Antietam in Ed
        Bears's book "Fields of Honor", it occurred to me that rarely do
        you see anything indicated in the literature as to the actual
        width (fence to fence) of the Hagerstown Turnpike in September
        1862. You see photos showing the Turnpike, most notably the dead
        of Starke's Louisiana Brigade, taken on September 19th by
        Alexander Gardner, and the six rail fences that bordered each
        side in the literature but nothing about the actual width.

        So my question becomes, How wide was the Turnpike actually? Could
        two wagons pass each other north to south or was the road space
        only about a wagon width wide? Could a column of infantry massed
        eight across have marched on the pike or would a traditional
        column of four been best?

        Thanks for the help!

        Yr. Obt. Svt.
        G E "Gerry" Mayers

        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
        on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
        Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
        the Almighty God. --Anonymous

        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links

        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Thomas G. Clemens
        Yes, much wider. SHAF looked into paying to restore a portion of the road to its original look, narrow, with fences on immediate shoulders of the road, but it
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 31, 2011
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          Yes, much wider. SHAF looked into paying to restore a portion of the road to its original look, narrow, with fences on immediate shoulders of the road, but it is still a state road and MDOT will not allow it. Envision a road about 12 - 15 feet across with fences on both sides. A very narrow, confining space, and the fences too strongly built to be disassembled or knocked down. The photos bear witness that they resisted destruction, and several veterans' letters mention it too.

          ________________________________
          From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of G E Mayers [gerry1952@...]
          Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 10:56 AM
          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Question re Width of Hagerstown Turnpike



          Thanks Tom! Dave McGowan shared some photos taken in the early 20th or very
          late 19th century which gave me an idea of overall width of road. I would
          imagine the present day road bed which passes by the Visitor Center is wider
          than the original was? Same for width of span from fence to fence?
          Yr. Obt. Svt.
          G E "Gerry" Mayers

          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one's
          mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a passport to
          any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty God. --Anonymous

          -----Original Message-----
          From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com<mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com<mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>]On
          Behalf Of Thomas G. Clemens
          Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 10:20 PM
          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com<mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Question re Width of Hagerstown Turnpike

          It was pretty narrow. Two wagons could pass, but not much more. The fences
          were close, much closer that the way they have it now. They fenced it keep
          out animals as muh as to restrict usage.

          ________________________________________
          From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com<mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com> [TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com<mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>] on
          behalf of G E Mayers [gerry1952@...<mailto:gerry1952%40verizon.net>]
          Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 4:46 PM
          To: TalkAntietam Group
          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Question re Width of Hagerstown Turnpike

          Gang,

          The other evening while reading the chapter on Antietam in Ed
          Bears's book "Fields of Honor", it occurred to me that rarely do
          you see anything indicated in the literature as to the actual
          width (fence to fence) of the Hagerstown Turnpike in September
          1862. You see photos showing the Turnpike, most notably the dead
          of Starke's Louisiana Brigade, taken on September 19th by
          Alexander Gardner, and the six rail fences that bordered each
          side in the literature but nothing about the actual width.

          So my question becomes, How wide was the Turnpike actually? Could
          two wagons pass each other north to south or was the road space
          only about a wagon width wide? Could a column of infantry massed
          eight across have marched on the pike or would a traditional
          column of four been best?

          Thanks for the help!

          Yr. Obt. Svt.
          G E "Gerry" Mayers

          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
          on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
          Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
          the Almighty God. --Anonymous

          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links

          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • G E Mayers
          Tom; Good info. The famous photo by Gardner of Starke s Louisiana boys lying dead behind one side of the pike fences does show how strong they were. Yr. Obt.
          Message 4 of 7 , Jul 31, 2011
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            Tom;

            Good info. The famous photo by Gardner of Starke's Louisiana boys
            lying dead behind one side of the pike fences does show how
            strong they were.

            Yr. Obt. Svt.
            G E "Gerry" Mayers

            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
            on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
            Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
            the Almighty God. --Anonymous

            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
            > Thomas G. Clemens
            > Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 5:46 PM
            > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Question re Width of
            > Hagerstown Turnpike
            >
            >
            > Yes, much wider. SHAF looked into paying to restore a
            > portion of the road to its original look, narrow, with
            > fences on immediate shoulders of the road, but it is
            > still a state road and MDOT will not allow it.
            > Envision a road about 12 - 15 feet across with fences
            > on both sides. A very narrow, confining space, and
            > the fences too strongly built to be disassembled or
            > knocked down. The photos bear witness that they
            > resisted destruction, and several veterans' letters
            > mention it too.
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            > [TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of G E Mayers
            > [gerry1952@...]
            > Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 10:56 AM
            > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Question re Width of
            > Hagerstown Turnpike
            >
            >
            >
            > Thanks Tom! Dave McGowan shared some photos taken in
            > the early 20th or very
            > late 19th century which gave me an idea of overall
            > width of road. I would
            > imagine the present day road bed which passes by the
            > Visitor Center is wider
            > than the original was? Same for width of span from
            > fence to fence?
            > Yr. Obt. Svt.
            > G E "Gerry" Mayers
            >
            > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage,
            > adoption, or even on one's
            > mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
            > Union, a passport to
            > any foreign country, and a benediction from the
            > Almighty God. --Anonymous
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From:
            > TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com<mailto:TalkAntietam%40yaho
            > ogroups.com>
            > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com<mailto:TalkAntieta
            > m%40yahoogroups.com>]On
            > Behalf Of Thomas G. Clemens
            > Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 10:20 PM
            > To:
            > TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com<mailto:TalkAntietam%40yaho
            > ogroups.com>
            > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Question re Width of
            > Hagerstown Turnpike
            >
            > It was pretty narrow. Two wagons could pass, but not
            > much more. The fences
            > were close, much closer that the way they have it now.
            > They fenced it keep
            > out animals as muh as to restrict usage.
            >
            > ________________________________________
            > From:
            > TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com<mailto:TalkAntietam%40yaho
            > ogroups.com>
            > [TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com<mailto:TalkAntietam%40yah
            > oogroups.com>] on
            > behalf of G E Mayers
            > [gerry1952@...<mailto:gerry1952%40verizon.net>]
            > Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 4:46 PM
            > To: TalkAntietam Group
            > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Question re Width of
            > Hagerstown Turnpike
            >
            > Gang,
            >
            > The other evening while reading the chapter on Antietam in Ed
            > Bears's book "Fields of Honor", it occurred to me that
            > rarely do
            > you see anything indicated in the literature as to the actual
            > width (fence to fence) of the Hagerstown Turnpike in September
            > 1862. You see photos showing the Turnpike, most
            > notably the dead
            > of Starke's Louisiana Brigade, taken on September 19th by
            > Alexander Gardner, and the six rail fences that bordered each
            > side in the literature but nothing about the actual width.
            >
            > So my question becomes, How wide was the Turnpike
            > actually? Could
            > two wagons pass each other north to south or was the road space
            > only about a wagon width wide? Could a column of
            > infantry massed
            > eight across have marched on the pike or would a traditional
            > column of four been best?
            >
            > Thanks for the help!
            >
            > Yr. Obt. Svt.
            > G E "Gerry" Mayers
            >
            > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
            > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
            > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a
            > benediction from
            > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
          • eighth_conn_inf
            Gerry, I see that Carlisle s Army Heritage Trail recreated part of the CW Hagerstown Turnpike among other things:
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 4, 2011
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              Gerry,

              I see that Carlisle's Army Heritage Trail recreated part of the CW Hagerstown Turnpike among other things:

              http://www.carlisle.army.mil/AHEC/AHM/heritage.cfm

              I have not been there so I don't know how wide the rebuilt pike is shown.

              Larry

              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> wrote:
              >
              > Thanks Tom! Dave McGowan shared some photos taken in the early 20th or very
              > late 19th century which gave me an idea of overall width of road. I would
              > imagine the present day road bed which passes by the Visitor Center is wider
              > than the original was? Same for width of span from fence to fence?
              > Yr. Obt. Svt.
              > G E "Gerry" Mayers
              >
              >
            • G E Mayers
              Interesting! Maybe some others on the board have been there and can comment further? Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth,
              Message 6 of 7 , Aug 4, 2011
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                Interesting! Maybe some others on the board have been there and can comment
                further?

                Yr. Obt. Svt.
                G E "Gerry" Mayers

                To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one's
                mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a passport to
                any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty God. --Anonymous

                -----Original Message-----
                From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On
                Behalf Of eighth_conn_inf
                Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 9:54 AM
                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Question re Width of Hagerstown Turnpike



                Gerry,

                I see that Carlisle's Army Heritage Trail recreated part of the CW
                Hagerstown Turnpike among other things:

                http://www.carlisle.army.mil/AHEC/AHM/heritage.cfm

                I have not been there so I don't know how wide the rebuilt pike is shown.

                Larry

                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> wrote:
                >
                > Thanks Tom! Dave McGowan shared some photos taken in the early 20th or
                very
                > late 19th century which gave me an idea of overall width of road. I
                would
                > imagine the present day road bed which passes by the Visitor Center is
                wider
                > than the original was? Same for width of span from fence to fence?
                > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                >
                >






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