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Relic from Hagerstown GAR post

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  • Stephen
    Does anyone know any dealers out there with some inventory of artifacts from the Hagerstown GAR post? I see stuff occasionally on Ebay and other locations,
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 17, 2011
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      Does anyone know any dealers out there with some inventory of artifacts from the Hagerstown GAR post? I see stuff occasionally on Ebay and other locations, and the dealers tend to be local.

      Apparently, when the GAR post closed, the majority of the relics that decorated their hall were purchased for a private museum in Sharpsburg, and the collection was broken up within the last 30 years or so.

      This is all scuttlebutt, so forgive me if there are factual errors in the above description, but it generally represents the trail of the collection.

      I would be interested in purchasing an item or two (I work in the building which is on the location of the GAR hall site), if they can be had for reasonable prices. I missed a canteen on ebay last month from the 4th US Cavalry that was part of the collection. It didn't sell and the owner sold it privately. Rats.

      Anyway...any guidance would be appreciated.

      Thanks.
      Steve Bockmiller
    • Matt Reardon
      Steve, According to Federal law when a GAR Post disbanded, all their items including relics, post records were supposed to be sent to the department
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 17, 2011
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        Steve,

        According to Federal law when a GAR Post disbanded, all their items including
        relics, post records were supposed to be sent to the department headquarters. 
        When the GAR disbanded all their property became property of the Sons of Union
        Veterans, the GAR's legal heir.  It's actually illegal for any town or person to
        sell GAR property.  If anyone see anyone trying to sell these items, you contact
        the Sons of Union Veterans. 


        Matt Reardon
        Department Historian
        Department of Connecticut
        Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War



        ________________________________
        From: Stephen <jeffcowvplanning@...>
        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Mon, January 17, 2011 3:40:56 PM
        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Relic from Hagerstown GAR post

         
        Does anyone know any dealers out there with some inventory of artifacts from the
        Hagerstown GAR post? I see stuff occasionally on Ebay and other locations, and
        the dealers tend to be local.

        Apparently, when the GAR post closed, the majority of the relics that decorated
        their hall were purchased for a private museum in Sharpsburg, and the collection
        was broken up within the last 30 years or so.

        This is all scuttlebutt, so forgive me if there are factual errors in the above
        description, but it generally represents the trail of the collection.

        I would be interested in purchasing an item or two (I work in the building which
        is on the location of the GAR hall site), if they can be had for reasonable
        prices. I missed a canteen on ebay last month from the 4th US Cavalry that was
        part of the collection. It didn't sell and the owner sold it privately. Rats.

        Anyway...any guidance would be appreciated.

        Thanks.
        Steve Bockmiller


        n




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Harry
        Then you may want to have a look at this:
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 17, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          Then you may want to have a look at this:

          http://cgi.ebay.com/original-anteitam-battlefield-relic-rebel-tin-canteen-/330519197798?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cf47ab866

          HArry

          From: Matt Reardon
          Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 4:31 PM
          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Relic from Hagerstown GAR post


          Steve,

          According to Federal law when a GAR Post disbanded, all their items including
          relics, post records were supposed to be sent to the department headquarters.
          When the GAR disbanded all their property became property of the Sons of Union
          Veterans, the GAR's legal heir. It's actually illegal for any town or person to
          sell GAR property. If anyone see anyone trying to sell these items, you contact
          the Sons of Union Veterans.

          Matt Reardon
          Department Historian
          Department of Connecticut
          Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War

          ________________________________
          From: Stephen <mailto:jeffcowvplanning%40yahoo.com>
          To: mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Mon, January 17, 2011 3:40:56 PM
          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Relic from Hagerstown GAR post


          Does anyone know any dealers out there with some inventory of artifacts from the
          Hagerstown GAR post? I see stuff occasionally on Ebay and other locations, and
          the dealers tend to be local.

          Apparently, when the GAR post closed, the majority of the relics that decorated
          their hall were purchased for a private museum in Sharpsburg, and the collection
          was broken up within the last 30 years or so.

          This is all scuttlebutt, so forgive me if there are factual errors in the above
          description, but it generally represents the trail of the collection.

          I would be interested in purchasing an item or two (I work in the building which
          is on the location of the GAR hall site), if they can be had for reasonable
          prices. I missed a canteen on ebay last month from the 4th US Cavalry that was
          part of the collection. It didn't sell and the owner sold it privately. Rats.

          Anyway...any guidance would be appreciated.

          Thanks.
          Steve Bockmiller

          n

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Robert Moore
          Oh, yes... I d say that would count as GAR property... marking and all Robert Sr. Vice Cdr., Dept of Md., SUVCW ________________________________ From: Harry
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 17, 2011
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            Oh, yes... I'd say that would count as GAR property... marking and all

            Robert
            Sr. Vice Cdr., Dept of Md., SUVCW





            ________________________________
            From: Harry <hjs21@...>
            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Mon, January 17, 2011 4:49:55 PM
            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Relic from Hagerstown GAR post


            Then you may want to have a look at this:

            http://cgi.ebay.com/original-anteitam-battlefield-relic-rebel-tin-canteen-/330519197798?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cf47ab866


            HArry

            From: Matt Reardon
            Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 4:31 PM
            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Relic from Hagerstown GAR post

            Steve,

            According to Federal law when a GAR Post disbanded, all their items including
            relics, post records were supposed to be sent to the department headquarters.
            When the GAR disbanded all their property became property of the Sons of Union
            Veterans, the GAR's legal heir. It's actually illegal for any town or person to

            sell GAR property. If anyone see anyone trying to sell these items, you contact

            the Sons of Union Veterans.

            Matt Reardon
            Department Historian
            Department of Connecticut
            Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War

            ________________________________
            From: Stephen <mailto:jeffcowvplanning%40yahoo.com>
            To: mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Mon, January 17, 2011 3:40:56 PM
            Subject: [TalkAntietam] Relic from Hagerstown GAR post

            Does anyone know any dealers out there with some inventory of artifacts from the

            Hagerstown GAR post? I see stuff occasionally on Ebay and other locations, and
            the dealers tend to be local.

            Apparently, when the GAR post closed, the majority of the relics that decorated
            their hall were purchased for a private museum in Sharpsburg, and the collection

            was broken up within the last 30 years or so.

            This is all scuttlebutt, so forgive me if there are factual errors in the above
            description, but it generally represents the trail of the collection.

            I would be interested in purchasing an item or two (I work in the building which

            is on the location of the GAR hall site), if they can be had for reasonable
            prices. I missed a canteen on ebay last month from the 4th US Cavalry that was
            part of the collection. It didn't sell and the owner sold it privately. Rats.

            Anyway...any guidance would be appreciated.

            Thanks.
            Steve Bockmiller

            n

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Ian Workman
            I would be very weary about buying anything with the GAR tags. They are heavily faked and someone local has the emossing tool. All of these items are thought
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 17, 2011
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              I would be very weary about buying anything with the GAR tags. They are
              heavily faked and someone local has the emossing tool. All of these items
              are thought to be bad by local collectors as none of them can actually be
              traced to any substantial source.

              The canteen which you spoke of was probably faked. I had a friend email me
              about the canteen when it was up for sale. The leather strap wasn't right
              and he and I both agreed that that piece was a put together. The strap on
              the canteen was actually from a model 1909 canteen and it was undone and run
              through the strap.

              There are also marked swords floating around out there. I was threatened
              with a lawsuit for condeming the first sword when a week later an exact
              other one showed up on ebay. Because there are so many duplicates and Indian
              War items marked as Reno post items I do not mess with any of them as they
              have obviously been tampered with. There was even an armstrong shell listed
              as having come through the Reno Post. These shells weren't even in use at
              the time so I am not sure what that shell would have been doing there unless
              it was an O.T. import piece.

              It is perfectly legal to sell any GAR piece unless it is from a gravesite
              (i.e. marker). You would be hard pressed to find any information about
              whether the item was properly deaccesioned or stolen property. Most halls
              did sell everything when they weren't being used anymore and that is why the
              market is full of items from GAR halls.

              Ian Workman
              Packhorse Ford Relics

              On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 5:09 PM, Robert Moore <cenantua@...> wrote:

              >
              >
              > Oh, yes... I'd say that would count as GAR property... marking and all
              >
              > Robert
              > Sr. Vice Cdr., Dept of Md., SUVCW
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: Harry <hjs21@... <hjs21%40comcast.net>>
              > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com <TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Mon, January 17, 2011 4:49:55 PM
              >
              > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Relic from Hagerstown GAR post
              >
              > Then you may want to have a look at this:
              >
              >
              > http://cgi.ebay.com/original-anteitam-battlefield-relic-rebel-tin-canteen-/330519197798?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cf47ab866
              >
              > HArry
              >
              > From: Matt Reardon
              > Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 4:31 PM
              > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com <TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
              > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Relic from Hagerstown GAR post
              >
              > Steve,
              >
              > According to Federal law when a GAR Post disbanded, all their items
              > including
              > relics, post records were supposed to be sent to the department
              > headquarters.
              > When the GAR disbanded all their property became property of the Sons of
              > Union
              > Veterans, the GAR's legal heir. It's actually illegal for any town or
              > person to
              >
              > sell GAR property. If anyone see anyone trying to sell these items, you
              > contact
              >
              > the Sons of Union Veterans.
              >
              > Matt Reardon
              > Department Historian
              > Department of Connecticut
              > Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: Stephen <mailto:jeffcowvplanning%40yahoo.com<jeffcowvplanning%2540yahoo.com>
              > >
              > To: mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com<TalkAntietam%2540yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Mon, January 17, 2011 3:40:56 PM
              > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Relic from Hagerstown GAR post
              >
              > Does anyone know any dealers out there with some inventory of artifacts
              > from the
              >
              > Hagerstown GAR post? I see stuff occasionally on Ebay and other locations,
              > and
              > the dealers tend to be local.
              >
              > Apparently, when the GAR post closed, the majority of the relics that
              > decorated
              > their hall were purchased for a private museum in Sharpsburg, and the
              > collection
              >
              > was broken up within the last 30 years or so.
              >
              > This is all scuttlebutt, so forgive me if there are factual errors in the
              > above
              > description, but it generally represents the trail of the collection.
              >
              > I would be interested in purchasing an item or two (I work in the building
              > which
              >
              > is on the location of the GAR hall site), if they can be had for reasonable
              >
              > prices. I missed a canteen on ebay last month from the 4th US Cavalry that
              > was
              > part of the collection. It didn't sell and the owner sold it privately.
              > Rats.
              >
              > Anyway...any guidance would be appreciated.
              >
              > Thanks.
              > Steve Bockmiller
              >
              > n
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Stephen
              Ian and others... Thank you for the guidance on this issue. I will let the issue slide. A shame, as I was thinking about proposing a small exhibit in City
              Message 6 of 7 , Jan 18, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Ian and others...
                Thank you for the guidance on this issue. I will let the issue slide. A shame, as I was thinking about proposing a small exhibit in City Hall to commemorate the GAR hall that was within the predecessor building.

                I wonder who has the embossing tool.....hmmm. What kind of loon would fake GAR stuff?

                Steve Bockmiller

                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Ian Workman <cwdigger@...> wrote:
                >
                > I would be very weary about buying anything with the GAR tags. They are
                > heavily faked and someone local has the emossing tool. All of these items
                > are thought to be bad by local collectors as none of them can actually be
                > traced to any substantial source.
                >
                > The canteen which you spoke of was probably faked. I had a friend email me
                > about the canteen when it was up for sale. The leather strap wasn't right
                > and he and I both agreed that that piece was a put together. The strap on
                > the canteen was actually from a model 1909 canteen and it was undone and run
                > through the strap.
                >
                > There are also marked swords floating around out there. I was threatened
                > with a lawsuit for condeming the first sword when a week later an exact
                > other one showed up on ebay. Because there are so many duplicates and Indian
                > War items marked as Reno post items I do not mess with any of them as they
                > have obviously been tampered with. There was even an armstrong shell listed
                > as having come through the Reno Post. These shells weren't even in use at
                > the time so I am not sure what that shell would have been doing there unless
                > it was an O.T. import piece.
                >
                > It is perfectly legal to sell any GAR piece unless it is from a gravesite
                > (i.e. marker). You would be hard pressed to find any information about
                > whether the item was properly deaccesioned or stolen property. Most halls
                > did sell everything when they weren't being used anymore and that is why the
                > market is full of items from GAR halls.
                >
                > Ian Workman
                > Packhorse Ford Relics
                >
                > On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 5:09 PM, Robert Moore <cenantua@...> wrote:
                >
                > >
                > >
                > > Oh, yes... I'd say that would count as GAR property... marking and all
                > >
                > > Robert
                > > Sr. Vice Cdr., Dept of Md., SUVCW
                > >
                > > ________________________________
                > > From: Harry <hjs21@... <hjs21%40comcast.net>>
                > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com <TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                > > Sent: Mon, January 17, 2011 4:49:55 PM
                > >
                > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Relic from Hagerstown GAR post
                > >
                > > Then you may want to have a look at this:
                > >
                > >
                > > http://cgi.ebay.com/original-anteitam-battlefield-relic-rebel-tin-canteen-/330519197798?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cf47ab866
                > >
                > > HArry
                > >
                > > From: Matt Reardon
                > > Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 4:31 PM
                > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com <TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Relic from Hagerstown GAR post
                > >
                > > Steve,
                > >
                > > According to Federal law when a GAR Post disbanded, all their items
                > > including
                > > relics, post records were supposed to be sent to the department
                > > headquarters.
                > > When the GAR disbanded all their property became property of the Sons of
                > > Union
                > > Veterans, the GAR's legal heir. It's actually illegal for any town or
                > > person to
                > >
                > > sell GAR property. If anyone see anyone trying to sell these items, you
                > > contact
                > >
                > > the Sons of Union Veterans.
                > >
                > > Matt Reardon
                > > Department Historian
                > > Department of Connecticut
                > > Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War
                > >
                > > ________________________________
                > > From: Stephen <mailto:jeffcowvplanning%40yahoo.com<jeffcowvplanning%2540yahoo.com>
                > > >
                > > To: mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com<TalkAntietam%2540yahoogroups.com>
                > > Sent: Mon, January 17, 2011 3:40:56 PM
                > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Relic from Hagerstown GAR post
                > >
                > > Does anyone know any dealers out there with some inventory of artifacts
                > > from the
                > >
                > > Hagerstown GAR post? I see stuff occasionally on Ebay and other locations,
                > > and
                > > the dealers tend to be local.
                > >
                > > Apparently, when the GAR post closed, the majority of the relics that
                > > decorated
                > > their hall were purchased for a private museum in Sharpsburg, and the
                > > collection
                > >
                > > was broken up within the last 30 years or so.
                > >
                > > This is all scuttlebutt, so forgive me if there are factual errors in the
                > > above
                > > description, but it generally represents the trail of the collection.
                > >
                > > I would be interested in purchasing an item or two (I work in the building
                > > which
                > >
                > > is on the location of the GAR hall site), if they can be had for reasonable
                > >
                > > prices. I missed a canteen on ebay last month from the 4th US Cavalry that
                > > was
                > > part of the collection. It didn't sell and the owner sold it privately.
                > > Rats.
                > >
                > > Anyway...any guidance would be appreciated.
                > >
                > > Thanks.
                > > Steve Bockmiller
                > >
                > > n
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Ian Workman
                Steve, As long as there is money to be made there will always be someone willing to risk their integrity for a little bit of money. I was forwarded and email
                Message 7 of 7 , Jan 19, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  Steve,

                  As long as there is money to be made there will always be someone willing to
                  risk their integrity for a little bit of money. I was forwarded and email
                  from a friend who emailed the seller about that canteen. The seller said
                  that he pulled the canteen because he realized it wasn't the real thing.
                  Hopefully he didn't turn around and sell it once he pulled it off ebay.

                  I believe that you guys should still do an exhibit. A lot of people don't
                  know where the actual building was or what was in it. G.A.R. halls have a
                  history of their own and it should be shared with others.

                  Sincerely,
                  Ian Workman
                  Packhorse Ford Relics

                  On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 12:20 AM, Stephen <jeffcowvplanning@...>wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > Ian and others...
                  > Thank you for the guidance on this issue. I will let the issue slide. A
                  > shame, as I was thinking about proposing a small exhibit in City Hall to
                  > commemorate the GAR hall that was within the predecessor building.
                  >
                  > I wonder who has the embossing tool.....hmmm. What kind of loon would fake
                  > GAR stuff?
                  >
                  > Steve Bockmiller
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com <TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>, Ian
                  > Workman <cwdigger@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I would be very weary about buying anything with the GAR tags. They are
                  > > heavily faked and someone local has the emossing tool. All of these items
                  > > are thought to be bad by local collectors as none of them can actually be
                  > > traced to any substantial source.
                  > >
                  > > The canteen which you spoke of was probably faked. I had a friend email
                  > me
                  > > about the canteen when it was up for sale. The leather strap wasn't right
                  > > and he and I both agreed that that piece was a put together. The strap on
                  > > the canteen was actually from a model 1909 canteen and it was undone and
                  > run
                  > > through the strap.
                  > >
                  > > There are also marked swords floating around out there. I was threatened
                  > > with a lawsuit for condeming the first sword when a week later an exact
                  > > other one showed up on ebay. Because there are so many duplicates and
                  > Indian
                  > > War items marked as Reno post items I do not mess with any of them as
                  > they
                  > > have obviously been tampered with. There was even an armstrong shell
                  > listed
                  > > as having come through the Reno Post. These shells weren't even in use at
                  > > the time so I am not sure what that shell would have been doing there
                  > unless
                  > > it was an O.T. import piece.
                  > >
                  > > It is perfectly legal to sell any GAR piece unless it is from a gravesite
                  > > (i.e. marker). You would be hard pressed to find any information about
                  > > whether the item was properly deaccesioned or stolen property. Most halls
                  > > did sell everything when they weren't being used anymore and that is why
                  > the
                  > > market is full of items from GAR halls.
                  > >
                  > > Ian Workman
                  > > Packhorse Ford Relics
                  > >
                  > > On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 5:09 PM, Robert Moore <cenantua@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Oh, yes... I'd say that would count as GAR property... marking and all
                  > > >
                  > > > Robert
                  > > > Sr. Vice Cdr., Dept of Md., SUVCW
                  > > >
                  > > > ________________________________
                  > > > From: Harry <hjs21@... <hjs21%40comcast.net>>
                  > > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com <TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com><TalkAntietam%
                  > 40yahoogroups.com>
                  >
                  > > > Sent: Mon, January 17, 2011 4:49:55 PM
                  > > >
                  > > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Relic from Hagerstown GAR post
                  > > >
                  > > > Then you may want to have a look at this:
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > http://cgi.ebay.com/original-anteitam-battlefield-relic-rebel-tin-canteen-/330519197798?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cf47ab866
                  > > >
                  > > > HArry
                  > > >
                  > > > From: Matt Reardon
                  > > > Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 4:31 PM
                  > > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com <TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com><TalkAntietam%
                  > 40yahoogroups.com>
                  >
                  > > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Relic from Hagerstown GAR post
                  > > >
                  > > > Steve,
                  > > >
                  > > > According to Federal law when a GAR Post disbanded, all their items
                  > > > including
                  > > > relics, post records were supposed to be sent to the department
                  > > > headquarters.
                  > > > When the GAR disbanded all their property became property of the Sons
                  > of
                  > > > Union
                  > > > Veterans, the GAR's legal heir. It's actually illegal for any town or
                  > > > person to
                  > > >
                  > > > sell GAR property. If anyone see anyone trying to sell these items, you
                  > > > contact
                  > > >
                  > > > the Sons of Union Veterans.
                  > > >
                  > > > Matt Reardon
                  > > > Department Historian
                  > > > Department of Connecticut
                  > > > Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War
                  > > >
                  > > > ________________________________
                  > > > From: Stephen <mailto:jeffcowvplanning%40yahoo.com<jeffcowvplanning%2540yahoo.com>
                  > <jeffcowvplanning%2540yahoo.com>
                  > > > >
                  > > > To: mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com<TalkAntietam%2540yahoogroups.com>
                  > <TalkAntietam%2540yahoogroups.com>
                  >
                  > > > Sent: Mon, January 17, 2011 3:40:56 PM
                  > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Relic from Hagerstown GAR post
                  > > >
                  > > > Does anyone know any dealers out there with some inventory of artifacts
                  > > > from the
                  > > >
                  > > > Hagerstown GAR post? I see stuff occasionally on Ebay and other
                  > locations,
                  > > > and
                  > > > the dealers tend to be local.
                  > > >
                  > > > Apparently, when the GAR post closed, the majority of the relics that
                  > > > decorated
                  > > > their hall were purchased for a private museum in Sharpsburg, and the
                  > > > collection
                  > > >
                  > > > was broken up within the last 30 years or so.
                  > > >
                  > > > This is all scuttlebutt, so forgive me if there are factual errors in
                  > the
                  > > > above
                  > > > description, but it generally represents the trail of the collection.
                  > > >
                  > > > I would be interested in purchasing an item or two (I work in the
                  > building
                  > > > which
                  > > >
                  > > > is on the location of the GAR hall site), if they can be had for
                  > reasonable
                  > > >
                  > > > prices. I missed a canteen on ebay last month from the 4th US Cavalry
                  > that
                  > > > was
                  > > > part of the collection. It didn't sell and the owner sold it privately.
                  > > > Rats.
                  > > >
                  > > > Anyway...any guidance would be appreciated.
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks.
                  > > > Steve Bockmiller
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                  > > > n
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                  > > >
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