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Re: [TalkAntietam] Special Order 191: Ruse of War? Addendum

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  • G E Mayers
    Dear Tom, I will send it to your home email address. Thanks! I think you probably will be able to send it to me by snail before March. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 12, 2010
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      Dear Tom,

      I will send it to your home email address. Thanks!

      I think you probably will be able to send it to me by snail before March.

      Yr. Obt. Svt.
      G E "Gerry" Mayers

      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty God. --Anonymous
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 9:48 PM
      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Special Order 191: Ruse of War? Addendum


      > Sure, send me your mailing address. It won't be until I get back to the office again. At this rate, maybe March?
      >
      > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
      > Professor of History
      > Hagerstown Community College
      >
      >
      >>>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> 02/11/10 12:57 PM >>>
      > Dear Tom,
      >
      > I asked my wife about the fax number for her work etc. She said it is not exactly a good idea. Can you drop the information in the mail to me if I give you my snail address? Or, if you still have it, can you simply mail me the info?
      >
      > Yr. Obt. Svt.
      > G E "Gerry" Mayers
      >
      > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty God. --Anonymous
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
      > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 9:34 AM
      > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Special Order 191: Ruse of War? Addendum
      >
      >
      > I have a print out from our library with the MLA format for citing all kinds of stuff. Give me a fax # and I can send you a copy.
      >
      > Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
      > Professor of History
      > Hagerstown Community College
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >>>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> 1/28/2010 9:24 AM >>>
      >
      > Ok.
      >
      > BTW did you ever find the sources you mentioned to me the other
      > week on proper citations for books or other media found on the
      > Internet?
      >
      > Yr. Obt. Svt.
      > G E "Gerry" Mayers
      >
      > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
      > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
      > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
      > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
      > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 9:21 AM
      > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Special Order 191: Ruse of War?
      > Addendum
      >
      > No, I don't have time for the inevitable argument that would
      > ensue.
      >
      > Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
      > Professor of History
      > Hagerstown Community College
      >
      >>>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> 1/27/2010 4:48 PM >>>
      >
      > Tom,
      >
      > Thanks for the link to the footnotes.
      >
      > You might want to contact the author directly via his email link
      > at the end of his piece.
      >
      > Yr. Obt. Svt.
      > G E "Gerry" Mayers
      >
      > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
      > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
      > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
      > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
      > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 4:45 PM
      > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Special Order 191: Ruse of War?
      > Addendum
      >
      > Gerry,
      > Go to the bottom and click on the button for the end notes. It
      > confused me at first.
      >
      > Echoing Gerry, Ryan ignores a number of things that trouble me.
      > No mention of the Lee-Davis communications, where states his
      > intentions of going to Hagerstown and beyond, not getting into
      > the Shenandoah, which he could have easily done from Manassas if
      > he'd wanted to. He states that assumption several times, never
      > footnoting it. He has some troops out of position time-wise,
      > Like Lee & Longstreet in Boonsboro on Sept. 10. NO. Wagons
      > leaving Hagerstown for Williamsport on the 13th. NO.
      > He also has Lee planning to fight at Sharpsburg based on a map
      > in Frederick, so how did he know the terrain in Sharpsburg was
      > suitable? What contour map did he looked at? And if it was his
      > intention to draw McClellan away from Crampton's and to Turner's
      > Gap, why was Turner's held in such small force? If Stuart is
      > part of this conspiracy why did he leave Turner's For Crampton's
      > Gap? Should not he have "known" where the attack would come? In
      > fact, why did Lee go to Hagerstown at all? Why not lay in wait
      > to spring the trap? He also suggests Lee knew McClellan was in
      > command when he wrote S.O. 191, which is not footnoted, nor
      > proven. Joe Harsh had serious doubts, and so do I. The paper and
      > handwriting analysis is interesting, but not probative of
      > anything. And I wonder if there is universal acceptance of this
      > idea that everybody is a competent handwriting analyst.
      >
      > Oh, and I have a letter to Carman from Marshall stating that Lee
      > did not know 191 had been found until he read McClellan's report
      > months later. He also said if they'd know how close McClellan
      > was Lee would have left a larger force to guard Turner's Gap. It
      > sounds to me like Marshall is faintly criticizing the "Beau
      > Sabuer" for lack of intelligence gathering.
      >
      > Nice argument counselor, but do you really expect us to convict
      > anybody on this evidence?
      >
      > Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
      > Professor of History
      > Hagerstown Community College
      >
      >>>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> 1/27/2010 4:26 PM >>>
      >
      > Tom,
      >
      > It bothers me very much that the article is there but not the
      > sourcing for the numerous footnotes.
      >
      > Yr. Obt. Svt.
      > G E "Gerry" Mayers
      >
      > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
      > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
      > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
      > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: <RoteBaron@...>
      > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 12:21 PM
      > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Special Order 191: Ruse of War?
      >
      >>
      >>
      >> Joseph Ryan has posted an interesting article online entitled
      >> "Special Order 191: Ruse of War?"
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> You can find it at the MHO website
      >> http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> His premise is that Lee intentionally planted SO 191 for
      >> Federals to find.
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> He states that Lee "had tricked McClellan into thinking,
      >> throwing his main weight against Crampton's Gap would expose
      >> him to an attack from Lee's main body at Turner's Gap, and now
      >> Lee had a good chance to draw McClellan into battle at
      >> Sharpsburg."
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> He does raise some interesting points, such as why the found
      >> copy is in good shape, when it likely laid in the filed during
      >> the all-day storm of Sept 11th.
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> Also, why didn't Lee ever investigate the matter of how the
      >> copy got lost.
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> Read the article and let me know your thoughts!
      >>
      >> Tom Shay
      >>
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      >>
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