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[TalkAntietam] 9th NY & 8th CT

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  • Matt Reardon
    Hi all,   I ve been doing a lot of research into the IX Corps attack late in the day.  After visiting Antietam a few months ago, I saw that the 8th CT and
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 21, 2009
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      Hi all,
       
      I've been doing a lot of research into the IX Corps attack late in the day.  After visiting Antietam a few months ago, I saw that the 8th CT and 9th NY monuments are very close to each other.  Each claiming that this was the point to which they advanced to.  Now I know that the 8th CT and 9th NY never fought this close together.  The 8th CT advanced towards the Harper's Ferry Rd and the 9th NY wheeled towards Sharpsburg.  Is there any reason why these two monuments are where they are?
       
      Thanks for any help,
       
      Matt




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • G E Mayers
      Bob Hellmers; If you go to the Antietam on the Web website, all your basic questions will be answered.... Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian,
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 22, 2009
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        Bob Hellmers;

        If you go to the Antietam on the Web website, all your basic
        questions will be answered....

        Yr. Obt. Svt.
        G E "Gerry" Mayers

        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
        on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
        Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
        the Almighty God. --Anonymous
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Bob" <hellmersbob@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 9:05 PM
        Subject: [TalkAntietam] introduction


        hello new to the group, i am someone who likes history,
        especially the civil war and wanted to chat with anyone about
        antietam, my question is how many confederates were in the sunken
        road and what commander did they belong to? the confederates did
        well at antietam considering they were outnumbered. i haveseen
        pictures in books of the sunken road with confederate dead. hope
        to hear from someone. bob hellmers
      • G E Mayers
        Bob; Harry was reallllyyyyy pulling your leg on that response. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 22, 2009
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          Bob;

          Harry was reallllyyyyy pulling your leg on that response.

          Yr. Obt. Svt.
          G E "Gerry" Mayers

          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
          on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
          Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
          the Almighty God. --Anonymous
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Bob Hellmers" <hellmersbob@...>
          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 10:39 PM
          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] introduction


          no not really , theyre were not 750,000 union troops at antietam
          and the confederates did not kill 150,000 at antietam but thanks
          for welcoming me




          ________________________________
          From: Harry Smeltzer <hjs21@...>
          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sat, November 21, 2009 9:54:33 PM
          Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] introduction


          As everyone knows, the Confederates consisted of Robert E. Lee
          and a
          one-armed orderly, arrayed against 750,000 fresh, well trained,
          and battle
          hardened Union troops. Photos of supposed Confederate dead were
          manufactured by George McClellan later to hide the fact that Lee
          and his
          batman killed 150,000 Federal troops, and wounded another
          200,000. The two
          left the field in a buggy, Lee shooting a moon the whole way.
          McClellan saw
          it all through a glass (and darkly), but was too busy plotting to
          become
          President - and hating his mother despite an Oedipal complex - to
          bother
          pursuing.. See "Landscape Turned Red" page beginning to page end.

          Hope this helps!

          Harry

          (Welcome, by the way)

          -----Original Message-----
          From: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:TalkAntietam@
          yahoogroups. com] On
          Behalf Of Bob
          Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 9:06 PM
          To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
          Subject: [TalkAntietam] introduction

          hello new to the group, i am someone who likes history,
          especially the civil
          war and wanted to chat with anyone about antietam, my question is
          how many
          confederates were in the sunken road and what commander did they
          belong to?
          the confederates did well at antietam considering they were
          outnumbered. i
          haveseen pictures in books of the sunken road with confederate
          dead. hope to
          hear from someone. bob hellmers

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • G E Mayers
          Matt; You might want to contact Antietam NBP for that one. Or go to www.nps.gov/anti and see if you can find out anything that way. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 22, 2009
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            Matt;

            You might want to contact Antietam NBP for that one. Or go to
            www.nps.gov/anti and see if you can find out anything that way.

            Yr. Obt. Svt.
            G E "Gerry" Mayers

            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
            on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
            Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
            the Almighty God. --Anonymous
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Matt Reardon" <mreardon1862@...>
            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:00 PM
            Subject: [TalkAntietam] 9th NY & 8th CT


            Hi all,

            I've been doing a lot of research into the IX Corps attack late
            in the day. After visiting Antietam a few months ago, I saw that
            the 8th CT and 9th NY monuments are very close to each other.
            Each claiming that this was the point to which they advanced to.
            Now I know that the 8th CT and 9th NY never fought this close
            together. The 8th CT advanced towards the Harper's Ferry Rd and
            the 9th NY wheeled towards Sharpsburg. Is there any reason why
            these two monuments are where they are?

            Thanks for any help,

            Matt




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Dave
            Matt, a bit of the story is recounted in Susan Trail s masterpiece of a dissertation Remembering Antietam, on pages 258 and following. Looks like the 8th Conn
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 22, 2009
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              Matt, a bit of the story is recounted in Susan Trail's masterpiece of a
              dissertation Remembering Antietam, on pages 258 and following. Looks
              like the 8th Conn monument was dedicated on 10/10/94 and the 9th NY was
              dedicated on 5/30/97 after a lot of haggling over pieces of land that
              the farmers wanted exorbitant prices for and a mistake by the 9th in
              buying property in the wrong place.

              Guys, would it be ok to post that dissertation here in the files
              section? Or can someone send him a link? It's 32 MB.

              Dave McGowan


              Matt Reardon wrote:
              >
              > Hi all,
              >
              > I've been doing a lot of research into the IX Corps attack late in the
              > day. After visiting Antietam a few months ago, I saw that the 8th CT
              > and 9th NY monuments are very close to each other. Each claiming that
              > this was the point to which they advanced to. Now I know that the 8th
              > CT and 9th NY never fought this close together. The 8th CT advanced
              > towards the Harper's Ferry Rd and the 9th NY wheeled towards
              > Sharpsburg. Is there any reason why these two monuments are where they
              > are?
              >
              > Thanks for any help,
              >
              > Matt
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
            • eighth_conn_inf
              See message #5938 for the link to her dissertation.
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 22, 2009
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                See message #5938 for the link to her dissertation.

                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Dave <gewehr@...> wrote:
                >
                > Matt, a bit of the story is recounted in Susan Trail's masterpiece of a
                > dissertation Remembering Antietam, on pages 258 and following. Looks
                > like the 8th Conn monument was dedicated on 10/10/94 and the 9th NY was
                > dedicated on 5/30/97 after a lot of haggling over pieces of land that
                > the farmers wanted exorbitant prices for and a mistake by the 9th in
                > buying property in the wrong place.
                >
                > Guys, would it be ok to post that dissertation here in the files
                > section? Or can someone send him a link? It's 32 MB.
                >
                > Dave McGowan
                >
                >
                > Matt Reardon wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi all,
                > >
                > > I've been doing a lot of research into the IX Corps attack late in the
                > > day. After visiting Antietam a few months ago, I saw that the 8th CT
                > > and 9th NY monuments are very close to each other. Each claiming that
                > > this was the point to which they advanced to. Now I know that the 8th
                > > CT and 9th NY never fought this close together. The 8th CT advanced
                > > towards the Harper's Ferry Rd and the 9th NY wheeled towards
                > > Sharpsburg. Is there any reason why these two monuments are where they
                > > are?
                > >
                > > Thanks for any help,
                > >
                > > Matt
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                >
              • Matt Reardon
                Thanks everyone.   I have tried to contact the NPS, never got a response back.  I also went to Post #5938, linked there was a book about the US Signal Corps.
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 22, 2009
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                  Thanks everyone.
                   
                  I have tried to contact the NPS, never got a response back.  I also went to Post #5938, linked there was a book about the US Signal Corps.
                   
                  My next question probably won't have an answer.  Why does the NPS continue to tell people that the 9th NY advanced the farthest at that point when we all know they didn't?  And why do they get their monument on the park guide map? 
                   
                  Why is one units monument better than any of the others?
                   
                  Just a little side note.  My interest in these monuments stems from my relation with the 8th Connecticut.  It was my g-g-g grandfathers first battle.  He served in Co. G.
                   
                  Thanks again,
                  Matt

                  --- On Sun, 11/22/09, G E Mayers <gerry1952@...> wrote:


                  From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] 9th NY & 8th CT
                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Sunday, November 22, 2009, 8:28 AM


                   



                  Matt;

                  You might want to contact Antietam NBP for that one. Or go to
                  www.nps.gov/ anti and see if you can find out anything that way.

                  Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  G E "Gerry" Mayers

                  To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                  on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                  Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                  the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Matt Reardon" <mreardon1862@ yahoo.com>
                  To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
                  Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:00 PM
                  Subject: [TalkAntietam] 9th NY & 8th CT

                  Hi all,

                  I've been doing a lot of research into the IX Corps attack late
                  in the day. After visiting Antietam a few months ago, I saw that
                  the 8th CT and 9th NY monuments are very close to each other.
                  Each claiming that this was the point to which they advanced to.
                  Now I know that the 8th CT and 9th NY never fought this close
                  together. The 8th CT advanced towards the Harper's Ferry Rd and
                  the 9th NY wheeled towards Sharpsburg. Is there any reason why
                  these two monuments are where they are?

                  Thanks for any help,

                  Matt

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • G E Mayers
                  Dear Matt, First off, NPS at Antietam NBP does not answer emails immediately. It may take a few days for the staff there to do so.If you sent the email to the
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 22, 2009
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                    Dear Matt,

                    First off, NPS at Antietam NBP does not answer emails
                    immediately. It may take a few days for the staff there to do
                    so.If you sent the email to the general email address, then it
                    has to get to the proper ranger there to read, look at
                    information etc and respond.

                    As to your comment about the 8th CT and the 9th NY.... I think
                    NPS is correct that the 9th NY did indeed go the furthest
                    _towards_ Sharpsburg on that part of the field than any other US
                    unit. However, according to the Carman map for 4.20 pm, the 8th
                    CT went the furthest of any US unit due west in the IX Corps
                    advance.

                    If you would like to have confirmation, check this link which is
                    the appropriate time frame map from the Carman-Cope maps of the
                    battle, done under supervision of Ezra Cope who not only fought
                    at Sharpsburg but was, after the war, the head of the battlefield
                    board and wrote a manuscript about the campaign and the battle
                    which is pretty much accepted as "the" participant account.
                    Carman wrote to veterans of both sides and was very meticulous in
                    obtaining information of various phases of the action from US and
                    CS veterans, their unit positions, etc.

                    Link:
                    http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=cwmap&action=browse&fileName=gmd384m/g3842m/g3842am/gcw0248000/ct_browse.db&recNum=12&itemLink=r?ammem/gmd:@filreq%28@field%28NUMBER+@band%28g3842am+gcw0248000%29%29+@field%28COLLID+cwmap%29%29&linkText=0&title2=Atlas%20of%20the%20battlefield%20of%20Antietam,%20prepared%20under%20the%20direction%20of%20the%20Antietam%20Battlefield%20Board,%20lieut.%20col.%20Geo.%20W.%20Davis,%20U.S.A.,%20president,%20gen.%20E.A.%20Carman,%20U.S.V.,%20gen.%20H%20Heth,%20C.S.A.%20Surveyed%20by%20lieut.%20col.%20E.B.%20Cope,%20engineer,%20H.W.%20Mattern,%20assistant%20engineer,%20of%20the%20Gettysburg%20National%20Park.%20Drawn%20by%20Charles%20H.%20Ourand,%201899.%20Position%20of%20troops%20by%20gen.%20E.%20A.%20Carman.%20%20Published%20by%20authority%20of%20the%20Secretary%20of%20War,%20under%20the%20direction%20of%20the%20Chief%20of%20Engineers,%20U.S.%20Army,%201908.&displayType=3&maxCols=3

                    Click on the map for 4.20 pm and then zoom into the area south
                    and slightly west of Sharpsburg for greater clarity.

                    Hope this helps. Also might be good idea for you sometime to
                    actually stomp the ground the 8th CT advanced over as well.

                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                    To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                    on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                    Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                    the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Matt Reardon" <mreardon1862@...>
                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 9:34 PM
                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] 9th NY & 8th CT



                    Thanks everyone.

                    I have tried to contact the NPS, never got a response back. I
                    also went to Post #5938, linked there was a book about the US
                    Signal Corps.

                    My next question probably won't have an answer. Why does the NPS
                    continue to tell people that the 9th NY advanced the farthest at
                    that point when we all know they didn't? And why do they get
                    their monument on the park guide map?

                    Why is one units monument better than any of the others?

                    Just a little side note. My interest in these monuments stems
                    from my relation with the 8th Connecticut. It was my g-g-g
                    grandfathers first battle. He served in Co. G.

                    Thanks again,
                    Matt

                    --- On Sun, 11/22/09, G E Mayers <gerry1952@...> wrote:


                    From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] 9th NY & 8th CT
                    To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Sunday, November 22, 2009, 8:28 AM






                    Matt;

                    You might want to contact Antietam NBP for that one. Or go to
                    www.nps.gov/ anti and see if you can find out anything that way.

                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                    To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                    on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                    Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                    the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Matt Reardon" <mreardon1862@ yahoo.com>
                    To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
                    Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:00 PM
                    Subject: [TalkAntietam] 9th NY & 8th CT

                    Hi all,

                    I've been doing a lot of research into the IX Corps attack late
                    in the day. After visiting Antietam a few months ago, I saw that
                    the 8th CT and 9th NY monuments are very close to each other.
                    Each claiming that this was the point to which they advanced to.
                    Now I know that the 8th CT and 9th NY never fought this close
                    together. The 8th CT advanced towards the Harper's Ferry Rd and
                    the 9th NY wheeled towards Sharpsburg. Is there any reason why
                    these two monuments are where they are?

                    Thanks for any help,

                    Matt

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Dave
                    Matt, here is the link to Trail s dissertation, from Larry s post #5874 (it is a direct download link):
                    Message 9 of 13 , Nov 23, 2009
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                      Matt, here is the link to Trail's dissertation, from Larry's post #5874
                      (it is a direct download link):

                      http://www.lib.umd.edu/drum/bitstream/1903/2353/1/umi-umd-2211.pdf

                      I think it will answer a lot of questions, it sure did for me.

                      Dave McGowan


                      Matt Reardon wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Thanks everyone.
                      >
                      > I have tried to contact the NPS, never got a response back. I also
                      > went to Post #5938, linked there was a book about the US Signal Corps.
                      >
                      > My next question probably won't have an answer. Why does the NPS
                      > continue to tell people that the 9th NY advanced the farthest at that
                      > point when we all know they didn't? And why do they get their
                      > monument on the park guide map?
                      >
                      > Why is one units monument better than any of the others?
                      >
                      > Just a little side note. My interest in these monuments stems from my
                      > relation with the 8th Connecticut. It was my g-g-g grandfathers first
                      > battle. He served in Co. G.
                      >
                      > Thanks again,
                      > Matt
                      >
                      > --- On Sun, 11/22/09, G E Mayers <gerry1952@...
                      > <mailto:gerry1952%40verizon.net>> wrote:
                      >
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