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Re: [TalkAntietam] introduction

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  • Dean Essig
    He s just pulling your leg. D.H. Hill s Division in the road (less 1 or 2 Brigades that were sent elsewhere) but plus a couple of McLaw s Bdes that drifted
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 21, 2009
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      He's just pulling your leg.

      D.H. Hill's Division in the road (less 1 or 2 Brigades that were sent
      elsewhere) but plus a couple of McLaw's Bdes that drifted away from
      the West Woods fight.

      Number counts vary greatly. Hopefully somebody can throw you an
      approx number.

      Dean

      On Nov 21, 2009, at 9:39 PM, Bob Hellmers wrote:

      > no not really , theyre were not 750,000 union troops at antietam
      > and the confederates did not kill 150,000 at antietam but thanks
      > for welcoming me



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Matt Reardon
      Hi all,   I ve been doing a lot of research into the IX Corps attack late in the day.  After visiting Antietam a few months ago, I saw that the 8th CT and
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 21, 2009
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        Hi all,
         
        I've been doing a lot of research into the IX Corps attack late in the day.  After visiting Antietam a few months ago, I saw that the 8th CT and 9th NY monuments are very close to each other.  Each claiming that this was the point to which they advanced to.  Now I know that the 8th CT and 9th NY never fought this close together.  The 8th CT advanced towards the Harper's Ferry Rd and the 9th NY wheeled towards Sharpsburg.  Is there any reason why these two monuments are where they are?
         
        Thanks for any help,
         
        Matt




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • G E Mayers
        Bob Hellmers; If you go to the Antietam on the Web website, all your basic questions will be answered.... Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian,
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 22, 2009
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          Bob Hellmers;

          If you go to the Antietam on the Web website, all your basic
          questions will be answered....

          Yr. Obt. Svt.
          G E "Gerry" Mayers

          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
          on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
          Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
          the Almighty God. --Anonymous
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Bob" <hellmersbob@...>
          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 9:05 PM
          Subject: [TalkAntietam] introduction


          hello new to the group, i am someone who likes history,
          especially the civil war and wanted to chat with anyone about
          antietam, my question is how many confederates were in the sunken
          road and what commander did they belong to? the confederates did
          well at antietam considering they were outnumbered. i haveseen
          pictures in books of the sunken road with confederate dead. hope
          to hear from someone. bob hellmers
        • G E Mayers
          Bob; Harry was reallllyyyyy pulling your leg on that response. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 22, 2009
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            Bob;

            Harry was reallllyyyyy pulling your leg on that response.

            Yr. Obt. Svt.
            G E "Gerry" Mayers

            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
            on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
            Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
            the Almighty God. --Anonymous
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Bob Hellmers" <hellmersbob@...>
            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 10:39 PM
            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] introduction


            no not really , theyre were not 750,000 union troops at antietam
            and the confederates did not kill 150,000 at antietam but thanks
            for welcoming me




            ________________________________
            From: Harry Smeltzer <hjs21@...>
            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sat, November 21, 2009 9:54:33 PM
            Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] introduction


            As everyone knows, the Confederates consisted of Robert E. Lee
            and a
            one-armed orderly, arrayed against 750,000 fresh, well trained,
            and battle
            hardened Union troops. Photos of supposed Confederate dead were
            manufactured by George McClellan later to hide the fact that Lee
            and his
            batman killed 150,000 Federal troops, and wounded another
            200,000. The two
            left the field in a buggy, Lee shooting a moon the whole way.
            McClellan saw
            it all through a glass (and darkly), but was too busy plotting to
            become
            President - and hating his mother despite an Oedipal complex - to
            bother
            pursuing.. See "Landscape Turned Red" page beginning to page end.

            Hope this helps!

            Harry

            (Welcome, by the way)

            -----Original Message-----
            From: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:TalkAntietam@
            yahoogroups. com] On
            Behalf Of Bob
            Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 9:06 PM
            To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
            Subject: [TalkAntietam] introduction

            hello new to the group, i am someone who likes history,
            especially the civil
            war and wanted to chat with anyone about antietam, my question is
            how many
            confederates were in the sunken road and what commander did they
            belong to?
            the confederates did well at antietam considering they were
            outnumbered. i
            haveseen pictures in books of the sunken road with confederate
            dead. hope to
            hear from someone. bob hellmers

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • G E Mayers
            Matt; You might want to contact Antietam NBP for that one. Or go to www.nps.gov/anti and see if you can find out anything that way. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 22, 2009
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              Matt;

              You might want to contact Antietam NBP for that one. Or go to
              www.nps.gov/anti and see if you can find out anything that way.

              Yr. Obt. Svt.
              G E "Gerry" Mayers

              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
              on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
              Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
              the Almighty God. --Anonymous
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Matt Reardon" <mreardon1862@...>
              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:00 PM
              Subject: [TalkAntietam] 9th NY & 8th CT


              Hi all,

              I've been doing a lot of research into the IX Corps attack late
              in the day. After visiting Antietam a few months ago, I saw that
              the 8th CT and 9th NY monuments are very close to each other.
              Each claiming that this was the point to which they advanced to.
              Now I know that the 8th CT and 9th NY never fought this close
              together. The 8th CT advanced towards the Harper's Ferry Rd and
              the 9th NY wheeled towards Sharpsburg. Is there any reason why
              these two monuments are where they are?

              Thanks for any help,

              Matt




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Dave
              Matt, a bit of the story is recounted in Susan Trail s masterpiece of a dissertation Remembering Antietam, on pages 258 and following. Looks like the 8th Conn
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 22, 2009
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                Matt, a bit of the story is recounted in Susan Trail's masterpiece of a
                dissertation Remembering Antietam, on pages 258 and following. Looks
                like the 8th Conn monument was dedicated on 10/10/94 and the 9th NY was
                dedicated on 5/30/97 after a lot of haggling over pieces of land that
                the farmers wanted exorbitant prices for and a mistake by the 9th in
                buying property in the wrong place.

                Guys, would it be ok to post that dissertation here in the files
                section? Or can someone send him a link? It's 32 MB.

                Dave McGowan


                Matt Reardon wrote:
                >
                > Hi all,
                >
                > I've been doing a lot of research into the IX Corps attack late in the
                > day. After visiting Antietam a few months ago, I saw that the 8th CT
                > and 9th NY monuments are very close to each other. Each claiming that
                > this was the point to which they advanced to. Now I know that the 8th
                > CT and 9th NY never fought this close together. The 8th CT advanced
                > towards the Harper's Ferry Rd and the 9th NY wheeled towards
                > Sharpsburg. Is there any reason why these two monuments are where they
                > are?
                >
                > Thanks for any help,
                >
                > Matt
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
              • eighth_conn_inf
                See message #5938 for the link to her dissertation.
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 22, 2009
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                  See message #5938 for the link to her dissertation.

                  --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Dave <gewehr@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Matt, a bit of the story is recounted in Susan Trail's masterpiece of a
                  > dissertation Remembering Antietam, on pages 258 and following. Looks
                  > like the 8th Conn monument was dedicated on 10/10/94 and the 9th NY was
                  > dedicated on 5/30/97 after a lot of haggling over pieces of land that
                  > the farmers wanted exorbitant prices for and a mistake by the 9th in
                  > buying property in the wrong place.
                  >
                  > Guys, would it be ok to post that dissertation here in the files
                  > section? Or can someone send him a link? It's 32 MB.
                  >
                  > Dave McGowan
                  >
                  >
                  > Matt Reardon wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hi all,
                  > >
                  > > I've been doing a lot of research into the IX Corps attack late in the
                  > > day. After visiting Antietam a few months ago, I saw that the 8th CT
                  > > and 9th NY monuments are very close to each other. Each claiming that
                  > > this was the point to which they advanced to. Now I know that the 8th
                  > > CT and 9th NY never fought this close together. The 8th CT advanced
                  > > towards the Harper's Ferry Rd and the 9th NY wheeled towards
                  > > Sharpsburg. Is there any reason why these two monuments are where they
                  > > are?
                  > >
                  > > Thanks for any help,
                  > >
                  > > Matt
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Matt Reardon
                  Thanks everyone.   I have tried to contact the NPS, never got a response back.  I also went to Post #5938, linked there was a book about the US Signal Corps.
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 22, 2009
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                    Thanks everyone.
                     
                    I have tried to contact the NPS, never got a response back.  I also went to Post #5938, linked there was a book about the US Signal Corps.
                     
                    My next question probably won't have an answer.  Why does the NPS continue to tell people that the 9th NY advanced the farthest at that point when we all know they didn't?  And why do they get their monument on the park guide map? 
                     
                    Why is one units monument better than any of the others?
                     
                    Just a little side note.  My interest in these monuments stems from my relation with the 8th Connecticut.  It was my g-g-g grandfathers first battle.  He served in Co. G.
                     
                    Thanks again,
                    Matt

                    --- On Sun, 11/22/09, G E Mayers <gerry1952@...> wrote:


                    From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] 9th NY & 8th CT
                    To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Sunday, November 22, 2009, 8:28 AM


                     



                    Matt;

                    You might want to contact Antietam NBP for that one. Or go to
                    www.nps.gov/ anti and see if you can find out anything that way.

                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                    To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                    on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                    Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                    the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Matt Reardon" <mreardon1862@ yahoo.com>
                    To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
                    Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:00 PM
                    Subject: [TalkAntietam] 9th NY & 8th CT

                    Hi all,

                    I've been doing a lot of research into the IX Corps attack late
                    in the day. After visiting Antietam a few months ago, I saw that
                    the 8th CT and 9th NY monuments are very close to each other.
                    Each claiming that this was the point to which they advanced to.
                    Now I know that the 8th CT and 9th NY never fought this close
                    together. The 8th CT advanced towards the Harper's Ferry Rd and
                    the 9th NY wheeled towards Sharpsburg. Is there any reason why
                    these two monuments are where they are?

                    Thanks for any help,

                    Matt

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • G E Mayers
                    Dear Matt, First off, NPS at Antietam NBP does not answer emails immediately. It may take a few days for the staff there to do so.If you sent the email to the
                    Message 9 of 13 , Nov 22, 2009
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                      Dear Matt,

                      First off, NPS at Antietam NBP does not answer emails
                      immediately. It may take a few days for the staff there to do
                      so.If you sent the email to the general email address, then it
                      has to get to the proper ranger there to read, look at
                      information etc and respond.

                      As to your comment about the 8th CT and the 9th NY.... I think
                      NPS is correct that the 9th NY did indeed go the furthest
                      _towards_ Sharpsburg on that part of the field than any other US
                      unit. However, according to the Carman map for 4.20 pm, the 8th
                      CT went the furthest of any US unit due west in the IX Corps
                      advance.

                      If you would like to have confirmation, check this link which is
                      the appropriate time frame map from the Carman-Cope maps of the
                      battle, done under supervision of Ezra Cope who not only fought
                      at Sharpsburg but was, after the war, the head of the battlefield
                      board and wrote a manuscript about the campaign and the battle
                      which is pretty much accepted as "the" participant account.
                      Carman wrote to veterans of both sides and was very meticulous in
                      obtaining information of various phases of the action from US and
                      CS veterans, their unit positions, etc.

                      Link:
                      http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=cwmap&action=browse&fileName=gmd384m/g3842m/g3842am/gcw0248000/ct_browse.db&recNum=12&itemLink=r?ammem/gmd:@filreq%28@field%28NUMBER+@band%28g3842am+gcw0248000%29%29+@field%28COLLID+cwmap%29%29&linkText=0&title2=Atlas%20of%20the%20battlefield%20of%20Antietam,%20prepared%20under%20the%20direction%20of%20the%20Antietam%20Battlefield%20Board,%20lieut.%20col.%20Geo.%20W.%20Davis,%20U.S.A.,%20president,%20gen.%20E.A.%20Carman,%20U.S.V.,%20gen.%20H%20Heth,%20C.S.A.%20Surveyed%20by%20lieut.%20col.%20E.B.%20Cope,%20engineer,%20H.W.%20Mattern,%20assistant%20engineer,%20of%20the%20Gettysburg%20National%20Park.%20Drawn%20by%20Charles%20H.%20Ourand,%201899.%20Position%20of%20troops%20by%20gen.%20E.%20A.%20Carman.%20%20Published%20by%20authority%20of%20the%20Secretary%20of%20War,%20under%20the%20direction%20of%20the%20Chief%20of%20Engineers,%20U.S.%20Army,%201908.&displayType=3&maxCols=3

                      Click on the map for 4.20 pm and then zoom into the area south
                      and slightly west of Sharpsburg for greater clarity.

                      Hope this helps. Also might be good idea for you sometime to
                      actually stomp the ground the 8th CT advanced over as well.

                      Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      G E "Gerry" Mayers

                      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                      on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                      Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                      the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Matt Reardon" <mreardon1862@...>
                      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 9:34 PM
                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] 9th NY & 8th CT



                      Thanks everyone.

                      I have tried to contact the NPS, never got a response back. I
                      also went to Post #5938, linked there was a book about the US
                      Signal Corps.

                      My next question probably won't have an answer. Why does the NPS
                      continue to tell people that the 9th NY advanced the farthest at
                      that point when we all know they didn't? And why do they get
                      their monument on the park guide map?

                      Why is one units monument better than any of the others?

                      Just a little side note. My interest in these monuments stems
                      from my relation with the 8th Connecticut. It was my g-g-g
                      grandfathers first battle. He served in Co. G.

                      Thanks again,
                      Matt

                      --- On Sun, 11/22/09, G E Mayers <gerry1952@...> wrote:


                      From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] 9th NY & 8th CT
                      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Sunday, November 22, 2009, 8:28 AM






                      Matt;

                      You might want to contact Antietam NBP for that one. Or go to
                      www.nps.gov/ anti and see if you can find out anything that way.

                      Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      G E "Gerry" Mayers

                      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                      on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                      Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                      the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Matt Reardon" <mreardon1862@ yahoo.com>
                      To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
                      Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:00 PM
                      Subject: [TalkAntietam] 9th NY & 8th CT

                      Hi all,

                      I've been doing a lot of research into the IX Corps attack late
                      in the day. After visiting Antietam a few months ago, I saw that
                      the 8th CT and 9th NY monuments are very close to each other.
                      Each claiming that this was the point to which they advanced to.
                      Now I know that the 8th CT and 9th NY never fought this close
                      together. The 8th CT advanced towards the Harper's Ferry Rd and
                      the 9th NY wheeled towards Sharpsburg. Is there any reason why
                      these two monuments are where they are?

                      Thanks for any help,

                      Matt

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Dave
                      Matt, here is the link to Trail s dissertation, from Larry s post #5874 (it is a direct download link):
                      Message 10 of 13 , Nov 23, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Matt, here is the link to Trail's dissertation, from Larry's post #5874
                        (it is a direct download link):

                        http://www.lib.umd.edu/drum/bitstream/1903/2353/1/umi-umd-2211.pdf

                        I think it will answer a lot of questions, it sure did for me.

                        Dave McGowan


                        Matt Reardon wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Thanks everyone.
                        >
                        > I have tried to contact the NPS, never got a response back. I also
                        > went to Post #5938, linked there was a book about the US Signal Corps.
                        >
                        > My next question probably won't have an answer. Why does the NPS
                        > continue to tell people that the 9th NY advanced the farthest at that
                        > point when we all know they didn't? And why do they get their
                        > monument on the park guide map?
                        >
                        > Why is one units monument better than any of the others?
                        >
                        > Just a little side note. My interest in these monuments stems from my
                        > relation with the 8th Connecticut. It was my g-g-g grandfathers first
                        > battle. He served in Co. G.
                        >
                        > Thanks again,
                        > Matt
                        >
                        > --- On Sun, 11/22/09, G E Mayers <gerry1952@...
                        > <mailto:gerry1952%40verizon.net>> wrote:
                        >
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.