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Re: [TalkAntietam] introduction

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  • Bob Hellmers
    no not really , theyre were not 750,000 union troops at antietam and the confederates did not kill 150,000 at antietam but thanks for welcoming me
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 21, 2009
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      no not really , theyre were not 750,000 union troops at antietam and the confederates did not kill 150,000 at antietam but thanks for welcoming me




      ________________________________
      From: Harry Smeltzer <hjs21@...>
      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sat, November 21, 2009 9:54:33 PM
      Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] introduction

       
      As everyone knows, the Confederates consisted of Robert E. Lee and a
      one-armed orderly, arrayed against 750,000 fresh, well trained, and battle
      hardened Union troops. Photos of supposed Confederate dead were
      manufactured by George McClellan later to hide the fact that Lee and his
      batman killed 150,000 Federal troops, and wounded another 200,000. The two
      left the field in a buggy, Lee shooting a moon the whole way. McClellan saw
      it all through a glass (and darkly), but was too busy plotting to become
      President - and hating his mother despite an Oedipal complex - to bother
      pursuing.. See "Landscape Turned Red" page beginning to page end.

      Hope this helps!

      Harry

      (Welcome, by the way)

      -----Original Message-----
      From: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com] On
      Behalf Of Bob
      Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 9:06 PM
      To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
      Subject: [TalkAntietam] introduction

      hello new to the group, i am someone who likes history, especially the civil
      war and wanted to chat with anyone about antietam, my question is how many
      confederates were in the sunken road and what commander did they belong to?
      the confederates did well at antietam considering they were outnumbered. i
      haveseen pictures in books of the sunken road with confederate dead. hope to
      hear from someone. bob hellmers

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Dean Essig
      He s just pulling your leg. D.H. Hill s Division in the road (less 1 or 2 Brigades that were sent elsewhere) but plus a couple of McLaw s Bdes that drifted
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 21, 2009
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        He's just pulling your leg.

        D.H. Hill's Division in the road (less 1 or 2 Brigades that were sent
        elsewhere) but plus a couple of McLaw's Bdes that drifted away from
        the West Woods fight.

        Number counts vary greatly. Hopefully somebody can throw you an
        approx number.

        Dean

        On Nov 21, 2009, at 9:39 PM, Bob Hellmers wrote:

        > no not really , theyre were not 750,000 union troops at antietam
        > and the confederates did not kill 150,000 at antietam but thanks
        > for welcoming me



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Matt Reardon
        Hi all,   I ve been doing a lot of research into the IX Corps attack late in the day.  After visiting Antietam a few months ago, I saw that the 8th CT and
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 21, 2009
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          Hi all,
           
          I've been doing a lot of research into the IX Corps attack late in the day.  After visiting Antietam a few months ago, I saw that the 8th CT and 9th NY monuments are very close to each other.  Each claiming that this was the point to which they advanced to.  Now I know that the 8th CT and 9th NY never fought this close together.  The 8th CT advanced towards the Harper's Ferry Rd and the 9th NY wheeled towards Sharpsburg.  Is there any reason why these two monuments are where they are?
           
          Thanks for any help,
           
          Matt




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • G E Mayers
          Bob Hellmers; If you go to the Antietam on the Web website, all your basic questions will be answered.... Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian,
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 22, 2009
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            Bob Hellmers;

            If you go to the Antietam on the Web website, all your basic
            questions will be answered....

            Yr. Obt. Svt.
            G E "Gerry" Mayers

            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
            on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
            Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
            the Almighty God. --Anonymous
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Bob" <hellmersbob@...>
            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 9:05 PM
            Subject: [TalkAntietam] introduction


            hello new to the group, i am someone who likes history,
            especially the civil war and wanted to chat with anyone about
            antietam, my question is how many confederates were in the sunken
            road and what commander did they belong to? the confederates did
            well at antietam considering they were outnumbered. i haveseen
            pictures in books of the sunken road with confederate dead. hope
            to hear from someone. bob hellmers
          • G E Mayers
            Bob; Harry was reallllyyyyy pulling your leg on that response. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 22, 2009
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              Bob;

              Harry was reallllyyyyy pulling your leg on that response.

              Yr. Obt. Svt.
              G E "Gerry" Mayers

              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
              on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
              Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
              the Almighty God. --Anonymous
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Bob Hellmers" <hellmersbob@...>
              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 10:39 PM
              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] introduction


              no not really , theyre were not 750,000 union troops at antietam
              and the confederates did not kill 150,000 at antietam but thanks
              for welcoming me




              ________________________________
              From: Harry Smeltzer <hjs21@...>
              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sat, November 21, 2009 9:54:33 PM
              Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] introduction


              As everyone knows, the Confederates consisted of Robert E. Lee
              and a
              one-armed orderly, arrayed against 750,000 fresh, well trained,
              and battle
              hardened Union troops. Photos of supposed Confederate dead were
              manufactured by George McClellan later to hide the fact that Lee
              and his
              batman killed 150,000 Federal troops, and wounded another
              200,000. The two
              left the field in a buggy, Lee shooting a moon the whole way.
              McClellan saw
              it all through a glass (and darkly), but was too busy plotting to
              become
              President - and hating his mother despite an Oedipal complex - to
              bother
              pursuing.. See "Landscape Turned Red" page beginning to page end.

              Hope this helps!

              Harry

              (Welcome, by the way)

              -----Original Message-----
              From: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:TalkAntietam@
              yahoogroups. com] On
              Behalf Of Bob
              Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 9:06 PM
              To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
              Subject: [TalkAntietam] introduction

              hello new to the group, i am someone who likes history,
              especially the civil
              war and wanted to chat with anyone about antietam, my question is
              how many
              confederates were in the sunken road and what commander did they
              belong to?
              the confederates did well at antietam considering they were
              outnumbered. i
              haveseen pictures in books of the sunken road with confederate
              dead. hope to
              hear from someone. bob hellmers

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • G E Mayers
              Matt; You might want to contact Antietam NBP for that one. Or go to www.nps.gov/anti and see if you can find out anything that way. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 22, 2009
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                Matt;

                You might want to contact Antietam NBP for that one. Or go to
                www.nps.gov/anti and see if you can find out anything that way.

                Yr. Obt. Svt.
                G E "Gerry" Mayers

                To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Matt Reardon" <mreardon1862@...>
                To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:00 PM
                Subject: [TalkAntietam] 9th NY & 8th CT


                Hi all,

                I've been doing a lot of research into the IX Corps attack late
                in the day. After visiting Antietam a few months ago, I saw that
                the 8th CT and 9th NY monuments are very close to each other.
                Each claiming that this was the point to which they advanced to.
                Now I know that the 8th CT and 9th NY never fought this close
                together. The 8th CT advanced towards the Harper's Ferry Rd and
                the 9th NY wheeled towards Sharpsburg. Is there any reason why
                these two monuments are where they are?

                Thanks for any help,

                Matt




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Dave
                Matt, a bit of the story is recounted in Susan Trail s masterpiece of a dissertation Remembering Antietam, on pages 258 and following. Looks like the 8th Conn
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 22, 2009
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                  Matt, a bit of the story is recounted in Susan Trail's masterpiece of a
                  dissertation Remembering Antietam, on pages 258 and following. Looks
                  like the 8th Conn monument was dedicated on 10/10/94 and the 9th NY was
                  dedicated on 5/30/97 after a lot of haggling over pieces of land that
                  the farmers wanted exorbitant prices for and a mistake by the 9th in
                  buying property in the wrong place.

                  Guys, would it be ok to post that dissertation here in the files
                  section? Or can someone send him a link? It's 32 MB.

                  Dave McGowan


                  Matt Reardon wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi all,
                  >
                  > I've been doing a lot of research into the IX Corps attack late in the
                  > day. After visiting Antietam a few months ago, I saw that the 8th CT
                  > and 9th NY monuments are very close to each other. Each claiming that
                  > this was the point to which they advanced to. Now I know that the 8th
                  > CT and 9th NY never fought this close together. The 8th CT advanced
                  > towards the Harper's Ferry Rd and the 9th NY wheeled towards
                  > Sharpsburg. Is there any reason why these two monuments are where they
                  > are?
                  >
                  > Thanks for any help,
                  >
                  > Matt
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                • eighth_conn_inf
                  See message #5938 for the link to her dissertation.
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 22, 2009
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                    See message #5938 for the link to her dissertation.

                    --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Dave <gewehr@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Matt, a bit of the story is recounted in Susan Trail's masterpiece of a
                    > dissertation Remembering Antietam, on pages 258 and following. Looks
                    > like the 8th Conn monument was dedicated on 10/10/94 and the 9th NY was
                    > dedicated on 5/30/97 after a lot of haggling over pieces of land that
                    > the farmers wanted exorbitant prices for and a mistake by the 9th in
                    > buying property in the wrong place.
                    >
                    > Guys, would it be ok to post that dissertation here in the files
                    > section? Or can someone send him a link? It's 32 MB.
                    >
                    > Dave McGowan
                    >
                    >
                    > Matt Reardon wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hi all,
                    > >
                    > > I've been doing a lot of research into the IX Corps attack late in the
                    > > day. After visiting Antietam a few months ago, I saw that the 8th CT
                    > > and 9th NY monuments are very close to each other. Each claiming that
                    > > this was the point to which they advanced to. Now I know that the 8th
                    > > CT and 9th NY never fought this close together. The 8th CT advanced
                    > > towards the Harper's Ferry Rd and the 9th NY wheeled towards
                    > > Sharpsburg. Is there any reason why these two monuments are where they
                    > > are?
                    > >
                    > > Thanks for any help,
                    > >
                    > > Matt
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Matt Reardon
                    Thanks everyone.   I have tried to contact the NPS, never got a response back.  I also went to Post #5938, linked there was a book about the US Signal Corps.
                    Message 9 of 13 , Nov 22, 2009
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                      Thanks everyone.
                       
                      I have tried to contact the NPS, never got a response back.  I also went to Post #5938, linked there was a book about the US Signal Corps.
                       
                      My next question probably won't have an answer.  Why does the NPS continue to tell people that the 9th NY advanced the farthest at that point when we all know they didn't?  And why do they get their monument on the park guide map? 
                       
                      Why is one units monument better than any of the others?
                       
                      Just a little side note.  My interest in these monuments stems from my relation with the 8th Connecticut.  It was my g-g-g grandfathers first battle.  He served in Co. G.
                       
                      Thanks again,
                      Matt

                      --- On Sun, 11/22/09, G E Mayers <gerry1952@...> wrote:


                      From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] 9th NY & 8th CT
                      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Sunday, November 22, 2009, 8:28 AM


                       



                      Matt;

                      You might want to contact Antietam NBP for that one. Or go to
                      www.nps.gov/ anti and see if you can find out anything that way.

                      Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      G E "Gerry" Mayers

                      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                      on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                      Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                      the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Matt Reardon" <mreardon1862@ yahoo.com>
                      To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
                      Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:00 PM
                      Subject: [TalkAntietam] 9th NY & 8th CT

                      Hi all,

                      I've been doing a lot of research into the IX Corps attack late
                      in the day. After visiting Antietam a few months ago, I saw that
                      the 8th CT and 9th NY monuments are very close to each other.
                      Each claiming that this was the point to which they advanced to.
                      Now I know that the 8th CT and 9th NY never fought this close
                      together. The 8th CT advanced towards the Harper's Ferry Rd and
                      the 9th NY wheeled towards Sharpsburg. Is there any reason why
                      these two monuments are where they are?

                      Thanks for any help,

                      Matt

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • G E Mayers
                      Dear Matt, First off, NPS at Antietam NBP does not answer emails immediately. It may take a few days for the staff there to do so.If you sent the email to the
                      Message 10 of 13 , Nov 22, 2009
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                        Dear Matt,

                        First off, NPS at Antietam NBP does not answer emails
                        immediately. It may take a few days for the staff there to do
                        so.If you sent the email to the general email address, then it
                        has to get to the proper ranger there to read, look at
                        information etc and respond.

                        As to your comment about the 8th CT and the 9th NY.... I think
                        NPS is correct that the 9th NY did indeed go the furthest
                        _towards_ Sharpsburg on that part of the field than any other US
                        unit. However, according to the Carman map for 4.20 pm, the 8th
                        CT went the furthest of any US unit due west in the IX Corps
                        advance.

                        If you would like to have confirmation, check this link which is
                        the appropriate time frame map from the Carman-Cope maps of the
                        battle, done under supervision of Ezra Cope who not only fought
                        at Sharpsburg but was, after the war, the head of the battlefield
                        board and wrote a manuscript about the campaign and the battle
                        which is pretty much accepted as "the" participant account.
                        Carman wrote to veterans of both sides and was very meticulous in
                        obtaining information of various phases of the action from US and
                        CS veterans, their unit positions, etc.

                        Link:
                        http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=cwmap&action=browse&fileName=gmd384m/g3842m/g3842am/gcw0248000/ct_browse.db&recNum=12&itemLink=r?ammem/gmd:@filreq%28@field%28NUMBER+@band%28g3842am+gcw0248000%29%29+@field%28COLLID+cwmap%29%29&linkText=0&title2=Atlas%20of%20the%20battlefield%20of%20Antietam,%20prepared%20under%20the%20direction%20of%20the%20Antietam%20Battlefield%20Board,%20lieut.%20col.%20Geo.%20W.%20Davis,%20U.S.A.,%20president,%20gen.%20E.A.%20Carman,%20U.S.V.,%20gen.%20H%20Heth,%20C.S.A.%20Surveyed%20by%20lieut.%20col.%20E.B.%20Cope,%20engineer,%20H.W.%20Mattern,%20assistant%20engineer,%20of%20the%20Gettysburg%20National%20Park.%20Drawn%20by%20Charles%20H.%20Ourand,%201899.%20Position%20of%20troops%20by%20gen.%20E.%20A.%20Carman.%20%20Published%20by%20authority%20of%20the%20Secretary%20of%20War,%20under%20the%20direction%20of%20the%20Chief%20of%20Engineers,%20U.S.%20Army,%201908.&displayType=3&maxCols=3

                        Click on the map for 4.20 pm and then zoom into the area south
                        and slightly west of Sharpsburg for greater clarity.

                        Hope this helps. Also might be good idea for you sometime to
                        actually stomp the ground the 8th CT advanced over as well.

                        Yr. Obt. Svt.
                        G E "Gerry" Mayers

                        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                        on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                        Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                        the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Matt Reardon" <mreardon1862@...>
                        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 9:34 PM
                        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] 9th NY & 8th CT



                        Thanks everyone.

                        I have tried to contact the NPS, never got a response back. I
                        also went to Post #5938, linked there was a book about the US
                        Signal Corps.

                        My next question probably won't have an answer. Why does the NPS
                        continue to tell people that the 9th NY advanced the farthest at
                        that point when we all know they didn't? And why do they get
                        their monument on the park guide map?

                        Why is one units monument better than any of the others?

                        Just a little side note. My interest in these monuments stems
                        from my relation with the 8th Connecticut. It was my g-g-g
                        grandfathers first battle. He served in Co. G.

                        Thanks again,
                        Matt

                        --- On Sun, 11/22/09, G E Mayers <gerry1952@...> wrote:


                        From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] 9th NY & 8th CT
                        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Sunday, November 22, 2009, 8:28 AM






                        Matt;

                        You might want to contact Antietam NBP for that one. Or go to
                        www.nps.gov/ anti and see if you can find out anything that way.

                        Yr. Obt. Svt.
                        G E "Gerry" Mayers

                        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                        on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                        Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                        the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Matt Reardon" <mreardon1862@ yahoo.com>
                        To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
                        Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:00 PM
                        Subject: [TalkAntietam] 9th NY & 8th CT

                        Hi all,

                        I've been doing a lot of research into the IX Corps attack late
                        in the day. After visiting Antietam a few months ago, I saw that
                        the 8th CT and 9th NY monuments are very close to each other.
                        Each claiming that this was the point to which they advanced to.
                        Now I know that the 8th CT and 9th NY never fought this close
                        together. The 8th CT advanced towards the Harper's Ferry Rd and
                        the 9th NY wheeled towards Sharpsburg. Is there any reason why
                        these two monuments are where they are?

                        Thanks for any help,

                        Matt

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Dave
                        Matt, here is the link to Trail s dissertation, from Larry s post #5874 (it is a direct download link):
                        Message 11 of 13 , Nov 23, 2009
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Matt, here is the link to Trail's dissertation, from Larry's post #5874
                          (it is a direct download link):

                          http://www.lib.umd.edu/drum/bitstream/1903/2353/1/umi-umd-2211.pdf

                          I think it will answer a lot of questions, it sure did for me.

                          Dave McGowan


                          Matt Reardon wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Thanks everyone.
                          >
                          > I have tried to contact the NPS, never got a response back. I also
                          > went to Post #5938, linked there was a book about the US Signal Corps.
                          >
                          > My next question probably won't have an answer. Why does the NPS
                          > continue to tell people that the 9th NY advanced the farthest at that
                          > point when we all know they didn't? And why do they get their
                          > monument on the park guide map?
                          >
                          > Why is one units monument better than any of the others?
                          >
                          > Just a little side note. My interest in these monuments stems from my
                          > relation with the 8th Connecticut. It was my g-g-g grandfathers first
                          > battle. He served in Co. G.
                          >
                          > Thanks again,
                          > Matt
                          >
                          > --- On Sun, 11/22/09, G E Mayers <gerry1952@...
                          > <mailto:gerry1952%40verizon.net>> wrote:
                          >
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.