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  • Bob
    hello new to the group, i am someone who likes history, especially the civil war and wanted to chat with anyone about antietam, my question is how many
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 21, 2009
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      hello new to the group, i am someone who likes history, especially the civil war and wanted to chat with anyone about antietam, my question is how many confederates were in the sunken road and what commander did they belong to? the confederates did well at antietam considering they were outnumbered. i haveseen pictures in books of the sunken road with confederate dead. hope to hear from someone. bob hellmers
    • Harry Smeltzer
      As everyone knows, the Confederates consisted of Robert E. Lee and a one-armed orderly, arrayed against 750,000 fresh, well trained, and battle hardened Union
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 21, 2009
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        As everyone knows, the Confederates consisted of Robert E. Lee and a
        one-armed orderly, arrayed against 750,000 fresh, well trained, and battle
        hardened Union troops. Photos of supposed Confederate dead were
        manufactured by George McClellan later to hide the fact that Lee and his
        batman killed 150,000 Federal troops, and wounded another 200,000. The two
        left the field in a buggy, Lee shooting a moon the whole way. McClellan saw
        it all through a glass (and darkly), but was too busy plotting to become
        President - and hating his mother despite an Oedipal complex - to bother
        pursuing. See "Landscape Turned Red" page beginning to page end.

        Hope this helps!

        Harry

        (Welcome, by the way)



        -----Original Message-----
        From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Bob
        Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 9:06 PM
        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [TalkAntietam] introduction





        hello new to the group, i am someone who likes history, especially the civil
        war and wanted to chat with anyone about antietam, my question is how many
        confederates were in the sunken road and what commander did they belong to?
        the confederates did well at antietam considering they were outnumbered. i
        haveseen pictures in books of the sunken road with confederate dead. hope to
        hear from someone. bob hellmers





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Bob Hellmers
        no not really , theyre were not 750,000 union troops at antietam and the confederates did not kill 150,000 at antietam but thanks for welcoming me
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 21, 2009
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          no not really , theyre were not 750,000 union troops at antietam and the confederates did not kill 150,000 at antietam but thanks for welcoming me




          ________________________________
          From: Harry Smeltzer <hjs21@...>
          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sat, November 21, 2009 9:54:33 PM
          Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] introduction

           
          As everyone knows, the Confederates consisted of Robert E. Lee and a
          one-armed orderly, arrayed against 750,000 fresh, well trained, and battle
          hardened Union troops. Photos of supposed Confederate dead were
          manufactured by George McClellan later to hide the fact that Lee and his
          batman killed 150,000 Federal troops, and wounded another 200,000. The two
          left the field in a buggy, Lee shooting a moon the whole way. McClellan saw
          it all through a glass (and darkly), but was too busy plotting to become
          President - and hating his mother despite an Oedipal complex - to bother
          pursuing.. See "Landscape Turned Red" page beginning to page end.

          Hope this helps!

          Harry

          (Welcome, by the way)

          -----Original Message-----
          From: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com] On
          Behalf Of Bob
          Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 9:06 PM
          To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
          Subject: [TalkAntietam] introduction

          hello new to the group, i am someone who likes history, especially the civil
          war and wanted to chat with anyone about antietam, my question is how many
          confederates were in the sunken road and what commander did they belong to?
          the confederates did well at antietam considering they were outnumbered. i
          haveseen pictures in books of the sunken road with confederate dead. hope to
          hear from someone. bob hellmers

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Dean Essig
          He s just pulling your leg. D.H. Hill s Division in the road (less 1 or 2 Brigades that were sent elsewhere) but plus a couple of McLaw s Bdes that drifted
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 21, 2009
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            He's just pulling your leg.

            D.H. Hill's Division in the road (less 1 or 2 Brigades that were sent
            elsewhere) but plus a couple of McLaw's Bdes that drifted away from
            the West Woods fight.

            Number counts vary greatly. Hopefully somebody can throw you an
            approx number.

            Dean

            On Nov 21, 2009, at 9:39 PM, Bob Hellmers wrote:

            > no not really , theyre were not 750,000 union troops at antietam
            > and the confederates did not kill 150,000 at antietam but thanks
            > for welcoming me



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Matt Reardon
            Hi all,   I ve been doing a lot of research into the IX Corps attack late in the day.  After visiting Antietam a few months ago, I saw that the 8th CT and
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 21, 2009
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              Hi all,
               
              I've been doing a lot of research into the IX Corps attack late in the day.  After visiting Antietam a few months ago, I saw that the 8th CT and 9th NY monuments are very close to each other.  Each claiming that this was the point to which they advanced to.  Now I know that the 8th CT and 9th NY never fought this close together.  The 8th CT advanced towards the Harper's Ferry Rd and the 9th NY wheeled towards Sharpsburg.  Is there any reason why these two monuments are where they are?
               
              Thanks for any help,
               
              Matt




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • G E Mayers
              Bob Hellmers; If you go to the Antietam on the Web website, all your basic questions will be answered.... Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian,
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 22, 2009
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                Bob Hellmers;

                If you go to the Antietam on the Web website, all your basic
                questions will be answered....

                Yr. Obt. Svt.
                G E "Gerry" Mayers

                To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Bob" <hellmersbob@...>
                To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 9:05 PM
                Subject: [TalkAntietam] introduction


                hello new to the group, i am someone who likes history,
                especially the civil war and wanted to chat with anyone about
                antietam, my question is how many confederates were in the sunken
                road and what commander did they belong to? the confederates did
                well at antietam considering they were outnumbered. i haveseen
                pictures in books of the sunken road with confederate dead. hope
                to hear from someone. bob hellmers
              • G E Mayers
                Bob; Harry was reallllyyyyy pulling your leg on that response. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 22, 2009
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                  Bob;

                  Harry was reallllyyyyy pulling your leg on that response.

                  Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  G E "Gerry" Mayers

                  To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                  on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                  Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                  the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Bob Hellmers" <hellmersbob@...>
                  To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 10:39 PM
                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] introduction


                  no not really , theyre were not 750,000 union troops at antietam
                  and the confederates did not kill 150,000 at antietam but thanks
                  for welcoming me




                  ________________________________
                  From: Harry Smeltzer <hjs21@...>
                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sat, November 21, 2009 9:54:33 PM
                  Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] introduction


                  As everyone knows, the Confederates consisted of Robert E. Lee
                  and a
                  one-armed orderly, arrayed against 750,000 fresh, well trained,
                  and battle
                  hardened Union troops. Photos of supposed Confederate dead were
                  manufactured by George McClellan later to hide the fact that Lee
                  and his
                  batman killed 150,000 Federal troops, and wounded another
                  200,000. The two
                  left the field in a buggy, Lee shooting a moon the whole way.
                  McClellan saw
                  it all through a glass (and darkly), but was too busy plotting to
                  become
                  President - and hating his mother despite an Oedipal complex - to
                  bother
                  pursuing.. See "Landscape Turned Red" page beginning to page end.

                  Hope this helps!

                  Harry

                  (Welcome, by the way)

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:TalkAntietam@
                  yahoogroups. com] On
                  Behalf Of Bob
                  Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 9:06 PM
                  To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                  Subject: [TalkAntietam] introduction

                  hello new to the group, i am someone who likes history,
                  especially the civil
                  war and wanted to chat with anyone about antietam, my question is
                  how many
                  confederates were in the sunken road and what commander did they
                  belong to?
                  the confederates did well at antietam considering they were
                  outnumbered. i
                  haveseen pictures in books of the sunken road with confederate
                  dead. hope to
                  hear from someone. bob hellmers

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • G E Mayers
                  Matt; You might want to contact Antietam NBP for that one. Or go to www.nps.gov/anti and see if you can find out anything that way. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 22, 2009
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                    Matt;

                    You might want to contact Antietam NBP for that one. Or go to
                    www.nps.gov/anti and see if you can find out anything that way.

                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                    To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                    on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                    Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                    the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Matt Reardon" <mreardon1862@...>
                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:00 PM
                    Subject: [TalkAntietam] 9th NY & 8th CT


                    Hi all,

                    I've been doing a lot of research into the IX Corps attack late
                    in the day. After visiting Antietam a few months ago, I saw that
                    the 8th CT and 9th NY monuments are very close to each other.
                    Each claiming that this was the point to which they advanced to.
                    Now I know that the 8th CT and 9th NY never fought this close
                    together. The 8th CT advanced towards the Harper's Ferry Rd and
                    the 9th NY wheeled towards Sharpsburg. Is there any reason why
                    these two monuments are where they are?

                    Thanks for any help,

                    Matt




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Dave
                    Matt, a bit of the story is recounted in Susan Trail s masterpiece of a dissertation Remembering Antietam, on pages 258 and following. Looks like the 8th Conn
                    Message 9 of 13 , Nov 22, 2009
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                      Matt, a bit of the story is recounted in Susan Trail's masterpiece of a
                      dissertation Remembering Antietam, on pages 258 and following. Looks
                      like the 8th Conn monument was dedicated on 10/10/94 and the 9th NY was
                      dedicated on 5/30/97 after a lot of haggling over pieces of land that
                      the farmers wanted exorbitant prices for and a mistake by the 9th in
                      buying property in the wrong place.

                      Guys, would it be ok to post that dissertation here in the files
                      section? Or can someone send him a link? It's 32 MB.

                      Dave McGowan


                      Matt Reardon wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi all,
                      >
                      > I've been doing a lot of research into the IX Corps attack late in the
                      > day. After visiting Antietam a few months ago, I saw that the 8th CT
                      > and 9th NY monuments are very close to each other. Each claiming that
                      > this was the point to which they advanced to. Now I know that the 8th
                      > CT and 9th NY never fought this close together. The 8th CT advanced
                      > towards the Harper's Ferry Rd and the 9th NY wheeled towards
                      > Sharpsburg. Is there any reason why these two monuments are where they
                      > are?
                      >
                      > Thanks for any help,
                      >
                      > Matt
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                    • eighth_conn_inf
                      See message #5938 for the link to her dissertation.
                      Message 10 of 13 , Nov 22, 2009
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                        See message #5938 for the link to her dissertation.

                        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Dave <gewehr@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Matt, a bit of the story is recounted in Susan Trail's masterpiece of a
                        > dissertation Remembering Antietam, on pages 258 and following. Looks
                        > like the 8th Conn monument was dedicated on 10/10/94 and the 9th NY was
                        > dedicated on 5/30/97 after a lot of haggling over pieces of land that
                        > the farmers wanted exorbitant prices for and a mistake by the 9th in
                        > buying property in the wrong place.
                        >
                        > Guys, would it be ok to post that dissertation here in the files
                        > section? Or can someone send him a link? It's 32 MB.
                        >
                        > Dave McGowan
                        >
                        >
                        > Matt Reardon wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hi all,
                        > >
                        > > I've been doing a lot of research into the IX Corps attack late in the
                        > > day. After visiting Antietam a few months ago, I saw that the 8th CT
                        > > and 9th NY monuments are very close to each other. Each claiming that
                        > > this was the point to which they advanced to. Now I know that the 8th
                        > > CT and 9th NY never fought this close together. The 8th CT advanced
                        > > towards the Harper's Ferry Rd and the 9th NY wheeled towards
                        > > Sharpsburg. Is there any reason why these two monuments are where they
                        > > are?
                        > >
                        > > Thanks for any help,
                        > >
                        > > Matt
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • Matt Reardon
                        Thanks everyone.   I have tried to contact the NPS, never got a response back.  I also went to Post #5938, linked there was a book about the US Signal Corps.
                        Message 11 of 13 , Nov 22, 2009
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                          Thanks everyone.
                           
                          I have tried to contact the NPS, never got a response back.  I also went to Post #5938, linked there was a book about the US Signal Corps.
                           
                          My next question probably won't have an answer.  Why does the NPS continue to tell people that the 9th NY advanced the farthest at that point when we all know they didn't?  And why do they get their monument on the park guide map? 
                           
                          Why is one units monument better than any of the others?
                           
                          Just a little side note.  My interest in these monuments stems from my relation with the 8th Connecticut.  It was my g-g-g grandfathers first battle.  He served in Co. G.
                           
                          Thanks again,
                          Matt

                          --- On Sun, 11/22/09, G E Mayers <gerry1952@...> wrote:


                          From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] 9th NY & 8th CT
                          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Sunday, November 22, 2009, 8:28 AM


                           



                          Matt;

                          You might want to contact Antietam NBP for that one. Or go to
                          www.nps.gov/ anti and see if you can find out anything that way.

                          Yr. Obt. Svt.
                          G E "Gerry" Mayers

                          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                          on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                          Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                          the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Matt Reardon" <mreardon1862@ yahoo.com>
                          To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
                          Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:00 PM
                          Subject: [TalkAntietam] 9th NY & 8th CT

                          Hi all,

                          I've been doing a lot of research into the IX Corps attack late
                          in the day. After visiting Antietam a few months ago, I saw that
                          the 8th CT and 9th NY monuments are very close to each other.
                          Each claiming that this was the point to which they advanced to.
                          Now I know that the 8th CT and 9th NY never fought this close
                          together. The 8th CT advanced towards the Harper's Ferry Rd and
                          the 9th NY wheeled towards Sharpsburg. Is there any reason why
                          these two monuments are where they are?

                          Thanks for any help,

                          Matt

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • G E Mayers
                          Dear Matt, First off, NPS at Antietam NBP does not answer emails immediately. It may take a few days for the staff there to do so.If you sent the email to the
                          Message 12 of 13 , Nov 22, 2009
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                            Dear Matt,

                            First off, NPS at Antietam NBP does not answer emails
                            immediately. It may take a few days for the staff there to do
                            so.If you sent the email to the general email address, then it
                            has to get to the proper ranger there to read, look at
                            information etc and respond.

                            As to your comment about the 8th CT and the 9th NY.... I think
                            NPS is correct that the 9th NY did indeed go the furthest
                            _towards_ Sharpsburg on that part of the field than any other US
                            unit. However, according to the Carman map for 4.20 pm, the 8th
                            CT went the furthest of any US unit due west in the IX Corps
                            advance.

                            If you would like to have confirmation, check this link which is
                            the appropriate time frame map from the Carman-Cope maps of the
                            battle, done under supervision of Ezra Cope who not only fought
                            at Sharpsburg but was, after the war, the head of the battlefield
                            board and wrote a manuscript about the campaign and the battle
                            which is pretty much accepted as "the" participant account.
                            Carman wrote to veterans of both sides and was very meticulous in
                            obtaining information of various phases of the action from US and
                            CS veterans, their unit positions, etc.

                            Link:
                            http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=cwmap&action=browse&fileName=gmd384m/g3842m/g3842am/gcw0248000/ct_browse.db&recNum=12&itemLink=r?ammem/gmd:@filreq%28@field%28NUMBER+@band%28g3842am+gcw0248000%29%29+@field%28COLLID+cwmap%29%29&linkText=0&title2=Atlas%20of%20the%20battlefield%20of%20Antietam,%20prepared%20under%20the%20direction%20of%20the%20Antietam%20Battlefield%20Board,%20lieut.%20col.%20Geo.%20W.%20Davis,%20U.S.A.,%20president,%20gen.%20E.A.%20Carman,%20U.S.V.,%20gen.%20H%20Heth,%20C.S.A.%20Surveyed%20by%20lieut.%20col.%20E.B.%20Cope,%20engineer,%20H.W.%20Mattern,%20assistant%20engineer,%20of%20the%20Gettysburg%20National%20Park.%20Drawn%20by%20Charles%20H.%20Ourand,%201899.%20Position%20of%20troops%20by%20gen.%20E.%20A.%20Carman.%20%20Published%20by%20authority%20of%20the%20Secretary%20of%20War,%20under%20the%20direction%20of%20the%20Chief%20of%20Engineers,%20U.S.%20Army,%201908.&displayType=3&maxCols=3

                            Click on the map for 4.20 pm and then zoom into the area south
                            and slightly west of Sharpsburg for greater clarity.

                            Hope this helps. Also might be good idea for you sometime to
                            actually stomp the ground the 8th CT advanced over as well.

                            Yr. Obt. Svt.
                            G E "Gerry" Mayers

                            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                            on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                            Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                            the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Matt Reardon" <mreardon1862@...>
                            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 9:34 PM
                            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] 9th NY & 8th CT



                            Thanks everyone.

                            I have tried to contact the NPS, never got a response back. I
                            also went to Post #5938, linked there was a book about the US
                            Signal Corps.

                            My next question probably won't have an answer. Why does the NPS
                            continue to tell people that the 9th NY advanced the farthest at
                            that point when we all know they didn't? And why do they get
                            their monument on the park guide map?

                            Why is one units monument better than any of the others?

                            Just a little side note. My interest in these monuments stems
                            from my relation with the 8th Connecticut. It was my g-g-g
                            grandfathers first battle. He served in Co. G.

                            Thanks again,
                            Matt

                            --- On Sun, 11/22/09, G E Mayers <gerry1952@...> wrote:


                            From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] 9th NY & 8th CT
                            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Sunday, November 22, 2009, 8:28 AM






                            Matt;

                            You might want to contact Antietam NBP for that one. Or go to
                            www.nps.gov/ anti and see if you can find out anything that way.

                            Yr. Obt. Svt.
                            G E "Gerry" Mayers

                            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                            on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                            Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                            the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Matt Reardon" <mreardon1862@ yahoo.com>
                            To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
                            Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:00 PM
                            Subject: [TalkAntietam] 9th NY & 8th CT

                            Hi all,

                            I've been doing a lot of research into the IX Corps attack late
                            in the day. After visiting Antietam a few months ago, I saw that
                            the 8th CT and 9th NY monuments are very close to each other.
                            Each claiming that this was the point to which they advanced to.
                            Now I know that the 8th CT and 9th NY never fought this close
                            together. The 8th CT advanced towards the Harper's Ferry Rd and
                            the 9th NY wheeled towards Sharpsburg. Is there any reason why
                            these two monuments are where they are?

                            Thanks for any help,

                            Matt

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Dave
                            Matt, here is the link to Trail s dissertation, from Larry s post #5874 (it is a direct download link):
                            Message 13 of 13 , Nov 23, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Matt, here is the link to Trail's dissertation, from Larry's post #5874
                              (it is a direct download link):

                              http://www.lib.umd.edu/drum/bitstream/1903/2353/1/umi-umd-2211.pdf

                              I think it will answer a lot of questions, it sure did for me.

                              Dave McGowan


                              Matt Reardon wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Thanks everyone.
                              >
                              > I have tried to contact the NPS, never got a response back. I also
                              > went to Post #5938, linked there was a book about the US Signal Corps.
                              >
                              > My next question probably won't have an answer. Why does the NPS
                              > continue to tell people that the 9th NY advanced the farthest at that
                              > point when we all know they didn't? And why do they get their
                              > monument on the park guide map?
                              >
                              > Why is one units monument better than any of the others?
                              >
                              > Just a little side note. My interest in these monuments stems from my
                              > relation with the 8th Connecticut. It was my g-g-g grandfathers first
                              > battle. He served in Co. G.
                              >
                              > Thanks again,
                              > Matt
                              >
                              > --- On Sun, 11/22/09, G E Mayers <gerry1952@...
                              > <mailto:gerry1952%40verizon.net>> wrote:
                              >
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