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Re: [TalkAntietam] re R H Anderson Division early morning to mornig of Sept 17

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  • G E Mayers
    Dean, Again thanks. However, I have Sounding the Shallows, so will need to find that and look up the citation. If you look up the last paragraphs of that
    Message 1 of 28 , Oct 29, 2009
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      Dean,

      Again thanks. However, I have Sounding the Shallows, so will need
      to find that and look up the citation.

      If you look up the last paragraphs of that citation in Sounding
      the Shallows, it sounds as if the division took quite a while to
      ford the river and march towards Sharpsburg....

      Yr. Obt. Svt.
      G E "Gerry" Mayers

      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
      on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
      Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
      the Almighty God. --Anonymous
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Dean Essig" <d.essig@...>
      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 11:39 AM
      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re R H Anderson Division early
      morning to mornig of Sept 17


      >
      > On Oct 28, 2009, at 2:37 PM, G E Mayers wrote:
      >
      >> Good points etc. But how can we really be sure?
      >
      > You can't, you can only look at the available evidence.
      >
      >> Anderson was not
      >> really part of M'Laws once he reaches Sharpsburg, regardless
      >> of
      >> what M'Laws says in his OR report.
      >
      > McLaws didn't imply that Anderson was under his command, that I
      > can
      > see... he was just carrying an order from Longstreet to the guy
      > in
      > charge of the division coming up behind his own.
      >
      >> Since other maps I have seen
      >> indicate (and I think the map you mentioned earlier for the
      >> slightly later time frame) Anderson somewhere near the Michael
      >> farm, that is slightly to the north of the village.
      >
      > This is correct and based on the Carmen-Cope maps, he arrived
      > there
      > between 0830 and 0900 (the time of the next earlier map...where
      > the
      > division is not shown at all... and the next one where the
      > division
      > is moving through the Michael farm on its way forward to the
      > Sunken
      > Road.
      >
      >> The problem
      >> with Cemetery Hill (what we know now as that was actually the
      >> hill...with a cornfield...right by the Lutheran cemetery) is
      >> that
      >> it lies to the _east_ of the village.
      >
      > Sure, and all accounts I've been able to find state that
      > Longstreet's
      > order was for Anderson to move to the hill "beyond" the town
      > (which
      > works just fine for Cem Hill). McLaws himself, Carmen and Harsh
      > (pg
      > 367) all agree on this... and all use McLaws' OR report as the
      > source.
      >
      > I have not been able to find an account where the order
      > specified
      > "north" of the town, please tell me where you saw it.
      >
      > You might find Sounding the Shallows, Chapter 9 part I, pg
      > 198-199 of
      > use.
      >
      > Dean
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
    • Dean Essig
      ... Gerry, Not sure what to make of Gibson s time hack. The time may be accurate (who knows?), but the location near the battlefield is very vague. No way of
      Message 2 of 28 , Oct 29, 2009
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        On Oct 29, 2009, at 12:54 PM, G E Mayers wrote:

        > If you look up the last paragraphs of that citation in Sounding
        > the Shallows, it sounds as if the division took quite a while to
        > ford the river and march towards Sharpsburg....

        Gerry,

        Not sure what to make of Gibson's time hack. The time may be accurate
        (who knows?), but the location "near the battlefield" is very vague.
        No way of knowing if either point means much as the context. is lost.

        If we assume 0700 was the time the division bumped into the back end
        of McLaws, which was busy crossing the ford, and stopped is "arriving
        near the battlefield", that allows two hours for not only McLaws
        _and_ Anderson to fully cross, march down the tow path and head up
        toward the town (a read on that distance would be helpful), but also
        for ...

        1) Anderson to get and act on what might have been two orders (one
        carried by McLaws to move through town and another, supposed by
        Harsh, to have sent him north of town to act as Longstreet's reserve),

        2) to actually pass through (or allow to pass) the rear of McLaws on
        his way north,

        3) March the distance north of town to Michaels, and

        4) Start to execute an order to move to the Sunken Road.

        That's a lot to do in the time available.

        Dean





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • G E Mayers
        Dean, IIRC Anderson does not get the order to move to Sunken Road and actually start doing so until around 1000... which might give him plenty of time. Trying
        Message 3 of 28 , Oct 29, 2009
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          Dean,

          IIRC Anderson does not get the order to move to Sunken Road and
          actually start doing so until around 1000... which might give him
          plenty of time.

          Trying to reconcile some diverging bits of information as part of
          my book project about the 4th NC etc.

          Yr. Obt. Svt.
          G E "Gerry" Mayers

          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
          on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
          Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
          the Almighty God. --Anonymous
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Dean Essig" <d.essig@...>
          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 2:11 PM
          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re R H Anderson Division early
          morning to mornig of Sept 17


          > On Oct 29, 2009, at 12:54 PM, G E Mayers wrote:
          >
          >> If you look up the last paragraphs of that citation in
          >> Sounding
          >> the Shallows, it sounds as if the division took quite a while
          >> to
          >> ford the river and march towards Sharpsburg....
          >
          > Gerry,
          >
          > Not sure what to make of Gibson's time hack. The time may be
          > accurate
          > (who knows?), but the location "near the battlefield" is very
          > vague.
          > No way of knowing if either point means much as the context. is
          > lost.
          >
          > If we assume 0700 was the time the division bumped into the
          > back end
          > of McLaws, which was busy crossing the ford, and stopped is
          > "arriving
          > near the battlefield", that allows two hours for not only
          > McLaws
          > _and_ Anderson to fully cross, march down the tow path and head
          > up
          > toward the town (a read on that distance would be helpful), but
          > also
          > for ...
          >
          > 1) Anderson to get and act on what might have been two orders
          > (one
          > carried by McLaws to move through town and another, supposed by
          > Harsh, to have sent him north of town to act as Longstreet's
          > reserve),
          >
          > 2) to actually pass through (or allow to pass) the rear of
          > McLaws on
          > his way north,
          >
          > 3) March the distance north of town to Michaels, and
          >
          > 4) Start to execute an order to move to the Sunken Road.
          >
          > That's a lot to do in the time available.
          >
          > Dean
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
        • Dean Essig
          ... Gerry, Looking forward to the book. My 0900 time is from the Carmen-Cope map (only)... there it not only shows the division straddling Michael, but has an
          Message 4 of 28 , Oct 29, 2009
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            On Oct 29, 2009, at 1:18 PM, G E Mayers wrote:

            > IIRC Anderson does not get the order to move to Sunken Road and
            > actually start doing so until around 1000... which might give him
            > plenty of time.

            Gerry,

            Looking forward to the book.

            My 0900 time is from the Carmen-Cope map (only)... there it not only
            shows the division straddling Michael, but has an arrow, indication
            movement, taking it further forward (toward the Sunken Road).

            Sadly the next map is 1030, showing the division fully engaged at the
            Sunken Road. So, the movement into that action occurs some time
            between 0900 and 1030... with a very short (relatively) distance to
            travel.

            Pinning that down better will be quite tough. 1000 is not a bad
            estimate.

            Good luck!

            Dean



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • G E Mayers
            Dear Dean, The book is historical fiction but am trying to get all the little nuances _accurate_ as possible and it covers the entire 1862 MD Campaign from
            Message 5 of 28 , Oct 29, 2009
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              Dear Dean,

              The book is historical fiction but am trying to get all the
              little nuances _accurate_ as possible and it covers the entire
              1862 MD Campaign from perspectives of two pards in the 4th NC and
              also a young officer who finds himself on Longstreet's staff
              temporarily.....

              I think I will go with the time frame you mention as to when they
              advance. Would it be plausible to show the division somewhere
              near the Shepherdstown Road between Shepherdstown and Sharpsburg
              by 0700 (at the latest)?

              Yr. Obt. Svt.
              G E "Gerry" Mayers

              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
              on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
              Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
              the Almighty God. --Anonymous
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Dean Essig" <d.essig@...>
              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 2:24 PM
              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re R H Anderson Division early
              morning to mornig of Sept 17


              >
              > On Oct 29, 2009, at 1:18 PM, G E Mayers wrote:
              >
              >> IIRC Anderson does not get the order to move to Sunken Road
              >> and
              >> actually start doing so until around 1000... which might give
              >> him
              >> plenty of time.
              >
              > Gerry,
              >
              > Looking forward to the book.
              >
              > My 0900 time is from the Carmen-Cope map (only)... there it not
              > only
              > shows the division straddling Michael, but has an arrow,
              > indication
              > movement, taking it further forward (toward the Sunken Road).
              >
              > Sadly the next map is 1030, showing the division fully engaged
              > at the
              > Sunken Road. So, the movement into that action occurs some time
              > between 0900 and 1030... with a very short (relatively)
              > distance to
              > travel.
              >
              > Pinning that down better will be quite tough. 1000 is not a bad
              > estimate.
              >
              > Good luck!
              >
              > Dean
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
            • Dean Essig
              ... Seems a bit early to me... not impossibly so, that depends on how long it took the rear of McLaws to close up west of town. My gut says they were still in
              Message 6 of 28 , Oct 29, 2009
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                On Oct 29, 2009, at 1:33 PM, G E Mayers wrote:

                > I think I will go with the time frame you mention as to when they
                > advance. Would it be plausible to show the division somewhere
                > near the Shepherdstown Road between Shepherdstown and Sharpsburg
                > by 0700 (at the latest)?

                Seems a bit early to me... not impossibly so, that depends on how
                long it took the rear of McLaws to close up west of town.

                My gut says they were still in the act of crossing the ford at that
                point.

                But that's all guesswork.

                Dean



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • G E Mayers
                Dean; Sometimes that is all there is to go on. With historical fiction you can take some liberties but I would prefer not to take too many with actual
                Message 7 of 28 , Oct 29, 2009
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                  Dean;

                  Sometimes that is all there is to go on.

                  With historical fiction you can take some liberties but I would
                  prefer not to take too many with actual historical facts....

                  Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  G E "Gerry" Mayers

                  To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                  on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                  Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                  the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Dean Essig" <d.essig@...>
                  To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 2:47 PM
                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re R H Anderson Division early
                  morning to mornig of Sept 17


                  > On Oct 29, 2009, at 1:33 PM, G E Mayers wrote:
                  >
                  >> I think I will go with the time frame you mention as to when
                  >> they
                  >> advance. Would it be plausible to show the division somewhere
                  >> near the Shepherdstown Road between Shepherdstown and
                  >> Sharpsburg
                  >> by 0700 (at the latest)?
                  >
                  > Seems a bit early to me... not impossibly so, that depends on
                  > how
                  > long it took the rear of McLaws to close up west of town.
                  >
                  > My gut says they were still in the act of crossing the ford at
                  > that
                  > point.
                  >
                  > But that's all guesswork.
                  >
                  > Dean
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                • Stephen Recker
                  Anyone know when that log cabin went up? The one just behind the 130th PA monument. Thanks. Stephen
                  Message 8 of 28 , Nov 1, 2009
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                    Anyone know when that log cabin went up? The one just behind the 130th
                    PA monument. Thanks.

                    Stephen
                  • G E Mayers
                    Stephen, Are you referencing the cabin along the southern side of the Sunken Road in the famous post war photo? IIRC that was the home of Jerry Summers, a
                    Message 9 of 28 , Nov 1, 2009
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                      Stephen,

                      Are you referencing the cabin along the southern side of the
                      Sunken Road in the famous post war photo? IIRC that was the home
                      of Jerry Summers, a former slave of the Henry Piper family....
                      and also IRRC the cabin was built post war and was there when the
                      photo was taken in 1885.

                      Tom Clemens might be able to be more helpful.

                      Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      G E "Gerry" Mayers

                      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                      on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                      Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                      the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 11:13 AM
                      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Log cabin in the Sunken Road


                      > Anyone know when that log cabin went up? The one just behind
                      > the 130th
                      > PA monument. Thanks.
                      >
                      > Stephen
                      >
                      >
                    • RoteBaron
                      Stephen, Here is a posting that I saved from Ranger Brian Baracz on Aug 28, 2006 regarding Lowman cabin.... A recent question to the group asked about a
                      Message 10 of 28 , Nov 1, 2009
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                        Stephen,



                        Here is a posting that I saved from Ranger Brian Baracz on Aug 28, 2006 regarding Lowman cabin....



                        A recent question to the group asked about a structure in the background of a photo posted on the NPS Antietam site. Albert Kern visited the battlefield numerous times and took many great pictures during the early 1900's. One of his images of the Sunken Road shows a man standing in the road and in the background is a house on the crest of a hill right on the Sunken Road. The house in question is that of Henry Lowman. Lowman bought the land from the Mumma Family in 1873 and built the home that is in the picture. It was removed by the park in the late 1970's or early 80's because it was not there during the battle.



                        It has been discovered that the Mumma Family owned quite a bit of land,even tracts that are west of Maryland Route 65. The Mummas did own the land on which the 130 PA monument sits today, which is also where the Lowman Cabin once stood. The park has no doubt that the building in this picture is that of the Lowman Cabin.



                        Tom Shay





                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Stephen Recker
                        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 11:13 AM
                        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Log cabin in the Sunken Road


                        Anyone know when that log cabin went up? The one just behind the 130th
                        PA monument. Thanks.

                        Stephen





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Stephen Recker
                        Gerry, Yes, that s the one. It was the home of Mr. and Mrs. Emory Em Summers. Em s mother was a slave of the Henry Piper family. Thanks, Stephen ...
                        Message 11 of 28 , Nov 2, 2009
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                          Gerry,

                          Yes, that's the one. It was the home of Mr. and Mrs. Emory "Em"
                          Summers. Em's mother was a slave of the Henry Piper family.

                          Thanks,
                          Stephen

                          On Sunday, November 1, 2009, at 08:30 PM, G E Mayers wrote:

                          >  
                          > Stephen,
                          >
                          > Are you referencing the cabin along the southern side of the
                          > Sunken Road in the famous post war photo? IIRC that was the home
                          > of Jerry Summers, a former slave of the Henry Piper family....
                          > and also IRRC the cabin was built post war and was there when the
                          > photo was taken in 1885.
                          >
                          > Tom Clemens might be able to be more helpful.
                          >
                          > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                          > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                          >
                          > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                          > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                          > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                          > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                          > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 11:13 AM
                          > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Log cabin in the Sunken Road
                          >
                          > > Anyone know when that log cabin went up? The one just behind
                          > > the 130th
                          > > PA monument. Thanks.
                          > >
                          > > Stephen
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Stephen Recker
                          I just found another article that says the Em s wife died in 1937 and that she was the wife of a Piper Slave. Hmm, maybe him and his mom were slaves there?
                          Message 12 of 28 , Nov 2, 2009
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                            I just found another article that says the Em's wife died in 1937 and
                            that she was the wife of a Piper Slave. Hmm, maybe him and his mom were
                            slaves there?

                            Stephen

                            On Sunday, November 1, 2009, at 08:30 PM, G E Mayers wrote:

                            >  
                            > Stephen,
                            >
                            > Are you referencing the cabin along the southern side of the
                            > Sunken Road in the famous post war photo? IIRC that was the home
                            > of Jerry Summers, a former slave of the Henry Piper family....
                            > and also IRRC the cabin was built post war and was there when the
                            > photo was taken in 1885.
                            >
                            > Tom Clemens might be able to be more helpful.
                            >
                            > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                            > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                            >
                            > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                            > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                            > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                            > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                            > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                            > Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 11:13 AM
                            > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Log cabin in the Sunken Road
                            >
                            > > Anyone know when that log cabin went up? The one just behind
                            > > the 130th
                            > > PA monument. Thanks.
                            > >
                            > > Stephen
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Stephen Recker
                            This is great stuff. Thanks! Was it one building with the Summers and the Lowman family sharing? Stephen ... [Non-text portions of this message have been
                            Message 13 of 28 , Nov 2, 2009
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                              This is great stuff. Thanks!

                              Was it one building with the Summers and the Lowman family sharing?

                              Stephen


                              On Sunday, November 1, 2009, at 10:03 PM, RoteBaron wrote:

                              >  
                              > Stephen,
                              >
                              > Here is a posting that I saved from Ranger Brian Baracz on Aug 28,
                              > 2006 regarding Lowman cabin....
                              >
                              > A recent question to the group asked about a structure in the
                              > background of a photo posted on the NPS Antietam site. Albert Kern
                              > visited the battlefield numerous times and took many great pictures
                              > during the early 1900's. One of his images of the Sunken Road shows a
                              > man standing in the road and in the background is a house on the crest
                              > of a hill right on the Sunken Road. The house in question is that of
                              > Henry Lowman. Lowman bought the land from the Mumma Family in 1873 and
                              > built the home that is in the picture. It was removed by the park in
                              > the late 1970's or early 80's because it was not there during the
                              > battle.
                              >
                              > It has been discovered that the Mumma Family owned quite a bit of
                              > land,even tracts that are west of Maryland Route 65. The Mummas did
                              > own the land on which the 130 PA monument sits today, which is also
                              > where the Lowman Cabin once stood. The park has no doubt that the
                              > building in this picture is that of the Lowman Cabin.
                              >
                              > Tom Shay
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: Stephen Recker
                              > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 11:13 AM
                              > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Log cabin in the Sunken Road
                              >
                              > Anyone know when that log cabin went up? The one just behind the 130th
                              > PA monument. Thanks.
                              >
                              > Stephen
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • G E Mayers
                              Stephen and Tom, Are you not talking about two separate cabins? Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
                              Message 14 of 28 , Nov 2, 2009
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                                Stephen and Tom,

                                Are you not talking about two separate cabins?

                                Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                                on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                                Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                                the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                                To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 6:08 AM
                                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Log cabin in the Sunken Road


                                This is great stuff. Thanks!

                                Was it one building with the Summers and the Lowman family
                                sharing?

                                Stephen


                                On Sunday, November 1, 2009, at 10:03 PM, RoteBaron wrote:

                                >
                                > Stephen,
                                >
                                > Here is a posting that I saved from Ranger Brian Baracz on Aug
                                > 28,
                                > 2006 regarding Lowman cabin....
                                >
                                > A recent question to the group asked about a structure in the
                                > background of a photo posted on the NPS Antietam site. Albert
                                > Kern
                                > visited the battlefield numerous times and took many great
                                > pictures
                                > during the early 1900's. One of his images of the Sunken Road
                                > shows a
                                > man standing in the road and in the background is a house on
                                > the crest
                                > of a hill right on the Sunken Road. The house in question is
                                > that of
                                > Henry Lowman. Lowman bought the land from the Mumma Family in
                                > 1873 and
                                > built the home that is in the picture. It was removed by the
                                > park in
                                > the late 1970's or early 80's because it was not there during
                                > the
                                > battle.
                                >
                                > It has been discovered that the Mumma Family owned quite a bit
                                > of
                                > land,even tracts that are west of Maryland Route 65. The Mummas
                                > did
                                > own the land on which the 130 PA monument sits today, which is
                                > also
                                > where the Lowman Cabin once stood. The park has no doubt that
                                > the
                                > building in this picture is that of the Lowman Cabin.
                                >
                                > Tom Shay
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: Stephen Recker
                                > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 11:13 AM
                                > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Log cabin in the Sunken Road
                                >
                                > Anyone know when that log cabin went up? The one just behind
                                > the 130th
                                > PA monument. Thanks.
                                >
                                > Stephen
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Thomas Clemens
                                I am not able to access my sources right now, but yes, I think we are talking about two cabins, one disappearing much earlier than the other. Also, IIRC,
                                Message 15 of 28 , Nov 2, 2009
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                                  I am not able to access my sources right now, but yes, I think we are talking about two cabins, one disappearing much earlier than the other. Also, IIRC, Henry Piper only owned one slave, which was a man, I think.
                                  On another topic, I read a letter last night from a soldier in the 12th Corps who said hat on the march from DC they encountered some 9th Corps soldiers he described as starving. He said they offered 50 cents for a hard tack cracker! Wow, I always had to have some point a gun at me to make me eat those things. :-)


                                  Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
                                  Professor of History
                                  Hagerstown Community College




                                  >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> 11/2/2009 7:11 AM >>>

                                  Stephen and Tom,

                                  Are you not talking about two separate cabins?

                                  Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                  G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                  To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                                  on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                                  Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                                  the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                                  To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 6:08 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Log cabin in the Sunken Road

                                  This is great stuff. Thanks!

                                  Was it one building with the Summers and the Lowman family
                                  sharing?

                                  Stephen

                                  On Sunday, November 1, 2009, at 10:03 PM, RoteBaron wrote:

                                  >
                                  > Stephen,
                                  >
                                  > Here is a posting that I saved from Ranger Brian Baracz on Aug
                                  > 28,
                                  > 2006 regarding Lowman cabin....
                                  >
                                  > A recent question to the group asked about a structure in the
                                  > background of a photo posted on the NPS Antietam site. Albert
                                  > Kern
                                  > visited the battlefield numerous times and took many great
                                  > pictures
                                  > during the early 1900's. One of his images of the Sunken Road
                                  > shows a
                                  > man standing in the road and in the background is a house on
                                  > the crest
                                  > of a hill right on the Sunken Road. The house in question is
                                  > that of
                                  > Henry Lowman. Lowman bought the land from the Mumma Family in
                                  > 1873 and
                                  > built the home that is in the picture. It was removed by the
                                  > park in
                                  > the late 1970's or early 80's because it was not there during
                                  > the
                                  > battle.
                                  >
                                  > It has been discovered that the Mumma Family owned quite a bit
                                  > of
                                  > land,even tracts that are west of Maryland Route 65. The Mummas
                                  > did
                                  > own the land on which the 130 PA monument sits today, which is
                                  > also
                                  > where the Lowman Cabin once stood. The park has no doubt that
                                  > the
                                  > building in this picture is that of the Lowman Cabin.
                                  >
                                  > Tom Shay
                                  >
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: Stephen Recker
                                  > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 11:13 AM
                                  > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Log cabin in the Sunken Road
                                  >
                                  > Anyone know when that log cabin went up? The one just behind
                                  > the 130th
                                  > PA monument. Thanks.
                                  >
                                  > Stephen
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • G E Mayers
                                  Tom, interesting stuff. As to the hardtack, it depends on how made etc..... From all the years I have been making it, I have found it is as much an art as
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Nov 2, 2009
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Tom, interesting stuff. As to the hardtack, it depends on how
                                    made etc.....

                                    From all the years I have been making it, I have found it is as
                                    much an art as science.

                                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                    To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                                    on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                                    Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                                    the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
                                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 10:00 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Log cabin in the Sunken Road


                                    >I am not able to access my sources right now, but yes, I think
                                    >we are talking about two cabins, one disappearing much earlier
                                    >than the other. Also, IIRC, Henry Piper only owned one slave,
                                    >which was a man, I think.
                                    > On another topic, I read a letter last night from a soldier in
                                    > the 12th Corps who said hat on the march from DC they
                                    > encountered some 9th Corps soldiers he described as starving.
                                    > He said they offered 50 cents for a hard tack cracker! Wow, I
                                    > always had to have some point a gun at me to make me eat those
                                    > things. :-)
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
                                    > Professor of History
                                    > Hagerstown Community College
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >>>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> 11/2/2009 7:11 AM >>>
                                    >
                                    > Stephen and Tom,
                                    >
                                    > Are you not talking about two separate cabins?
                                    >
                                    > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                    > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                    >
                                    > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                                    > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                                    > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                                    > from
                                    > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                                    > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                    > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 6:08 AM
                                    > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Log cabin in the Sunken Road
                                    >
                                    > This is great stuff. Thanks!
                                    >
                                    > Was it one building with the Summers and the Lowman family
                                    > sharing?
                                    >
                                    > Stephen
                                    >
                                    > On Sunday, November 1, 2009, at 10:03 PM, RoteBaron wrote:
                                    >
                                    >>
                                    >> Stephen,
                                    >>
                                    >> Here is a posting that I saved from Ranger Brian Baracz on Aug
                                    >> 28,
                                    >> 2006 regarding Lowman cabin....
                                    >>
                                    >> A recent question to the group asked about a structure in the
                                    >> background of a photo posted on the NPS Antietam site. Albert
                                    >> Kern
                                    >> visited the battlefield numerous times and took many great
                                    >> pictures
                                    >> during the early 1900's. One of his images of the Sunken Road
                                    >> shows a
                                    >> man standing in the road and in the background is a house on
                                    >> the crest
                                    >> of a hill right on the Sunken Road. The house in question is
                                    >> that of
                                    >> Henry Lowman. Lowman bought the land from the Mumma Family in
                                    >> 1873 and
                                    >> built the home that is in the picture. It was removed by the
                                    >> park in
                                    >> the late 1970's or early 80's because it was not there during
                                    >> the
                                    >> battle.
                                    >>
                                    >> It has been discovered that the Mumma Family owned quite a bit
                                    >> of
                                    >> land,even tracts that are west of Maryland Route 65. The
                                    >> Mummas
                                    >> did
                                    >> own the land on which the 130 PA monument sits today, which is
                                    >> also
                                    >> where the Lowman Cabin once stood. The park has no doubt that
                                    >> the
                                    >> building in this picture is that of the Lowman Cabin.
                                    >>
                                    >> Tom Shay
                                    >>
                                    >> ----- Original Message -----
                                    >> From: Stephen Recker
                                    >> To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                    >> Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 11:13 AM
                                    >> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Log cabin in the Sunken Road
                                    >>
                                    >> Anyone know when that log cabin went up? The one just behind
                                    >> the 130th
                                    >> PA monument. Thanks.
                                    >>
                                    >> Stephen
                                    >>
                                    >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • david lutton
                                    Tom, Imagine yourself on this campaign.... Hot dusty marches..Commissary wagons not keeping up or lost...I think that after a few days that Hard Tack would
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Nov 2, 2009
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Tom,

                                      Imagine yourself on this campaign.... Hot dusty marches..Commissary wagons not keeping up or lost...I think that after a few days that Hard Tack would look pretty good!!

                                      David Lutton
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: Thomas Clemens
                                      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 10:00 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Log cabin in the Sunken Road


                                      I am not able to access my sources right now, but yes, I think we are talking about two cabins, one disappearing much earlier than the other. Also, IIRC, Henry Piper only owned one slave, which was a man, I think.
                                      On another topic, I read a letter last night from a soldier in the 12th Corps who said hat on the march from DC they encountered some 9th Corps soldiers he described as starving. He said they offered 50 cents for a hard tack cracker! Wow, I always had to have some point a gun at me to make me eat those things. :-)


                                      Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
                                      Professor of History
                                      Hagerstown Community College




                                      >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> 11/2/2009 7:11 AM >>>

                                      Stephen and Tom,

                                      Are you not talking about two separate cabins?

                                      Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                      G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                                      on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                                      Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                                      the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                                      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 6:08 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Log cabin in the Sunken Road

                                      This is great stuff. Thanks!

                                      Was it one building with the Summers and the Lowman family
                                      sharing?

                                      Stephen

                                      On Sunday, November 1, 2009, at 10:03 PM, RoteBaron wrote:

                                      >
                                      > Stephen,
                                      >
                                      > Here is a posting that I saved from Ranger Brian Baracz on Aug
                                      > 28,
                                      > 2006 regarding Lowman cabin....
                                      >
                                      > A recent question to the group asked about a structure in the
                                      > background of a photo posted on the NPS Antietam site. Albert
                                      > Kern
                                      > visited the battlefield numerous times and took many great
                                      > pictures
                                      > during the early 1900's. One of his images of the Sunken Road
                                      > shows a
                                      > man standing in the road and in the background is a house on
                                      > the crest
                                      > of a hill right on the Sunken Road. The house in question is
                                      > that of
                                      > Henry Lowman. Lowman bought the land from the Mumma Family in
                                      > 1873 and
                                      > built the home that is in the picture. It was removed by the
                                      > park in
                                      > the late 1970's or early 80's because it was not there during
                                      > the
                                      > battle.
                                      >
                                      > It has been discovered that the Mumma Family owned quite a bit
                                      > of
                                      > land,even tracts that are west of Maryland Route 65. The Mummas
                                      > did
                                      > own the land on which the 130 PA monument sits today, which is
                                      > also
                                      > where the Lowman Cabin once stood. The park has no doubt that
                                      > the
                                      > building in this picture is that of the Lowman Cabin.
                                      >
                                      > Tom Shay
                                      >
                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > From: Stephen Recker
                                      > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 11:13 AM
                                      > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Log cabin in the Sunken Road
                                      >
                                      > Anyone know when that log cabin went up? The one just behind
                                      > the 130th
                                      > PA monument. Thanks.
                                      >
                                      > Stephen
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                      >

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Thomas Clemens
                                      And that s exactly the point Dave. Too many authors often make assumptions that the Union army was always well fed and well suplied. Reading these letters to
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Nov 2, 2009
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                                        And that's exactly the point Dave. Too many authors often make assumptions that the Union army was always well fed and well suplied. Reading these letters to the Battlefield Board, and many other sources too of course, it appears that this was not the case in the Maryland Campaign.

                                        Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                                        Professor of History
                                        Hagerstown Community College


                                        >>> "david lutton" <dunkerch@...> 11/02/09 7:49 PM >>>
                                        Tom,

                                        Imagine yourself on this campaign.... Hot dusty marches..Commissary wagons not keeping up or lost...I think that after a few days that Hard Tack would look pretty good!!

                                        David Lutton
                                      • Scott D. Hann
                                        Tom, excellent point. In the writings of Colonel Edward Cross of the 5th New Hampshire he mentions a good number of his men were without shoes at Antietam.
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Nov 2, 2009
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Tom, excellent point. In the writings of Colonel Edward Cross of the 5th New Hampshire he mentions a good number of his men were without shoes at Antietam.


                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: Thomas Clemens
                                          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:05 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Log cabin in the Sunken Road


                                          And that's exactly the point Dave. Too many authors often make assumptions that the Union army was always well fed and well suplied. Reading these letters to the Battlefield Board, and many other sources too of course, it appears that this was not the case in the Maryland Campaign.

                                          Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                                          Professor of History
                                          Hagerstown Community College

                                          >>> "david lutton" <dunkerch@...> 11/02/09 7:49 PM >>>
                                          Tom,

                                          Imagine yourself on this campaign.... Hot dusty marches..Commissary wagons not keeping up or lost...I think that after a few days that Hard Tack would look pretty good!!

                                          David Lutton





                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • G E Mayers
                                          Guys; In all fairness to Mac, this area...logistics....was one of the major problems with why he could not effectively pursue the ANVa following
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Nov 2, 2009
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Guys;

                                            In all fairness to Mac, this area...logistics....was one of the
                                            major problems with why he could not effectively pursue the ANVa
                                            following Sharpsburg...something Lincoln and Stanton did not
                                            understand. Halleck should have been able to understand that
                                            though.

                                            Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                            G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                                            on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                                            Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                                            the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: "Scott D. Hann" <sdhann@...>
                                            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 10:01 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Log cabin in the Sunken Road


                                            > Tom, excellent point. In the writings of Colonel Edward Cross
                                            > of the 5th New Hampshire he mentions a good number of his men
                                            > were without shoes at Antietam.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > From: Thomas Clemens
                                            > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:05 PM
                                            > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Log cabin in the Sunken Road
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > And that's exactly the point Dave. Too many authors often
                                            > make assumptions that the Union army was always well fed and
                                            > well suplied. Reading these letters to the Battlefield Board,
                                            > and many other sources too of course, it appears that this was
                                            > not the case in the Maryland Campaign.
                                            >
                                            > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                                            > Professor of History
                                            > Hagerstown Community College
                                            >
                                            > >>> "david lutton" <dunkerch@...> 11/02/09 7:49 PM
                                            > >>>
                                            > Tom,
                                            >
                                            > Imagine yourself on this campaign.... Hot dusty
                                            > marches..Commissary wagons not keeping up or lost...I think
                                            > that after a few days that Hard Tack would look pretty good!!
                                            >
                                            > David Lutton
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
                                            >
                                          • G E Mayers
                                            If you look at Troiani s painting about the advance of the Irish Brigade, you do see some barefoot soldiers............. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Nov 2, 2009
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              If you look at Troiani's painting about the advance of the Irish
                                              Brigade, you do see some barefoot soldiers.............

                                              Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                              G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                                              on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                                              Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                                              the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
                                              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:05 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Log cabin in the Sunken Road


                                              And that's exactly the point Dave. Too many authors often make
                                              assumptions that the Union army was always well fed and well
                                              suplied. Reading these letters to the Battlefield Board, and
                                              many other sources too of course, it appears that this was not
                                              the case in the Maryland Campaign.

                                              Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                                              Professor of History
                                              Hagerstown Community College


                                              >>> "david lutton" <dunkerch@...> 11/02/09 7:49 PM >>>
                                              Tom,

                                              Imagine yourself on this campaign.... Hot dusty
                                              marches..Commissary wagons not keeping up or lost...I think that
                                              after a few days that Hard Tack would look pretty good!!

                                              David Lutton
                                            • G E Mayers
                                              There is also discussion of Jerry Summers in Kathleen Ernst s book on Maryland Civilians in the Civil War. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian,
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Feb 24, 2010
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                There is also discussion of Jerry Summers in Kathleen Ernst's book on Maryland Civilians in the Civil War.

                                                Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                                G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                                To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                                                To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                                Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 3:52 PM
                                                Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Log cabin in the Sunken Road


                                                Stephen,

                                                You likely have already seen the article in Catoctin History magazine, issue 11 2009, in which there is a photo and some discussion about Jeremiah Cornelius Summers and his home on Bloody Lane (pp. 20-21)? The name of the article is "The Dignity of Free Men: The Story of Tolson's Chapel in Sharpsburg" by Edie Wallace.

                                                Larry

                                                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > This is great stuff. Thanks!
                                                >
                                                > Was it one building with the Summers and the Lowman family sharing?
                                                >
                                                > Stephen
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > On Sunday, November 1, 2009, at 10:03 PM, RoteBaron wrote:
                                                >
                                                > >
                                                > > Stephen,
                                                > >
                                                > > Here is a posting that I saved from Ranger Brian Baracz on Aug 28,
                                                > > 2006 regarding Lowman cabin....
                                                > >
                                                > > A recent question to the group asked about a structure in the
                                                > > background of a photo posted on the NPS Antietam site. Albert Kern
                                                > > visited the battlefield numerous times and took many great pictures
                                                > > during the early 1900's. One of his images of the Sunken Road shows a
                                                > > man standing in the road and in the background is a house on the crest
                                                > > of a hill right on the Sunken Road. The house in question is that of
                                                > > Henry Lowman. Lowman bought the land from the Mumma Family in 1873 and
                                                > > built the home that is in the picture. It was removed by the park in
                                                > > the late 1970's or early 80's because it was not there during the
                                                > > battle.
                                                > >
                                                > > It has been discovered that the Mumma Family owned quite a bit of
                                                > > land,even tracts that are west of Maryland Route 65. The Mummas did
                                                > > own the land on which the 130 PA monument sits today, which is also
                                                > > where the Lowman Cabin once stood. The park has no doubt that the
                                                > > building in this picture is that of the Lowman Cabin.
                                                > >
                                                > > Tom Shay
                                                > >
                                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > > From: Stephen Recker
                                                > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 11:13 AM
                                                > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Log cabin in the Sunken Road
                                                > >
                                                > > Anyone know when that log cabin went up? The one just behind the 130th
                                                > > PA monument. Thanks.
                                                > >
                                                > > Stephen
                                                > >
                                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
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