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Re: Burnside Closer to HF than Franklin?

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  • eighth_conn_inf
    OR, pt. 2, pg. 258, Pleasonton reports that on 11 September General Franklin moved a division of his command forward this morning toward the cross-roads in
    Message 1 of 5 , Sep 17, 2009
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      OR, pt. 2, pg. 258, Pleasonton reports that on 11 September "General Franklin moved a division of his command forward this morning toward the cross-roads in front [of Sugarloaf]…." While there are crossroads all around the mountain, my guess is that Pleasonton meant the cross roads to the south or west of the mountain.

      On pg. 271, McClellan reports that "Sumner is near Urbana, with our advance guard thrown out to the Monocacy; Williams on his right; Franklin on his left; Couch at Barnesville." Sugarloaf is south, southwest of Urbana so I believe that it is fair to argue that Franklin's troops are at least between Urbana and Sugarloaf. Further, it is likely that his advance scouts are west of Sugarloaf probably even to the Monocacy. The summit of Sugarloaf is about 2 miles east of the Monocacy.

      The straight line distance from the summit of SL to HF is about the same distance as is Frederick to HF--about 19 miles (Urbana not much further maybe a couple of miles away). But had Franklin been ordered to march from the vicinity of SL to HF by the most direct route, and Burnside having received the same orders, Burnside would have gotten there first since he had a very good road heading southwest directly (more or less) from Frederick to HF while Franklin clearly did not have any good direct roads to HF. As I noted in a previous post, the marching mileage for Franklin would have been much longer.

      If Franklin is due south of Urbana rather than near or west of SL, then the straight-line distance from HF to Franklin is about 2 miles more than from HF to Frederick.

      Given the OR reports, I'm sorry that I do not see that Burnside was "much closer" to HF on the 11th/12th than Franklin even if Franklin's advance scouts are not on the Monocacy unless we are only talking about marching distances.

      If you have cites showing something other than the OR cites above, please let me know. Thank you.



      So Franklin is coming up the Urbana Pike towards Frederick; Burnside is ahead of him in Frederick.
      >
      > Where did you get that Franklin was west of Sugarloaf?
      >
    • wh_keene
      ... On the 10th Franklin marched to Barnesville (SE of Sugarloaf) and then on the 12th he marched to Urbana (NE of Sugarloaf). In between he sent a brigade to
      Message 2 of 5 , Sep 17, 2009
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        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...> wrote:
        >
        > OR, pt. 2, pg. 258, Pleasonton reports that on 11 September "General Franklin moved a division of his command forward this morning toward the cross-roads in front [of Sugarloaf]…." While there are crossroads all around the mountain, my guess is that Pleasonton meant the cross roads to the south or west of the mountain.
        >
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        On the 10th Franklin marched to Barnesville (SE of Sugarloaf) and then on the 12th he marched to Urbana (NE of Sugarloaf). In between he sent a brigade to advance on Sugarloaf from Barnesville. I dont see any reason to guess he went west of sugarloaf on the 11th. The crossroads Pleasanton mentioned would seem to me to be what is labeled as Stronghold Maryland on modern maps. At the end of Franklin's report is a series of itineraries for the divisions. The description of the movement for the 2nd divisions says it moved to the right of Sugarloaf. Approaching from Barnesville, the right would be east of it.



        > On pg. 271, McClellan reports that "Sumner is near Urbana, with our advance guard thrown out to the Monocacy; Williams on his right; Franklin on his left; Couch at Barnesville." Sugarloaf is south, southwest of Urbana so I believe that it is fair to argue that Franklin's troops are at least between Urbana and Sugarloaf. Further, it is likely that his advance scouts are west of Sugarloaf probably even to the Monocacy. The summit of Sugarloaf is about 2 miles east of the Monocacy.
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        I see no reason to guess that Franklin's advance scouts were west of Sugarloaf. As you point out, Franklin was between Sugarloaf and Urbana, which is north-northeast of Sugarloaf.



        > ...
        > Given the OR reports, I'm sorry that I do not see that Burnside was "much closer" to HF on the 11th/12th than Franklin even if Franklin's advance scouts are not on the Monocacy unless we are only talking about marching distances.
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        Why wouldnt we be talking about marching distances?
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