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Re: [TalkAntietam] re Murfin and description of Sunken Road fight

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  • Dean Essig
    Part of R.H. Anderson s division halted back there on its way forward. This is mentioned in Collins Rodes biography (and probably others I don t have handy at
    Message 1 of 18 , Jun 22, 2009
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      Part of R.H. Anderson's division halted back there on its way
      forward. This is mentioned in Collins' Rodes biography (and probably
      others I don't have handy at the moment). He mentions on pg 168 that
      one regiment and part of another of Pryor's Bde stopped in the Piper
      Orchard and Rodes had to demand that Pryor send them into the fight.

      I don't know that I'd call it a "second line", though.

      Dean

      On Jun 21, 2009, at 11:51 PM, G E Mayers wrote:

      > Murfin describes a second Confederate battle line just behind the
      > Sunken Road itself, on the edge of the Piper cornfield, in his
      > chapter on the Sunken Road fight.
      >
      > Any one know which Confederate units this second line might have
      > been composed of?



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • G E Mayers
      Dean, Thank you for that. However, if you have a copy of Murfin, see p. 250. For those who do not, here is what Murfin says, and I believe he is describing
      Message 2 of 18 , Jun 22, 2009
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        Dean,

        Thank you for that. However, if you have a copy of Murfin, see p.
        250. For those who do not, here is what Murfin says, and I
        believe he is describing when French has his division go in and
        attack:

        "It was the cornfield all over again. The first line halted,
        re-formed and moved again. And again they were stopped. Across
        the road, in the Piper fields, Rebel infantry fired over the
        heads of their comrades direct into the faces of the enemy."

        A little further below on the same page, Murfin mentions R H
        Anderson arriving in Sharpsburg just as the action breaks out and
        Longstreet, who was his commander (Anderson was Longstreet's
        reserve according to Harsh in TATF), ordered him up to the Piper
        Farm.

        Yr. Obt. Svt.
        G E "Gerry" Mayers

        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
        on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
        Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
        the Almighty God. --Anonymous
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Dean Essig" <d.essig@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:54 AM
        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Murfin and description of Sunken
        Road fight


        > Part of R.H. Anderson's division halted back there on its way
        > forward. This is mentioned in Collins' Rodes biography (and
        > probably
        > others I don't have handy at the moment). He mentions on pg 168
        > that
        > one regiment and part of another of Pryor's Bde stopped in the
        > Piper
        > Orchard and Rodes had to demand that Pryor send them into the
        > fight.
        >
        > I don't know that I'd call it a "second line", though.
        >
        > Dean
        >
        > On Jun 21, 2009, at 11:51 PM, G E Mayers wrote:
        >
        >> Murfin describes a second Confederate battle line just behind
        >> the
        >> Sunken Road itself, on the edge of the Piper cornfield, in his
        >> chapter on the Sunken Road fight.
        >>
        >> Any one know which Confederate units this second line might
        >> have
        >> been composed of?
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
      • Dean Essig
        Gerry, Do you have Unfurl those Colors? Mine isn t handy at the moment, but he goes into great detail about the ins and outs of the 2nd Corps attack and what
        Message 3 of 18 , Jun 22, 2009
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          Gerry,

          Do you have Unfurl those Colors? Mine isn't handy at the moment, but
          he goes into great detail about the ins and outs of the 2nd Corps
          attack and what it came up against.

          Remember that at the moment French struck, part of Rodes' Brigade had
          advanced forward of the Sunken Road in an action to seize the terrain
          about 100 yards in front. Murfin may be describing the firing of the
          men in the Sunken Road over the heads of those who did advance as
          they were coming back.

          Dean
        • G E Mayers
          Dear Dean, No, I do not have Unfurl Those Colors . What does Vince Armstrong mention about French s attack and any possible secondary line in the Piper fields
          Message 4 of 18 , Jun 22, 2009
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            Dear Dean,

            No, I do not have "Unfurl Those Colors". What does Vince
            Armstrong mention about French's attack and any possible
            secondary line in the Piper fields of Confederates?

            Murfin originally published his book in 1965.

            Yr. Obt. Svt.
            G E "Gerry" Mayers

            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
            on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
            Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
            the Almighty God. --Anonymous
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Dean Essig" <d.essig@...>
            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 8:52 AM
            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Murfin and description of Sunken
            Road fight


            > Gerry,
            >
            > Do you have Unfurl those Colors? Mine isn't handy at the
            > moment, but
            > he goes into great detail about the ins and outs of the 2nd
            > Corps
            > attack and what it came up against.
            >
            > Remember that at the moment French struck, part of Rodes'
            > Brigade had
            > advanced forward of the Sunken Road in an action to seize the
            > terrain
            > about 100 yards in front. Murfin may be describing the firing
            > of the
            > men in the Sunken Road over the heads of those who did advance
            > as
            > they were coming back.
            >
            > Dean
            >
          • eighth_conn_inf
            Gerry, Carman (Pierro p. 294) states: The Confederate line went back from the sunken road in some confusion, and when Caldwell followed into the corn the
            Message 5 of 18 , Jun 22, 2009
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              Gerry,

              Carman (Pierro p. 294) states:

              "The Confederate line went back from the sunken road in some confusion, and when Caldwell followed into the corn
              the confusion was increased and disorder reigned supreme. Brigade and regimental commanders undertook to rally their
              broken commands but found it impossible to do so, and the greater part of Hill's and Anderson's Divisions fell back to the
              Piper buildings and under cover of the ridge running from the barn to the Hagerstown
              Road; some were rallied behind
              the stone fences of the road, and all this at the time Longstreet was counting on their holding the sunken road and cooperating
              in the attack upon Kimball's flank by a united movement on Richardson's front and flank. Cooke and Cobb had
              moved promptly and been repulsed, but when the time came for the assistance of Hill's and Anderson's Divisions they had
              been driven from the sunken road and were in disorder. After great effort parts of each division were rallied and charged
              northeast through the orchard and corn to attack Richardson's left, Miller's Battery (with a small infantry support) being
              left in the orchard to hold the right and center in check. It is impossible to say with any degree of certainty how the brigades
              were formed in line. There is a general agreement that regiments and brigades were intermingled one with another and
              considerably disorganized and demoralized by the loss of an unusually large number of officers and many of the men. In a
              general sense D. H. Hill's Division was on the left, but when the charge had reached its limit some of his men were on the
              extreme right of R. H. Anderson's."

              Armstrong on p. 238, map 24, 12:15 PM, shows four Rebel regiments from left to right: 12 AL, 5 FL, 9 AL, and 4 NC. He discusses mainly Union activities not much about Confederate.

              CC map for Noon to 12:15 PM is less definitive than Armstrong's; the two regiments on either side of Miller's battery facing the Union advance are not labeled. Margin notes on the CC map for 1 PM echo Carman: "At 1 P.M., Anderson's and D.H. Hill's divisions had lost all organization, regiments and brigades being broken up and intermingled and in positions along the stone fences of the Hagerstown road and behind the ridge running from the road to and beyond Piper's barn; G.T. Anderson's brigade only preserved its organization."

              Larry F.



              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> wrote:
              >
              > Dear Dean,
              >
              > No, I do not have "Unfurl Those Colors". What does Vince
              > Armstrong mention about French's attack and any possible
              > secondary line in the Piper fields of Confederates?
              >
              > Murfin originally published his book in 1965.
              >
              > Yr. Obt. Svt.
              > G E "Gerry" Mayers
              >
              > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
              > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
              > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
              > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Dean Essig" <d.essig@...>
              > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 8:52 AM
              > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Murfin and description of Sunken
              > Road fight
              >
              >
              > > Gerry,
              > >
              > > Do you have Unfurl those Colors? Mine isn't handy at the
              > > moment, but
              > > he goes into great detail about the ins and outs of the 2nd
              > > Corps
              > > attack and what it came up against.
              > >
              > > Remember that at the moment French struck, part of Rodes'
              > > Brigade had
              > > advanced forward of the Sunken Road in an action to seize the
              > > terrain
              > > about 100 yards in front. Murfin may be describing the firing
              > > of the
              > > men in the Sunken Road over the heads of those who did advance
              > > as
              > > they were coming back.
              > >
              > > Dean
              > >
              >
            • G E Mayers
              Larry; What Murfin is saying in his book appears to be about when the initial Federal attacks occurred...not later. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A
              Message 6 of 18 , Jun 22, 2009
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                Larry;

                What Murfin is saying in his book appears to be about when the
                initial Federal attacks occurred...not later.

                Yr. Obt. Svt.
                G E "Gerry" Mayers

                To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:19 AM
                Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Murfin and description of Sunken
                Road fight


                Gerry,

                Carman (Pierro p. 294) states:

                "The Confederate line went back from the sunken road in some
                confusion, and when Caldwell followed into the corn
                the confusion was increased and disorder reigned supreme. Brigade
                and regimental commanders undertook to rally their
                broken commands but found it impossible to do so, and the greater
                part of Hill's and Anderson's Divisions fell back to the
                Piper buildings and under cover of the ridge running from the
                barn to the Hagerstown
                Road; some were rallied behind
                the stone fences of the road, and all this at the time Longstreet
                was counting on their holding the sunken road and cooperating
                in the attack upon Kimball's flank by a united movement on
                Richardson's front and flank. Cooke and Cobb had
                moved promptly and been repulsed, but when the time came for the
                assistance of Hill's and Anderson's Divisions they had
                been driven from the sunken road and were in disorder. After
                great effort parts of each division were rallied and charged
                northeast through the orchard and corn to attack Richardson's
                left, Miller's Battery (with a small infantry support) being
                left in the orchard to hold the right and center in check. It is
                impossible to say with any degree of certainty how the brigades
                were formed in line. There is a general agreement that regiments
                and brigades were intermingled one with another and
                considerably disorganized and demoralized by the loss of an
                unusually large number of officers and many of the men. In a
                general sense D. H. Hill's Division was on the left, but when the
                charge had reached its limit some of his men were on the
                extreme right of R. H. Anderson's."

                Armstrong on p. 238, map 24, 12:15 PM, shows four Rebel regiments
                from left to right: 12 AL, 5 FL, 9 AL, and 4 NC. He discusses
                mainly Union activities not much about Confederate.

                CC map for Noon to 12:15 PM is less definitive than Armstrong's;
                the two regiments on either side of Miller's battery facing the
                Union advance are not labeled. Margin notes on the CC map for 1
                PM echo Carman: "At 1 P.M., Anderson's and D.H. Hill's divisions
                had lost all organization, regiments and brigades being broken up
                and intermingled and in positions along the stone fences of the
                Hagerstown road and behind the ridge running from the road to and
                beyond Piper's barn; G.T. Anderson's brigade only preserved its
                organization."

                Larry F.



                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Dear Dean,
                >
                > No, I do not have "Unfurl Those Colors". What does Vince
                > Armstrong mention about French's attack and any possible
                > secondary line in the Piper fields of Confederates?
                >
                > Murfin originally published his book in 1965.
                >
                > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                >
                > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                > from
                > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "Dean Essig" <d.essig@...>
                > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 8:52 AM
                > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Murfin and description of Sunken
                > Road fight
                >
                >
                > > Gerry,
                > >
                > > Do you have Unfurl those Colors? Mine isn't handy at the
                > > moment, but
                > > he goes into great detail about the ins and outs of the 2nd
                > > Corps
                > > attack and what it came up against.
                > >
                > > Remember that at the moment French struck, part of Rodes'
                > > Brigade had
                > > advanced forward of the Sunken Road in an action to seize the
                > > terrain
                > > about 100 yards in front. Murfin may be describing the firing
                > > of the
                > > men in the Sunken Road over the heads of those who did
                > > advance
                > > as
                > > they were coming back.
                > >
                > > Dean
                > >
                >
              • eighth_conn_inf
                Gerry, I haven t found anything about a second Confederate line to the rear of the sunken road so it is curious that Murfin makes a small point about this on
                Message 7 of 18 , Jun 22, 2009
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                  Gerry,

                  I haven't found anything about a second Confederate line to the rear of the sunken road so it is curious that Murfin makes a small point about this on p. 250: "It was the cornfield all over again. The first line halted, re-formed and moved again. And again they were stopped. Across the road, in the Piper fields, Rebel infantry fired over the heads of their comrades direct into the faces of the enemy." CC does show the Piper cornfield right up to the sunken road but the first sentence here I believe refers to the fighting in the Cornfield earlier in the day. From the material quoted below, there definitely war firing by Rebels in the Piper cornfield before the retreat from the lane but unless more evidence turns up, perhaps it was only as Confederate units were coming up or maybe some few men wanted a better vantage point to shoot Yankees.

                  Carman describes the Piper cornfield on p. 278: "Behind Anderson's entire line and extending to the left, to the center of Rodes's
                  Brigade, was a field of dense corn. In many places in rear this ground was much higher than the sunken road and looked directly down into it. The road was a natural rifle-pit." Also on p. 295: "The cornfield ran east and west for 560 yards along the south of the sunken road, and from north to south had an average
                  depth of 210 yards, being deepest in front of the apple orchard, which lay beyond its western end."

                  On p. 287 perhaps another opportunity for over head firing: "Colonel
                  Coppens of the 8th Florida was killed and, immediately after, Captain Richard A. Waller, who succeeded him in command, fell dead with the colors of the regiment draped over his shoulders. Every regiment suffered great loss. Passing through the cornfield the left of the brigade came up in rear of the right wing of the 14th North Carolina, the right extending beyond the 4th North Carolina."

                  Also on p. 291: " Gibson's withdrawal was followed by that of Wilcox's Brigade. This brigade, as we have seen, had been sent to the ridge south of the Piper house. After observing the advance of Pleasonton's cavalry from the Middle Bridge to the ridge midway to the Antietam, and that it stopped there, the brigade recrossed the Hagerstown Road, then again crossed it east (north of the Piper lane), moved northeast through the orchard to the northeast corner of the cornfield, and became heavily engaged on Pryor's right —but the entire brigade did not succeed in reaching the sunken road. It lost heavily in its advance and when reaching position was confronted by "a heavy compact line of infantry about 120 yards in front," and a battery of artillery on its right flank "shelled it with terrible accuracy."50 It remained until Pryor and Featherston gave way, when it retreated in some disorder, every man for himself, and rallied in the low ground south of the corn near the Piper lane and a few yards east of the lower part of the orchard. A few men remained in the sunken road and were captured."

                  When Wright's Brigade came up from the Piper Farm earlier in the day and advanced thru the cornfield to the sunken road, Carman states: "As soon as the fence was torn down sufficiently to admit passage in place, the brigade moved through the orchard
                  obliquely toward the northeast corner of the cornfield, all the time under artillery fire, and when it reached the high ground
                  in the cornfield came under musketry fire and men fell by the score. While going through the orchard Wright's horse was
                  torn in pieces by a shell and the general thrown to the ground. Disengaging himself from the fallen horse he led his brigade
                  through the cornfield, and as he approached the sunken road his left came up in rear of the right wing of the 30th North
                  Carolina, receiving such a severe and unexpected fire as it emerged from the corn that it was driven back, but soon rallied
                  and took ground to the right. Wright was shot down and Colonel Robert H. Jones of the 22d Georgia (who succeeded to the command) was wounded and disabled by a musket ball that went through his breast. The brigade, reduced to about 250 men, reached the sunken road on G. B. Anderson's right and lay down in it, and Colonel William Gibson of the 48th Georgia assumed command."

                  Murfin also briefly talks about Anderson's advance but does so immediately after his "over the heads" quote.

                  Any other sources? From what I've found so far, there was no organized Rebel line just south of the sunken road early in the fight. But as the ground at the north end of the cornfield was higher than the sunken road, maybe some troops took positions there to take advantage of that elevation? Armstrong on p. 224 states: "Among the factors contributing to the abandonment of the charge by the 69th New York was the fact that the 29th Massachusetts on its left did not move forward with it. Osborne recalled that while the 69th and the 63rd New York on the flanks of the 29th were suffering greatly from the fire coming from the sunken road, the 29th itself 'was protected by a little ridge in its front and a slight depression of the ground upon which it stood.' This singular topographical feature not only shielded the New Englanders from the fire coming from the sunken raod, but it gave them a clear shot awith their longer range Springfield and Enfield rifed muskets over the line in the road at the enemy in the cornfield beyond, the shots of the 29th 'cutting off the stalks of green corn as would a scyth, and having their effect upon the enemy who were hiding there.'"

                  Looks like Carman stated something similar on p. 286: "We have stated that the 29th Massachusetts covered a depression in the ridge between the 69th and 63d New York. It had been under heavy infantry and artillery fire in its advance, which it returned, but on reaching its position about one hundred yards from the road ceased firing, for it could not see the enemy in the road nor could the enemy see it, as it was in the depression between the higher ground on its right and left, and the ridge along the sunken road completely sheltered it.
                  But it had a good range upon the cornfield in rear of the road, which was on higher ground opening wide before it, its shots cutting down the stalks of green corn as would a scythe and having their effect upon the enemy who were hiding there or who came up as supports to those in the road. From these it received a severe fire."

                  And on p. 281: "On the right of the 14th Connecticut, on high ground, well protected by the fences of the Mumma lane and the outcropping rocks, was the detachment of the 1st Delaware, and 280 yards to the right and rear was Tompkins's battery, which poured a constant fire of shell and case shot upon the Confederates in the sunken road and in the cornfield beyond it."

                  Larry F.

                  --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Larry;
                  >
                  > What Murfin is saying in his book appears to be about when the
                  > initial Federal attacks occurred...not later.
                  >
                  > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                  >
                  > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                  > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                  > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                  > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                  > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:19 AM
                  > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Murfin and description of Sunken
                  > Road fight
                  >
                  >
                  > Gerry,
                  >
                  > Carman (Pierro p. 294) states:
                  >
                  > "The Confederate line went back from the sunken road in some
                  > confusion, and when Caldwell followed into the corn
                  > the confusion was increased and disorder reigned supreme. Brigade
                  > and regimental commanders undertook to rally their
                  > broken commands but found it impossible to do so, and the greater
                  > part of Hill's and Anderson's Divisions fell back to the
                  > Piper buildings and under cover of the ridge running from the
                  > barn to the Hagerstown
                  > Road; some were rallied behind
                  > the stone fences of the road, and all this at the time Longstreet
                  > was counting on their holding the sunken road and cooperating
                  > in the attack upon Kimball's flank by a united movement on
                  > Richardson's front and flank. Cooke and Cobb had
                  > moved promptly and been repulsed, but when the time came for the
                  > assistance of Hill's and Anderson's Divisions they had
                  > been driven from the sunken road and were in disorder. After
                  > great effort parts of each division were rallied and charged
                  > northeast through the orchard and corn to attack Richardson's
                  > left, Miller's Battery (with a small infantry support) being
                  > left in the orchard to hold the right and center in check. It is
                  > impossible to say with any degree of certainty how the brigades
                  > were formed in line. There is a general agreement that regiments
                  > and brigades were intermingled one with another and
                  > considerably disorganized and demoralized by the loss of an
                  > unusually large number of officers and many of the men. In a
                  > general sense D. H. Hill's Division was on the left, but when the
                  > charge had reached its limit some of his men were on the
                  > extreme right of R. H. Anderson's."
                  >
                  > Armstrong on p. 238, map 24, 12:15 PM, shows four Rebel regiments
                  > from left to right: 12 AL, 5 FL, 9 AL, and 4 NC. He discusses
                  > mainly Union activities not much about Confederate.
                  >
                  > CC map for Noon to 12:15 PM is less definitive than Armstrong's;
                  > the two regiments on either side of Miller's battery facing the
                  > Union advance are not labeled. Margin notes on the CC map for 1
                  > PM echo Carman: "At 1 P.M., Anderson's and D.H. Hill's divisions
                  > had lost all organization, regiments and brigades being broken up
                  > and intermingled and in positions along the stone fences of the
                  > Hagerstown road and behind the ridge running from the road to and
                  > beyond Piper's barn; G.T. Anderson's brigade only preserved its
                  > organization."
                  >
                  > Larry F.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Dear Dean,
                  > >
                  > > No, I do not have "Unfurl Those Colors". What does Vince
                  > > Armstrong mention about French's attack and any possible
                  > > secondary line in the Piper fields of Confederates?
                  > >
                  > > Murfin originally published his book in 1965.
                  > >
                  > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                  > >
                  > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                  > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                  > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                  > > from
                  > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: "Dean Essig" <d.essig@>
                  > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 8:52 AM
                  > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Murfin and description of Sunken
                  > > Road fight
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > > Gerry,
                  > > >
                  > > > Do you have Unfurl those Colors? Mine isn't handy at the
                  > > > moment, but
                  > > > he goes into great detail about the ins and outs of the 2nd
                  > > > Corps
                  > > > attack and what it came up against.
                  > > >
                  > > > Remember that at the moment French struck, part of Rodes'
                  > > > Brigade had
                  > > > advanced forward of the Sunken Road in an action to seize the
                  > > > terrain
                  > > > about 100 yards in front. Murfin may be describing the firing
                  > > > of the
                  > > > men in the Sunken Road over the heads of those who did
                  > > > advance
                  > > > as
                  > > > they were coming back.
                  > > >
                  > > > Dean
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • G E Mayers
                  Dear Larry; I think what Murfin is trying to say is the fight in the Sunken Road developed into much the same type of slugfest as had happened in The Cornfield
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jun 22, 2009
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                    Dear Larry;

                    I think what Murfin is trying to say is the fight in the Sunken
                    Road developed into much the same type of slugfest as had
                    happened in The Cornfield before.

                    I will read your response more fully and comment at another time.

                    Also, please try to snip your email responses. Thanks!

                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                    To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                    on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                    Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                    the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                  • mchardy@michaelchardy.com
                    Larry and Gerry – there was a second Confederate line for a brief amount of time behind the Sunken Road.  This line was composed of Pryor’s brigade, under
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jun 23, 2009
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                      Larry and Gerry – there was a second Confederate line for a brief amount of time behind the Sunken Road.  This line was composed of Pryor’s brigade, under the command Col. John C. Hately of the 5th Florida.  The brigade advanced past the Piper orchard and the Federals, not being able to hit much in the lane, turned their fire (infantry and artillery) upon them. At least one point the brigade stopped in the cornfield, probably leading some to write of a second line.  Some members of Pryor’s brigade stopped behind the sunken road, some jumped into the road and intermingled with the Confederate troops there, and some pushed ahead past the road, only to be beaten back. Featherston’s brigade came in next.  Soon thereafter, the Confederate line collapsed. The loses of one of Pryor’s regiments, the 8th Florida, is estimated at fifty-seven percent.
                       
                      Your “Colonel Coppens” is Lt. Col. Georges Augustus Gaston de Coppens, who just that morning had turned over the command of his battalion of Louisiana Zouaves to command the Floridians.
                       
                      Regards,
                      Michael C. Hardy
                      www.michaelchardy.com

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • G E Mayers
                      Dear Michael, Thank you for that post; it was very helpful. Was not Coppens mortally wounded or killed at the Sunken Road? Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jun 23, 2009
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                        Dear Michael,

                        Thank you for that post; it was very helpful.

                        Was not Coppens mortally wounded or killed at the Sunken Road?

                        Yr. Obt. Svt.
                        G E "Gerry" Mayers

                        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                        on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                        Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                        the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: <mchardy@...>
                        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:23 AM
                        Subject: [TalkAntietam] re Murfin and description of Sunken Road
                        fight


                        Larry and Gerry – there was a second Confederate line for a brief
                        amount of time behind the Sunken Road. This line was composed of
                        Pryor’s brigade, under the command Col. John C. Hately of the 5th
                        Florida. The brigade advanced past the Piper orchard and the
                        Federals, not being able to hit much in the lane, turned their
                        fire (infantry and artillery) upon them. At least one point the
                        brigade stopped in the cornfield, probably leading some to write
                        of a second line. Some members of Pryor’s brigade stopped behind
                        the sunken road, some jumped into the road and intermingled with
                        the Confederate troops there, and some pushed ahead past the
                        road, only to be beaten back. Featherston’s brigade came in next.
                        Soon thereafter, the Confederate line collapsed. The loses of one
                        of Pryor’s regiments, the 8th Florida, is estimated at
                        fifty-seven percent.

                        Your “Colonel Coppens” is Lt. Col. Georges Augustus Gaston de
                        Coppens, who just that morning had turned over the command of his
                        battalion of Louisiana Zouaves to command the Floridians.

                        Regards,
                        Michael C. Hardy
                        www.michaelchardy.com

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Michael Peters
                        Gerry,   Believe that Coppens was killed along the Hagerstown Pike.   Mike Peters ... From: G E Mayers Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jul 17, 2009
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                          Gerry,
                           
                          Believe that Coppens was killed along the Hagerstown Pike.
                           
                          Mike Peters

                          --- On Tue, 6/23/09, G E Mayers <gerry1952@...> wrote:


                          From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Murfin and description of Sunken Road fight
                          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:55 AM


                          Dear Michael,

                          Thank you for that post; it was very helpful.

                          Was not Coppens mortally wounded or killed at the Sunken Road?

                          Yr. Obt. Svt.
                          G E "Gerry" Mayers






                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • G E Mayers
                          Thanks! Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one s mother s side, is an introduction to any
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jul 19, 2009
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                            Thanks!

                            Yr. Obt. Svt.
                            G E "Gerry" Mayers

                            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                            on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                            Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                            the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Michael Peters" <colliszouave@...>
                            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 12:20 AM
                            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Murfin and description of Sunken
                            Road fight


                            Gerry,

                            Believe that Coppens was killed along the Hagerstown Pike.

                            Mike Peters

                            --- On Tue, 6/23/09, G E Mayers <gerry1952@...> wrote:


                            From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Murfin and description of Sunken
                            Road fight
                            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:55 AM


                            Dear Michael,

                            Thank you for that post; it was very helpful.

                            Was not Coppens mortally wounded or killed at the Sunken Road?

                            Yr. Obt. Svt.
                            G E "Gerry" Mayers






                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • bdowney@aotw.org
                            One more perspective on this: Col. Coppen [sic] was killed almost immediately after getting fire, in the cornfield below the stone barn near bloody lane!
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jul 19, 2009
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                              One more perspective on this:

                              "Col. Coppen [sic] was killed almost immediately after getting fire, in
                              the cornfield below the stone barn near bloody lane! Capt. Richard A.
                              Waller then assumed command [of 8th Florida Inf] as senior Capt. and was
                              also killed with the colors of the regiment draped over his shoulders,
                              almost immediately afterward, the flagstaff having been shot in two, &
                              the color bearer and color guard beig [sic] all either killed or
                              wounded"...
                              - postwar letter of former Capt (later Colonel) David Lang, 8th
                              Florida, to E. A. Carman, Antietam Battlefield Commission. Transcribed
                              by Mr. Studnicki at Civil War Florida
                              (http://www.civilwarflorida.com/site/sources/letters/show_letter.php?letterREF=2).


                              > -------- Original Message --------
                              > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Murfin and description of Sunken Road
                              > fight
                              > From: "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
                              > Date: Sun, July 19, 2009 8:08 pm
                              > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                              >
                              >
                              > Thanks!
                              >
                              > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                              > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                              >
                              > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                              > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                              > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                              > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: "Michael Peters" <colliszouave@...>
                              > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                              > Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 12:20 AM
                              > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Murfin and description of Sunken
                              > Road fight
                              >
                              >
                              > Gerry,
                              >
                              > Believe that Coppens was killed along the Hagerstown Pike.
                              >
                              > Mike Peters
                              >
                              > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, G E Mayers <gerry1952@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                              > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Murfin and description of Sunken
                              > Road fight
                              > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                              > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:55 AM
                              >
                              >
                              > Dear Michael,
                              >
                              > Thank you for that post; it was very helpful.
                              >
                              > Was not Coppens mortally wounded or killed at the Sunken Road?
                              >
                              > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                              > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • G E Mayers
                              Brian, So Coppens unit or brigade was part of the overall Sunken Road fight? Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage,
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jul 19, 2009
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                                Brian,

                                So Coppens' unit or brigade was part of the overall Sunken Road
                                fight?

                                Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                                on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                                Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                                the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: <bdowney@...>
                                To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 8:41 PM
                                Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] re Murfin and description of Sunken
                                Road fight



                                One more perspective on this:

                                "Col. Coppen [sic] was killed almost immediately after getting
                                fire, in
                                the cornfield below the stone barn near bloody lane! Capt.
                                Richard A.
                                Waller then assumed command [of 8th Florida Inf] as senior Capt.
                                and was
                                also killed with the colors of the regiment draped over his
                                shoulders,
                                almost immediately afterward, the flagstaff having been shot in
                                two, &
                                the color bearer and color guard beig [sic] all either killed or
                                wounded"...
                                - postwar letter of former Capt (later Colonel) David Lang, 8th
                                Florida, to E. A. Carman, Antietam Battlefield Commission.
                                Transcribed
                                by Mr. Studnicki at Civil War Florida
                                (http://www.civilwarflorida.com/site/sources/letters/show_letter.php?letterREF=2).


                                > -------- Original Message --------
                                > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Murfin and description of Sunken
                                > Road
                                > fight
                                > From: "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
                                > Date: Sun, July 19, 2009 8:08 pm
                                > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                >
                                >
                                > Thanks!
                                >
                                > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                >
                                > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                                > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                                > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                                > from
                                > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: "Michael Peters" <colliszouave@...>
                                > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                > Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 12:20 AM
                                > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Murfin and description of Sunken
                                > Road fight
                                >
                                >
                                > Gerry,
                                >
                                > Believe that Coppens was killed along the Hagerstown Pike.
                                >
                                > Mike Peters
                                >
                                > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, G E Mayers <gerry1952@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                                > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Murfin and description of Sunken
                                > Road fight
                                > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                > Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:55 AM
                                >
                                >
                                > Dear Michael,
                                >
                                > Thank you for that post; it was very helpful.
                                >
                                > Was not Coppens mortally wounded or killed at the Sunken Road?
                                >
                                > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Brian Downey
                                Yes. Georges Augustus Gaston De Coppens was in command of the 8th Florida, in Pryor s Brigade of Anderson s Division. He had been appointed to that Regiment
                                Message 15 of 18 , Jul 19, 2009
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                                  Yes. Georges Augustus Gaston De Coppens was in command of the 8th Florida, in Pryor's Brigade of Anderson's Division. He had been appointed to that Regiment from his own - the 1st Louisiana (Zouaves) Infantry Battalion - by Genl Pryor immediately before the battle due to a lack of field officers present with the 8th FL.

                                  The 8th FL advanced through Piper's orchard and cornfield toward the Sunken Road. Coppens looks to have been killed on that route.

                                  His Louisiana Zouaves were under command of his brother Marie Alfred Coppens at Sharpsburg. They fought in Starke's Brigade along the Hagerstown Pike at the Miller Cornfield that morning.

                                  --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Brian,
                                  >
                                  > So Coppens' unit or brigade was part of the overall Sunken Road
                                  > fight?
                                  >
                                  > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                  > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                  >
                                • G E Mayers
                                  Larry; What do the maps in the Armstrong s book about the Second Corps show for earlier in the Sunken Road action? Especially positions of the regiments in G B
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Oct 3, 2009
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                                    Larry;

                                    What do the maps in the Armstrong's book about the Second Corps
                                    show for earlier in the Sunken Road action? Especially positions
                                    of the regiments in G B Anderson's brigade?

                                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                    To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                                    on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                                    Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                                    the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                                  • Thomas Clemens
                                    G.B. Anderson s brigade was astride the Boonsboro Pike in the low ground between the ridge facing the bridge and Cemetery hill. He had skirmishers out on the
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Oct 4, 2009
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                                      G.B. Anderson's brigade was astride the Boonsboro Pike in the low ground between the ridge facing the bridge and Cemetery hill. He had skirmishers out on the crest of the ridge watching Middle Bridge. They moved to their left a bit to use the ravine for shelter from artillery, but didn't join Rodes' brigade in the lane until shortly before French's atack.


                                      Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                                      Professor of History
                                      Hagerstown Community College


                                      >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> 10/03/09 9:25 PM >>>
                                      Larry;

                                      What do the maps in the Armstrong's book about the Second Corps
                                      show for earlier in the Sunken Road action? Especially positions
                                      of the regiments in G B Anderson's brigade?

                                      Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                      G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                                      on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                                      Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                                      the Almighty God. --Anonymous
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