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Re: CC Map Question

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  • eighth_conn_inf
    Tom, I also am interested in the changes as well as a set of the 1908 maps. The best for them would be full size on sturdy, laminated paper, obviously clearly
    Message 1 of 24 , May 24 7:09 PM
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      Tom,

      I also am interested in the changes as well as a set of the 1908 maps. The best for them would be full size on sturdy, laminated paper, obviously clearly printed in non fading ink as discussed below.

      If you think this is possible, you could PM me with an estimated cost just in case I don't win the lottery.

      TR, it would be interesting to see the 3rd PR book's map.

      Larry

      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, T.R.Livesey <tlivesey@...> wrote:
      >
      > Tom,
      >
      > I'd be interested in the list of changes.
      >
      > T.R. Livesey
      > tlivesey@...
      >
      >
      >
      > On Sun 05/24/09 5:11 PM , "Thomas Clemens" clemenst@... sent:
      > > Somewhere in the papers from Carman I found a listing of the changes.
      > > Will see if I can find it for you. We have 8 x10 color negatives of
      > > the1908 maps. Maybe I should look into printing them poster-size?
      > >
      > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
      > > Professor of History
      > > Hagerstown Community College
      > >
      > >
      > > >>> T.R.Livesey 05/24/09 3:08 PM
      > > >>>Larry,
      > >
      > > I have never had access to a 1908 version to compare. My guess is that
      > > the
      > > differences between the 2 are minor. A hint of possible changes can be
      > > extracted
      > > from 1906 correspondence from Carman reprinted in the commemorative
      > > volume of the
      > > Pennsylvania Reserves (pp 95-8). There is a dispute between the
      > > AntietamBattlefield Commission of Pennsylvania and Carman about the proposed
      > > placement of
      > > the monuments for the 8th, 7th, 4th, and 3rd PR: they want the order to
      > > be 8th
      > > 7th 4th and 3rd, whereas Carman's map shows 8th 3rd 4th 7th. After
      > > making his
      > > case, Carman laments : ”It is unfortunate that this matter was
      > > notdiscussed
      > > earlier. My atlas has been published two years, and a copy sent to each
      > > regimental organization with the request that any apparent errors might
      > > be
      > > reported, but not a criticism has been made of any position of the
      > > FirstCorps,
      > > and but one or two trifling ones in other corps.” I don't know if
      > > the1908
      > > edition was altered to reflect the commission's version. The monuments
      > > were
      > > placed as per Carman's recommendation. Whatever the case, as late as
      > > 1906, Carman
      > > was unaware of 'non-trifling' discrepancies of the 1904 version.
      > >
      > > BTW, the fold-out map that accompanies the PR volume is a real gem: a
      > > beautiful
      > > depiction of the battlefield at the turn of the century (before the
      > > various
      > > bypasses were built) in color and wonderful topographical detail (20 ft
      > > interval
      > > contour lines). One of the nicest maps out there.
      > >
      > > T.R. Livesey
      > > tlivesey@...
      >
      > >
      >
    • T.R.Livesey
      http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=125511040&searchurl=sts%3Dt%26tn%3Dpennsylvania%2Breserves%2Bat%2Bantietam%26x%3D0%26y%3D0 T.R. Livesey
      Message 2 of 24 , May 24 8:51 PM
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        http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=125511040&searchurl=sts%3Dt%26tn%3Dpennsylvania%2Breserves%2Bat%2Bantietam%26x%3D0%26y%3D0

        T.R. Livesey
        tlivesey@...

        On Sun 05/24/09 9:09 PM , "eighth_conn_inf" eighth_conn_inf@... sent:

        > TR, it would be interesting to see the 3rd PR book's map.
        >
        > Larry
        >
        > --- In
        > TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, T.R.Livesey
        > wrote:>
      • Thomas Clemens
        OK, but it won t be anytime soon. I am rushing to finish some other stuff and go out of town for a week. Thomas G. Clemens D.A. Professor of History
        Message 3 of 24 , May 25 7:07 AM
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          OK, but it won't be anytime soon. I am rushing to finish some other
          stuff and go out of town for a week.

          Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
          Professor of History
          Hagerstown Community College


          >>> "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...> 05/24/09 10:09 PM >>>
          Tom,

          I also am interested in the changes as well as a set of the 1908 maps.
          The best for them would be full size on sturdy, laminated paper,
          obviously clearly printed in non fading ink as discussed below.

          If you think this is possible, you could PM me with an estimated cost
          just in case I don't win the lottery.

          TR, it would be interesting to see the 3rd PR book's map.

          Larry

          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, T.R.Livesey <tlivesey@...> wrote:
          >
          > Tom,
          >
          > I'd be interested in the list of changes.
          >
          > T.R. Livesey
          > tlivesey@...
          >
          >
          >
          > On Sun 05/24/09 5:11 PM , "Thomas Clemens" clemenst@... sent:
          > > Somewhere in the papers from Carman I found a listing of the
          changes.
          > > Will see if I can find it for you. We have 8 x10 color negatives of
          > > the1908 maps. Maybe I should look into printing them poster-size?
          > >
          > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
          > > Professor of History
          > > Hagerstown Community College
          > >
          > >
          > > >>> T.R.Livesey 05/24/09 3:08 PM
          > > >>>Larry,
          > >
          > > I have never had access to a 1908 version to compare. My guess is
          that
          > > the
          > > differences between the 2 are minor. A hint of possible changes can
          be
          > > extracted
          > > from 1906 correspondence from Carman reprinted in the commemorative
          > > volume of the
          > > Pennsylvania Reserves (pp 95-8). There is a dispute between the
          > > AntietamBattlefield Commission of Pennsylvania and Carman about the
          proposed
          > > placement of
          > > the monuments for the 8th, 7th, 4th, and 3rd PR: they want the order
          to
          > > be 8th
          > > 7th 4th and 3rd, whereas Carman's map shows 8th 3rd 4th 7th. After
          > > making his
          > > case, Carman laments : †It is unfortunate that this matter was
          > > notdiscussed
          > > earlier. My atlas has been published two years, and a copy sent to
          each
          > > regimental organization with the request that any apparent errors
          might
          > > be
          > > reported, but not a criticism has been made of any position of the
          > > FirstCorps,
          > > and but one or two trifling ones in other corps.†I don't know if
          > > the1908
          > > edition was altered to reflect the commission's version. The
          monuments
          > > were
          > > placed as per Carman's recommendation. Whatever the case, as late as
          > > 1906, Carman
          > > was unaware of 'non-trifling' discrepancies of the 1904 version.
          > >
          > > BTW, the fold-out map that accompanies the PR volume is a real gem:
          a
          > > beautiful
          > > depiction of the battlefield at the turn of the century (before the
          > > various
          > > bypasses were built) in color and wonderful topographical detail (20
          ft
          > > interval
          > > contour lines). One of the nicest maps out there.
          > >
          > > T.R. Livesey
          > > tlivesey@...
          >
          > >
          >
        • Larry Freiheit
          No rush, thx Tom. ... From: Thomas Clemens Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CC Map Question To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com Date:
          Message 4 of 24 , May 25 11:19 AM
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            No rush, thx Tom.

            --- On Mon, 5/25/09, Thomas Clemens <clemenst@...> wrote:


            From: Thomas Clemens <clemenst@...>
            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CC Map Question
            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Monday, May 25, 2009, 10:07 AM








            OK, but it won't be anytime soon. I am rushing to finish some other
            stuff and go out of town for a week.

            Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
            Professor of History
            Hagerstown Community College

            >>> "eighth_conn_ inf" <eighth_conn_ inf@yahoo. com> 05/24/09 10:09 PM >>>
            Tom,

            I also am interested in the changes as well as a set of the 1908 maps.
            The best for them would be full size on sturdy, laminated paper,
            obviously clearly printed in non fading ink as discussed below.

            If you think this is possible, you could PM me with an estimated cost
            just in case I don't win the lottery.

            TR, it would be interesting to see the 3rd PR book's map.

            Larry

            --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, T.R.Livesey <tlivesey@.. .> wrote:
            >
            > Tom,
            >
            > I'd be interested in the list of changes.
            >
            > T.R. Livesey
            > tlivesey@...
            >
            >
            >
            > On Sun 05/24/09 5:11 PM , "Thomas Clemens" clemenst@... sent:
            > > Somewhere in the papers from Carman I found a listing of the
            changes.
            > > Will see if I can find it for you. We have 8 x10 color negatives of
            > > the1908 maps. Maybe I should look into printing them poster-size?
            > >
            > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
            > > Professor of History
            > > Hagerstown Community College
            > >
            > >
            > > >>> T.R.Livesey 05/24/09 3:08 PM
            > > >>>Larry,
            > >
            > > I have never had access to a 1908 version to compare. My guess is
            that
            > > the
            > > differences between the 2 are minor. A hint of possible changes can
            be
            > > extracted
            > > from 1906 correspondence from Carman reprinted in the commemorative
            > > volume of the
            > > Pennsylvania Reserves (pp 95-8). There is a dispute between the
            > > AntietamBattlefield Commission of Pennsylvania and Carman about the
            proposed
            > > placement of
            > > the monuments for the 8th, 7th, 4th, and 3rd PR: they want the order
            to
            > > be 8th
            > > 7th 4th and 3rd, whereas Carman's map shows 8th 3rd 4th 7th. After
            > > making his
            > > case, Carman laments : †It is unfortunate that this matter was
            > > notdiscussed
            > > earlier. My atlas has been published two years, and a copy sent to
            each
            > > regimental organization with the request that any apparent errors
            might
            > > be
            > > reported, but not a criticism has been made of any position of the
            > > FirstCorps,
            > > and but one or two trifling ones in other corps.†I don't know if
            > > the1908
            > > edition was altered to reflect the commission's version. The
            monuments
            > > were
            > > placed as per Carman's recommendation. Whatever the case, as late as
            > > 1906, Carman
            > > was unaware of 'non-trifling' discrepancies of the 1904 version.
            > >
            > > BTW, the fold-out map that accompanies the PR volume is a real gem:
            a
            > > beautiful
            > > depiction of the battlefield at the turn of the century (before the
            > > various
            > > bypasses were built) in color and wonderful topographical detail (20
            ft
            > > interval
            > > contour lines). One of the nicest maps out there.
            > >
            > > T.R. Livesey
            > > tlivesey@...
            >
            > >
            >



















            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • G E Mayers
            Dear Tom, What would such a project cost? Would it be something SHAF could offer at a discount to members? Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian,
            Message 5 of 24 , May 25 2:22 PM
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              Dear Tom,

              What would such a project cost? Would it be something SHAF could
              offer at a discount to members?

              Yr. Obt. Svt.
              G E "Gerry" Mayers

              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
              on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
              Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
              the Almighty God. --Anonymous
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 6:11 PM
              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CC Map Question


              > Somewhere in the papers from Carman I found a listing of the
              > changes.
              > Will see if I can find it for you. We have 8 x10 color
              > negatives of the
              > 1908 maps. Maybe I should look into printing them poster-size?
              >
              > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
              > Professor of History
              > Hagerstown Community College
              >
              >
              >>>> T.R.Livesey <tlivesey@...> 05/24/09 3:08
              >>>> PM >>>
              > Larry,
              >
              > I have never had access to a 1908 version to compare. My guess
              > is that
              > the
              > differences between the 2 are minor. A hint of possible changes
              > can be
              > extracted
              > from 1906 correspondence from Carman reprinted in the
              > commemorative
              > volume of the
              > Pennsylvania Reserves (pp 95-8). There is a dispute between the
              > Antietam
              > Battlefield Commission of Pennsylvania and Carman about the
              > proposed
              > placement of
              > the monuments for the 8th, 7th, 4th, and 3rd PR: they want the
              > order to
              > be 8th
              > 7th 4th and 3rd, whereas Carman's map shows 8th 3rd 4th 7th.
              > After
              > making his
              > case, Carman laments : ”It is unfortunate that this matter was
              > not
              > discussed
              > earlier. My atlas has been published two years, and a copy sent
              > to each
              > regimental organization with the request that any apparent
              > errors might
              > be
              > reported, but not a criticism has been made of any position of
              > the First
              > Corps,
              > and but one or two trifling ones in other corps.” I don't know
              > if the
              > 1908
              > edition was altered to reflect the commission's version. The
              > monuments
              > were
              > placed as per Carman's recommendation. Whatever the case, as
              > late as
              > 1906, Carman
              > was unaware of 'non-trifling' discrepancies of the 1904
              > version.
              >
              > BTW, the fold-out map that accompanies the PR volume is a real
              > gem: a
              > beautiful
              > depiction of the battlefield at the turn of the century (before
              > the
              > various
              > bypasses were built) in color and wonderful topographical
              > detail (20 ft
              > interval
              > contour lines). One of the nicest maps out there.
              >
              > T.R. Livesey
              > tlivesey@...
              >
              > On Sun 05/24/09 12:51 PM , "eighth_conn_inf"
              > eighth_conn_inf@...
              > sent:
              >> TR,
              >>
              >> I looked at some of your flybys and they are interesting;
              >> thanks for
              >> sharing them. I will be instructive to see what Stephen comes
              >> up with
              > for
              >> Virtual Antietam.
              >> I've never heard that anyone owns the 1908 CC version let
              >> alone
              > listing the
              >> differences between the two. Maybe Tom Clemens who is writing
              >> about
              > Carman
              >> may have that version copied or at least talk about the
              >> differences. I
              >> recall someone--Jake Pierro--mentioned that the LOC has both
              >> 1904 and
              > 1908
              >> versions but only has the 1904 on its website.
              >> Someday someone may have a good printing done of the the 1908
              >> version
              > and
              >> maybe even some done of some of the original prints of the OR
              >> maps but
              > my
              >> guess is neither is likely to happen unless CWPT or some
              >> wealthy CW
              > fan
              >> ponies up the required funds since neither will be best
              >> sellers.
              >> Larry
              >>
              >>
              >
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              >
            • Dave
              Gerry, I think one could compare a high-quality printing run with Morningside s printing of the Bachelder maps. They printed them years ago, and the set of
              Message 6 of 24 , May 29 2:56 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                Gerry,

                I think one could compare a high-quality printing run with Morningside's
                printing of the Bachelder maps. They printed them years ago, and the
                set of 28 (37 x 27) run $250. They've been that price for many years,
                and I think that's a very fair price. I don't have them, but I've seen
                them, and they are the quality we would like to see in the CC maps (much
                better than the one in the museum). If someone was willing to have them
                printed, I would make sure that they had the money in hand from those
                interested before starting out. My feeling is that $20-$25 for each map
                would be a good price, but that's still a lot of money for most folks
                and I don't believe it could be done that cheaply in any event. Maybe
                we can turn this in as a Stimulus package request.

                Dave McGowan

                G E Mayers wrote:
                >
                >
                > Dear Tom,
                >
                > What would such a project cost? Would it be something SHAF could
                > offer at a discount to members?
                >
                > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                >
                > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...
                > <mailto:clemenst%40hagerstowncc.edu>>
                > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>>
                > Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 6:11 PM
                > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CC Map Question
                >
                > > Somewhere in the papers from Carman I found a listing of the
                > > changes.
                > > Will see if I can find it for you. We have 8 x10 color
                > > negatives of the
                > > 1908 maps. Maybe I should look into printing them poster-size?
                > >
                > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                > > Professor of History
                > > Hagerstown Community College
                > >
                > >
                > >>>> T.R.Livesey <tlivesey@...
                > <mailto:tlivesey%40westwoodgalleries.com>> 05/24/09 3:08
                > >>>> PM >>>
                > > Larry,
                > >
                > > I have never had access to a 1908 version to compare. My guess
                > > is that
                > > the
                > > differences between the 2 are minor. A hint of possible changes
                > > can be
                > > extracted
                > > from 1906 correspondence from Carman reprinted in the
                > > commemorative
                > > volume of the
                > > Pennsylvania Reserves (pp 95-8). There is a dispute between the
                > > Antietam
                > > Battlefield Commission of Pennsylvania and Carman about the
                > > proposed
                > > placement of
                > > the monuments for the 8th, 7th, 4th, and 3rd PR: they want the
                > > order to
                > > be 8th
                > > 7th 4th and 3rd, whereas Carman's map shows 8th 3rd 4th 7th.
                > > After
                > > making his
                > > case, Carman laments : ”It is unfortunate that this matter was
                > > not
                > > discussed
                > > earlier. My atlas has been published two years, and a copy sent
                > > to each
                > > regimental organization with the request that any apparent
                > > errors might
                > > be
                > > reported, but not a criticism has been made of any position of
                > > the First
                > > Corps,
                > > and but one or two trifling ones in other corps.” I don't know
                > > if the
                > > 1908
                > > edition was altered to reflect the commission's version. The
                > > monuments
                > > were
                > > placed as per Carman's recommendation. Whatever the case, as
                > > late as
                > > 1906, Carman
                > > was unaware of 'non-trifling' discrepancies of the 1904
                > > version.
                > >
                > > BTW, the fold-out map that accompanies the PR volume is a real
                > > gem: a
                > > beautiful
                > > depiction of the battlefield at the turn of the century (before
                > > the
                > > various
                > > bypasses were built) in color and wonderful topographical
                > > detail (20 ft
                > > interval
                > > contour lines). One of the nicest maps out there.
                > >
                > > T.R. Livesey
                > > tlivesey@... <mailto:tlivesey%40westwoodgalleries.com>
                > >
                > > On Sun 05/24/09 12:51 PM , "eighth_conn_inf"
                > > eighth_conn_inf@... <mailto:eighth_conn_inf%40yahoo.com>
                > > sent:
                > >> TR,
                > >>
                > >> I looked at some of your flybys and they are interesting;
                > >> thanks for
                > >> sharing them. I will be instructive to see what Stephen comes
                > >> up with
                > > for
                > >> Virtual Antietam.
                > >> I've never heard that anyone owns the 1908 CC version let
                > >> alone
                > > listing the
                > >> differences between the two. Maybe Tom Clemens who is writing
                > >> about
                > > Carman
                > >> may have that version copied or at least talk about the
                > >> differences. I
                > >> recall someone--Jake Pierro--mentioned that the LOC has both
                > >> 1904 and
                > > 1908
                > >> versions but only has the 1904 on its website.
                > >> Someday someone may have a good printing done of the the 1908
                > >> version
                > > and
                > >> maybe even some done of some of the original prints of the OR
                > >> maps but
                > > my
                > >> guess is neither is likely to happen unless CWPT or some
                > >> wealthy CW
                > > fan
                > >> ponies up the required funds since neither will be best
                > >> sellers.
                > >> Larry
                > >>
                > >>
                > >
                > >>
                > >>
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
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