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Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CC Map Question

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  • T.R.Livesey
    Larry, I have never had access to a 1908 version to compare. My guess is that the differences between the 2 are minor. A hint of possible changes can be
    Message 1 of 24 , May 24, 2009
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      Larry,

      I have never had access to a 1908 version to compare. My guess is that the
      differences between the 2 are minor. A hint of possible changes can be extracted
      from 1906 correspondence from Carman reprinted in the commemorative volume of the
      Pennsylvania Reserves (pp 95-8). There is a dispute between the Antietam
      Battlefield Commission of Pennsylvania and Carman about the proposed placement of
      the monuments for the 8th, 7th, 4th, and 3rd PR: they want the order to be 8th
      7th 4th and 3rd, whereas Carman's map shows 8th 3rd 4th 7th. After making his
      case, Carman laments : ”It is unfortunate that this matter was not discussed
      earlier. My atlas has been published two years, and a copy sent to each
      regimental organization with the request that any apparent errors might be
      reported, but not a criticism has been made of any position of the First Corps,
      and but one or two trifling ones in other corps.” I don't know if the 1908
      edition was altered to reflect the commission's version. The monuments were
      placed as per Carman's recommendation. Whatever the case, as late as 1906, Carman
      was unaware of 'non-trifling' discrepancies of the 1904 version.

      BTW, the fold-out map that accompanies the PR volume is a real gem: a beautiful
      depiction of the battlefield at the turn of the century (before the various
      bypasses were built) in color and wonderful topographical detail (20 ft interval
      contour lines). One of the nicest maps out there.

      T.R. Livesey
      tlivesey@...

      On Sun 05/24/09 12:51 PM , "eighth_conn_inf" eighth_conn_inf@... sent:
      > TR,
      >
      > I looked at some of your flybys and they are interesting; thanks for
      > sharing them. I will be instructive to see what Stephen comes up with for
      > Virtual Antietam.
      > I've never heard that anyone owns the 1908 CC version let alone listing the
      > differences between the two. Maybe Tom Clemens who is writing about Carman
      > may have that version copied or at least talk about the differences. I
      > recall someone--Jake Pierro--mentioned that the LOC has both 1904 and 1908
      > versions but only has the 1904 on its website.
      > Someday someone may have a good printing done of the the 1908 version and
      > maybe even some done of some of the original prints of the OR maps but my
      > guess is neither is likely to happen unless CWPT or some wealthy CW fan
      > ponies up the required funds since neither will be best sellers.
      > Larry
      >
      >

      >
      >
    • Thomas Clemens
      Somewhere in the papers from Carman I found a listing of the changes. Will see if I can find it for you. We have 8 x10 color negatives of the 1908 maps.
      Message 2 of 24 , May 24, 2009
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        Somewhere in the papers from Carman I found a listing of the changes.
        Will see if I can find it for you. We have 8 x10 color negatives of the
        1908 maps. Maybe I should look into printing them poster-size?

        Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
        Professor of History
        Hagerstown Community College


        >>> T.R.Livesey <tlivesey@...> 05/24/09 3:08 PM >>>
        Larry,

        I have never had access to a 1908 version to compare. My guess is that
        the
        differences between the 2 are minor. A hint of possible changes can be
        extracted
        from 1906 correspondence from Carman reprinted in the commemorative
        volume of the
        Pennsylvania Reserves (pp 95-8). There is a dispute between the Antietam
        Battlefield Commission of Pennsylvania and Carman about the proposed
        placement of
        the monuments for the 8th, 7th, 4th, and 3rd PR: they want the order to
        be 8th
        7th 4th and 3rd, whereas Carman's map shows 8th 3rd 4th 7th. After
        making his
        case, Carman laments : ”It is unfortunate that this matter was not
        discussed
        earlier. My atlas has been published two years, and a copy sent to each
        regimental organization with the request that any apparent errors might
        be
        reported, but not a criticism has been made of any position of the First
        Corps,
        and but one or two trifling ones in other corps.” I don't know if the
        1908
        edition was altered to reflect the commission's version. The monuments
        were
        placed as per Carman's recommendation. Whatever the case, as late as
        1906, Carman
        was unaware of 'non-trifling' discrepancies of the 1904 version.

        BTW, the fold-out map that accompanies the PR volume is a real gem: a
        beautiful
        depiction of the battlefield at the turn of the century (before the
        various
        bypasses were built) in color and wonderful topographical detail (20 ft
        interval
        contour lines). One of the nicest maps out there.

        T.R. Livesey
        tlivesey@...

        On Sun 05/24/09 12:51 PM , "eighth_conn_inf" eighth_conn_inf@...
        sent:
        > TR,
        >
        > I looked at some of your flybys and they are interesting; thanks for
        > sharing them. I will be instructive to see what Stephen comes up with
        for
        > Virtual Antietam.
        > I've never heard that anyone owns the 1908 CC version let alone
        listing the
        > differences between the two. Maybe Tom Clemens who is writing about
        Carman
        > may have that version copied or at least talk about the differences. I
        > recall someone--Jake Pierro--mentioned that the LOC has both 1904 and
        1908
        > versions but only has the 1904 on its website.
        > Someday someone may have a good printing done of the the 1908 version
        and
        > maybe even some done of some of the original prints of the OR maps but
        my
        > guess is neither is likely to happen unless CWPT or some wealthy CW
        fan
        > ponies up the required funds since neither will be best sellers.
        > Larry
        >
        >

        >
        >
      • T.R.Livesey
        Tom, I d be interested in the list of changes. T.R. Livesey tlivesey@westwoodgalleries.com
        Message 3 of 24 , May 24, 2009
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          Tom,

          I'd be interested in the list of changes.

          T.R. Livesey
          tlivesey@...



          On Sun 05/24/09 5:11 PM , "Thomas Clemens" clemenst@... sent:
          > Somewhere in the papers from Carman I found a listing of the changes.
          > Will see if I can find it for you. We have 8 x10 color negatives of
          > the1908 maps. Maybe I should look into printing them poster-size?
          >
          > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
          > Professor of History
          > Hagerstown Community College
          >
          >
          > >>> T.R.Livesey 05/24/09 3:08 PM
          > >>>Larry,
          >
          > I have never had access to a 1908 version to compare. My guess is that
          > the
          > differences between the 2 are minor. A hint of possible changes can be
          > extracted
          > from 1906 correspondence from Carman reprinted in the commemorative
          > volume of the
          > Pennsylvania Reserves (pp 95-8). There is a dispute between the
          > AntietamBattlefield Commission of Pennsylvania and Carman about the proposed
          > placement of
          > the monuments for the 8th, 7th, 4th, and 3rd PR: they want the order to
          > be 8th
          > 7th 4th and 3rd, whereas Carman's map shows 8th 3rd 4th 7th. After
          > making his
          > case, Carman laments : ”It is unfortunate that this matter was
          > notdiscussed
          > earlier. My atlas has been published two years, and a copy sent to each
          > regimental organization with the request that any apparent errors might
          > be
          > reported, but not a criticism has been made of any position of the
          > FirstCorps,
          > and but one or two trifling ones in other corps.” I don't know if
          > the1908
          > edition was altered to reflect the commission's version. The monuments
          > were
          > placed as per Carman's recommendation. Whatever the case, as late as
          > 1906, Carman
          > was unaware of 'non-trifling' discrepancies of the 1904 version.
          >
          > BTW, the fold-out map that accompanies the PR volume is a real gem: a
          > beautiful
          > depiction of the battlefield at the turn of the century (before the
          > various
          > bypasses were built) in color and wonderful topographical detail (20 ft
          > interval
          > contour lines). One of the nicest maps out there.
          >
          > T.R. Livesey
          > tlivesey@...

          >
        • eighth_conn_inf
          Tom, I also am interested in the changes as well as a set of the 1908 maps. The best for them would be full size on sturdy, laminated paper, obviously clearly
          Message 4 of 24 , May 24, 2009
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            Tom,

            I also am interested in the changes as well as a set of the 1908 maps. The best for them would be full size on sturdy, laminated paper, obviously clearly printed in non fading ink as discussed below.

            If you think this is possible, you could PM me with an estimated cost just in case I don't win the lottery.

            TR, it would be interesting to see the 3rd PR book's map.

            Larry

            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, T.R.Livesey <tlivesey@...> wrote:
            >
            > Tom,
            >
            > I'd be interested in the list of changes.
            >
            > T.R. Livesey
            > tlivesey@...
            >
            >
            >
            > On Sun 05/24/09 5:11 PM , "Thomas Clemens" clemenst@... sent:
            > > Somewhere in the papers from Carman I found a listing of the changes.
            > > Will see if I can find it for you. We have 8 x10 color negatives of
            > > the1908 maps. Maybe I should look into printing them poster-size?
            > >
            > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
            > > Professor of History
            > > Hagerstown Community College
            > >
            > >
            > > >>> T.R.Livesey 05/24/09 3:08 PM
            > > >>>Larry,
            > >
            > > I have never had access to a 1908 version to compare. My guess is that
            > > the
            > > differences between the 2 are minor. A hint of possible changes can be
            > > extracted
            > > from 1906 correspondence from Carman reprinted in the commemorative
            > > volume of the
            > > Pennsylvania Reserves (pp 95-8). There is a dispute between the
            > > AntietamBattlefield Commission of Pennsylvania and Carman about the proposed
            > > placement of
            > > the monuments for the 8th, 7th, 4th, and 3rd PR: they want the order to
            > > be 8th
            > > 7th 4th and 3rd, whereas Carman's map shows 8th 3rd 4th 7th. After
            > > making his
            > > case, Carman laments : ”It is unfortunate that this matter was
            > > notdiscussed
            > > earlier. My atlas has been published two years, and a copy sent to each
            > > regimental organization with the request that any apparent errors might
            > > be
            > > reported, but not a criticism has been made of any position of the
            > > FirstCorps,
            > > and but one or two trifling ones in other corps.” I don't know if
            > > the1908
            > > edition was altered to reflect the commission's version. The monuments
            > > were
            > > placed as per Carman's recommendation. Whatever the case, as late as
            > > 1906, Carman
            > > was unaware of 'non-trifling' discrepancies of the 1904 version.
            > >
            > > BTW, the fold-out map that accompanies the PR volume is a real gem: a
            > > beautiful
            > > depiction of the battlefield at the turn of the century (before the
            > > various
            > > bypasses were built) in color and wonderful topographical detail (20 ft
            > > interval
            > > contour lines). One of the nicest maps out there.
            > >
            > > T.R. Livesey
            > > tlivesey@...
            >
            > >
            >
          • T.R.Livesey
            http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=125511040&searchurl=sts%3Dt%26tn%3Dpennsylvania%2Breserves%2Bat%2Bantietam%26x%3D0%26y%3D0 T.R. Livesey
            Message 5 of 24 , May 24, 2009
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              http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=125511040&searchurl=sts%3Dt%26tn%3Dpennsylvania%2Breserves%2Bat%2Bantietam%26x%3D0%26y%3D0

              T.R. Livesey
              tlivesey@...

              On Sun 05/24/09 9:09 PM , "eighth_conn_inf" eighth_conn_inf@... sent:

              > TR, it would be interesting to see the 3rd PR book's map.
              >
              > Larry
              >
              > --- In
              > TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, T.R.Livesey
              > wrote:>
            • Thomas Clemens
              OK, but it won t be anytime soon. I am rushing to finish some other stuff and go out of town for a week. Thomas G. Clemens D.A. Professor of History
              Message 6 of 24 , May 25, 2009
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                OK, but it won't be anytime soon. I am rushing to finish some other
                stuff and go out of town for a week.

                Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                Professor of History
                Hagerstown Community College


                >>> "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...> 05/24/09 10:09 PM >>>
                Tom,

                I also am interested in the changes as well as a set of the 1908 maps.
                The best for them would be full size on sturdy, laminated paper,
                obviously clearly printed in non fading ink as discussed below.

                If you think this is possible, you could PM me with an estimated cost
                just in case I don't win the lottery.

                TR, it would be interesting to see the 3rd PR book's map.

                Larry

                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, T.R.Livesey <tlivesey@...> wrote:
                >
                > Tom,
                >
                > I'd be interested in the list of changes.
                >
                > T.R. Livesey
                > tlivesey@...
                >
                >
                >
                > On Sun 05/24/09 5:11 PM , "Thomas Clemens" clemenst@... sent:
                > > Somewhere in the papers from Carman I found a listing of the
                changes.
                > > Will see if I can find it for you. We have 8 x10 color negatives of
                > > the1908 maps. Maybe I should look into printing them poster-size?
                > >
                > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                > > Professor of History
                > > Hagerstown Community College
                > >
                > >
                > > >>> T.R.Livesey 05/24/09 3:08 PM
                > > >>>Larry,
                > >
                > > I have never had access to a 1908 version to compare. My guess is
                that
                > > the
                > > differences between the 2 are minor. A hint of possible changes can
                be
                > > extracted
                > > from 1906 correspondence from Carman reprinted in the commemorative
                > > volume of the
                > > Pennsylvania Reserves (pp 95-8). There is a dispute between the
                > > AntietamBattlefield Commission of Pennsylvania and Carman about the
                proposed
                > > placement of
                > > the monuments for the 8th, 7th, 4th, and 3rd PR: they want the order
                to
                > > be 8th
                > > 7th 4th and 3rd, whereas Carman's map shows 8th 3rd 4th 7th. After
                > > making his
                > > case, Carman laments : †It is unfortunate that this matter was
                > > notdiscussed
                > > earlier. My atlas has been published two years, and a copy sent to
                each
                > > regimental organization with the request that any apparent errors
                might
                > > be
                > > reported, but not a criticism has been made of any position of the
                > > FirstCorps,
                > > and but one or two trifling ones in other corps.†I don't know if
                > > the1908
                > > edition was altered to reflect the commission's version. The
                monuments
                > > were
                > > placed as per Carman's recommendation. Whatever the case, as late as
                > > 1906, Carman
                > > was unaware of 'non-trifling' discrepancies of the 1904 version.
                > >
                > > BTW, the fold-out map that accompanies the PR volume is a real gem:
                a
                > > beautiful
                > > depiction of the battlefield at the turn of the century (before the
                > > various
                > > bypasses were built) in color and wonderful topographical detail (20
                ft
                > > interval
                > > contour lines). One of the nicest maps out there.
                > >
                > > T.R. Livesey
                > > tlivesey@...
                >
                > >
                >
              • Larry Freiheit
                No rush, thx Tom. ... From: Thomas Clemens Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CC Map Question To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com Date:
                Message 7 of 24 , May 25, 2009
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                  No rush, thx Tom.

                  --- On Mon, 5/25/09, Thomas Clemens <clemenst@...> wrote:


                  From: Thomas Clemens <clemenst@...>
                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CC Map Question
                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Monday, May 25, 2009, 10:07 AM








                  OK, but it won't be anytime soon. I am rushing to finish some other
                  stuff and go out of town for a week.

                  Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                  Professor of History
                  Hagerstown Community College

                  >>> "eighth_conn_ inf" <eighth_conn_ inf@yahoo. com> 05/24/09 10:09 PM >>>
                  Tom,

                  I also am interested in the changes as well as a set of the 1908 maps.
                  The best for them would be full size on sturdy, laminated paper,
                  obviously clearly printed in non fading ink as discussed below.

                  If you think this is possible, you could PM me with an estimated cost
                  just in case I don't win the lottery.

                  TR, it would be interesting to see the 3rd PR book's map.

                  Larry

                  --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, T.R.Livesey <tlivesey@.. .> wrote:
                  >
                  > Tom,
                  >
                  > I'd be interested in the list of changes.
                  >
                  > T.R. Livesey
                  > tlivesey@...
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > On Sun 05/24/09 5:11 PM , "Thomas Clemens" clemenst@... sent:
                  > > Somewhere in the papers from Carman I found a listing of the
                  changes.
                  > > Will see if I can find it for you. We have 8 x10 color negatives of
                  > > the1908 maps. Maybe I should look into printing them poster-size?
                  > >
                  > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                  > > Professor of History
                  > > Hagerstown Community College
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > >>> T.R.Livesey 05/24/09 3:08 PM
                  > > >>>Larry,
                  > >
                  > > I have never had access to a 1908 version to compare. My guess is
                  that
                  > > the
                  > > differences between the 2 are minor. A hint of possible changes can
                  be
                  > > extracted
                  > > from 1906 correspondence from Carman reprinted in the commemorative
                  > > volume of the
                  > > Pennsylvania Reserves (pp 95-8). There is a dispute between the
                  > > AntietamBattlefield Commission of Pennsylvania and Carman about the
                  proposed
                  > > placement of
                  > > the monuments for the 8th, 7th, 4th, and 3rd PR: they want the order
                  to
                  > > be 8th
                  > > 7th 4th and 3rd, whereas Carman's map shows 8th 3rd 4th 7th. After
                  > > making his
                  > > case, Carman laments : †It is unfortunate that this matter was
                  > > notdiscussed
                  > > earlier. My atlas has been published two years, and a copy sent to
                  each
                  > > regimental organization with the request that any apparent errors
                  might
                  > > be
                  > > reported, but not a criticism has been made of any position of the
                  > > FirstCorps,
                  > > and but one or two trifling ones in other corps.†I don't know if
                  > > the1908
                  > > edition was altered to reflect the commission's version. The
                  monuments
                  > > were
                  > > placed as per Carman's recommendation. Whatever the case, as late as
                  > > 1906, Carman
                  > > was unaware of 'non-trifling' discrepancies of the 1904 version.
                  > >
                  > > BTW, the fold-out map that accompanies the PR volume is a real gem:
                  a
                  > > beautiful
                  > > depiction of the battlefield at the turn of the century (before the
                  > > various
                  > > bypasses were built) in color and wonderful topographical detail (20
                  ft
                  > > interval
                  > > contour lines). One of the nicest maps out there.
                  > >
                  > > T.R. Livesey
                  > > tlivesey@...
                  >
                  > >
                  >



















                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • G E Mayers
                  Dear Tom, What would such a project cost? Would it be something SHAF could offer at a discount to members? Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian,
                  Message 8 of 24 , May 25, 2009
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                    Dear Tom,

                    What would such a project cost? Would it be something SHAF could
                    offer at a discount to members?

                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                    To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                    on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                    Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                    the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 6:11 PM
                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CC Map Question


                    > Somewhere in the papers from Carman I found a listing of the
                    > changes.
                    > Will see if I can find it for you. We have 8 x10 color
                    > negatives of the
                    > 1908 maps. Maybe I should look into printing them poster-size?
                    >
                    > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                    > Professor of History
                    > Hagerstown Community College
                    >
                    >
                    >>>> T.R.Livesey <tlivesey@...> 05/24/09 3:08
                    >>>> PM >>>
                    > Larry,
                    >
                    > I have never had access to a 1908 version to compare. My guess
                    > is that
                    > the
                    > differences between the 2 are minor. A hint of possible changes
                    > can be
                    > extracted
                    > from 1906 correspondence from Carman reprinted in the
                    > commemorative
                    > volume of the
                    > Pennsylvania Reserves (pp 95-8). There is a dispute between the
                    > Antietam
                    > Battlefield Commission of Pennsylvania and Carman about the
                    > proposed
                    > placement of
                    > the monuments for the 8th, 7th, 4th, and 3rd PR: they want the
                    > order to
                    > be 8th
                    > 7th 4th and 3rd, whereas Carman's map shows 8th 3rd 4th 7th.
                    > After
                    > making his
                    > case, Carman laments : ”It is unfortunate that this matter was
                    > not
                    > discussed
                    > earlier. My atlas has been published two years, and a copy sent
                    > to each
                    > regimental organization with the request that any apparent
                    > errors might
                    > be
                    > reported, but not a criticism has been made of any position of
                    > the First
                    > Corps,
                    > and but one or two trifling ones in other corps.” I don't know
                    > if the
                    > 1908
                    > edition was altered to reflect the commission's version. The
                    > monuments
                    > were
                    > placed as per Carman's recommendation. Whatever the case, as
                    > late as
                    > 1906, Carman
                    > was unaware of 'non-trifling' discrepancies of the 1904
                    > version.
                    >
                    > BTW, the fold-out map that accompanies the PR volume is a real
                    > gem: a
                    > beautiful
                    > depiction of the battlefield at the turn of the century (before
                    > the
                    > various
                    > bypasses were built) in color and wonderful topographical
                    > detail (20 ft
                    > interval
                    > contour lines). One of the nicest maps out there.
                    >
                    > T.R. Livesey
                    > tlivesey@...
                    >
                    > On Sun 05/24/09 12:51 PM , "eighth_conn_inf"
                    > eighth_conn_inf@...
                    > sent:
                    >> TR,
                    >>
                    >> I looked at some of your flybys and they are interesting;
                    >> thanks for
                    >> sharing them. I will be instructive to see what Stephen comes
                    >> up with
                    > for
                    >> Virtual Antietam.
                    >> I've never heard that anyone owns the 1908 CC version let
                    >> alone
                    > listing the
                    >> differences between the two. Maybe Tom Clemens who is writing
                    >> about
                    > Carman
                    >> may have that version copied or at least talk about the
                    >> differences. I
                    >> recall someone--Jake Pierro--mentioned that the LOC has both
                    >> 1904 and
                    > 1908
                    >> versions but only has the 1904 on its website.
                    >> Someday someone may have a good printing done of the the 1908
                    >> version
                    > and
                    >> maybe even some done of some of the original prints of the OR
                    >> maps but
                    > my
                    >> guess is neither is likely to happen unless CWPT or some
                    >> wealthy CW
                    > fan
                    >> ponies up the required funds since neither will be best
                    >> sellers.
                    >> Larry
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Dave
                    Gerry, I think one could compare a high-quality printing run with Morningside s printing of the Bachelder maps. They printed them years ago, and the set of
                    Message 9 of 24 , May 29, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Gerry,

                      I think one could compare a high-quality printing run with Morningside's
                      printing of the Bachelder maps. They printed them years ago, and the
                      set of 28 (37 x 27) run $250. They've been that price for many years,
                      and I think that's a very fair price. I don't have them, but I've seen
                      them, and they are the quality we would like to see in the CC maps (much
                      better than the one in the museum). If someone was willing to have them
                      printed, I would make sure that they had the money in hand from those
                      interested before starting out. My feeling is that $20-$25 for each map
                      would be a good price, but that's still a lot of money for most folks
                      and I don't believe it could be done that cheaply in any event. Maybe
                      we can turn this in as a Stimulus package request.

                      Dave McGowan

                      G E Mayers wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Dear Tom,
                      >
                      > What would such a project cost? Would it be something SHAF could
                      > offer at a discount to members?
                      >
                      > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                      >
                      > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                      > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                      > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                      > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...
                      > <mailto:clemenst%40hagerstowncc.edu>>
                      > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>>
                      > Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 6:11 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CC Map Question
                      >
                      > > Somewhere in the papers from Carman I found a listing of the
                      > > changes.
                      > > Will see if I can find it for you. We have 8 x10 color
                      > > negatives of the
                      > > 1908 maps. Maybe I should look into printing them poster-size?
                      > >
                      > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                      > > Professor of History
                      > > Hagerstown Community College
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >>>> T.R.Livesey <tlivesey@...
                      > <mailto:tlivesey%40westwoodgalleries.com>> 05/24/09 3:08
                      > >>>> PM >>>
                      > > Larry,
                      > >
                      > > I have never had access to a 1908 version to compare. My guess
                      > > is that
                      > > the
                      > > differences between the 2 are minor. A hint of possible changes
                      > > can be
                      > > extracted
                      > > from 1906 correspondence from Carman reprinted in the
                      > > commemorative
                      > > volume of the
                      > > Pennsylvania Reserves (pp 95-8). There is a dispute between the
                      > > Antietam
                      > > Battlefield Commission of Pennsylvania and Carman about the
                      > > proposed
                      > > placement of
                      > > the monuments for the 8th, 7th, 4th, and 3rd PR: they want the
                      > > order to
                      > > be 8th
                      > > 7th 4th and 3rd, whereas Carman's map shows 8th 3rd 4th 7th.
                      > > After
                      > > making his
                      > > case, Carman laments : ”It is unfortunate that this matter was
                      > > not
                      > > discussed
                      > > earlier. My atlas has been published two years, and a copy sent
                      > > to each
                      > > regimental organization with the request that any apparent
                      > > errors might
                      > > be
                      > > reported, but not a criticism has been made of any position of
                      > > the First
                      > > Corps,
                      > > and but one or two trifling ones in other corps.” I don't know
                      > > if the
                      > > 1908
                      > > edition was altered to reflect the commission's version. The
                      > > monuments
                      > > were
                      > > placed as per Carman's recommendation. Whatever the case, as
                      > > late as
                      > > 1906, Carman
                      > > was unaware of 'non-trifling' discrepancies of the 1904
                      > > version.
                      > >
                      > > BTW, the fold-out map that accompanies the PR volume is a real
                      > > gem: a
                      > > beautiful
                      > > depiction of the battlefield at the turn of the century (before
                      > > the
                      > > various
                      > > bypasses were built) in color and wonderful topographical
                      > > detail (20 ft
                      > > interval
                      > > contour lines). One of the nicest maps out there.
                      > >
                      > > T.R. Livesey
                      > > tlivesey@... <mailto:tlivesey%40westwoodgalleries.com>
                      > >
                      > > On Sun 05/24/09 12:51 PM , "eighth_conn_inf"
                      > > eighth_conn_inf@... <mailto:eighth_conn_inf%40yahoo.com>
                      > > sent:
                      > >> TR,
                      > >>
                      > >> I looked at some of your flybys and they are interesting;
                      > >> thanks for
                      > >> sharing them. I will be instructive to see what Stephen comes
                      > >> up with
                      > > for
                      > >> Virtual Antietam.
                      > >> I've never heard that anyone owns the 1908 CC version let
                      > >> alone
                      > > listing the
                      > >> differences between the two. Maybe Tom Clemens who is writing
                      > >> about
                      > > Carman
                      > >> may have that version copied or at least talk about the
                      > >> differences. I
                      > >> recall someone--Jake Pierro--mentioned that the LOC has both
                      > >> 1904 and
                      > > 1908
                      > >> versions but only has the 1904 on its website.
                      > >> Someday someone may have a good printing done of the the 1908
                      > >> version
                      > > and
                      > >> maybe even some done of some of the original prints of the OR
                      > >> maps but
                      > > my
                      > >> guess is neither is likely to happen unless CWPT or some
                      > >> wealthy CW
                      > > fan
                      > >> ponies up the required funds since neither will be best
                      > >> sellers.
                      > >> Larry
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
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