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Re: CC Map Question

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  • eighth_conn_inf
    TR, I looked at some of your flybys and they are interesting; thanks for sharing them. I will be instructive to see what Stephen comes up with for Virtual
    Message 1 of 24 , May 24, 2009
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      TR,

      I looked at some of your flybys and they are interesting; thanks for sharing them. I will be instructive to see what Stephen comes up with for Virtual Antietam.

      I've never heard that anyone owns the 1908 CC version let alone listing the differences between the two. Maybe Tom Clemens who is writing about Carman may have that version copied or at least talk about the differences. I recall someone--Jake Pierro--mentioned that the LOC has both 1904 and 1908 versions but only has the 1904 on its website.

      Someday someone may have a good printing done of the the 1908 version and maybe even some done of some of the original prints of the OR maps but my guess is neither is likely to happen unless CWPT or some wealthy CW fan ponies up the required funds since neither will be best sellers.

      Larry


      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, T.R.Livesey <tlivesey@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Larry,
      >
      > Yes, I have the 1904 edition. The printed images are very clean and crisp. If all
      > you've ever seen is the reprints of the official records atlas, the originals in
      > their proper size are truely works of art. I don't bother to laminate my maps
      > since they are just print-outs anyway.
      >
      > Back in the 90's I experimented with fly-by images, long before there was Google
      > anything. The quality was not that great and the file sizes were totally
      > impractable for the dial-up services of the time, do I didn't pursue them. I dug
      > them up and posted them if anyone is interested:
      >
      > flyby from south to north looking east at the otto farm:
      >
      > http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam/flyby/otto.mpg
      >
      > flyby from south to north over the otto farm looking west
      >
      > http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam/flyby/otto2.mpg
      >
      > flyby along the Piper Swale, first east toward the Antietam and then back west
      > toward the west woods
      >
      > http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam/flyby/piperswale2.mpg
      >
      > flyby over Turner Gap.looking northwest up the National Pike over Turner's Gap,
      > and then circling around counter-clockwise
      >
      > http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam/flyby/turnergap2.mpg
      >
      > The Piper Swale and Turner's Gap flybys are in stereo, and if you can view them
      > in stereo the Turner Gap one is particularly spectacular.
      >
      >
      > T.R. Livesey
      > tlivesey@...
      >
      > On Sat 05/ 9/09 7:27 AM , "eighth_conn_inf" eighth_conn_inf@... sent:
      > > T.R. and Dave,
      > >
      > > The large printed maps do seem to muddy some details and the colors aren't
      > > as good; they are just not as clear as the screen version. Apparently it is
      > > not so easy to get crisp printing on such a large map. I bought one of the
      > > park's laminated ones and two from the Florida printer. The Florida prints
      > > seem to have faded a little.
      > > T.R.--you have the 1904 version? Are the details as clear as they appear on
      > > the computer screen? I'm guessing that finding original copies of either
      > > the 04 or 08 maps is difficult; I've not seen any advertised anywhere.Do
      > > you laminate your smaller prints to take to the field?
      > > Contour lines as on the CC maps are a must for me, too. Now if someone
      > > would program the maps so one could "fly in" to get an overhead
      > > like you can on Google Earth and also get a street view that would be
      > > great.
      > > Larry
      > >
      > > --- In
      > > TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, T.R.Livesey
      > > wrote:>
      > > > I found my copy of the viewer that I downloaded
      > > several years ago. I couldn't find it on their website. The CC maps are
      > > great, but they are too big to be used as a whole. I have an actual
      > > original edition, and its really too big even when you open it up on a big
      > > table. You end up having to lean over it and my back and neck get sore.
      > > Much better to zoom into an area of interest and make a print out of that
      > > that is a more manageable size. They blow up really well. I have a color
      > > printer that does 11x17 and I have made very nice copies with
      > > it.>
      > > > Any map that does not have topo lines or some
      > > other means of indicating elevation is useless, unless you just want to
      > > frame it and hang it on a wall. For that reason alone the CC maps can't be
      > > beat.>
      > > > T.R. Livesey
      > > > tlivesey@
    • T.R.Livesey
      Larry, I have never had access to a 1908 version to compare. My guess is that the differences between the 2 are minor. A hint of possible changes can be
      Message 2 of 24 , May 24, 2009
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        Larry,

        I have never had access to a 1908 version to compare. My guess is that the
        differences between the 2 are minor. A hint of possible changes can be extracted
        from 1906 correspondence from Carman reprinted in the commemorative volume of the
        Pennsylvania Reserves (pp 95-8). There is a dispute between the Antietam
        Battlefield Commission of Pennsylvania and Carman about the proposed placement of
        the monuments for the 8th, 7th, 4th, and 3rd PR: they want the order to be 8th
        7th 4th and 3rd, whereas Carman's map shows 8th 3rd 4th 7th. After making his
        case, Carman laments : ”It is unfortunate that this matter was not discussed
        earlier. My atlas has been published two years, and a copy sent to each
        regimental organization with the request that any apparent errors might be
        reported, but not a criticism has been made of any position of the First Corps,
        and but one or two trifling ones in other corps.” I don't know if the 1908
        edition was altered to reflect the commission's version. The monuments were
        placed as per Carman's recommendation. Whatever the case, as late as 1906, Carman
        was unaware of 'non-trifling' discrepancies of the 1904 version.

        BTW, the fold-out map that accompanies the PR volume is a real gem: a beautiful
        depiction of the battlefield at the turn of the century (before the various
        bypasses were built) in color and wonderful topographical detail (20 ft interval
        contour lines). One of the nicest maps out there.

        T.R. Livesey
        tlivesey@...

        On Sun 05/24/09 12:51 PM , "eighth_conn_inf" eighth_conn_inf@... sent:
        > TR,
        >
        > I looked at some of your flybys and they are interesting; thanks for
        > sharing them. I will be instructive to see what Stephen comes up with for
        > Virtual Antietam.
        > I've never heard that anyone owns the 1908 CC version let alone listing the
        > differences between the two. Maybe Tom Clemens who is writing about Carman
        > may have that version copied or at least talk about the differences. I
        > recall someone--Jake Pierro--mentioned that the LOC has both 1904 and 1908
        > versions but only has the 1904 on its website.
        > Someday someone may have a good printing done of the the 1908 version and
        > maybe even some done of some of the original prints of the OR maps but my
        > guess is neither is likely to happen unless CWPT or some wealthy CW fan
        > ponies up the required funds since neither will be best sellers.
        > Larry
        >
        >

        >
        >
      • Thomas Clemens
        Somewhere in the papers from Carman I found a listing of the changes. Will see if I can find it for you. We have 8 x10 color negatives of the 1908 maps.
        Message 3 of 24 , May 24, 2009
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          Somewhere in the papers from Carman I found a listing of the changes.
          Will see if I can find it for you. We have 8 x10 color negatives of the
          1908 maps. Maybe I should look into printing them poster-size?

          Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
          Professor of History
          Hagerstown Community College


          >>> T.R.Livesey <tlivesey@...> 05/24/09 3:08 PM >>>
          Larry,

          I have never had access to a 1908 version to compare. My guess is that
          the
          differences between the 2 are minor. A hint of possible changes can be
          extracted
          from 1906 correspondence from Carman reprinted in the commemorative
          volume of the
          Pennsylvania Reserves (pp 95-8). There is a dispute between the Antietam
          Battlefield Commission of Pennsylvania and Carman about the proposed
          placement of
          the monuments for the 8th, 7th, 4th, and 3rd PR: they want the order to
          be 8th
          7th 4th and 3rd, whereas Carman's map shows 8th 3rd 4th 7th. After
          making his
          case, Carman laments : ”It is unfortunate that this matter was not
          discussed
          earlier. My atlas has been published two years, and a copy sent to each
          regimental organization with the request that any apparent errors might
          be
          reported, but not a criticism has been made of any position of the First
          Corps,
          and but one or two trifling ones in other corps.” I don't know if the
          1908
          edition was altered to reflect the commission's version. The monuments
          were
          placed as per Carman's recommendation. Whatever the case, as late as
          1906, Carman
          was unaware of 'non-trifling' discrepancies of the 1904 version.

          BTW, the fold-out map that accompanies the PR volume is a real gem: a
          beautiful
          depiction of the battlefield at the turn of the century (before the
          various
          bypasses were built) in color and wonderful topographical detail (20 ft
          interval
          contour lines). One of the nicest maps out there.

          T.R. Livesey
          tlivesey@...

          On Sun 05/24/09 12:51 PM , "eighth_conn_inf" eighth_conn_inf@...
          sent:
          > TR,
          >
          > I looked at some of your flybys and they are interesting; thanks for
          > sharing them. I will be instructive to see what Stephen comes up with
          for
          > Virtual Antietam.
          > I've never heard that anyone owns the 1908 CC version let alone
          listing the
          > differences between the two. Maybe Tom Clemens who is writing about
          Carman
          > may have that version copied or at least talk about the differences. I
          > recall someone--Jake Pierro--mentioned that the LOC has both 1904 and
          1908
          > versions but only has the 1904 on its website.
          > Someday someone may have a good printing done of the the 1908 version
          and
          > maybe even some done of some of the original prints of the OR maps but
          my
          > guess is neither is likely to happen unless CWPT or some wealthy CW
          fan
          > ponies up the required funds since neither will be best sellers.
          > Larry
          >
          >

          >
          >
        • T.R.Livesey
          Tom, I d be interested in the list of changes. T.R. Livesey tlivesey@westwoodgalleries.com
          Message 4 of 24 , May 24, 2009
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            Tom,

            I'd be interested in the list of changes.

            T.R. Livesey
            tlivesey@...



            On Sun 05/24/09 5:11 PM , "Thomas Clemens" clemenst@... sent:
            > Somewhere in the papers from Carman I found a listing of the changes.
            > Will see if I can find it for you. We have 8 x10 color negatives of
            > the1908 maps. Maybe I should look into printing them poster-size?
            >
            > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
            > Professor of History
            > Hagerstown Community College
            >
            >
            > >>> T.R.Livesey 05/24/09 3:08 PM
            > >>>Larry,
            >
            > I have never had access to a 1908 version to compare. My guess is that
            > the
            > differences between the 2 are minor. A hint of possible changes can be
            > extracted
            > from 1906 correspondence from Carman reprinted in the commemorative
            > volume of the
            > Pennsylvania Reserves (pp 95-8). There is a dispute between the
            > AntietamBattlefield Commission of Pennsylvania and Carman about the proposed
            > placement of
            > the monuments for the 8th, 7th, 4th, and 3rd PR: they want the order to
            > be 8th
            > 7th 4th and 3rd, whereas Carman's map shows 8th 3rd 4th 7th. After
            > making his
            > case, Carman laments : ”It is unfortunate that this matter was
            > notdiscussed
            > earlier. My atlas has been published two years, and a copy sent to each
            > regimental organization with the request that any apparent errors might
            > be
            > reported, but not a criticism has been made of any position of the
            > FirstCorps,
            > and but one or two trifling ones in other corps.” I don't know if
            > the1908
            > edition was altered to reflect the commission's version. The monuments
            > were
            > placed as per Carman's recommendation. Whatever the case, as late as
            > 1906, Carman
            > was unaware of 'non-trifling' discrepancies of the 1904 version.
            >
            > BTW, the fold-out map that accompanies the PR volume is a real gem: a
            > beautiful
            > depiction of the battlefield at the turn of the century (before the
            > various
            > bypasses were built) in color and wonderful topographical detail (20 ft
            > interval
            > contour lines). One of the nicest maps out there.
            >
            > T.R. Livesey
            > tlivesey@...

            >
          • eighth_conn_inf
            Tom, I also am interested in the changes as well as a set of the 1908 maps. The best for them would be full size on sturdy, laminated paper, obviously clearly
            Message 5 of 24 , May 24, 2009
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              Tom,

              I also am interested in the changes as well as a set of the 1908 maps. The best for them would be full size on sturdy, laminated paper, obviously clearly printed in non fading ink as discussed below.

              If you think this is possible, you could PM me with an estimated cost just in case I don't win the lottery.

              TR, it would be interesting to see the 3rd PR book's map.

              Larry

              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, T.R.Livesey <tlivesey@...> wrote:
              >
              > Tom,
              >
              > I'd be interested in the list of changes.
              >
              > T.R. Livesey
              > tlivesey@...
              >
              >
              >
              > On Sun 05/24/09 5:11 PM , "Thomas Clemens" clemenst@... sent:
              > > Somewhere in the papers from Carman I found a listing of the changes.
              > > Will see if I can find it for you. We have 8 x10 color negatives of
              > > the1908 maps. Maybe I should look into printing them poster-size?
              > >
              > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
              > > Professor of History
              > > Hagerstown Community College
              > >
              > >
              > > >>> T.R.Livesey 05/24/09 3:08 PM
              > > >>>Larry,
              > >
              > > I have never had access to a 1908 version to compare. My guess is that
              > > the
              > > differences between the 2 are minor. A hint of possible changes can be
              > > extracted
              > > from 1906 correspondence from Carman reprinted in the commemorative
              > > volume of the
              > > Pennsylvania Reserves (pp 95-8). There is a dispute between the
              > > AntietamBattlefield Commission of Pennsylvania and Carman about the proposed
              > > placement of
              > > the monuments for the 8th, 7th, 4th, and 3rd PR: they want the order to
              > > be 8th
              > > 7th 4th and 3rd, whereas Carman's map shows 8th 3rd 4th 7th. After
              > > making his
              > > case, Carman laments : ”It is unfortunate that this matter was
              > > notdiscussed
              > > earlier. My atlas has been published two years, and a copy sent to each
              > > regimental organization with the request that any apparent errors might
              > > be
              > > reported, but not a criticism has been made of any position of the
              > > FirstCorps,
              > > and but one or two trifling ones in other corps.” I don't know if
              > > the1908
              > > edition was altered to reflect the commission's version. The monuments
              > > were
              > > placed as per Carman's recommendation. Whatever the case, as late as
              > > 1906, Carman
              > > was unaware of 'non-trifling' discrepancies of the 1904 version.
              > >
              > > BTW, the fold-out map that accompanies the PR volume is a real gem: a
              > > beautiful
              > > depiction of the battlefield at the turn of the century (before the
              > > various
              > > bypasses were built) in color and wonderful topographical detail (20 ft
              > > interval
              > > contour lines). One of the nicest maps out there.
              > >
              > > T.R. Livesey
              > > tlivesey@...
              >
              > >
              >
            • T.R.Livesey
              http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=125511040&searchurl=sts%3Dt%26tn%3Dpennsylvania%2Breserves%2Bat%2Bantietam%26x%3D0%26y%3D0 T.R. Livesey
              Message 6 of 24 , May 24, 2009
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                http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=125511040&searchurl=sts%3Dt%26tn%3Dpennsylvania%2Breserves%2Bat%2Bantietam%26x%3D0%26y%3D0

                T.R. Livesey
                tlivesey@...

                On Sun 05/24/09 9:09 PM , "eighth_conn_inf" eighth_conn_inf@... sent:

                > TR, it would be interesting to see the 3rd PR book's map.
                >
                > Larry
                >
                > --- In
                > TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, T.R.Livesey
                > wrote:>
              • Thomas Clemens
                OK, but it won t be anytime soon. I am rushing to finish some other stuff and go out of town for a week. Thomas G. Clemens D.A. Professor of History
                Message 7 of 24 , May 25, 2009
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                  OK, but it won't be anytime soon. I am rushing to finish some other
                  stuff and go out of town for a week.

                  Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                  Professor of History
                  Hagerstown Community College


                  >>> "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...> 05/24/09 10:09 PM >>>
                  Tom,

                  I also am interested in the changes as well as a set of the 1908 maps.
                  The best for them would be full size on sturdy, laminated paper,
                  obviously clearly printed in non fading ink as discussed below.

                  If you think this is possible, you could PM me with an estimated cost
                  just in case I don't win the lottery.

                  TR, it would be interesting to see the 3rd PR book's map.

                  Larry

                  --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, T.R.Livesey <tlivesey@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Tom,
                  >
                  > I'd be interested in the list of changes.
                  >
                  > T.R. Livesey
                  > tlivesey@...
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > On Sun 05/24/09 5:11 PM , "Thomas Clemens" clemenst@... sent:
                  > > Somewhere in the papers from Carman I found a listing of the
                  changes.
                  > > Will see if I can find it for you. We have 8 x10 color negatives of
                  > > the1908 maps. Maybe I should look into printing them poster-size?
                  > >
                  > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                  > > Professor of History
                  > > Hagerstown Community College
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > >>> T.R.Livesey 05/24/09 3:08 PM
                  > > >>>Larry,
                  > >
                  > > I have never had access to a 1908 version to compare. My guess is
                  that
                  > > the
                  > > differences between the 2 are minor. A hint of possible changes can
                  be
                  > > extracted
                  > > from 1906 correspondence from Carman reprinted in the commemorative
                  > > volume of the
                  > > Pennsylvania Reserves (pp 95-8). There is a dispute between the
                  > > AntietamBattlefield Commission of Pennsylvania and Carman about the
                  proposed
                  > > placement of
                  > > the monuments for the 8th, 7th, 4th, and 3rd PR: they want the order
                  to
                  > > be 8th
                  > > 7th 4th and 3rd, whereas Carman's map shows 8th 3rd 4th 7th. After
                  > > making his
                  > > case, Carman laments : †It is unfortunate that this matter was
                  > > notdiscussed
                  > > earlier. My atlas has been published two years, and a copy sent to
                  each
                  > > regimental organization with the request that any apparent errors
                  might
                  > > be
                  > > reported, but not a criticism has been made of any position of the
                  > > FirstCorps,
                  > > and but one or two trifling ones in other corps.†I don't know if
                  > > the1908
                  > > edition was altered to reflect the commission's version. The
                  monuments
                  > > were
                  > > placed as per Carman's recommendation. Whatever the case, as late as
                  > > 1906, Carman
                  > > was unaware of 'non-trifling' discrepancies of the 1904 version.
                  > >
                  > > BTW, the fold-out map that accompanies the PR volume is a real gem:
                  a
                  > > beautiful
                  > > depiction of the battlefield at the turn of the century (before the
                  > > various
                  > > bypasses were built) in color and wonderful topographical detail (20
                  ft
                  > > interval
                  > > contour lines). One of the nicest maps out there.
                  > >
                  > > T.R. Livesey
                  > > tlivesey@...
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                • Larry Freiheit
                  No rush, thx Tom. ... From: Thomas Clemens Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CC Map Question To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com Date:
                  Message 8 of 24 , May 25, 2009
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                    No rush, thx Tom.

                    --- On Mon, 5/25/09, Thomas Clemens <clemenst@...> wrote:


                    From: Thomas Clemens <clemenst@...>
                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CC Map Question
                    To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Monday, May 25, 2009, 10:07 AM








                    OK, but it won't be anytime soon. I am rushing to finish some other
                    stuff and go out of town for a week.

                    Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                    Professor of History
                    Hagerstown Community College

                    >>> "eighth_conn_ inf" <eighth_conn_ inf@yahoo. com> 05/24/09 10:09 PM >>>
                    Tom,

                    I also am interested in the changes as well as a set of the 1908 maps.
                    The best for them would be full size on sturdy, laminated paper,
                    obviously clearly printed in non fading ink as discussed below.

                    If you think this is possible, you could PM me with an estimated cost
                    just in case I don't win the lottery.

                    TR, it would be interesting to see the 3rd PR book's map.

                    Larry

                    --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, T.R.Livesey <tlivesey@.. .> wrote:
                    >
                    > Tom,
                    >
                    > I'd be interested in the list of changes.
                    >
                    > T.R. Livesey
                    > tlivesey@...
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On Sun 05/24/09 5:11 PM , "Thomas Clemens" clemenst@... sent:
                    > > Somewhere in the papers from Carman I found a listing of the
                    changes.
                    > > Will see if I can find it for you. We have 8 x10 color negatives of
                    > > the1908 maps. Maybe I should look into printing them poster-size?
                    > >
                    > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                    > > Professor of History
                    > > Hagerstown Community College
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > >>> T.R.Livesey 05/24/09 3:08 PM
                    > > >>>Larry,
                    > >
                    > > I have never had access to a 1908 version to compare. My guess is
                    that
                    > > the
                    > > differences between the 2 are minor. A hint of possible changes can
                    be
                    > > extracted
                    > > from 1906 correspondence from Carman reprinted in the commemorative
                    > > volume of the
                    > > Pennsylvania Reserves (pp 95-8). There is a dispute between the
                    > > AntietamBattlefield Commission of Pennsylvania and Carman about the
                    proposed
                    > > placement of
                    > > the monuments for the 8th, 7th, 4th, and 3rd PR: they want the order
                    to
                    > > be 8th
                    > > 7th 4th and 3rd, whereas Carman's map shows 8th 3rd 4th 7th. After
                    > > making his
                    > > case, Carman laments : †It is unfortunate that this matter was
                    > > notdiscussed
                    > > earlier. My atlas has been published two years, and a copy sent to
                    each
                    > > regimental organization with the request that any apparent errors
                    might
                    > > be
                    > > reported, but not a criticism has been made of any position of the
                    > > FirstCorps,
                    > > and but one or two trifling ones in other corps.†I don't know if
                    > > the1908
                    > > edition was altered to reflect the commission's version. The
                    monuments
                    > > were
                    > > placed as per Carman's recommendation. Whatever the case, as late as
                    > > 1906, Carman
                    > > was unaware of 'non-trifling' discrepancies of the 1904 version.
                    > >
                    > > BTW, the fold-out map that accompanies the PR volume is a real gem:
                    a
                    > > beautiful
                    > > depiction of the battlefield at the turn of the century (before the
                    > > various
                    > > bypasses were built) in color and wonderful topographical detail (20
                    ft
                    > > interval
                    > > contour lines). One of the nicest maps out there.
                    > >
                    > > T.R. Livesey
                    > > tlivesey@...
                    >
                    > >
                    >



















                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • G E Mayers
                    Dear Tom, What would such a project cost? Would it be something SHAF could offer at a discount to members? Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian,
                    Message 9 of 24 , May 25, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Dear Tom,

                      What would such a project cost? Would it be something SHAF could
                      offer at a discount to members?

                      Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      G E "Gerry" Mayers

                      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                      on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                      Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                      the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
                      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 6:11 PM
                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CC Map Question


                      > Somewhere in the papers from Carman I found a listing of the
                      > changes.
                      > Will see if I can find it for you. We have 8 x10 color
                      > negatives of the
                      > 1908 maps. Maybe I should look into printing them poster-size?
                      >
                      > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                      > Professor of History
                      > Hagerstown Community College
                      >
                      >
                      >>>> T.R.Livesey <tlivesey@...> 05/24/09 3:08
                      >>>> PM >>>
                      > Larry,
                      >
                      > I have never had access to a 1908 version to compare. My guess
                      > is that
                      > the
                      > differences between the 2 are minor. A hint of possible changes
                      > can be
                      > extracted
                      > from 1906 correspondence from Carman reprinted in the
                      > commemorative
                      > volume of the
                      > Pennsylvania Reserves (pp 95-8). There is a dispute between the
                      > Antietam
                      > Battlefield Commission of Pennsylvania and Carman about the
                      > proposed
                      > placement of
                      > the monuments for the 8th, 7th, 4th, and 3rd PR: they want the
                      > order to
                      > be 8th
                      > 7th 4th and 3rd, whereas Carman's map shows 8th 3rd 4th 7th.
                      > After
                      > making his
                      > case, Carman laments : ”It is unfortunate that this matter was
                      > not
                      > discussed
                      > earlier. My atlas has been published two years, and a copy sent
                      > to each
                      > regimental organization with the request that any apparent
                      > errors might
                      > be
                      > reported, but not a criticism has been made of any position of
                      > the First
                      > Corps,
                      > and but one or two trifling ones in other corps.” I don't know
                      > if the
                      > 1908
                      > edition was altered to reflect the commission's version. The
                      > monuments
                      > were
                      > placed as per Carman's recommendation. Whatever the case, as
                      > late as
                      > 1906, Carman
                      > was unaware of 'non-trifling' discrepancies of the 1904
                      > version.
                      >
                      > BTW, the fold-out map that accompanies the PR volume is a real
                      > gem: a
                      > beautiful
                      > depiction of the battlefield at the turn of the century (before
                      > the
                      > various
                      > bypasses were built) in color and wonderful topographical
                      > detail (20 ft
                      > interval
                      > contour lines). One of the nicest maps out there.
                      >
                      > T.R. Livesey
                      > tlivesey@...
                      >
                      > On Sun 05/24/09 12:51 PM , "eighth_conn_inf"
                      > eighth_conn_inf@...
                      > sent:
                      >> TR,
                      >>
                      >> I looked at some of your flybys and they are interesting;
                      >> thanks for
                      >> sharing them. I will be instructive to see what Stephen comes
                      >> up with
                      > for
                      >> Virtual Antietam.
                      >> I've never heard that anyone owns the 1908 CC version let
                      >> alone
                      > listing the
                      >> differences between the two. Maybe Tom Clemens who is writing
                      >> about
                      > Carman
                      >> may have that version copied or at least talk about the
                      >> differences. I
                      >> recall someone--Jake Pierro--mentioned that the LOC has both
                      >> 1904 and
                      > 1908
                      >> versions but only has the 1904 on its website.
                      >> Someday someone may have a good printing done of the the 1908
                      >> version
                      > and
                      >> maybe even some done of some of the original prints of the OR
                      >> maps but
                      > my
                      >> guess is neither is likely to happen unless CWPT or some
                      >> wealthy CW
                      > fan
                      >> ponies up the required funds since neither will be best
                      >> sellers.
                      >> Larry
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Dave
                      Gerry, I think one could compare a high-quality printing run with Morningside s printing of the Bachelder maps. They printed them years ago, and the set of
                      Message 10 of 24 , May 29, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Gerry,

                        I think one could compare a high-quality printing run with Morningside's
                        printing of the Bachelder maps. They printed them years ago, and the
                        set of 28 (37 x 27) run $250. They've been that price for many years,
                        and I think that's a very fair price. I don't have them, but I've seen
                        them, and they are the quality we would like to see in the CC maps (much
                        better than the one in the museum). If someone was willing to have them
                        printed, I would make sure that they had the money in hand from those
                        interested before starting out. My feeling is that $20-$25 for each map
                        would be a good price, but that's still a lot of money for most folks
                        and I don't believe it could be done that cheaply in any event. Maybe
                        we can turn this in as a Stimulus package request.

                        Dave McGowan

                        G E Mayers wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Dear Tom,
                        >
                        > What would such a project cost? Would it be something SHAF could
                        > offer at a discount to members?
                        >
                        > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                        > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                        >
                        > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                        > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                        > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                        > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...
                        > <mailto:clemenst%40hagerstowncc.edu>>
                        > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>>
                        > Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 6:11 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CC Map Question
                        >
                        > > Somewhere in the papers from Carman I found a listing of the
                        > > changes.
                        > > Will see if I can find it for you. We have 8 x10 color
                        > > negatives of the
                        > > 1908 maps. Maybe I should look into printing them poster-size?
                        > >
                        > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                        > > Professor of History
                        > > Hagerstown Community College
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >>>> T.R.Livesey <tlivesey@...
                        > <mailto:tlivesey%40westwoodgalleries.com>> 05/24/09 3:08
                        > >>>> PM >>>
                        > > Larry,
                        > >
                        > > I have never had access to a 1908 version to compare. My guess
                        > > is that
                        > > the
                        > > differences between the 2 are minor. A hint of possible changes
                        > > can be
                        > > extracted
                        > > from 1906 correspondence from Carman reprinted in the
                        > > commemorative
                        > > volume of the
                        > > Pennsylvania Reserves (pp 95-8). There is a dispute between the
                        > > Antietam
                        > > Battlefield Commission of Pennsylvania and Carman about the
                        > > proposed
                        > > placement of
                        > > the monuments for the 8th, 7th, 4th, and 3rd PR: they want the
                        > > order to
                        > > be 8th
                        > > 7th 4th and 3rd, whereas Carman's map shows 8th 3rd 4th 7th.
                        > > After
                        > > making his
                        > > case, Carman laments : ”It is unfortunate that this matter was
                        > > not
                        > > discussed
                        > > earlier. My atlas has been published two years, and a copy sent
                        > > to each
                        > > regimental organization with the request that any apparent
                        > > errors might
                        > > be
                        > > reported, but not a criticism has been made of any position of
                        > > the First
                        > > Corps,
                        > > and but one or two trifling ones in other corps.” I don't know
                        > > if the
                        > > 1908
                        > > edition was altered to reflect the commission's version. The
                        > > monuments
                        > > were
                        > > placed as per Carman's recommendation. Whatever the case, as
                        > > late as
                        > > 1906, Carman
                        > > was unaware of 'non-trifling' discrepancies of the 1904
                        > > version.
                        > >
                        > > BTW, the fold-out map that accompanies the PR volume is a real
                        > > gem: a
                        > > beautiful
                        > > depiction of the battlefield at the turn of the century (before
                        > > the
                        > > various
                        > > bypasses were built) in color and wonderful topographical
                        > > detail (20 ft
                        > > interval
                        > > contour lines). One of the nicest maps out there.
                        > >
                        > > T.R. Livesey
                        > > tlivesey@... <mailto:tlivesey%40westwoodgalleries.com>
                        > >
                        > > On Sun 05/24/09 12:51 PM , "eighth_conn_inf"
                        > > eighth_conn_inf@... <mailto:eighth_conn_inf%40yahoo.com>
                        > > sent:
                        > >> TR,
                        > >>
                        > >> I looked at some of your flybys and they are interesting;
                        > >> thanks for
                        > >> sharing them. I will be instructive to see what Stephen comes
                        > >> up with
                        > > for
                        > >> Virtual Antietam.
                        > >> I've never heard that anyone owns the 1908 CC version let
                        > >> alone
                        > > listing the
                        > >> differences between the two. Maybe Tom Clemens who is writing
                        > >> about
                        > > Carman
                        > >> may have that version copied or at least talk about the
                        > >> differences. I
                        > >> recall someone--Jake Pierro--mentioned that the LOC has both
                        > >> 1904 and
                        > > 1908
                        > >> versions but only has the 1904 on its website.
                        > >> Someday someone may have a good printing done of the the 1908
                        > >> version
                        > > and
                        > >> maybe even some done of some of the original prints of the OR
                        > >> maps but
                        > > my
                        > >> guess is neither is likely to happen unless CWPT or some
                        > >> wealthy CW
                        > > fan
                        > >> ponies up the required funds since neither will be best
                        > >> sellers.
                        > >> Larry
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
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