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Re: re Moxley Sorrel and September 16th (Night)

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  • eighth_conn_inf
    Teej, I see only Sorrel mentioning this--do you have other sources mentioning raingear? Lord in his CW Collector s Encyclopedia vol. 1 describes a couple of
    Message 1 of 31 , Apr 4, 2009
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      Teej,

      I see only Sorrel mentioning this--do you have other sources mentioning raingear?

      Lord in his "CW Collector's Encyclopedia" vol. 1 describes a couple of possibilities in the US clothing part but nothing in the CS section. (Maybe Lee had some clothing left over from his service in the old army or had his own custom made although that seems out of character for him.) This is under enlisted men's overcoat: Cavalry: A gutta-percha talma, or cloak extending to the knee, with long sleeves (#1569 of the revised 1861 US Army regs). Talma: A talma was a long cape or cloak worn by both men and women. The term as used in the CW applied to the overcoat as worn by mounted men or to a military cloak in general.

      Canvas overalls: (#1572)For Engineer Soldiers: of white cotton; one garment to cover the whole of the body below the waist, the breast, the shoulder, and the arms; sleeves loose, to allow free play of the arms, with narrow wristband buttoning with one button; overalls to fasten at the neck behind with two buttons, and at the waist behind with buckle and tongue. I see nothing about raingear.

      1861 US clothing regs:

      http://members.tripod.com/howardlanham/unireg.htm

      and

      http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=moa;idno=AGY4285

      and

      http://www.usregulars.com/genorder6.html

      I don't have the official CS 1861/2 uniform regs but reading the Nov. 1862 CS regs I see nothing about raingear in the clothing sections.

      http://openlibrary.org/details/regulationsforar00confrich

      If anyone sees anything about raingear in any of the regs or otherwise pls give us the cite and the verbiage. I have to go with the gutta percha talma or the canvas overalls. Maybe Lee had a custom made outfit like the canvas overalls covered in gutta percha?

      Thank you,

      Larry




      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Teej Smith" <teej@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Gerry Mayers wrote:
      >
      >
      > Larry;
      >
      > The edition of Sorrel's Memoir I have is the Bison Press edition
      > published by University of Nebraska Press. It does NOT
      > specifically state West Woods.
      >
      > I have the 1995 Broadfoot edition and there's no mention of the West Woods by Sorrel in it either.
      >
      > Changing the subject just a tad, Sorrel described Lee's accident following Second Manassas on pages 96 & 97. In his description he wrote that because of the rain, Lee was wearing a "rubber poncho and over-alls." I'm assuming the "over-alls" were some sort of rain gear but were they standard issue for officers? Thanks.
      >
      > Regards,
      > Teej
      >
    • eighth_conn_inf
      And we can t forget the raincoat Stonewall had on the night he was shot; it is at the VMI museum and a picture is on their website. It has the two bullet holes
      Message 31 of 31 , Apr 10, 2009
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        And we can't forget the raincoat Stonewall had on the night he was shot; it is at the VMI museum and a picture is on their website. It has the two bullet holes in the left sleeve.

        http://www4.vmi.edu/museum/Jackson.html

        Larry

        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Dave <gewehr@...> wrote:
        >
        > For what it's worth, even though it was very early in the war, when CSA
        > Gen Felix Zollicoffer was killed in the battle of Mill Springs in KY on
        > Jan 19, 1862, he was wearing either a "white rubber" or "light drab
        > overcoat buttoned to the chin." Due to the rain and hanging smoke, he
        > managed to ride right through the Federal lines unmolested and was only
        > shot when he spoke to a US officer on his way back out. One of the
        > accounts said that a US Lt. Col was wearing a similar coat, so nobody
        > thought anything about it.
        >
        > Dave McGowan
        >
        > Thomas Clemens wrote:
        > >
        > > To parse terms with you for a moment, officers purchase all of their
        > > own clothing and equipment and although guidelines are published, a
        > > certain lattitude is in what they wear and use. Lee's talma and
        > > overalls were likely rubberized and privately purchased. Jackson was
        > > wearing a rubberized coat when he was shot.
        > >
        > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
        > > Professor of History
        > > Hagerstown Community College
        > >
        > > >>> "Teej Smith" <teej@... <mailto:teej%40nc.rr.com>> 04/04/09
        > > 1:01 PM >>>
        > >
        > > Larry wrote:
        > >
        > > Teej,
        > >
        > > I see only Sorrel mentioning this--do you have other sources
        > > mentioning raingear?
        > >
        > > Sorry, no I don't. In fact the only other place I've "over-alls"
        > > mentioned was in connection with a Union soldier at Ball's Bluff.
        > > Sorrel wrote, "It had rained and he (Lee) was wearing a rubber poncho
        > > and over-alls, his body and legs being thus well protected." I suppose
        > > they could be the canvas wear you described in your message but that
        > > wouldn't be much protection from the rain. But perhaps from the mud?
        > > Whatever they were, they must have been loose fitting because later
        > > Sorrel wrote that while reaching for his bridle, Lee "tripped in his
        > > over-alls and fell forward, not prone, but catching on his hands."
        > >
        > > Sorrel then went on to describe the nature of Lee's injuries and to
        > > note word of his being hurt reached the Northern newspapers which went
        > > into great detail as to the nature of his injury. Their report was Lee
        > > had been seriously wounded and even went so far as to describe how Lee
        > > received his wound. Would like to see that newspaper report. Sorrel
        > > confirmed Lee was able to ride a little by the time of Antietam.
        > > However, I have seen a letter written by Lee in April 1863 in which he
        > > said he was still having problems with one of his hands.
        > >
        > > Regards,
        > > Teej
        > >
        > >
        > > .
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        >
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